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Autism Sneaks posted:new chapo cringe It sucked and I don't believe them when they say they'll leave Bernie behind if he endorses the nominee.
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Feb 6, 2020 06:52
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pod casts,
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Feb 6, 2020 07:00
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StashAugustine posted:Operation Cast Pod
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Feb 6, 2020 07:05
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*unfurls curtain revealing a blinking sign that spells You Can't Win*
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Feb 6, 2020 07:06
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GalacticAcid posted:pod casts, Yes, it's loving stupid. But the reality is a bunch of socdem podcasters from New York are the representatives of the left for this userbase, i.e. NEET computer janitors who make Gritty memes.
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Feb 6, 2020 07:10
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Prince Myshkin posted:Yes, it's loving stupid. But the reality is a bunch of socdem podcasters from New York are the representatives of the left for this userbase, i.e. NEET computer janitors who make Gritty memes. you can't be a NEET and a computer janitor at the same time. checkmate
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Feb 6, 2020 07:11
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Finicums Wake posted:you can't be a NEET and a computer janitor at the same time. checkmate NEET is a mindset, my friend.
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Feb 6, 2020 07:13
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From NEET to YEET!!: How A Positive Mindset Can Turn Your Lifestyle into A Livelihood Matt Christmas and Amber A’lee Frost Verso Books 2020
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Feb 6, 2020 07:17
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GalacticAcid posted:From NEET to YEET!!: How A Positive Mindset Can Turn Your Lifestyle into A Livelihood It'd be funny if the book was one page and said "Get sad nerds to pay you $150k a month."
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Feb 6, 2020 07:20
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but this thread is free?
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Feb 6, 2020 07:21
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Prince Myshkin posted:Yes, it's loving stupid. But the reality is a bunch of socdem podcasters from New York are the representatives of the left for this userbase, i.e. NEET computer janitors who make Gritty memes. Who cares
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Feb 6, 2020 07:36
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Prince Myshkin posted:It sucked and I don't believe them when they say they'll leave Bernie behind if he endorses the nominee. it was actually good. the people taking state power through electoral politics is the absolute best case scenario and we should engage in it sincerely and wholeheartedly with the goal of staving off bloodshed. i think sitting back and sneering at people organizing around the movement coalescing around bernie is cynical and broke-brained. i also doubt that the people fantasizing about the inevitable violence that follows the collapse of electoral politics have the capability to practice it.
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Feb 6, 2020 07:41
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GalacticAcid posted:Juan Guaidó...welcome to the anti imperialist resistance
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Feb 6, 2020 07:42
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jarofpiss posted:it was actually good. the people taking state power through electoral politics is the absolute best case scenario and we should engage in it sincerely and wholeheartedly with the goal of staving off bloodshed. i think sitting back and sneering at people organizing around the movement coalescing around bernie is cynical and broke-brained. yeah. and even with that being said people should absolutely build institutions that don't rely on electoralism as well, if only to enforce any electoral gains because you can't count on the DNC trying to control bernard even if he wins. but the least violent path is the best one because the most vulnerable people are always going to die and suffer first in any serious revolution
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Feb 6, 2020 07:44
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also, i posted this in the other thread, but if bernie is a social fascist disappointment, that means tons and tons of left radicalization
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Feb 6, 2020 07:47
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Dreylad posted:yeah. and even with that being said people should absolutely build institutions that don't rely on electoralism as well, if only to enforce any electoral gains because you can't count on the DNC trying to control bernard even if he wins. my view is that 2020 is the fork in the road where we find if a peaceful transition of power is possible. sanders has already shown himself to be an insurgent within the dnc ready to confront their narrative as soon as they started to circle the wagons and try to ratfuck him. his entire platform and electoral strategy is building a ground up movement of people pushing for changes that undermine the power of capital within our society. this necessitates building a movement that is independent of democrat party politics, and he's doing that. we're going to find out if he's able to take power from within the bourgeois party or if we have to take a different path, but at this point poo poo-talking the organizers actually out building the mass movement is dumb and cynical.
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Feb 6, 2020 07:49
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Zas posted:also, i posted this in the other thread, but if bernie is a social fascist disappointment, that means tons and tons of left radicalization So if we win, we win. If we lose, we win. And if we win-lose (your post), we win?
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Feb 6, 2020 07:52
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lol even the psl isnt going to run in swing states if bernie is the nominee.
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Feb 6, 2020 07:52
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jarofpiss posted:it was actually good. the people taking state power through electoral politics is the absolute best case scenario and we should engage in it sincerely and wholeheartedly with the goal of staving off bloodshed. i think sitting back and sneering at people organizing around the movement coalescing around bernie is cynical and broke-brained. There's a big difference between supporting the movement now and supporting it when it gets railroaded into organizing for the Democratic nominee if it isn't Bernie. Or continuing to support President Sanders when he capitulates. We can't make the mistakes of the Obama era and I worry this is a repeat of that. Doesn't mean I don't want Bernie to win.
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Feb 6, 2020 07:53
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Zas posted:also, i posted this in the other thread, but if bernie is a social fascist disappointment, that means tons and tons of left radicalization what makes you think bernie is going to be a social fascist disappointment? i'm a legitimate optimist around this movement. i don't think bourgeois electoral politics are the path to liberation but i also understand that we have to crawl before we can walk. most people are not going to internalize their lack of agency within our current system without everything being laid bare for them, and the bernie campaign lays the path for either the self destruction of the dnc or the taking of state power by a working people's movement.
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Feb 6, 2020 07:53
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jarofpiss posted:what makes you think bernie is going to be a social fascist disappointment? oh i don't! I'm just thinking, you know, if he is, it's not the end of the world. I mean, my own history and a lot of this forums involves being radicalized by disappointment with obama lol so thats where I'm coming from
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Feb 6, 2020 07:56
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Prince Myshkin posted:There's a big difference between supporting the movement now and supporting it when it gets railroaded into organizing for the Democratic nominee if it isn't Bernie. Or continuing to support President Sanders when he capitulates. We can't make the mistakes of the Obama era and I worry this is a repeat of that. Doesn't mean I don't want Bernie to win. i think it's pretty clear that bernie is running a platform that fundamentally destabilizes the status quo and materially reduces the power of capital in society. i have no reason to think he's going to for some reason sell out to the elites at the age of 150 or however old he is when his platform is explicitly designed to undermine capital. this guy isn't running on expanding the food stamp program.
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Feb 6, 2020 07:56
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i do think if bernie loses to trump, that could really bad. basically all the populist democratic left gains would be in question, and its not like radical left politics would benefit either, i dont think (strictly talking about amerikkka here)
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Feb 6, 2020 07:57
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Zas posted:i do think if bernie loses to trump, that could really bad. basically all the populist democratic left gains would be in question, and its not like radical left politics would benefit either, i dont think this is the worst case scenario and it's one where we are roundly rejected by american culture. it likely means it's too late to stave off fascism and we're all going to die in the streets fighting them (if we have any integrity)
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Feb 6, 2020 07:59
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Zas posted:i do think if bernie loses to trump, that could really bad. basically all the populist democratic left gains would be in question, and its not like radical left politics would benefit either, i dont think (strictly talking about amerikkka here) if he loses to trump, the left is going to have to eat poo poo like labour under corbyn did just a few months ago. I wouldn't say it's the end of everything, but people are going to generally turn to alternate forms of organizing. It still might mean that the democratic party dies, if only because the only way I see bernie losing to trump is if enough democrats defect to the GOP however, bernie's popularity seems to clearly extend beyond leftist circles so that's something. and given that he seems to be the only one who organized satellite caucuses in iowa it suggests his campaign is a lot better prepared to use every tool available to achieve electoral success
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Feb 6, 2020 08:06
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jarofpiss posted:i think it's pretty clear that bernie is running a platform that fundamentally destabilizes the status quo and materially reduces the power of capital in society. i have no reason to think he's going to for some reason sell out to the elites at the age of 150 or however old he is when his platform is explicitly designed to undermine capital. this guy isn't running on expanding the food stamp program. Bernie, a moderate social democrat, is the ideal candidate to forge a compromise between labor and capital that will keep the machine running a little longer. If capitalists were smart they'd be on board with his program and give a few concessions to segments of the US working class while continuing to immiserate the more precarious strata, along with the Global South. Because they see him as an existential threat and are the beneficiaries of an almost unprecedented concentration of wealth and power, however, it's unlikely they will allow this and will attempt to sabotage him at every turn. This provides an opportunity for further organizing, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking socialism is going to get legislated into existence by the cracker demon US Congress. The only sane reasons to support Sanders are tactical.
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Feb 6, 2020 08:06
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The notion that the Democratic Party must either be transformed or destroyed as an institution is completely correct, even if it appears to be a social democratic preoccupation. There are very few paths to power, and the DNC is currently blocking the one that doesn't feature a strong chance of partial societal collapse. I'm all for the Bernie movement taking on the task of determining what's possible wrt the party, since there's no other left force that's capable of doing so right now.
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Feb 6, 2020 08:07
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and obviously electing sanders is step 1 in a generational project to slowly replace every person in a position of power in the US with people sympathetic to modest social democratic reforms. congress, the senate, and the supreme court have to be stacked full of left wing people to enact half of the poo poo he wants to do
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Feb 6, 2020 08:09
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Dreylad posted:if he loses to trump, the left is going to have to eat poo poo like labour under corbyn did just a few months ago. I wouldn't say it's the end of everything, but people are going to generally turn to alternate forms of organizing. yeah i'm not saying it would be the end, but a lot of the american left would be stuck in the wilderness again for god knows how long
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Feb 6, 2020 08:12
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Prince Myshkin posted:Bernie, a moderate social democrat, is the ideal candidate to forge a compromise between labor and capital that will keep the machine running a little longer. If capitalists were smart they'd be on board with his program and give a few concessions to segments of the US working class while continuing to immiserate the more precarious strata, along with the Global South. Because they see him as an existential threat and are the beneficiaries of an almost unprecedented concentration of wealth and power, however, it's unlikely they will allow this and will attempt to sabotage him at every turn. obviously the electoral system built and designed to uphold chattel slavery is not the vehicle to our liberation. that being said, working people need to see tangible victories that result from their organizing. at this stage that looks like policy victories along the lines of medicare for all, absolving student loan debt, dismantling of our prison state, etc. given his background, and his current policy proposals, i see no reason to believe that sanders is interested in forging a compromise that defangs the power of organized people. personally, i think it's pretty clear from the way he has structured his platform that he understands the peril that comes with social reforms that reinforce the power structures we live under. you cannot organize people without plans for tangible and achievable victories. i don't see anything tangible or achievable at this stage in history coming from anybody that has a real hardon for criticizing the sanders movement
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Feb 6, 2020 08:19
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Dreylad posted:and obviously electing sanders is step 1 in a generational project to slowly replace every person in a position of power in the US with people sympathetic to modest social democratic reforms. congress, the senate, and the supreme court have to be stacked full of left wing people to enact half of the poo poo he wants to do i don't think this is going to happen that slowly. i think we are at a historical tipping point.
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Feb 6, 2020 08:19
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Zas posted:yeah i'm not saying it would be the end, but a lot of the american left would be stuck in the wilderness again for god knows how long You'd see a lot more Wilhelm Von Spronsons, that's for sure.
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Feb 6, 2020 08:20
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jarofpiss posted:i don't think this is going to happen that slowly. i think we are at a historical tipping point. that would be genuinely impressive given the institutional roadblocks in place.
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Feb 6, 2020 08:22
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Dreylad posted:that would be genuinely impressive given the institutional roadblocks in place. *crowd of 30,000 waiting outside during a House meeting* gee I wonder if they'll pass that bill
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Feb 6, 2020 08:24
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Zas posted:yeah i'm not saying it would be the end, but a lot of the american left would be stuck in the wilderness again for god knows how long I think people on the left really underappreciate how reactionary the moment we're living in really is. There's been no left movement worthy of the name since the failure of the New Left in the 1970s, and there still isn't one today. For a long time it wasn't even possible to conceive of what a movement would look like. The movements that appeared to be left were either false starts, incoherent, too narrow, or elite-driven. But this is starting to change, slowly. People are actually engaged in what is essentially a crowdfunded presidential campaign for a second time after the failure of the first try, and that's the first sign in literally decades of a mass political movement in this country. It's very naive to think that a more radical successor movement will automatically arise in the case of a Bernie defeat, but it also doesn't guarantee a return to the 1990s, where left projects aren't even viable as mere ideas. Terrorist Fistbump fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 08:27
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jarofpiss posted:you cannot organize people without plans for tangible and achievable victories. i don't see anything tangible or achievable at this stage in history coming from anybody that has a real hardon for criticizing the sanders movement This is for all intents and purposes a private forum and I'm not vocalizing these concerns publicly.
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Feb 6, 2020 08:28
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Dreylad posted:that would be genuinely impressive given the institutional roadblocks in place. bernie dropping his own iowa counts the minute they had their snafu says to me he isn't trying to maintain the kayfabe of the american electoral process. i think we're entering a period where electoralism is perilously hanging on by a thread and we will start seeing real pushes to transform the process. i don't think the current economic and power structures can maintain themselves long enough for a republican captured judiciary to die off and be replaced. i think we'll see radical change coming soon, but the first steps are taking state power wherever we can before the system starts to break down
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Feb 6, 2020 08:29
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the pod is cast
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Feb 6, 2020 08:38
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Prince Myshkin posted:It sucked and I don't believe them when they say they'll leave Bernie behind if he endorses the nominee.
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Feb 6, 2020 08:43
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jarofpiss posted:it was actually good. the people taking state power through electoral politics is the absolute best case scenario if this is actually true then we’re hosed lol like I’m absolutely not cut out for revolutionary work or violence but if you’re an electoralist who isn’t holding back door meetings with revolutionaries to make peace and coordinate and accepts that someone has to do the dirty work you are delusional imo
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Feb 6, 2020 15:23
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