|
Rudager posted:I dunno, I think the part with his goomar complaining he hasn't hosed her in ages is partly there to push him well into the gay side rather than something more ambiguous. He was absolutely gay. The show runners kind of know what gay is so they would have no idea what bi is Plus closeted gay men was hot poo poo for easy drama at the time
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 00:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 15:55 |
|
|
Fair enough My rationale was most men who are exclusively homosexual don't have children.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 00:34
|
|
|
COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:Related to Carlo getting construction this ep, in the next season (if you buy chases delineation of 6.1 and 6.2 as 6 and 7 respectively) is one of my favourite lines, from Tony to Carlo: “maybe you should start suckin cock instead of watching TV land, cuz Vito brought in THREE TIMES what you do on construction. Yeah!” The look on Carlos face is just so heartbroken and priceless, I love it. Tony is so bad about that. There's numerous points throughout the series where a word of encouragement could have gotten him some major loyalty points with his crew and he often chooses to just poo poo on them instead. Like when Ralph apologized became captain and Tony just couldn't bring himself to say anything positive. If he had, he might have had Ralph's loyalty. At worst, the tension between them would be gone for a little bit. But Tony couldn't do it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 00:39
|
|
|
escape artist posted:Fair enough They absolutely do.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 00:46
|
|
|
escape artist posted:Fair enough Depends on when they came out to themselves. A lot of gay guys keep trying to be straight for various reasons hoping that eventually it'll all click and feel normal. That could include all sorts of stuff like sleeping with tons of women, getting married and having kids, getting super religious, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 00:53
|
|
|
Bip Roberts posted:They absolutely do. I mean, I would call Vito like a 5 on the Kinsey scale
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 00:53
|
|
|
COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:Related to Carlo getting construction this ep, in the next season (if you buy chases delineation of 6.1 and 6.2 as 6 and 7 respectively) is one of my favourite lines, from Tony to Carlo: “maybe you should start suckin cock instead of watching TV land, cuz Vito brought in THREE TIMES what you do on construction. Yeah!” The look on Carlos face is just so heartbroken and priceless, I love it. I've always kind of assumed the Aprile/Cifaretto/Cestone/Spatafore crew is just constantly making money from some extremely lucrative bit of steady business it's involved in or other, regardless of who's running it, because that makes every other captain bragging about how they're indispensable as a good earner funnier.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 01:44
|
|
|
I loved when Johnny Sack rants about how Ralphie being such a great earner is bullshit because ANYBODY could make big money if they were in charge of the Unions. I think he even claims Eugene should do it, which may have been an endorsement of Eugene but equally could have been him saying,"Even that dipshit could make us all money!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 02:01
|
|
|
The Vosgian Beast posted:I've always kind of assumed the Aprile/Cifaretto/Cestone/Spatafore crew is just constantly making money from some extremely lucrative bit of steady business it's involved in or other, regardless of who's running it, because that makes every other captain bragging about how they're indispensable as a good earner funnier. It seems like at least given what we know of Ralphie and Vito they do a lot of construction stuff. I imagine there was a slump when Richie was in charge.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 04:31
|
|
|
Yea I think there's different levels of money that you can get out of the union construction jobs and different guys were just better or worse at squeezing out the max amount. Not to mention the possibility that the different guys in charge at various times might just decide to kick up less to Tony for whatever reason, even if the money coming in is the same. There's also a difference between money and trouble-free money that flows without you ever having to put any thought into it. That's what Tony loves about guys like Ralph and Vito, they seemed to just bring the money in without ever causing any issues that required Tony's attention.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 15:25
|
|
|
The amount Vito was bringing in makes it even funnier that he and Bobby were going at it over what was basically 2k a week kick-up (which is nothing to sneeze at, to be fair) for Eugene's old sportsbook.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 03:01
|
|
|
Was it 1.2 mil Tony said the house cost? I'd love to know exactly how much fictional cash these guys were bringing in weekly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 03:13
|
|
|
Sil, I mean SVZ is on Twitter and thankfully it turns out he's pretty down to earth, even though I can't stop reading the tweets in Sils persona
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 04:58
|
|
|
When Carlo takes over the construction op from Vito, Tony gets pissed that he doesn't bring in close to the money Vito does. "Maybe you should start sucking cock instead of watching TV, because Vito brought in 3 times as much as you!" So while I construction is a lucrative of op, Vito and Ralphie did have some special capabilities.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 07:23
|
|
|
codo27 posted:Was it 1.2 mil Tony said the house cost? I'd love to know exactly how much fictional cash these guys were bringing in weekly. It’s not so much just the straight cash though, there’s all the freebies from stealing gear (TV’s, stereos, win etc) and other things like never paying for dinners, booze, girls or whatever cause the lowest guy on the totem pole has to do it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 09:26
|
|
|
Pope Corky the IX posted:I can't tell if Meadow or Carmela is the worse person when the former tells the latter and Rosalie about what Finn witnessed. You have Meadow who has basically been gaslighting Finn for at least a year, rejecting every aspect of his experience with Vito with a bunch of excuses and bullshit, but then admitting to her mother that she 100% believes him and presents it as fact. Then you have Carmela promising Meadow that she won't say a word, and then immediately telling Tony about it, knowing what will probably end up happening to Vito. Carmela and Meadow know what happens to Tony's professional associates, but they don't know. They're oblivious and/or deluded. Meadow specifically, towards the end of the series. In no situation would they ever mention to Tony that Vito was gay if it ever occurred to them that it might lead to Vito's death. It's just a fun bit of gossip.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 14:16
|
|
|
escape artist posted:When Carlo takes over the construction op from Vito, Tony gets pissed that he doesn't bring in close to the money Vito does. "Maybe you should start sucking cock instead of watching TV, because Vito brought in 3 times as much as you!" So while I construction is a lucrative of op, Vito and Ralphie did have some special capabilities. Oh absolutely. When Richie was running the Aprile crew they were all about garbage. Then he went away for ten years and Jackie Jr. went into construction instead and did very well, making it one of the reasons he was named Acting Boss. Richie comes back and he's pissed that he has so few routes anymore because Jackie decided that the Aprile crew was all about construction now. This is why, along with Janice's manipulation, he ends up overreaching and dealing coke. Then Richie's taken out and Ralph comes back from Miami to run the crew and he's making money like crazy. Ralph was smart and he knew how to bullshit people, which went a long way in that business. And then once Ralph is gone, Vito takes over, who was already shown to be involved in construction because he has his own company. So experience was why Vito did so well, in addition to being smart himself. Then Vito lambchops it and it falls to Carlo, whose crew prior to that was involved with the ports and trucking. He's not that bright and completely out of his depth when he gets to be in charge of the Aprile crew. I remember that $1.2 million figure being what Johnny Sack's house is worth when his attorney is running down the list of seizable assets in preparation for his trial later this season. Johnny asks "Did they go through my loving sock drawer?!" and the lawyer tells him that the FBI shot video of everything in the house on the day of his arrest. Suxpool posted:Carmela and Meadow know what happens to Tony's professional associates, but they don't know. They're oblivious and/or deluded. Meadow specifically, towards the end of the series. In no situation would they ever mention to Tony that Vito was gay if it ever occurred to them that it might lead to Vito's death. I do and don't agree with this, but my bigger issue is that Meadow just says "Yes, Finn saw Vito giving a security guard a blowjob and Vito has been threatening him ever since" when she's been insisting to Finn for over a year that that's not what happened at all and he's overreacting and insulting her family and culture and on and on and on. It's a pivotal moment for Meadow because you realize just how much of the whole bullshit act she's involved with herself at this point. Basically, it's not that they don't know, it's that they choose to pretend they don't know. Pope Corky the IX fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Jan 25, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 14:17
|
|
|
codo27 posted:Was it 1.2 mil Tony said the house cost? I'd love to know exactly how much fictional cash these guys were bringing in weekly. If we look at when Chris was made, Paulie told him there was a 6G minimum that Chris had to kick up to him, and Paulie in turn had to kick his ten points up to Tony. It feels like Tony would be getting in the neighborhood of 50K a week, and that's probably not counting stuff like stakes in the Bing, Barone, Satriale's, or random things like the Colombian score.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 16:07
|
|
|
Suxpool posted:Carmela and Meadow know what happens to Tony's professional associates, but they don't know. They're oblivious and/or deluded. Meadow specifically, towards the end of the series. In no situation would they ever mention to Tony that Vito was gay if it ever occurred to them that it might lead to Vito's death. I want to add on to the know but don't know/delusional part. The end of the series beings home the horror of Tony into the lives of Carmela, AJ, and Meadow. But, as you think about what happened, it also brings home the horror of the mafia to the viewer. The show has largely focused on Tony and both of his families. At the end, three people the audience can relate to most are introduced to the consequences of the mafia in an up close and personal way. The audience is then forced to contend with the thought of character they have followed and care about being killed and maybe what that might look like to Carmela, AJ and Meadow. Carmela and AJ likely have gore all over them and in shock. Meadow walks in as it is happen, also likely in complete shock now. That dealing with the loss of a loved one in such a catastrophic way (and a refusal/self delusion to even think about it) is probably why much of the then audience would want to believe that Tony is just going to live in paranoia. It's the same delusion that caremla, AJ and Meadow live under that's been shattered. That is much better than the alternative of considering that Tony had been shot in front of his family because he is a terrible person and has essentially reaped what he has sown - and the only way out is death or prison. Probably already discussed, but something I find fascinating from a people perspective and the cling to not dead because it wasn't super super explicit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 17:42
|
|
|
I was kind of surprised how little Johnny Sack seems to be worth, his assets seem to be around 5 million irc? I know he’s not been the top guy for long, but when you have Vito offering 200k to Tony instead of a doctor’s note, 5 mill seems like small potatoes for the second in command of one of the five families.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 18:37
|
|
|
You magine what it cost to keep Ginny fed?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 18:42
|
|
|
codo27 posted:You magine what it cost to keep Ginny fed? Oooooooh!
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 19:19
|
|
|
Lots of money goes into sustaining a lifestyle so they probably make (and spend) a lot more than they'd personally have on hand at any given time. And as mentioned a couple episodes again, his daughter's wedding was paid for with money they probably wouldn't end up keeping anyway in the asset seizure, knocking 400k+ off that final figure. John's business is primarily construction, which is why the Esplanade shutdown hurt him especially badly. Also the Maserati was like $100k I think? The new house in Jersey, you can kinda see where the money goes as it's spent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 20:01
|
|
|
Plus the whole reason he pushed for Carmine to be taken out is he was costing Johnny lots of money
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 20:20
|
|
|
Also it might be worth noting that's all the assets that the FBI could find. Johnny probably spread his money around pretty well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 20:30
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Also it might be worth noting that's all the assets that the FBI could find. Johnny probably spread his money around pretty well. He's selling things off left and right because he's so strapped. None of them are good at money. Hesh even goes into it a bit. They blow all of it on outward appearance, gamble/drink/gently caress it away, or immediately put it back out on the street so they can pad their next envelope up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 22:47
|
|
|
codo27 posted:Was it 1.2 mil Tony said the house cost? I'd love to know exactly how much fictional cash these guys were bringing in weekly. In one of the later episodes, when Hesh is asked to estimate Tony's total worth, I think he says "about three", which seems on the low side but I don't know. That's assuming he meant 3 million, which is a lot of money but I'd think the Soprano house alone, the cars, the boat, the properties and the Bing would easily approach more 3/4 of that. gently caress if I know. also, reading these recaps and noticing some of the plot devices people say feel shoehorned in or heavy handed: in retrospect, there does seem to be a lot of them. What would you say is the most forced out of all of them? - Buscemi/Blundetto - Tony's sudden gambling issue - Vito - Julianna Margulies love triangle - Paulie's mom - Cleaver I think I'm missing a few actually. To me, it was the first two on my list. Also, since Chris gets all the best lines, I love when he relapses with the junkie hit man guy with the spike in the car and starts pontificating about Christmas and his future family life "You'll come over..."
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2020 23:09
|
|
|
Hesh guesses minus assets Tony to be worth under 6 mil with his new boat to be 3.2.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 00:22
|
|
|
I love how detached from everything Tony is that when the subject of nobody wanting to work with Vito comes up with Carlo, he notes,"I might not have been able to afford the new boat if it wasn't for Vito!" as if anybody other than him would give a poo poo about that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 00:28
|
|
|
Tony really was a bad leader. Kinda makes you wonder how good Carmine and DiMeo were at it since they ran their crews for long stretches of time and once they were gone it was just a carousel of idiots rolling in.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 00:34
|
|
|
The show never seemed to care about dirty vs. clean money but the Wire sure did. There's probably a big difference between Tony's open worth, his reserves of cleanish money that he can justify for poo poo like boats, and his piles of unlaundered cash squirreled away in sheds and under rocks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 00:43
|
|
|
I rewatched Steve Buscemi’s directorial debut Trees Lounge on Tubi and never realized how many Sopranos actors show up in it. A lot of Scorsese alums too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZutAd7RQKU ruddiger fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Jan 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 02:15
|
|
|
How bad do you consider the anti semitism to be in Hesh's portrayal? Exploiting the black artists, the way things end with him (yes it's mainly Tony being an rear end but what Hesh says to his partner as mentioned above). Maybe I'm overreaching here but stereotypes do make up quite a bit of his character
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 03:52
|
|
|
Mr. Prokosch posted:The show never seemed to care about dirty vs. clean money but the Wire sure did. There's probably a big difference between Tony's open worth, his reserves of cleanish money that he can justify for poo poo like boats, and his piles of unlaundered cash squirreled away in sheds and under rocks. Right. That's what I meant about Johnny Sack. He had a lot of money but only so much he could touch, especially while in the can.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 04:30
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Also it might be worth noting that's all the assets that the FBI could find. Johnny probably spread his money around pretty well. My question was prompted by the scene in jail where they go through Johnny’s assets; it’s made absolutely clear that’s his entire worth, and that the feds even found a large chunk of cash he’d left with some relative that he assumed would be safe.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 08:52
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:I rewatched Steve Buscemi’s directorial debut Trees Lounge on Tubi and never realized how many Sopranos actors show up in it. A lot of Scorsese alums too. Same. Watched it again just last weekend. It's a very good film.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 12:45
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:
I've mentioned this before, but Tony starts gambling in season five when he's separated from Carmela and living in Livia's old house, Jerusalem even mentions it in the recaps. It's not a huge issue at the time, but there are several scenes that start with him already on the phone making bets when he has to end the call because someone walked in. The gambling doesn't start to become a real problem until after the shooting, and especially by the seventh (6.2) season. In fact, in "Stage 5" which is a few episodes before "Chasing It" Tony is in the middle of placing a bet for something like $100,000 while he's waiting for Little Carmine to sit down to lunch with him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 14:34
|
|
|
The Wire really did a good job of showing how these guys can buy themselves the trappings of a lavish lifestyle, but they'll never have the kind of serious wealth and power that the real money men have. They can pile up a few million here and squirrel away a few more million there, but it pales in comparison with the levers of power and influence available to those at the highest levels. What the Wire demonstrated so memorably with the Stringer Bell story was that going legit may have a higher level of rewards but it requires a whole different set of skills and when guys like Tony Soprano step outside of their comfort zone it usually doesn't go very well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 17:33
|
|
|
Pope Corky the IX posted:I've mentioned this before, but Tony starts gambling in season five when he's separated from Carmela and living in Livia's old house, Jerusalem even mentions it in the recaps. It's not a huge issue at the time, but there are several scenes that start with him already on the phone making bets when he has to end the call because someone walked in. The gambling doesn't start to become a real problem until after the shooting, and especially by the seventh (6.2) season. In fact, in "Stage 5" which is a few episodes before "Chasing It" Tony is in the middle of placing a bet for something like $100,000 while he's waiting for Little Carmine to sit down to lunch with him. There's even a scene in... season two I think it is, when Tony thinks he's going to have to lambchop it and gives his lawyer $450K. When he comes to get it back the lawyer asks if he saw some game or other, and Tony jokes (half jokes?) about that's why he needs it back.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 19:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 15:55 |
|
|
Pope Corky the IX posted:I've mentioned this before, but Tony starts gambling in season five when he's separated from Carmela and living in Livia's old house, Jerusalem even mentions it in the recaps. It's not a huge issue at the time, but there are several scenes that start with him already on the phone making bets when he has to end the call because someone walked in. The gambling doesn't start to become a real problem until after the shooting, and especially by the seventh (6.2) season. In fact, in "Stage 5" which is a few episodes before "Chasing It" Tony is in the middle of placing a bet for something like $100,000 while he's waiting for Little Carmine to sit down to lunch with him. Fair enough. The gambling being a real problem just seemed rather abrupt but you guys raise some points. God drat, I was listening to the radio today and this show came up in the context of "last series you watched". Its been 2 decades. gently caress me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2020 22:35
|
|