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Darth Walrus posted:I do enjoy how we haven't actually seen this Clayface do much actual evil. He's just a superpowered actor who works for supervillains. When you're trying to make it as an actor you need something to pay the bills that's either got flexible hours or you can drop in an instant for an audition. Supervillainy fits the bill pretty well.
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Feb 10, 2020 15:43
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Randaconda posted:This should be the canon version of Clayface and Shark I hope rather upbeat and happy, computer savvy and self-effacing King Shark becomes at least his default personality from her on out, even if future variations in newer shows and/or comics want to use him in a different context too, yeah. It's just such a charming juxtaposition, especially when he walks around in fairly mundane outfits despite the fact he's a big shark man. It's not unprecedented for popular versions of characters from cartoons to become the default version of them either, given Mr. Freeze's history.
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Feb 10, 2020 20:07
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Also kind of funny how the show positions Poison Ivy as someone who has a point in what she's doing and isn't really a supervillain.
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Feb 10, 2020 21:33
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muscles like this! posted:Also kind of funny how the show positions Poison Ivy as someone who has a point in what she's doing and isn't really a supervillain. As far as Batman villains go, pretty much everybody on the team would be way down the list, since none of them are total sociopaths and/or complete monsters. Hell, even in the comics, Ivy and Harley are barely villains half the time. Which reminds me, I shouid re-read Gotham City Sirens to see if it's as good as I remember.
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Feb 10, 2020 21:49
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Randaconda posted:As far as Batman villains go, pretty much everybody on the team would be way down the list, since none of them are total sociopaths and/or complete monsters. Hell, even in the comics, Ivy and Harley are barely villains half the time. So long as you skip the "Sister Zero" arc... 
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Feb 10, 2020 21:53
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Randaconda posted:As far as Batman villains go, pretty much everybody on the team would be way down the list, since none of them are total sociopaths and/or complete monsters. Hell, even in the comics, Ivy and Harley are barely villains half the time.
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Feb 10, 2020 22:07
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cant cook creole bream posted:Psycho is still kind of a douchebag. But he's no Batman villain, I guess. Psycho shows up in Gail Simone's Plastic Man mini series. He tries fronting on Amazo, and... it doesn't go well. Incidentally, if you like this show, you'd probably like that book. Adult themes and humor (Plas's day job is bouncer for a superhero-themed strip club), and Harley... kind of makes an appearance. Plus a really strong message on the side about LGBTQ rights (I don't wanna give away too much). Which is ironic because one single panel got a whole lot of shade thrown at it when it first came out, and if you stuck around to read it, it's blatantly apparent that Simone is not queer-phobic in any way. I hope all the people frothing about that one drawing actually took the time to keep reading and were all "boy is my face red!" It's funny as hell and the art's really nice, too.
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Feb 10, 2020 22:42
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BIG HEADLINE posted:So long as you skip the "Sister Zero" arc... What was wrong with it, I can't remember? 
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Feb 10, 2020 22:53
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muscles like this! posted:Also kind of funny how the show positions Poison Ivy as someone who has a point in what she's doing and isn't really a supervillain. I hope Swamp Thing shows up in a subsequent season and Ivy's just super pissed at him because when he busts heads in the name of the environment, he's considered a hero and when she does it, she's a villain.
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Feb 11, 2020 04:32
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Randaconda posted:What was wrong with it, I can't remember? It was disjointed, the art was janky, and the end of it made little to no sense unless you were reading like eight other books to explain the plot. Try as I might, I couldn't care about Selina Kyle's crazy/traumatized sister and the vengeful angel who nose-hosed her with his 'essence' and turned her into a metahuman that's capable of going blade to claw with Catwoman from nothing. The character I wanted more of in Gotham City Sirens was Jenna Duffy. She totally belongs in this series.  
BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Feb 11, 2020 |
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Feb 11, 2020 04:49
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I like how Poison Ivy isn't actually doing anything the Planeteers wouldn't have done. The one time we see her executing a plan of her own she's taking out some Captain Planet levels of cartoonishly environment-unfriendly capitalists.
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Feb 11, 2020 05:27
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Gimmick Account posted:but we can't have the offspring actually react to them as such and will play it for laughs instead, because family values in television'. That's pretty daring for a work of Western animation, even nowadays. The credit sequence for The Quinzells has some amazingly hosed up stuff in it. And then the reality of the situation is so much worse. It's Married With Children on a baaaad acid trip.
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Feb 11, 2020 07:40
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Xander77 posted:I mean, Batman: TAS was good, but it wasn't consistently this good. Between Batman:TAS and Harley Quinn, really only Young Justice stands at their level.
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Feb 11, 2020 07:50
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mllaneza posted:The credit sequence for The Quinzells has some amazingly hosed up stuff in it. And then the reality of the situation is so much worse. It's Married With Children on a baaaad acid trip. Still say it's basically if Al and Peg Bundy were real people and the kind of consequences you'd get from their parenting.
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Feb 11, 2020 08:07
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muscles like this! posted:Also kind of funny how the show positions Poison Ivy as someone who has a point in what she's doing and isn't really a supervillain. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Feb 11, 2020 |
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Feb 11, 2020 08:13
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mllaneza posted:Between Batman:TAS and Harley Quinn, really only Young Justice stands at their level. Maybe early Young Justice (and even then) the later seasons are not at all great.
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Feb 11, 2020 14:10
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Toplowtech posted:To be honest real life is a lot like an episode of Captain Planet but without Captain Planet. I mean that Australian female billionaire wanted to nuke a port to make it a deep sea port. I think we can all accept the fact that Ivy fight for a good cause even if we don't agree with her methods. I'm not even sure that she has much of a choice when it comes to her methods. She doesn't belong in the Legion of Doom - That's obvious. But I don't think the Justice League would be a good fit for her, either. Batman/Bruce Wayne is a billionaire who owns an industrial conglomerate, Superman/Clark Kent works for a typical centrist major newspaper, etc. - They'll gladly save the world from immediate harm, but they're not otherwise going to rock the boat. Ivy will find no allies among the established powers on either side. Good thing that she doesn't let those hopeless odds deter her. In fact, the showrunners seem to be working under the unspoken premise of Ivy being the moral conscience of the series, which I like very much.
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Feb 11, 2020 16:19
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Man, superheroes are just harder and harder to believe in modern times. Superman needs to suck up excess carbon in the atmosphere and poo poo diamonds, while Batman fights third world slavery by night while breaking down the economic situation that leads to it as Bruce Wayne. Someone post that SMBC about how the most good Superman can do is turn a giant crank to provide clean power. Or the elseworlds where Batman targets dangerous criminals, then Dr Wayne treats patients at Arkham in the 1800s with the then cutting edge science of talking to them.
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Feb 11, 2020 16:32
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Elfface posted:
Ugh, you just reminded me of DK2, where everything's great now that we have clean, renewable energy! ...thanks to The Flash locked up and running a giant hamster wheel.  Poor Barry.
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Feb 11, 2020 17:34
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Elfface posted:Man, superheroes are just harder and harder to believe in modern times. Superman needs to suck up excess carbon in the atmosphere and poo poo diamonds, while Batman fights third world slavery by night while breaking down the economic situation that leads to it as Bruce Wayne. Batman just makes more sense as a capitalist, conservative douchenozzle than as any kind of left-leaning hero to the poor. Almost all his villains are victims of the system to some degree, and he's a trust-fund baby who goes around beating the piss out of people as a solution to crime because one bad thing happened to him in his whole life.
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Feb 11, 2020 19:15
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tsob posted:Batman just makes more sense as a capitalist, conservative douchenozzle than as any kind of left-leaning hero to the poor. Almost all his villains are victims of the system to some degree, and he's a trust-fund baby who goes around beating the piss out of people as a solution to crime because one bad thing happened to him in his whole life. With his villains, it depends onhow they're spun as to whether they're victims of the system or active agents in the exploitation of others for their own gain. The Penguin, Hush and Mad Hatter are definitely individuals who deliberately engage in their villainy and don't have much to excuse their actions with or some higher moral justification.
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Feb 11, 2020 20:51
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To Batman's credit, he does show a degree of empathy for his villains and does try to help them when he can.
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Feb 11, 2020 20:55
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Gimmick Account posted:I'm not even sure that she has much of a choice when it comes to her methods. She doesn't belong in the Legion of Doom - That's obvious. But I don't think the Justice League would be a good fit for her, either. Batman/Bruce Wayne is a billionaire who owns an industrial conglomerate, Superman/Clark Kent works for a typical centrist major newspaper, etc. - They'll gladly save the world from immediate harm, but they're not otherwise going to rock the boat. Ivy will find no allies among the established powers on either side.
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Feb 11, 2020 21:28
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tsob posted:Batman just makes more sense as a capitalist, conservative douchenozzle than as any kind of left-leaning hero to the poor. Almost all his villains are victims of the system to some degree, and he's a trust-fund baby who goes around beating the piss out of people as a solution to crime because one bad thing happened to him in his whole life. That can depend on the adaptation. In the 90s animated series Batman eventually became less of a crime fighter and more of a superhero parole officer who really wants his charges to become better people but who has an obligation to arrest them if they start breaking laws again.
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Feb 11, 2020 22:34
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OG Wonder Woman also had a really cool take as the hero who empathises with and redeems her villains through the power of love and compassion which has been totally tossed away in modern times in favour of making her the one that loves killing the most.
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Feb 11, 2020 22:51
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SimonCat posted:I like how the Legion of Doom is basically the Hall of Justice from Super Friends. Quoting from a long while back, but I just have to say I appreciate the LoD having lots of parking. Even if they don't validate.
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Feb 11, 2020 23:01
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Catfishenfuego posted:OG Wonder Woman also had a really cool take as the hero who empathises with and redeems her villains through the power of love and compassion which has been totally tossed away in modern times in favour of making her the one that loves killing the most. Well, love and compassion and BDSM.
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Feb 12, 2020 00:26
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Darth Walrus posted:Well, love and compassion and BDSM. That can be part of the love and compassion 
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Feb 12, 2020 00:41
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Argue posted:I like how Poison Ivy isn't actually doing anything the Planeteers wouldn't have done. The one time we see her executing a plan of her own she's taking out some Captain Planet levels of cartoonishly environment-unfriendly capitalists. Well, except when she dissolved the CEO of Monsanto in a vat of Round Up.
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Feb 12, 2020 01:50
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SimonCat posted:I just realized how Kite Man's arc is going to end. Frank is going to eat Kite Man. This seems really relevant this week.
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Feb 12, 2020 01:56
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SimonCat posted:Well, except when she dissolved the CEO of Monsanto in a vat of Round Up. Like they said, taking out cartoonishly evil antagonists.
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Feb 12, 2020 01:57
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Catfishenfuego posted:OG Wonder Woman also had a really cool take as the hero who empathises with and redeems her villains through the power of love and compassion which has been totally tossed away in modern times in favour of making her the one that loves killing the most. They've basically gone back on that after Rebirth. The latest WW has a short where she's defending civilians against a raging Silver Swan and basically talks her down.
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Feb 12, 2020 02:49
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I enjoyed the panel where Ivy basically emasculates Batman by telling him she barely considers him an enemy or adversary anymore, since she recognizes she could end him so easily. But we couldn't have that so they made her all  Batman again shortly afterward.
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Feb 12, 2020 06:24
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Hell, I just finished playing Arkham Knight, and she's an outright hero in that. She sacrifices herself to save a giant tree that can neutralize Scarecrow's city-wide fear gas, all while taking out drones to help Batman fight. Sarcastic Daria Ivy is Best Ivy.
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Feb 12, 2020 10:15
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Catfishenfuego posted:OG Wonder Woman also had a really cool take as the hero who empathises with and redeems her villains through the power of love and compassion which has been totally tossed away in modern times in favour of making her the one that loves killing the most. I haven't read much Wonder Woman, but I read a bit of Gail Simone's run a decade or so back and I really enjoyed her take on Wonder Woman at least, since while she was still a warrior she also displayed a lot of empathy for the people she fought and tried to help them despite the conflict. I liked the juxtaposition it presented between her as this fantastic warrior constantly called to arms but who just wished to help people through empathy and compassion, and struggling to fit one in with the other since fighting was her duty and responsibility but peaceful measures were how she generally wished to end things. She finished most conflicts with violence, but was compassionate enough with those she fought that it often made allies out of former enemies. Killer robot posted:Quoting from a long while back, but I just have to say I appreciate the LoD having lots of parking. Even if they don't validate. I'm just surprised the entire car park isn't filled with disabled and mother/baby spots, so the Legion can feel like extra dicks every time they park in a spot they technically shouldn't be using. BIG HEADLINE posted:I enjoyed the panel where Ivy basically emasculates Batman by telling him she barely considers him an enemy or adversary anymore, since she recognizes she could end him so easily. But we couldn't have that so they made her all I haven't read whatever comic that is, but "villain smugly stating they are above hero and then being proven wrong by the hero" is a staple of fiction and you could probably find examples in stories that are literal millenia old.
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Feb 12, 2020 19:49
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tsob posted:I haven't read whatever comic that is, but "villain smugly stating they are above hero and then being proven wrong by the hero" is a staple of fiction and you could probably find examples in stories that are literal millenia old. From 2006:  Seems like our new Ivy is following this MO.
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Feb 12, 2020 20:03
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I don't see anything emasculating or indicative of a view that Batman is beneath her in that page, but then, it might be in successive pages I guess. Still, while there's no hint of smugness there, there's no hint of a view that she could easily best Batman either and it seems more like she's just decided that Batman himself is no longer a goal and instead an obstacle to her true goal. If anything, that seems like it's painting her as someone who just has no desire to fight Batman at all and refocusing on other things that she's lost sight of over the years.
tsob fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 20:30
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tsob posted:I don't see anything emasculating or indicative of a view that Batman is beneath her in that page, but then, it might be in successive pages I guess. Still, while there's no hint of smugness there, there's no hint of a view that she could easily best Batman either and it seems more like she's just decided that Batman himself is no longer a goal and instead an obstacle to her true goal. If anything, that seems like it's painting her as someone who just has no desire to fight Batman at all and refocusing on other things that she's lost sight of over the years. iirc ivy is on the same power level as swamp thing and swamp thing is on a power tier so off the scale nobody in the DCU dares to gently caress with him like he's "every blade of grass, every leaf that ever falls from any tree ever again will cut you, and only you, like a razor blade. this is reality now." levels of petty and vindictive. Just every living piece of fauna on the planet holding a sci fi grudge for eternity EDIT: theres also a funny little comic I cant find now that's a photoshopped text msg convo between Jim Gordon and Batman JIM: Bats! it's Ivy! she's attacking oil execs at a climate summit! BM: Ohh, yeah, I've sort of loosened the reins on her lately, she's doing better work than me JIM: bwaaaaa its better written than that, but I cant find it right now bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 21:08
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Okay? The entire point of Batman in the popular imagination though is that he can literally best anyone or anything with sufficient preparation and/or tools. At least for the last few decades. He's beaten intergalactic Gods, so while all that sounds terrifying, it's also not outside his wheelhouse to upset that kind of power curve regardless and it's also not something villains like Ivy have reason to be ignorant of.
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Feb 12, 2020 21:13
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tsob posted:Okay? The entire point of Batman in the popular imagination though is that he can literally best anyone or anything with sufficient preparation and/or tools. At least for the last few decades. He's beaten intergalactic Gods, so while all that sounds terrifying, it's also not outside his wheelhouse to upset that kind of power curve regardless and it's also not something villains like Ivy have reason to be ignorant of.
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Feb 12, 2020 22:01
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