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Think I see why broken spearpoint got nerfed. At its original strength plus cursed blade, well. Hades might as well give up that run, because they aren't winning; pretty much regardless of your boons. Of course, there's the fact this was one daedalus upgrade for the sword, neither of which a player is guaranteed to get/use, while the broken spearpoint can be used by whichever build came along.
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Jan 22, 2020 14:05
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Rail with all-in Zeus attack and possibly infinite ammo is great. Poison on the main attack works well also. Lots of people say triple special plus rockets is OP, and it is, but triple special is good enough to carry you on its own. Especially if you get the Artemis special, because bombarding the ground with giant crits is incredible.
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Jan 22, 2020 14:11
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Well, Demeter is awesome, but the various nerfs are not good. I didn't find things that noticeably harder, but it was definitely enough to be annoying. Got a clear with the new spear aspect (no heat). I appreciate what they're going for, but I didn't like it. It just wasn't fun. Felt really slow and plodding. Maybe it's better with more blood in it, but I wasn't going to invest more than the starting 3 if it didn't grab me. The only reason I made it was that I leaned heavily on Demeter laser cast and picked up her cast legendary near the end. Spin charge hammer obviously helped too. Ended with Max health around 90. coolusername posted:I'm already really bad at this game and now the nerfs are going to make me worse, given I crawl my way through most runs eating and sobbing. I'm like 30 runs in and still stuck in Elysium. Good news for you. I feel like Elysium may be a bit more manageable now because they reduced the number of shield carriers a lot lot lot in my runs.
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Jan 22, 2020 14:14
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Playing the new patch, just got my first win yesterday pre-patch. Now I'm really struggling. WTF are the devs doing? As if this game needed to be harder.
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Jan 22, 2020 14:26
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Catpain Slack posted:Playing the new patch, just got my first win yesterday pre-patch. Now I'm really struggling. WTF are the devs doing? As if this game needed to be harder. Yeah, I think difficulty was in the right spot pre-patch. The game should be challenging but do-able for most players with some practice. I feel like they're going to tip past that if they keep this up. guts and bolts posted:Chiron aspected Coronacht remains entirely too powerful imo but I think that could just be me. I have yet to clear a run with the Exagryph except for a zero heat attempt that I barely scraped by; anyone have tips for this thing? I fuckin hate it. You hush your god drat mouth. Please don't give the devs any hint that there's more to nerf. Chiron is one of my last favorite aspects that they haven't hosed up yet.
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Jan 22, 2020 14:41
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guts and bolts posted:Chiron aspected Coronacht remains entirely too powerful imo but I think that could just be me. I have yet to clear a run with the Exagryph except for a zero heat attempt that I barely scraped by; anyone have tips for this thing? I fuckin hate it.
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Jan 22, 2020 14:47
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The nerf to the coin purse combined with shop price bumps is absolutely insane. Choosing the shop over say a boon path was an iffy choice even pre-patch, now I'm dodging that fucker Charon like there's no tomorrow.
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Jan 22, 2020 14:49
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Catpain Slack posted:Playing the new patch, just got my first win yesterday pre-patch. Now I'm really struggling. WTF are the devs doing? As if this game needed to be harder. 
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Jan 22, 2020 14:53
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Holy poo poo the new Cursed Sword hammer upgrade is broken. My HP barely moved from full the entire run including when I facetanked Asterius in the arena, and I didn't even have a very high DPS build
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Jan 22, 2020 14:56
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Yeah, I think I'm taking a little break right now while some of the stuff is worked out in sub patches. Or even if not, just to get over the frustration for a few days/a week before coming back. A lot of the additions are fun but the nerfs have thrown off my game enough that I went from relatively consistent, though not continuously streaked, wins to being completely shutout. I do love that they went full interior decorator, so even my failed runs have allowed me to fill the House with junk. Also I guess the official story for a lot of what's going wrong is Demeter throwing a fit that she can't find Persephone either. Jossar fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 15:03
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They're trying to hit a sweet spot where players with a lot of darkness/gem improvements/summons don't win 90+% of their runs, which imo is a good thing. It does make the beginning harder, and they should change Zag's base stats to make up for this and make the early grind less frustrating, but you're definitely supposed to fail a lot early on. Trying only to fail and start anew is what the game is all about, after all. If this isn't your cup of tea, or if you're looking for an easier experience for any reason, don't forget God Mode is a thing in the options. From what I read, it gives you bonuses that keep going higher the more you lose to help you beat the game if you're mostly interested in the story.
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Jan 22, 2020 15:05
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:Got a clear with the new spear aspect (no heat). I appreciate what they're going for, but I didn't like it. It just wasn't fun. Felt really slow and plodding. Maybe it's better with more blood in it, but I wasn't going to invest more than the starting 3 if it didn't grab me. The only reason I made it was that I leaned heavily on Demeter laser cast and picked up her cast legendary near the end. Spin charge hammer obviously helped too. Ended with Max health around 90. The thing is, each blood upgrade is huge due to how the math works out. Going from 20% HP to 25% HP is a whole 25% more hp to work with. I think fully upgraded you're at a 60% penalty, or double the HP of what the un-upgraded spear starts with. I'm not saying the design is necessarily good but the upgrades should make it feel like an entirely different weapon.
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Jan 22, 2020 15:09
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Eraflure posted:They're trying to hit a sweet spot where players with a lot of darkness/gem improvements/summons don't win 90+% of their runs, which imo is a good thing. (SNIP) I agree that's what they're doing, but I think that's a bad move. That's what the pact is for. You shouldn't have the game tuned around people like me who have 100-150 runs done. That said, I'm not going to freak out about difficulty too much for now. The game has fluctuated pretty wildly in challenge at different points. The original version of the last boss was a loving brick wall of difficulty. There's no way it will get that bad again at least. bamhand posted:The thing is, each blood upgrade is huge due to how the math works out. Going from 20% HP to 25% HP is a whole 25% more hp to work with. I think fully upgraded you're at a 60% penalty, or double the HP of what the un-upgraded spear starts with. I'm not saying the design is necessarily good but the upgrades should make it feel like an entirely different weapon. I'm sure it helps, but that's a lot of blood for something that didn't feel that fun mechanically either.
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Jan 22, 2020 15:27
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I feel like high Heat was already a big enough challenge for really good players though. Maybe they just don't want ~10 Heat to be streakable by people like me, who are bad but can game the system well enough to make up for it?
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Jan 22, 2020 16:10
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The increased boon prices are a real bummer, as well as the nerf to Support Fire and the change to Zag's Spear, which was my favorite of its aspects. Otherwise I'm enjoying the new content. Chill is great, Decay can get nuts. Demeter's cast and aid are a lot of fun. Been trying to pair up her cast with some Artemis boons but it hasn't quite happened yet. The new spear aspect is sort of fun? I'm not sure. I managed to fulfill the prophecy on my first go with it at level 3 (but died at the final boss anyway - interesting that they didn't ask us to actually win) and I can see myself giving it a few more goes. At the very least it got me to use the spin attack more which I almost never do. I'm also enjoying dying before the final boss again for a change but can definitely understand that the increased difficulty can be off-putting, particularly for new players. Hopefully they find a balance. Spoilery question about Skelly's request: if I do as he asks and slay him with the Zag sword, does he actually go away? I think that's how you get his second keepsake, right, but I don't want to send him off and miss out on some dialogue or whatever (I still have two more of his heat trials to do for instance). I'm guessing it doesn't work and he stays, though, as that would make a lot more sense. Am I right? edit: Also, Elysium is way, way better now in general. Sway Grunt fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 16:12
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Glare Seethe posted:Spoilery question about Skelly's request: if I do as he asks and slay him with the Zag sword, does he actually go away? I think that's how you get his second keepsake, right, but I don't want to send him off and miss out on some dialogue or whatever (I still have two more of his heat trials to do for instance). I'm guessing it doesn't work and he stays, though, as that would make a lot more sense. Am I right? Don't worry, you can't miss any dialogue with Skelly if you do what he asks you to do.
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Jan 22, 2020 16:20
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The problem is sort of the heat system in that the first few levels of heat - by design - do basically nothing (as players can always start with the least impactful heats). So there was kind of this initial difficulty when your character was weak, then you win, then you play dozens and dozens of runs without losing. I got bored around heat 5/6 and checked out until demeter released. Imo heat should be less granular but with better rewards, there isnt enough difficulty gradation from 1-8 heat. (They could also really go crazy and make completing a higher heat unlock the rewards from all previous heats for that weapon but i think they've intentionally chosen not to do this and I probably agree) No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 16:25
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Dias posted:Don't worry, you can't miss any dialogue with Skelly if you do what he asks you to do. Awesome, thanks.
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Jan 22, 2020 16:28
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Getting everything all at once is probably too much, but I'd definitely appreciate being able to jump up 2 or 3 heat at a time. Crawling up to 10 heat on each weapon, 1 heat at a time, has been a tad slow.
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Jan 22, 2020 16:30
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Maybe they should add bonus upgrade resource gain to some of the harder Pacts? Then again, Darkness I think gets pretty useless pretty fast, and Gems aren't that big of a carrot?
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Jan 22, 2020 17:12
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Fenn the Fool! posted:Getting everything all at once is probably too much, but I'd definitely appreciate being able to jump up 2 or 3 heat at a time. Crawling up to 10 heat on each weapon, 1 heat at a time, has been a tad slow. Dias posted:Maybe they should add bonus upgrade resource gain to some of the harder Pacts? Then again, Darkness I think gets pretty useless pretty fast, and Gems aren't that big of a carrot? There could be daily bonuses for taking specific punishments though. Would be fun enough.
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Jan 22, 2020 17:32
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Next update in 50 days is supposed to add a new weapon and a new use for darkness.
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Jan 22, 2020 17:34
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Fenn the Fool! posted:Getting everything all at once is probably too much, but I'd definitely appreciate being able to jump up 2 or 3 heat at a time. Crawling up to 10 heat on each weapon, 1 heat at a time, has been a tad slow. But you can add as much heat as you want at any time? It doesn't skip to whatever you just beat it at, the cap goes up by 1. You're not going to crank it up to 20 and get 20 titan bloods from beating Tartarus, but you will get 20 run clears' worth of rewards before you have to turn the heat up again, if you play the game long enough.
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Jan 22, 2020 17:37
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:You hush your god drat mouth. Please don't give the devs any hint that there's more to nerf. Chiron is one of my last favorite aspects that they haven't hosed up yet. I sincerely hope they don't change Chiron at all, because it is ludicrously fun to play and if they made it significantly worse I'd probably just drop the bow altogether. Chiron feels, to me, almost like how this game is meant to be played, especially at low Heat - you can pick up whatever and basically make it work, so you're not on a doomed run if specific boons didn't drop for you. Poison, Crit, Chill, Doom, Lightning... basically whatever works outside of maybe, like, Poseidon? Whom I generally just don't vibe with anyway outside of specific sword builds. I have multiple Chiron clears where I didn't even pick up a Call boon at all because it wasn't necessary. That said, if they're trying to maintain balance between weapons and aspects, Chiron probably needs to either be adjusted down or other weapons need to be adjusted up. Shield was up there pre-patch, but doesn't feel as good to me on this paused run I'm on. Catpain Slack posted:Playing the new patch, just got my first win yesterday pre-patch. Now I'm really struggling. WTF are the devs doing? As if this game needed to be harder. It could just be the -- wait bear with me while I bring up That Franchise™ - but it could just be the Soulsborne Effect, where the games aren't actually easier you've (the royal you've) just gotten better at them and thus sequels feel easier, but Hades doesn't strike me as being punishingly difficult even post-patch unless you're really cranking up the Heat, and those are challenge runs for a reason. Dead Cells, Hollow Knight, hell even Wizard of Legend murdered me significantly more than Hades has; my clear:attempt ratio is like 1:3 with less than 100 runs total wherein I started like 0 for 6, so even before you get to persistent upgrades you're basically good for no-heat runs. I don't mean to say this to discourage others who are struggling, or to humblebrag about  HOW GOOD I AM AT ROGUELIKES just that people maybe haven't found the right niche. I made zero progress on the sword until I had cleared five or so runs in a row with Chiron aspected Coronacht, and thereafter I knew what all the boss patterns were and quickly knocked out the 10 blood "beat the game with every weapon" prophecy.One of the upsides to Hades in terms of giving the player advantages is that you have a lot of guarantees - you get to guarantee what weapon you have and what aspect you use, you can get a lot of bonus starting gold and/or starting health, and getting a free massive nuke companion is relatively easy if time consuming because all you actually have to be able to do is beat Meg a lot. I do kinda wish there was more variance in terms of which boss you run into where - the three Furies is neat, so I wish they'd iterate on that more. They improved the Hydra fight significantly and I've never really had a problem with Hades, but Theseus + Asterius just feels boring most of the time and I feel like that boss could be tweaked. Doesn't even have to be easier or harder, just more fun would be nice.
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Jan 22, 2020 17:43
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Glazius posted:But you can add as much heat as you want at any time? It doesn't skip to whatever you just beat it at, the cap goes up by 1. I can, and I'd enjoy the challenge, but I'm also trying to get bounties so that I can unlock stuff. If I add too much heat and lose I don't get bounties. Yeah, jumping up 20 heat and getting 20 runs worth of rewards all at once is way too much, but being able to get 2 sets of bounties per run doesnt sound unreasonable.
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Jan 22, 2020 17:51
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Hades is still a lot friendlier than most roguelikes while still being very challenging. - There's things like I mentioned before with how there aren't any dead rooms; you can't clear a room without getting some sort of reward. - There's options with every power-up so you can build synergies even though it's still random which god and which selection of boons they give you. - The dash is very responsive and is a great lead-in to an attack, where every other roguelike with a dodgeroll mechanic treats it like a last ditch effort to dodge attacks where you get iframes but have a delay before you can attack again. Every upgrade you get feels substantial. - Heat is a great mechanic to set difficulty at about the same pace you're probably getting better at the game. This new patch made it harder but I think they're just trying to find where they want to set the difficulty.
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Jan 22, 2020 17:53
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We'll see. Ideally the game should feel like a fun single player experience through your first final boss clear., then offer endless nasty roguelike stuff on the back end. Previously you basically outscaled 0 heat by the time you unlocked health, money, and privileged status, and I dont think that was a bad thing. Its just your next 45 runs were too easy. No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 18:04
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The new patch turned all the chiron shops into dead rooms. Enemies drop so little cash that you need two money rooms and practically no spending on pools to afford a single boon. Or I could... go to a boon room.
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Jan 22, 2020 18:04
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LifeLynx posted:- The dash is very responsive and is a great lead-in to an attack Related, I really like the change they made to Aphrodite's dash that makes it do the Weak effect at your destination now rather than starting point. Makes so much more sense.
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Jan 22, 2020 18:14
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Glare Seethe posted:Related, I really like the change they made to Aphrodite's dash that makes it do the Weak effect at your destination now rather than starting point. Makes so much more sense. On a similar note, making Dionysus' dash cause three poison novas instead of one makes it a lot more useful. It's stronger if they all hit, and since they're staggered it's more likely an enemy will be hit by at least one of them for the two ailment damage boost.
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Jan 22, 2020 18:27
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So I'm super bad at this game, I've made it to the final boss 3 times now, can't beat them. Any suggestions? I feel the vast majority of my play style is dash attacking, very little casting. The answer is git gud, right?
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Jan 22, 2020 19:09
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Drewjitsu posted:So I'm super bad at this game, I've made it to the final boss 3 times now, can't beat them. Any suggestions? I feel the vast majority of my play style is dash attacking, very little casting. a single additional dash from hermes is enough to trivialize the final boss, but in any case you're going to get your butt kicked a lot in early runs (especially with this latest patch)
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Jan 22, 2020 19:11
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Drewjitsu posted:So I'm super bad at this game, I've made it to the final boss 3 times now, can't beat them. Any suggestions? I feel the vast majority of my play style is dash attacking, very little casting.
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Jan 22, 2020 19:19
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Drewjitsu posted:So I'm super bad at this game, I've made it to the final boss 3 times now, can't beat them. Any suggestions? I feel the vast majority of my play style is dash attacking, very little casting. Get cursed blade too!
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Jan 22, 2020 19:37
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Cursed blade and a good attack aspect is some face rolling lunacy Guen Yu only wishs it was. Whats that Artemis and Worldsplitter buff? Get over 40 health back on every crit? By Zag you've talked me into it!
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Jan 22, 2020 20:01
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LifeLynx posted:Hades is still a lot friendlier than most roguelikes while still being very challenging. The dash in this game is so incredibly good. It also lets you spam attacks at ridiculous speeds; I just won a 8 Heat Hestia Rail run with Demeter attack and Spread & Piercing shot and the speed you can unload your clip with dash spamming has got to be at least 3x it's regular fire rate. Build simply dumped Chill stacks. Throw in a ton of other Demeter up to her Legendary and it was truly silly. Oh yeah 21% Attack speed up and 3 extra dashes really helped too.
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Jan 22, 2020 21:02
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Get cursed blade too! On my last run, had cursed blade a ton of +dmg to dash, extra dash, double attack on dash, chill on dash, felt really good, got to phase two (which wasn't a surprise this time) dashed in as soon as the phase started and took ~143 damage in one shot and loving died. (thanks to level 4, (tartarus?)wiping out my deaths defiance with higher damage on poison, gently caress) 
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Jan 22, 2020 22:15
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New patch to the patch is out! Most major change is they walked back the Charon prices.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:25
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LifeLynx posted:New patch to the patch is out! Most major change is they walked back the Charon prices. Well, that was fast. Not sure what to think about the quick takeback.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:33
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Hah, knew there'd be a patch soon enough! Wasn't expecting it to be quite so soon though.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:40
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