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Trojan Kaiju posted:
This is cool; I appreciate that they're going with a slower burn to let the characters develop. Much as I want more queer representation in media, I very much prefer when it doesn't feel like tokenism or fan service. Additionally helps to highlight Harley and Ivy are both bi, which is a distinction that also doesn't get enough attention.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 07:11 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:28 |
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also catherine is absolutely just as misogynistic in a japanese context as it is in a western context, but such ideology is more tolerated by japanese's mainstream society.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 10:38 |
RareAcumen posted:Now discorvering that some people call bad cartoons Family Guys like some people call all sodas Coke or your mom calls every console a Nintendo and I Do Not Like It. nobody does that
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 11:03 |
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https://twitter.com/PhilosophyTube/status/1230068583100751873?s=20
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 11:09 |
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https://twitter.com/SamSykesSwears/status/1229948255628230656 Ninja "There's no reason field goal kickers can't make all their kicks unlike Fortnite which is hard and real" Ninjason being Ninja and a fantasy author having the best response.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 12:40 |
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A big flaming stink posted:also catherine is absolutely just as misogynistic in a japanese context as it is in a western context, but such ideology is more tolerated by japanese's mainstream society. what seems to be lost on a lot of Americans is that Japan does in fact have its own feminist and LGBT movements, they’re not just a homogenous conservative cultural blob. also homophobia was largely imported to Japan from the west, because of course it was.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 15:33 |
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A big flaming stink posted:also catherine is absolutely just as misogynistic in a japanese context as it is in a western context, but such ideology is more tolerated by japanese's mainstream society. what time is it? It's 'racism, but woke' time!!!! Whooo! The savage oriental simply is too primitive to understand things, never mind that like half of the conservative bullshit of Japanese society was literally forced on them at gunpoint by the west, they made a game with boobs so they're basically just rape monsters who lynch gays or whatever.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 15:56 |
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My understanding from watching LP's of the original Catherine was that you weren't really supposed to emphasize with the two timing cheater male protagonist and if you did it should cause you to feel shame and the whole thing is about like, exploring the guilt you/the main character feels no? Isn't that part of the point of the questionnaire you do at the end of each level and see where you stand relative to everyone else? Like all the dream sequences are you, and a bunch of other lovely guys, being chased by the anthropomorphic representation of your guilty conscience which is a jungian reflection of your real world actions (cheating on your significant other with a 'cooler hipper' bad girl version of her). At least that's what I got out of it.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 17:16 |
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sexpig by night posted:what time is it? It's 'racism, but woke' time!!!! Whooo! The savage oriental simply is too primitive to understand things, never mind that like half of the conservative bullshit of Japanese society was literally forced on them at gunpoint by the west, they made a game with boobs so they're basically just rape monsters who lynch gays or whatever. No-one is blaming them for having that poo poo imposed on them, but Japan has autonomy now so you absolutely can blame any rear end in a top hat over there who is continuing to be a regressive rear end in a top hat.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 17:16 |
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https://twitter.com/verge/status/1229820921185259520 This would be a bad idea for any content creator yes? Like when you're already making content on a platform constantly changing the rules every year or so, signing up for this with Patreon seems like an even worse stability move for a person. Like it sounds great though if you get a high from anxiety and constant calls from collectors wanting to know where their money is.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 17:26 |
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Bug Squash posted:No-one is blaming them for having that poo poo imposed on them, but Japan has autonomy now so you absolutely can blame any rear end in a top hat over there who is continuing to be a regressive rear end in a top hat. Yeah its really coming across as a convenient excuse to absolve them of the poo poo they do when they can fully stand up and say "no, I wont do this". See people blaming the awful stuff in anime as "They're just APPEALING TO THE WEST cause CAPITALISM" What came first, the anime or the western weebs. The Japanese people aren't a noble savage tribe who have been led astray by white saviors claiming to be in their best interests.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 17:31 |
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Leal posted:What came first, the anime or the western weebs. Western weebs, by about a century...
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 17:32 |
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Viewtiful Jew posted:https://twitter.com/verge/status/1229820921185259520 Also this is a scam
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 17:33 |
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Bug Squash posted:No-one is blaming them for having that poo poo imposed on them, but Japan has autonomy now so you absolutely can blame any rear end in a top hat over there who is continuing to be a regressive rear end in a top hat. no you see but for the West's malign influence, the Eastern man is noble, pure, innocent by nature and incapable of either hatred or conservatism; now let me lecture you about racism (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 17:35 |
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Acting like every bad thing is the fault of 19th century gunboat diplomacy is a pretty narrow way of looking at things. For starters it suggests that western influence was a one-time thing that made everything bad and that there has been no change ever since then. Yes you can look to it as a root cause for many messed up cultural quirks but it also absolves them of any wrongdoings going forward. It's infantilizing to suggest that foreign cultures were all innocent and things only got bad when white people showed up. You see it all the time with regards to American first nations when there is plenty of evidence that they could be giant assholes on their own well before Europeans landed on the shoreline. You can't ignore the impact that colonialism has on the target countries but to suggest that all bad things that ever happen there since are the fault of colonialism is reductive thinking that consciously or not perpetuates white exceptionalism by suggesting that they could only learn to be as bad by emulating us.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 17:49 |
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RareAcumen posted:Now discorvering that some people call bad cartoons Family Guys like some people call all sodas Coke or your mom calls every console a Nintendo and I Do Not Like It. I had a friend who's mom was a gamer and she called bosses "dragons" So she told me about the dragon in the Ocarina of time water temple and I was so disappointed by the actual final boss (absolutely not a dragon). I only caught on later when she talked about the "first and third dragon" in a different dungeon.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 17:57 |
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Frankly, I think the only difference between Japanese and Western culture is that Japan skewers older so boomer behavior and voices still drown out progressives.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 18:01 |
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Dias posted:Frankly, I think the only difference between Japanese and Western culture is that Japan skewers older so boomer behavior and voices still drown out progressives. It's more that the Japanese are even more apathetic when it comes to politics. So while you might have "progressive" people and "regular" people voicing concert on LGBT issues or similar things, that's not translating into voters.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 18:12 |
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The Japanese 60s student movement was wild.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 18:13 |
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MonsieurChoc posted:The Japanese 60s student movement was wild. Once the Japanese do get interested in politics, ooooh boy.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 18:17 |
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Was the mental breakdown when he stanned for Contra and then had to do a Kevin Spacey to try and pacify the backlash?
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 18:19 |
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its not that theyre more apathetic necessarily its just that the left is even more splintered and ineffectual than america's leading to decades of basically continuous center-right rule, which has beaten a lot of people down. like there's plenty of people who are old enough to remember the 60s student protests and how they still arrived at the point they're at now despite all that. at least abe didnt get enough votes to bring back the japanese empire anyway hes not wrong that a lot of japanese homophobia is rooted in christian and american values being distorted as they were brought over, the old japanese view of homosexuality isn't exactly 'woke' but it's pretty different from the 'they all wanna gently caress kids' type conservative stuff you see most of the older right wingers in japan trot out, and its not like they got those opinions in a vacuum. not that homophobia wouldnt exist otherwise but the specific brand and the way its used as a bulwark against other progressive views is 100% rooted in american christianity's cultural footprint
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 18:20 |
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Katt posted:Was the mental breakdown when he stanned for Contra and then had to do a Kevin Spacey to try and pacify the backlash? Could be the harassment he got from that entire mess.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 18:21 |
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“Doing a kevin spacey”??? Can we, like, just not with that? Augus fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Feb 19, 2020 |
# ? Feb 19, 2020 18:25 |
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Augus posted:“Doing a kevin spacey”??? Seriously. Did he like come out as gay and make it seem like that was the source of the backlash, like Spacey did?
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 18:31 |
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Dawgstar posted:https://twitter.com/SamSykesSwears/status/1229948255628230656 lol, what a loving idiot. like i sorta get what he might be trying to say(try to learn from losses and improve) but he words it so horribly that he makes it a terrible lesson.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 18:32 |
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Senerio posted:Seriously. Did he like come out as gay and make it seem like that was the source of the backlash, like Spacey did? Well I presume it wasn't the "all his accusers mysteriously die" part.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 18:32 |
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Endorph posted:its not that theyre more apathetic necessarily its just that the left is even more splintered and ineffectual than america's leading to decades of basically continuous center-right rule, which has beaten a lot of people down. like there's plenty of people who are old enough to remember the 60s student protests and how they still arrived at the point they're at now despite all that. Also the CIA making sure no leftists got important in government, Gladio-style.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:09 |
there are obviously lgbt and feminist voices in japanese society and nerd media (although way more in the underground art and music scenes than among otaku) but speaking from experience there are some massive societal issues when it comes to the whole treatment of lgbt people
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:10 |
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Or it could be his long standing mental health issues briefly got worse. That he's talked about multiple times.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:13 |
Katt posted:Was the mental breakdown when he stanned for Contra and then had to do a Kevin Spacey to try and pacify the backlash? Yeah, he's made videos about his struggle with suicidal thoughts, so not cool?
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:16 |
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MonsieurChoc posted:Also the CIA making sure no leftists got important in government, Gladio-style. Not sure how much help Japan would need from the CIA. They were very good at hunting and exterminating anything Leftist after the Meiji Restoration... and that pic I posted is a socialist party getting stabbed by a ultra nationalist student.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:18 |
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Philotube going "I'm a bisexual btw" as a way to shield himself from the awful statements he made during the contra stuff was pretty tacky but the kevin spacey comparison is a bit much lol
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:24 |
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I only played Catherine once on launch, and that was mostly because I was horny college kid and there was a sexy anime waifu on the cover. Unsurprisingly with such an attitude I found nothing wrong with it at the time. Last year I watched Joseph Anderson stream it which was my first exposure to the game in eight years, and uh... wow, Erica. Atlus could not possibly have handled including a trans woman in their game any worse, I thought. ...Then I found out what they do with her in one of the Full Body endings Atlus in particular is really bad with LGBT representation. IIRC there's also a running "gag" in Persona 5 where two flamboyantly gay men want to rape Ryuji.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:26 |
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Atlus is far behind the curve with this crap but people seem to think that they for some reason represent how every japanese game dev and person feels which is stupid.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:27 |
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Yeah there's good and bad representation across Japanese media, just like there's good and bad representation in Western media. Japan is definitely on the whole probably tipped more towards "bad" than "good", at least moreso than the west, but using Atlus to condemn all Japanese media is cherry-picking.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:31 |
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yeah atlus is subpar by japanese standards and gets criticism for this stuff in japan. idk why people act like nobody in japan ever calls atlus homophobic.Sydin posted:Yeah there's good and bad representation across Japanese media, just like there's good and bad representation in Western media. Japan is definitely on the whole probably tipped more towards "bad" than "good", at least moreso than the west, but using Atlus to condemn all Japanese media is cherry-picking. i'd sayi ts kinda hard to tip this one way or the other because the issues their media has is different. due to how the japanese manga industry is structured there's way more prominent art made by just a gay/lesbian/trans person, about gay/lesbian/trans people, than there is in america, but on the flipside due to it being a defined genre a lot of that stuff can be pigeon holed into certain tropes. which is an issue with american media about gay people too, but it's not so codified. tv dramas in japan tend to run pretty conservative and appealing to olds, compared to the more neoliberal angle of american daytime dramas/prestige tv, but on the flipside there's less 'this is what being progressive is' type forcefeeding. its pretty hard to say one is better or worse, they're just different countries and different media environments with their own successes and baggage. Endorph fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Feb 19, 2020 |
# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:31 |
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imo i also think an environment where people are free to release and (minorly) profit from fanworks like japan has is also important to gay art existing but thats kind of a different conversation
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:41 |
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Isn't it also a bit of a thing, that complicates it a little, is that when it comes to being trans or transitioning that in many cases an individual who would be seen as trans in the west will not identify as trans themselves until they basically complete their transition? I think this was a thing in one manga that comes up in the romance manga and light novel thread.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:41 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:28 |
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Atlus is far behind the curve with this crap but people seem to think that they for some reason represent how every japanese game dev and person feels which is stupid. yeah. like yoko taro is weirdly progressive when it comes to stuff. he has his issues obviously but its not atlus level.
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# ? Feb 19, 2020 19:46 |