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Quote of the week: "What the hell?" (Hank Fillmore) Some thoughts: One amazing aspect of the Return is that every set feels so intricate. Take Buella's place for example. It's such a specific vision with all these little details. I can't fathom why Darya and Ray hand in cards as they're leaving, or what Otis is doing, but the place feels meaningful, lived-in. Of course, on the flip side, we get these lists of character names like Chip and Harvey that are seemingly just there to overwhelm us with unhelpful information. Like, the cops put some effort into trying to make sense of who has the key, and it turns out to be a complete waste of time. That box is pretty much identical in shape to the cameras surrounding it. It's like a giant camera being watched by a bunch of cameras. Very meta. I've read a few theories as to what the symbol on Tracey's coffee means. I think it's a Z. Tray-Z. 'Cause she's carrying the cups on a tray, see?  The scene in which Mr. C talks to Darya and Ray at the diner starts in the most peculiar way. We first see a railroad crossing, and a freight train passes by, blowing its horn. Then we cut to the diner, and for the entire duration of the scene, you can hear the train in the background, finally culminating in the horn blowing for a second time right before the scene ends. It remind me of that one log lady intro about death masks in which she says: "[W]ho could throw away the casting of a loved one […] as the distant freight train blows its mournful tone." I guess we, too, are letting that shadow of nostalgia take us down with it, no matter how unhealthy it may be. Interesting that Cooper seems to accept advice from both the giant and the (evolution of the) arm. I guess everyone's collaborating to get the doppelgänger back to the lodge. What is that gross lump in Bill Hasting's car? The conspiracy theory guy thought it was a chunk of trout, but the upset reaction of the cops kinda doesn't fit that interpretation. It's like the ear from Blue Velvet, except you can't even tell what it's meant to be. Renee's claim that "everybody loves Steven" is extremely confusing to me in hindsight. I don't think we see Steven be charming even once. Rageaholic posted:e: Dr. Amp's golden shovels! Are we still bothering with spoiler tags for people who haven't seen the show? Doesn't seem like there's anyone posting who hasn't seen it. Could I get screenshots of: - the horse - Cooper falling in space, faster and faster? And More fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Feb 16, 2020 |
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Feb 16, 2020 08:33
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 19:41 |
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"James has always been cool."
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Feb 16, 2020 08:38
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And More posted:Are we still bothering with spoiler tags for people who haven't seen the show? Doesn't seem like there's anyone posting who hasn't seen it.   Lemme know if those are okay. It was really hard to get a half decent screenshot of that 2nd one. Works much better in video form haha
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Feb 16, 2020 09:41
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Rageaholic posted:Yeah, you're right. Guess we can drop the spoiler tag rule. Perfect. That will make talking about some stuff much easier in the upcoming episodes. quote:Lemme know if those are okay. It was really hard to get a half decent screenshot of that 2nd one. Works much better in video form haha I can imagine. I like 'em both, though. It captures the chaotic essence of that scene. Could you take another one of the other angle? The one from which we can see what Cooper's seeing?
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Feb 16, 2020 09:59
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And More posted:I can imagine. I like 'em both, though. It captures the chaotic essence of that scene. Could you take another one of the other angle? The one from which we can see what Cooper's seeing? 
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Feb 16, 2020 10:06
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Rageaholic posted:Like this? Yes. That's the one. Thank you! 
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Feb 16, 2020 10:09
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God God God God God gently caress me gently caress I remembered that The Return was fantastic but I forgot just HOW fantastic. Those first two parts just flew by and I had to fight a very real compulsion just to keep going and power through all 18 episodes in a row. Seeing everything that was done so well a quarter of a century earlier refined to perfection is just a treat, especially the Lodge which is just glorious: the floors, the curtains, the doubling of the image, the curtains lifting to reveal infinite blackness, the further realization that past and future are meaningless concepts here (the snap back to Mike asking Cooper if it is past or future is done so loving well), seeing the alternating colored zig-zag lines are actually more than surface deep, Cooper falling through space faster and faster just like Laura and Donna discussed in Fire Walk With Me, the Arm's doppelganger hiding in the shape of a statue to ambush Cooper before he could escape, the person who looks like Laura opening her face to reveal a blinding white light beneath (contrast with what I think happens in episode 17 with Sarah Palmer). I love that Cooper continues to move linearly (and age in real time), he is the only person who doesn't speak backwards, Leland and Laura look like Leland and Laura but they are (I presume) simply Lodge Residents wearing those shapes, knowing that they're not who they look like (or that if they were, they're beyond that now) but feeling like they almost might be, hence Laura saying she only feels like she almost knows Laura Palmer, before answering the question of who she is with,"I am Laura Palmer". None of this even touches everything else going on in these first two parts, and there is SO much going on, it's insane. Hawk, The Log Lady, Ben and Jerry still a double-act even if they've taken wildly different routes, Andy and Lucy older but otherwise unchanged, James is still cool, the Bang Bang Bar is a TARDIS, the Woodsman in the cells, the comedy of the neighbor who called the cops etc. And Bad Cooper (Coopelganger? Booper? Mr. C?) is so fantastic, McLachlan gives him such incredible menace. I love how grimey he looks, how dirty and revolting and unclean he is. Also his computer is wonderful, because it feels so much like he's created/accessed something that a Lodge Resident feels adequately represents a computer, but all he does is type literal gibberish on the keyboard and it kinda just does what he thinks it should: access the database, download blueprints etc. It's technology by way of magic (there's no excuse for how hilariously cheap the Buckhorn PD's computer UI is though  ) and it makes Mr. C feel even more alien and unsettling.There's only 16 more episodes left 
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Feb 16, 2020 11:30
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I love how lovely the cut is when Mike disappears in the Red Room the first time he asks about future/past The camera doesn’t even stay in the same place 
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Feb 16, 2020 11:35
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Jerusalem posted:I love that Cooper continues to move linearly (and age in real time), he is the only person who doesn't speak backwards, Leland and Laura look like Leland and Laura but they are (I presume) simply Lodge Residents wearing those shapes, knowing that they're not who they look like (or that if they were, they're beyond that now) but feeling like they almost might be, hence Laura saying she only feels like she almost knows Laura Palmer, before answering the question of who she is with,"I am Laura Palmer". That first part of the conversation is basically a word for word reiteration of the dream sequence from the original run. Compared to the original scene, Laura seems a lot stiffer, I kind of read her expression as concealed resentment. Is she maybe not Laura Palmer but Carrie Page? quote:It's technology by way of magic (there's no excuse for how hilariously cheap the Buckhorn PD's computer UI is though Technology in general feels slightly off in pretty much every way. Like Hank Fillmore and his comically oversized phone. And More fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Feb 16, 2020 |
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Feb 16, 2020 11:52
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I love Laura giggling when she whispers into Coop's ear, especially with his startled reaction to what she's saying. It reminded me a little of her goading Bobby asking if he killed Mike in FWWM. Also one thing I felt a little unclear on and can't remember if they resolve it later, but who was that on the other end of the phone when Mr. C was trying to contact Phillip Jeffries? He said he was going to be back with Bob again once Mr. C was forced back to the Lodge, but I didn't recognize the voice, I don't think it was Mike or Leland.
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Feb 16, 2020 12:02
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Jerusalem posted:I love Laura giggling when she whispers into Coop's ear, especially with his startled reaction to what she's saying. It reminded me a little of her goading Bobby asking if he killed Mike in FWWM. Yeah, that's when she behaves like the actual Laura again. Jerusalem posted:Also one thing I felt a little unclear on and can't remember if they resolve it later, but who was that on the other end of the phone when Mr. C was trying to contact Phillip Jeffries? He said he was going to be back with Bob again once Mr. C was forced back to the Lodge, but I didn't recognize the voice, I don't think it was Mike or Leland. The consensus at the time seemed to be that it's Judy. And More fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Feb 16, 2020 |
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Feb 16, 2020 12:08
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Jerusalem posted:Also his computer is wonderful, because it feels so much like he's created/accessed something that a Lodge Resident feels adequately represents a computer, but all he does is type literal gibberish on the keyboard and it kinda just does what he thinks it should: access the database, download blueprints etc.
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Feb 16, 2020 12:28
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And More posted:
So, Judy wants to be with Bob? And how has Bad Coop already met Judy? And who is the Philip that called Ray? Mike is actually credited as Philip Gerard. Did he call Ray? Jeffries denies that he did.
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Feb 16, 2020 12:34
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AstroWhale posted:So, Judy wants to be with Bob? And how has Bad Coop already met Judy? Yeah, it's strange that the two of them would be fighting over who gets to keep Bob. You'd think Judy and the doppelgänger would be on the same side. Maybe not. You're referring to the conversation between Jeffries and the doppelgänger way down the line, right? I think there are a few things to keep in mind. For one, Jeffries can't tell the Coopers apart, so it's just one of them who has met Judy before. Doesn't he confirm that he called Ray in that scene? Maybe we should wait for that moment to come up, I can't actually remember it super clearly. 
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Feb 16, 2020 14:09
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^Yeah he, did actually. But it was not revealed what was said.
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Feb 16, 2020 14:50
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Holy poo poo I didn't realize Also I kinda love how decor-wise, the Palmer house is exactly the same as it was in 1991, except a) fallen into decrepitude with Sarah, and b) there's a giant 80" flatscreen TV for her to watch red-in-tooth-and-claw nature documentaries
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Feb 16, 2020 15:05
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I remember the thread at the time and I don’t think we ever clearly answered who the voice on the phone was. It could be Mike, but the line about being with Bob again is confusing as heck. gently caress THE RETURN IS SO GOOD
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Feb 16, 2020 15:13
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Feb 16, 2020 15:28
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Volte posted:
Not that I disagree but you're ascribing literal symbolism into his work while at the same time saying it doesn't exist. And I guess I do agree. Both are true.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:45
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The Walrus posted:Not that I disagree but you're ascribing literal symbolism into his work while at the same time saying it doesn't exist. And I guess I do agree. Both are true.
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Feb 16, 2020 16:21
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I'm using literal symbolism in the same way you're using allegorical, I think. The idea that a scene could be a Rosetta stone implies a translation, a one to one of allegorical input -> meaningful output. And I don't disagree that's what he's doing there, I just think it's funny that Lynch is saying 'here is one metaphorical explanation for how to read my work; there is no one metaphorical explanation for how to read my work'
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Feb 16, 2020 16:59
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The Walrus posted:I'm using literal symbolism in the same way you're using allegorical, I think. The idea that a scene could be a Rosetta stone implies a translation, a one to one of allegorical input -> meaningful output. And I don't disagree that's what he's doing there, I just think it's funny that Lynch is saying 'here is one metaphorical explanation for how to read my work; there is no one metaphorical explanation for how to read my work' To put it in a larger perspective, my read on Twin Peaks as a whole is that thematically it's a response to the fear that crept into the zeitgeist from the 1950s onward, when the threat of nuclear annihilation was looming and the coinciding proliferation of radio and television helped spread that fear around. (edit: to give credit where it's due, this is very broadly speaking something I picked up from the Twin Perfect theory video, but that video goes way, way too in depth in trying to interpret every little thing as being part of one huge allegorical framework). I know we're talking about not assigning allegorical meaning to Lynch's stuff, but Mark Frost referred to Episode 8 as an origin story, and that description fits pretty well if you interpret it as being about the origin of the show itself: quote:The idea obviously — or, well, not obviously — was that we'd never done anything close to what you might describe as a "Twin Peaks" origin story, [showing] where this pervasive sense of darkness and evil had come from. I was probably a bit hard on Sam earlier, but I still think he and Chet are basically the yin and yang of investigation - analysis and intuition - and that one of those is way more effective for thinking about Lynch's dream world than the other. I'm pretty sure I've read that Chet was originally just supposed to be Cooper but Kyle MacLachlan wanted fewer scenes so Chet was added, and that makes a lot of sense. Cooper is practically the embodiment of intuition as an investigative tool. Volte fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Feb 16, 2020 |
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Feb 16, 2020 20:15
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We should watch that Twin Perfect video ITT after we're done with season 3. It'd be interesting to see what kind of analysis they come up with with season 3 fresh in our minds.
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Feb 16, 2020 22:40
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Are those small red drapes? No, but they look like it. It's weird how the hotel scene interrupts the conversation with the tree.  Where does Cooper go here?  Is there another lodge?  What is wrong?  What did he do?  
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Feb 18, 2020 11:28
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Ben and Jerry: He's got the pine weasel in his office! Also, 100% the skunk smell that the hotel guest complained about was Jerry smoking weed and Jerry is the "skunk". And what's the little statue by the window behind Jerry? Is this the same statue that's by Margaret's lamp. Lucy and the insurance salesman: I never caught this before (and maybe this is obvious and I'm just dumb), but this is actually two scenes stitched together as one. I'd always seen this as a continuous scene with the agent getting increasingly flustered by Lucy, but now I'm pretty sure before the last "I'm here to see Sheriff Truman" we start of a replay of the whole scene and you see a tiny bit of movement of the agent coming in from opening the door. He's got a much more rushed demeanor in the second part, like it's either a totally separate timeline or he's gone out after the first exchange with Lucy and knows now not to ask questions but just give the card and get the heck out. Also is Lucy nodding off at the beginning of this scene? Theres' a weird screeching noise at the end of the scene were Bill Hastings gets put in the cell. Mr. Todd's office gives off some vibes of the glass box. Everything is shiny and reflective, the floor lamp looks a bit like one of the light banks outside the glass box, and at one point there's the bokeh of a red light that seems a little out of place. I don't know the Chromatics, but it almost seems like the musicians don't match the song.
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Feb 18, 2020 19:25
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BetterLekNextTime posted:I don't know the Chromatics, but it almost seems like the musicians don't match the song. Personally I'm surprised The Nine Inch Nails didn't perform one of those languid Lynch songs about flooooooooating in dreeeeeeeeeeams
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Feb 18, 2020 19:48
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Data Graham posted:Personally I'm surprised The Nine Inch Nails didn't perform one of those languid Lynch songs about flooooooooating in dreeeeeeeeeeams quote:In a radio interview, Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross revealed that “She’s Gone Away” was their second stab at writing a song for David Lynch’s Twin Peaks: The Return: quote:You dig in places til your fingers bleed I always thought "she" referred to Laura
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Feb 18, 2020 21:20
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BetterLekNextTime posted:Lucy and the insurance salesman: I never caught this before (and maybe this is obvious and I'm just dumb), but this is actually two scenes stitched together as one. I'd always seen this as a continuous scene with the agent getting increasingly flustered by Lucy, but now I'm pretty sure before the last "I'm here to see Sheriff Truman" we start of a replay of the whole scene and you see a tiny bit of movement of the agent coming in from opening the door. He's got a much more rushed demeanor in the second part, like it's either a totally separate timeline or he's gone out after the first exchange with Lucy and knows now not to ask questions but just give the card and get the heck out. Also is Lucy nodding off at the beginning of this scene? It seems more like it's just the same shot from the start of the scene (maybe an alternate take?). There are a number of shots throughout this season that get repeated and looped. There is certainly the possibility that it's meant to indicate something. I think it's far more likely that Lynch had such a tight schedule that he had to get creative in editing to make some scenes have the right flow, though. Rageaholic posted:I always thought "she" referred to Laura That's a fun detail. I completely agree with that reading. Actually, most songs seem to either be specifically written or at least chosen to match the show in some way. And More fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 18, 2020 22:39
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And More posted:It seems more like it's just the same shot from the start of the scene (maybe an alternate take?). There are a number of shots throughout this season that get repeated and looped. There is certainly the possibility that it's meant to indicate something. I think it's far more likely that Lynch had such a tight schedule that he had to creative in editing to make some scenes have the right flow, though. Yeah, I don't know that the scene has any special meaning besides getting us ready for the new sheriff. I guess if you just think it's a weird scene that's weirdly edited, then it speaks to how the town of Twin Peaks is a little off, and if you think it's a scene that repeats itself, then it's kind of like that end-of-episode diner scene in Ep 7 or 8 where the you see there's two timelines. Or maybe that there's two partially interacting sheriff's stations... Either way, I can't imagine it's unintentional. It really seems to me like it's a separate take with different direction to the actor that's been added to the end. e: I forgot I wanted to mention Daria and Ray. It's really amazing how in their first scene, with the weird ambiance, they look like aliens, like Ray's eyes are too close together and Daria's eyes are way too far apart. But when we see them later in a more normal setting they look way more normal. BetterLekNextTime fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 01:22
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So it turns out Mister C never went back in... https://twitter.com/sewcialism/status/1230471827258040321
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Feb 20, 2020 20:51
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Rageaholic posted:So it turns out Mister C never went back in... Y'know, the Return really is accurate in its portrayal of how utterly hosed our world is. 
And More fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Feb 20, 2020 |
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Feb 20, 2020 21:06
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Rageaholic posted:So it turns out Mister C never went back in... Mr. Jackpots, no!
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Feb 20, 2020 21:10
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Rageaholic posted:So it turns out Mister C never went back in... As the owner of a dog named Cooper, this makes me profoundly sad.
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Feb 20, 2020 21:13
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He must've just fat fingered the like button.
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Feb 20, 2020 21:15
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https://twitter.com/rortybomb/status/1230515298308182016 This made me laugh then made me sad.
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Feb 20, 2020 23:11
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Rageaholic posted:So it turns out Mister C never went back in... 
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Feb 21, 2020 02:04
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Goddamn these people lol
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Feb 21, 2020 03:12
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lmao https://twitter.com/olivia_vault/status/1230693365118898177 Also, episodes 3 and 4 aired together like 1 and 2 did, right? There's a feature length presentation of 3 and 4 on the Blu-Ray. So I guess let's watch both of those tomorrow and then we'll be back to one episode a week after that.
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Feb 21, 2020 22:11
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Rageaholic posted:So I guess let's watch both of those tomorrow  I seriously have to fight the urge to just burn through them all in the weekend, The Return is SO loving good.
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Feb 21, 2020 23:06
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I may or may not have gotten antsy and ended up watching burning through the show much quicker than I was supposed to, oops. To be fair I was also showing the series to friends who had never seen it before we'll be watching Parts 17 and 18 on Sunday, I wonder how they'll take the ending.
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Feb 22, 2020 00:23
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