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Landsraad? I am the Landsraad.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 17:14 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:21 |
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habituallyred posted:Maybe it was the years of hype, but it seemed to me that the whole book was actually building up to a joke. All the little chapter headers are great, and most of them are from hagiographies written by the princess that Paul marries at the end of the book. But at the end of the book Paul says something like, 'I heard Princess [name] likes history. I hope its true, because she is getting the contractual minimum from me.' Just a really weird disconnect from the reputation the book has. I kinda hope they flesh out Irulan a bit more. She has a pretty cool arc over the trilogy - especially when she gets cold feet about treason and ends up being one of Leto IIs most fervent supporters. You could do an interesting feminist analysis of Irulan and Harah over the trilogy. It feels very Le Guin - patriarchy has forced this women into the role of wives and political playing pieces, but instead of trying to overturn the whole system they carve out a little chunk of space where they have respect and control.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 17:22 |
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I remember so many people challenge Paul to knife-fights for leadership that Chani starts doing the fights for him while he's doing whatever and her reasoning is like he's got more important things to do and also these folks want to kill her man so of course she's going to gently caress them up. But she also brings up how it sends a message to the rest of the world that like, you want to gently caress with Muad'dib? lol yeah right even Muad'dib's mere woman by herself has a higher body count than your entire sietch. And while the fighting prowess of the Fremen in Dune is unmatched/etc., you can see how that kind of takes effect to its logical endpoint when towards the end of the book you see characters freaking about how oh poo poo even small Fremen children are on par with the Sardaukar and even more ferocious.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 19:46 |
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I'm not seeing any announcement on who's play Feyd. Hopefully they just got Sting back.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 21:11 |
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Feyd doesn't really show up until late in the book so will probably only appear in DUNC: Part 2 if they make it. I'm currently in a reread myself and I was just thinking that in the scene where Feyd fights an unnamed Atreides soldier to impress his uncle and Count Fenring, they could make him be Duncan in the movie to give Momoa a cool onscreen death instead of just disappearing like he did in the book.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 21:46 |
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Feyd and Rabban will have to be consolidated, just like Duncan/Thufir/Gurney, I suspect.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 21:59 |
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Rabban and Feyd serve entirely different purposes in the story that wouldn't make any sense. And actors for Duncan/Thufir/Gurney have all been cast already so they are definitely 3 separate characters.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 22:01 |
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Jewmanji posted:Feyd and Rabban will have to be consolidated, just like Duncan/Thufir/Gurney, I suspect. Isn’t Bautista playing Rabban? I really doubt he’s been merged with Feyd; Bautista could take on a schoolbus of Tim Chalamets and win.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 22:03 |
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WarMECH posted:Rabban and Feyd serve entirely different purposes in the story that wouldn't make any sense. Yes but when you adapt things you often have to dramatically simplify them. Rabban and Feyd are each fairly minor presences in the book, despite their important to the overall plot. With four hours of film it’ll be very difficult to justify all of these characters existences
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 22:23 |
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WarMECH posted:Feyd doesn't really show up until late in the book so will probably only appear in DUNC: Part 2 if they make it. I had this exact same thought about putting Duncan into that fight in the movie. Also the whole Harkonnen crew is all introduced in the same early chapter of the book.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 22:30 |
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WarMECH posted:Feyd doesn't really show up until late in the book so will probably only appear in DUNC: Part 2 if they make it. Duncan doesn't just disappear off screen. Paul sees him catch a slow pellet in the head: "Paul had one last glimpse of Idaho standing against a swarm of Harkonnen uniforms--his jerking controlled staggers, the black goat hair with a red blossom of death in it." Then a few paragraphs later, Jessica says, "Duncan's dead, Paul. You saw the wound." I think this sad anticlimactic death is much more fitting to the story, and I think it would be more effective on screen than some glorious death in an arena.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 22:44 |
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Sidenote: I'm re-reading Doon (thanks, ebay!) and there are so many jokes I didn't get when I first read it as a teen. Herbert's literary style is ribbed even more mercilessly than I remember, as well. Definitely worth a read if you can find it.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 22:45 |
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The best thing about Doon is how it careens from juvenile to incisive and back, sometimes in the same sentence.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 22:58 |
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Consolidating Rabban and Feyd would be pretty dumb. Part of Vlad's plan was to let Rabban rule like a psycho for a while so that when it was time for Feyd to take over he'd look better in comparison.
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 00:09 |
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Yeah, from what we've seen of the casting it doesn't make sense that they would consolidate those two. I imagine we'll get some dialogue about Feyd in the movie and he'll be cast in the second.
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 01:04 |
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Dune knowledge havers: why does everyone else have setting appropriate names but then there's a guy named Duncan Idaho, which if I didn't know better was the guy that founded Idaho Potatoes.
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 02:03 |
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cptn_dr posted:This but from The Lighthouse "Let Shai Hulud strike ye dead, Feyd-Rautha! HAAARK!!!"
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 02:17 |
Al Cu Ad Solte posted:Dune knowledge havers: why does everyone else have setting appropriate names but then there's a guy named Duncan Idaho, which if I didn't know better was the guy that founded Idaho Potatoes. He's got a comically MidwestTM name because he's essentially Space John Wayne until he gets shot in the face.
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 03:04 |
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Think Indiana Jones. Also towards the end of God Emperor, a woman has an orgasm watching Duncan scale a cliff.
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 05:15 |
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PeterWeller posted:Yeah. Here's a link to the article where Herbert discusses his intentions. Sure, Intentional Fallacy/"Death of the Author", but Dune's narrative rhetoric clearly supports this intended reading. Frank Herbert posted:As in an Escher lithograph I involved myself with recurrent themes that turn to paradox...It s like a koan a Zen mind breaker It s like the Cretan Epimenides saying, 'All Cretans are liars " really makes u think... https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3554972&pagenumber=575&perpage=40#post474457029 General Battuta posted:Half the philosophy Herbert writes is bullshit designed to spoof your smart thought detector. A good game is 'does this chapter epigram actually mean anything?'
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 06:08 |
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PeterWeller posted:Duncan doesn't just disappear off screen. Paul sees him catch a slow pellet in the head: "Paul had one last glimpse of Idaho standing against a swarm of Harkonnen uniforms--his jerking controlled staggers, the black goat hair with a red blossom of death in it." Then a few paragraphs later, Jessica says, "Duncan's dead, Paul. You saw the wound." Anticlimactic? Doesn't he die fighting off 19 Sardaukar and mostly winning?
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 09:45 |
u brexit ukip it posted:Anticlimactic? Doesn't he die fighting off 19 Sardaukar and mostly winning?
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 09:58 |
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Just realised that the first line of the thread should have been: A N I D A H O
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 10:39 |
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Nessus posted:Depending on how you look at it, he definitely wins, but the story doesn't stay focused on the heroic Last Stand of Duncan Idaho, instead it follows the Duke's psychic son and his mom as they flee further. True, but any director looking to add an extra action scene has his work cut out for him there.
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 12:17 |
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David D. Davidson posted:Think Indiana Jones. I never read past the first book but every excerpt afterwards sounds deliciously horny when posted
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 16:11 |
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u brexit ukip it posted:Anticlimactic? Doesn't he die fighting off 19 Sardaukar and mostly winning? He's this awesome knife fighter cutting down dudes left and right and then he just catches a bullet in the head and the story goes on. Silver2195 posted:really makes u think... Herbert's works wouldn't be half as wonderful without all the rambling psychobabble. And the epigrams always relate the their chapters, sometimes just as little jokes.
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 19:01 |
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Honestly the whole human potential angle of the book is so silly and of its time. You could be as smart as a computer if you just studied really, really hard!
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 19:30 |
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I think Herbert's actual writing is pretty bad and thus have never been a huge fan of the book as a whole but the universe is so interesting including stuff like Mentats. I'll never understand why Anderson and lil Herbert thought it was a good idea to make the Butlerian Jihad a generic war against domineering machines I always envisioned it as a luddite kinda thing.
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 19:33 |
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porfiria posted:Honestly the whole human potential angle of the book is so silly and of its time. You could be as smart as a computer if you just studied really, really hard! No, it's study hard and take transhumanist drugs.
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# ? Feb 1, 2020 23:22 |
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Mulva posted:No, it's study hard and take transhumanist drugs. How many drugs were in that book? Spice Semuta Sapho Elacca Shere Verite Water of Life Etc., etc.
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# ? Feb 2, 2020 00:37 |
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Groovelord Neato posted:I'll never understand why Anderson and lil Herbert thought it was a good idea to make the Butlerian Jihad a generic war against domineering machines I always envisioned it as a luddite kinda thing. Because they're lazy hacks.
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# ? Feb 2, 2020 00:46 |
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Mulva posted:No, it's study hard and take transhumanist drugs. You also needed to do meditation and yoga. One of the premises of the book is that 60s new age bullshit actually works.
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# ? Feb 2, 2020 00:53 |
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Groovelord Neato posted:I think Herbert's actual writing is pretty bad and thus have never been a huge fan of the book as a whole but the universe is so interesting including stuff like Mentats. the dune encyclopedia is quasi-canon because herbert signed off on it, but out of print (it also conflicts with the prequels... hmm), which is very interesting in terms of world building. it describes the jihad as being sparked by horror at automated abortions.
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# ? Feb 2, 2020 02:41 |
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i don't mean to get all political, but i think it's interesting dune appeals to people with wildly different political views, while i've understood herbert to be pretty conservative or at least libertarian minded in a very pacific northwestern kind of way. i would probably guess it's due to the intensity of his vision, which is probably the most we can ask of a writer (along with being, like, not a lunatic)
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# ? Feb 2, 2020 02:44 |
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:yeah as a crusade against "machine thinking," i.e. automation. and in herbert's context of the time as reflecting fears of computerization after world war II. Yeah even with the illustrations of literal robots and their human servants enslaving humanity in the Lynch illustrated intro, I always took it to be basically mythology to the people in Dune. And one where stuff is overly automated to the detriment of humanity rather than a literal Terminator-like scenario where thinking machines conquer people in the army sense. I mean it's something that happens 10,000 years before Dune takes place, look at how fluid our understanding of historical figures and the narratives built around them are from like, not even 1,000 years ago. So you could basically make the Butlerian Jihad pretty much anything you want so of course they went with the least interesting option. Speaking of this, the overarching story and themes of the Picard show so far , I wasn't expecting it to go in the direction it's going at all, a great surprise. BrutalistMcDonalds posted:i don't mean to get all political, but i think it's interesting dune appeals to people with wildly different political views, while i've understood herbert to be pretty conservative or at least libertarian minded in a very pacific northwestern kind of way. i would probably guess it's due to the intensity of his vision, which is probably the most we can ask of a writer (along with being, like, not a lunatic) This always makes me wonder, Dune has a reputation of being too weird to film and being particularly strange compared to other popular sci-fi stuff. But if the book is as popular and overall well-regarded as it is, is it really that weird? It's like how EVERYONE sees themselves and their political mindset as the rebels in Star Wars and not the empire no matter what their situation or walk of life is. There's a lot of politicking in Dune but the basic like, chosen one, noble savages, treacherous bad guys, galactic fate hinging on a personal grudge knife-fight kind of pieces are all in place and there's so much personal motivation to everyone's actions, it's easy to like how the story plays out regardless of one's political views. Plus Herbert was definitely a conservative guy, but like I can't imagine some of the "luminaries" of libertarianism today writing something like Dune Messiah as a follow up to Dune. So no being a lunatic is definitely a huge help in service of the Dune saga. PeterWeller posted:Duncan doesn't just disappear off screen. Paul sees him catch a slow pellet in the head: "Paul had one last glimpse of Idaho standing against a swarm of Harkonnen uniforms--his jerking controlled staggers, the black goat hair with a red blossom of death in it." Then a few paragraphs later, Jessica says, "Duncan's dead, Paul. You saw the wound." No way having him be the arena guy would be even MORE anti-climatic, like show him making his stand, you see him make a stand and get gunned down as Jessica/Paul feel like in the book. Then when he pops up in the arena, wounded but with a lot of fight left in him, it's like gently caress yeah Duncan is back, but just have Feyd like completely clown him and use the poison barbs and stuff like in the book so it's even more anti-climatic. Either way I really do think one of those three should typically be cut or otherwise combined in some way. But since this is going to be two movies I hope that means everyone will be done justice to how they play out in the book.
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# ? Feb 2, 2020 05:28 |
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Payndz posted:Just realised that the first line of the thread should have been: The real reason that Dune has never quite had a hit adaptation: it's just a real hard ask to get people to accept that the ultimate badass of the far future is named Duncan Idaho
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# ? Feb 2, 2020 09:12 |
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Schwarzwald posted:You also needed to do meditation and yoga. I remember reading in a later Dune-novel that the first Mentat was trained by intelligent robots, so did Herbert change his mind later or was the message that Humans are so much better at being robots even robots agree?
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# ? Feb 2, 2020 12:32 |
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sean10mm posted:How many drugs were in that book? To be fair aren't like half those essentially the same thing? "Worm poo poo" is the common through line to a lot of them. Like how Crack and Cocaine are the same thing in the end.
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 07:33 |
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Only spice and water of life are sandworm juice. The others are space-red bull, space-PCP, space-opium, space-sodium pentathol, and uh.... space-CJD
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 09:55 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:21 |
Yo can I just get an Arnold Palmer?
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# ? Feb 3, 2020 13:33 |