|
I was told I could rearch everything I use and move it to AWS, or they could rehost in the new data center. I guess we weren’t getting rid of data centers entirely, just getting one with better pricing and throughput, but figured they could shave off some tech debt and try the new shiny at the same time by “encouraging” us to rearch instead of rehost. The first server they put in AWS, a basic terminal server, couldn’t connect to any AD resources and was functionally useless. I spent the next week in meetings rubber stamping, “no, rehost it. I don’t care. I don’t have time for this.” So far, 90% of my tools and servers still work, and other teams are screaming elsewhere that all their poo poo is busted. I’m feeling rather smug all of a sudden. 
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 19:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 04:06 |
|
|
That’s less an issue with aws than it is with the people being incompetent Also, if your cloud plan is just moving vms you’re doing it wrong
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 19:23
|
|
|
The Fool posted:That’s less an issue with aws than it is with the people being incompetent Agreed on all of the above. I mean, our “cloud plan” is pretty much our entire business...but someone got a real bug up their rear end about AWS and now wants it in ALL THE THINGS
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 19:36
|
|
|
The Fool posted:That’s less an issue with aws than it is with the people being incompetent I hate vms. I don’t want to patch them. I don’t want to run vulnerability assessments on them. I don’t want to pay for them. If you tell me your app needs a VM, I hate you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 20:02
|
|
|
Is there generally a reason an app would need a VM instead of just a container?
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 22:36
|
|
|
ChubbyThePhat posted:Is there generally a reason an app would need a VM instead of just a container? Here, let me introduce you to this random LoB app that has been in use for the last 20 years. It is updated regularly but will never receive a major architectural change and two thirds of our business relies on it working.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 22:46
|
|
|
25 year old code that has had minimal updates over time and is currently on life support because the biggest clients refuse to move to anything new? Wait, that was my last job.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 22:47
|
|
|
The Fool posted:Here, let me introduce you to this random LoB app that has been in use for the last 20 years. It is updated regularly but will never receive a major architectural change and two thirds of our business relies on it working. It's also got a special USB dongle it uses for licensing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 22:47
|
|
|
nullfunction posted:It's also got a special parallel port dongle it uses for licensing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 22:49
|
|
|
My work is entirely like a thousand VMs
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 22:50
|
|
|
nullfunction posted:It's also got a special Also, LOL if you've never worked for a company that has their accounting database on a nicotine-brown 386 era PC that runs in a corner with no monitor, can't be replaced because there's no compatible replacement, and has mission critical finance data that no one knows how to migrate, so it can't be decommed. It was hooked up to an APC, but the two years I was there, no one ever tested the battery or made any plans to fix it. They ended up moving buildings after I left, and I wonder if they ever solved for that piece of poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 22:50
|
|
|
Dirt Road Junglist posted:Also, LOL if you've never worked for a company that has their accounting database on a nicotine-brown 386 era PC that runs in a corner with no monitor, can't be replaced because there's no compatible replacement, and has mission critical finance data that no one knows how to migrate, so it can't be decommed. It was hooked up to an APC, but the two years I was there, no one ever tested the battery or made any plans to fix it. If it's like my company, the people responsible for the system ignore every warning that the building is being decommissioned starting a year in advance, then panic and scramble on the supposed closing date and start working, delaying the building from closing for 6 months.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 22:55
|
|
|
Alright fair fucks to the above. I guess I meant is there any reason an app currently being built would need it lol
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 23:06
|
|
|
ChubbyThePhat posted:Alright fair fucks to the above. I guess I meant is there any reason an app currently being built would need it lol There are lots of bad reasons, usually related to shortsighted design. There are a handful of good reasons like needing kernel access or hardware interfaces.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 23:08
|
|
|
Dirt Road Junglist posted:Also, LOL if you've never worked for a company that has their accounting database on a nicotine-brown 386 era PC that runs in a corner with no monitor, can't be replaced because there's no compatible replacement, and has mission critical finance data that no one knows how to migrate, so it can't be decommed. It was hooked up to an APC, but the two years I was there, no one ever tested the battery or made any plans to fix it. This was my place of employment when I got hired on as an accountant. After I had been there a month, there was a loud pop from the (not quite 386 era but still ancient) accounting server as capacitor gave up on the motherboard. The rest of the staff took an early lunch because they couldn't work. By the time they got back I had yanked the HDD out of the server, slapped it into a spare workstation and had the thing back up and running. That's how I became the IT guy on the spot. 2 years later I P2Ved that fucker. . . . It's still on my ESXi host. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 23:21
|
|
|
The Fool posted:Here, let me introduce you to this random LoB app that has been in use for the last 20 years. It is updated regularly but will never receive a major architectural change and two thirds of our business relies on it working. I'd wonder if we work together if this wasn't such a common story. We have VM'ed software that you described well except for the "regular updates" since they fired the devs who made it 12 years prior and now have Tata fiddle with it now and then. And since half the business is on Win7 still and it won't run on Win10. Our other LoB is going to move to The  . Which will be exciting to see what new and wondrous ways that will break.I should put  on it not working at all on launch due to firewall issues.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2020 23:23
|
|
|
ChubbyThePhat posted:Is there generally a reason an app would need a VM instead of just a container? I don't trust our container environment any farther than I could throw the chucklefuck who built it (poorly) and is no longer here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 00:07
|
|
|
AlexDeGruven posted:I don't trust our container environment any farther than I could throw the chucklefuck who built it (poorly) and is no longer here. The Fool posted:There are lots of bad reasons,
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 00:26
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:It's also got a special parallel port dongle it uses for licensing. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 01:15
|
|
|
AlexDeGruven posted:I don't trust our container environment any farther than I could throw the chucklefuck who built it (poorly) and is no longer here. If you know enough to say it’s built poorly then build one properly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 01:22
|
|
|
Sickening posted:If you know enough to say it’s built poorly then build one properly. Not my area. Large orgs are different (we're almost 2k). I know it's built poorly because it's down all the loving time and the builder is a known chucklefuck. Just because I can observe when poo poo is broken doesn't mean I have the skills or inclination to take it on myself, along with the other hundred plus AIX lpars that I am the primary responsibility for, and which literally run the core of the business. AlexDeGruven fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Feb 6, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 01:34
|
|
|
I work in a place where for every silly application a VM is spun up. I thought of maybe doing some containering with those, but it's all pets - that need way to much love and/or crash all the time and/or are from the 90ies - and none of it cattle. So I'm not even sure if those good subjects to build a container environment with. Not that my boss would allow that or my coworkers support that idea because it's too complicated.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 10:49
|
|
|
Yeah, the "just container it!" mentality that is part of why our EE environment is such a poo poo show. Fortunately, I don't have anything running in containers here. I'm a legacy systems person so I still use a fuckton of (really expensive) physical hosts and VMs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 14:26
|
|
|
AlexDeGruven posted:Yeah, the "just container it!" mentality that is part of why our EE environment is such a poo poo show. Are you actually glad you are running old expensive legacy poo poo? Jfc Goons, dig up
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 14:31
|
|
|
Sickening posted:Are you actually glad you are running old expensive legacy poo poo? Jfc I work with extremely large high-performance computing systems that have more horsepower than a lot of people can wrap their heads around. So, yeah, I am. Not everything is a loving container, kids.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 14:46
|
|
|
AlexDeGruven posted:I work with extremely large high-performance computing systems that have more horsepower than a lot of people can wrap their heads around. Its like the IT version lift kits and truck nuts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 14:57
|
|
|
Sickening posted:Its like the IT version lift kits and truck nuts. Or, you know, IT and UNIX engineering has been around longer than containers and devops. It's great that you have such a hardon for things like that, but your making GBS threads on platforms that literally still make the world run is pretty naive and willfully ignorant.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 15:00
|
|
|
the network team runs AWX in front of ansible. They couldn't figure out how to containerize AWX so they spun it up as a VM. It borked the other day. They spent a few hours trying to fix it and eventually went through a restore from backup. The network team lead asked me how painful it is for me to support all of my apps that I've written. Everything I do is containerized with my own helm charts, so redeploying takes seconds. He looked a little sad that his team is still loving around with vms when adjacent teams don't have any of their issues.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 15:02
|
|
|
AlexDeGruven posted:Or, you know, IT and UNIX engineering has been around longer than containers and devops. Pots lines and faxing still makes the world go round and you won't see me getting excited for it either.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 15:06
|
|
|
Judge Schnoopy posted:the network team runs AWX in front of ansible. They couldn't figure out how to containerize AWX so they spun it up as a VM. It borked the other day. They spent a few hours trying to fix it and eventually went through a restore from backup. I TRIED to run AWX in a VM and it was excruciating. Letting the containerized system set itself up was a breeze. If your apps are written for containers, that's awesome.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 15:06
|
|
|
Sickening posted:Pots lines and faxing still makes the world go round and you won't see me getting excited for it either. It was a bad analogy. But it's also still true. And guess what? That poo poo still needs to be maintained. The stuff I work with is tied in with the bleeding edge in computing power, the same processors that run the largest supercomputers in the world. The technology involved there is extremely exciting, even if the actual workloads I manage are not. I'm not making GBS threads on containers as a technology. I think it's great. I just resent the idea that the big-iron is inferior because the systems that run on it work differently.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 15:09
|
|
|
AlexDeGruven posted:I just resent the idea that the big-iron is inferior because the systems that run on it work differently. Expensive old legacy poo poo is exactly what companies want to get away from and not something I would want to tie my own career to anymore. Again, I am glad you really enjoy it, its just not for me. There are on prem exchange admins out there that love their job too I am sure. What is the point of buying tons of horsepower if you can't even do anything interesting with it? Sickening fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Feb 6, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 15:28
|
|
|
Sickening posted:If you know enough to say it’s built poorly then build one properly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 15:43
|
|
|
Sickening posted:What is the point of buying tons of horsepower if you can't even do anything interesting with it? Define interesting. What's interesting for me may not be for others. Diving deep into performance metrics and working directly with the hardware/OS manufacturer to squeeze every drop of performance out of a system is EXTREMELY interesting for me. When you're working with systems with sub-millisecond latencies and looking at how to best tweak your workload to exploit the physical layout on silicon of the core-to-cache links, that's the kind of stuff that makes me excited to go to work and ignore the lovely leadership in my org. If I wasn't doing this, I'd be working on high-frequency trading systems which take all of this to an even more staggeringly deep level.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 15:52
|
|
|
I think we have more VMs than employees at a relatively small company. We should just give every employee their own server, hand 'em out like Oprah.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 16:36
|
|
|
Is that not how you do VMs? That's how we do VMs. It's miserable. Sometimes I miss my old sysadmin days, and sometimes I could not be happier to have escaped.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 16:44
|
|
|
If you want a vision of the future, imagine Big Iron stepping on a face, forever
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 16:54
|
|
|
I feel like some of you are doing VM's wrong.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 18:11
|
|
|
Weaponized Autism posted:I think we have more VMs than employees at a relatively small company. We should just give every employee their own server, hand 'em out like Oprah. I was thinking of something like that. We deployed a large amount of HP Elitedesk PCs to both users and as television displays for slideshows or dynamic graphs. Each desktop is like $600-800 and is just using PowerPoint. Feel like we could buy thin clients, point them at a VM and save a bunch of money, nobody agreed with me though 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 18:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 04:06 |
|
|
AlexDeGruven posted:I TRIED to run AWX in a VM and it was excruciating. Letting the containerized system set itself up was a breeze. Then again, I share part of the blame for 
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2020 19:22
|
|
