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I didn’t mind Jojo Rabbit until the climax when it became as Oscar bait-y as possible
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Feb 19, 2020 20:17
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Skwirl posted:Does the UK just exist to make US immigration seem sane and reasonable by comparison? One of the US' main visa applications is for "this is an essential talent or skill and I'm the only person in the world that has it." I believe this is the visa that the first lady used when immigrating.
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Feb 19, 2020 20:22
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Baron von Eevl posted:One of the US' main visa applications is for "this is an essential talent or skill and I'm the only person in the world that has it." I believe this is the visa that the first lady used when immigrating. As loath as I am to give the administration any credit at all, these visas are abused by employers. For example, I had a german professor in college who had a visa like this. Apparently there was no equally qualified german-speaking medievalist anywhere in the United States, which the professor herself admitted was ridiculous.
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Feb 19, 2020 20:47
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Does anyone have that animated gif of the guy in the motion capture suit playing the dog in Call of the Wild
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Feb 19, 2020 20:48
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Steve Yun posted:Does anyone have that animated gif of the guy in the motion capture suit playing the dog in Call of the Wild Skwirl posted:I thought Call of the Wild was going to be 2 hours of watching Harrison Ford try and act with a tennis ball, oh god how I wish I was right.
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Feb 19, 2020 20:59
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This piece really sums up how I feel about Jojo Rabbit but I will also add that the movie is boring as poo poo and only has two jokes that work (and I love What We Do in the Shadows): https://estheronfilm.com/2020/02/13/my-final-words-on-jojo-rabbit/
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Feb 19, 2020 21:14
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That article touches on it but while I don't hate Jojo Rabbit, it's not a satire and shouldn't use been marketed as such and other than the imaginary Hitler, the movie seems rather run of the mill and toothless It provides no real insights and it's attacks on Nazis are very superficial and surface level.
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Feb 19, 2020 21:36
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cargohills posted:sadly Jojo Rabbit is very very bad. Actually, the opposite is true. axelblaze posted:That article touches on it but while I don't hate Jojo Rabbit, it's not a satire and shouldn't use been marketed as such and other than the imaginary Hitler, the movie seems rather run of the mill and toothless It provides no real insights and it's attacks on Nazis are very superficial and surface level. It's not about Nazis. Nazis don't really need to be satirised. (Well, they didn't until quite recently...) It's about how a child views the world, and how easily they can be indoctrinated with even the most bizarre and ridiculous concepts. The film is about how Jojo slowly realises what has happened to him, and what reality actually is compared to what he's been told and imagines it is. The Nazis are satirised (if that's the word) so that we can see how ridiculous they are, while he in contrast cannot. That contrast is the point.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:26
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therattle posted:It's not about Nazis. Nazis don't really need to be satirised. (Well, they didn't until quite recently...) It's about how a child views the world, and how easily they can be indoctrinated with even the most bizarre and ridiculous concepts. The film is about how Jojo slowly realises what has happened to him, and what reality actually is compared to what he's been told and imagines it is. The Nazis are satirised (if that's the word) so that we can see how ridiculous they are, while he in contrast cannot. That contrast is the point. What? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-PZVrWvJM0&t=100s
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Feb 19, 2020 22:39
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That's not satire, mate.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:43
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Maybe the big point of contention with Jojo Rabbit is that the word “satire” is meaningless now.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:44
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Jojo is a better movie if you don’t think of it as limited to criticizing Nazis and instead think of it as a criticism of all kinds of similar hateful brainwashing
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Feb 19, 2020 22:46
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Grendels Dad posted:That's not satire, mate. What would you call it?
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Feb 19, 2020 22:54
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Flying Zamboni posted:I am positive that if Trump stays in office a near copy/paste of this plan will go into effect for the US almost immediately after the 2020 election. Stephen Miller is probably already drafting the paperwork only taking breaks to replenish the supply of human blood he needs for sustenance. We'd all starve to death if the salary and fluent English requirements were instated. Yes a lot of undocumented immigrants do a lot of agriculture etc work, but there's also a poo poo ton of legal migrants picking and processing and cooking our food. Also, beside the point, but English isn't the official language of either the US or the UK.
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Feb 19, 2020 22:54
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therattle posted:
Jojo is a classic liberal throwback movie whose main theme is we can all just get along if we understand each other. I found it well put together with some excellent very telegraphed comedy beats. But I can definitely see people finding it distasteful in our current political era where those sorts of politics have manifestly failed and actually helped embolden the rise of literal neo-Nazis. Especially since it seems very confused about sympathizing with old Nazis. Out of context, solid film. In context of radicalized left wingers, tone deaf.
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Feb 19, 2020 23:17
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I just found Jojo Rabbit more annoying than funny. It's a fairly typical liberal fantasy of an oppressed person teaching a racist that minorities are people just like everyone else, making it no worse than Green Book, and at least Green Book was funny sometimes. Also, like that article pointed out, the ending from the original source material is way, way better.CPL593H posted:Yeah, pre-WB Joker looks way better and aside from his void eyes they got rid of the lipstick which makes a big difference. They kinda fixed this for his appearence in the Justice League show and the Batman Beyond movie but I still prefer the original TAS look because it's more colorful and represents the clown personality better. In this incarnation he just looks more like a monster, which is know is how he is presented in most media after a certain point but I think that characterization is really dull. The character is at its best when he's an evil clown with a twisted but goofy sense of humor. Sometimes his elaborate schemes just turn out to be the set up for a harmless pratical joke. The last Joker look doesn't give you that impression. These are the three versions of the TAS/Mark Hamill Joker: The Justice League one works because in the episodes where he shows up he's not the main antagonist.
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Feb 19, 2020 23:25
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Steve Yun posted:Jojo is a better movie if you don’t think of it as limited to criticizing Nazis and instead think of it as a criticism of all kinds of similar hateful brainwashing This. And it’s not about teaching a person that minorities are people: it’s teaching a child. I feel like that’s an important distinction. It’s not like the Gestapo agents see the light. Segue posted:Jojo is a classic liberal throwback movie whose main theme is we can all just get along if we understand each other. I found it well put together with some excellent very telegraphed comedy beats. I’ve seen the comment about sympathising with Nazis, i guess in response to the Sam Rockwell character? He struck me as wholly disillusioned and not at all a Nazi.
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Feb 19, 2020 23:31
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therattle posted:This. Sam Rockwell saves the girl! Granted, it's not because he cares specifically about Elsa, but because he feels bad about the Nazis killing Scarlett Johansson, but still, he does see the light.
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Feb 19, 2020 23:35
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He’s a high-ranking member of the Nazi party so yeah he literally is a Nazi
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Feb 19, 2020 23:35
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therattle posted:It's not about Nazis. Nazis don't really need to be satirised. (Well, they didn't until quite recently...) It's about how a child views the world, and how easily they can be indoctrinated with even the most bizarre and ridiculous concepts. The film is about how Jojo slowly realises what has happened to him, and what reality actually is compared to what he's been told and imagines it is. The Nazis are satirised (if that's the word) so that we can see how ridiculous they are, while he in contrast cannot. That contrast is the point. That's fine in concept, yet I think the film still goes about it in the most wrongheaded way possible. And because it does use the Nazis, its fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of Nazism, fascism and racism/anti-Semitism should absolutely be held against it. Who is Jojo and how does he behave? He's a child who has been indoctrinated by what is presented as an absurd ideology of hatred. Why is anti-Semitism absurd here and what are the actual motivations behind its spread. The film itself makes light of the idea of Jews as horned monsters, showing how none of the adult Nazis seriously believe in this while Jojo does. So why do they hate Jews then? What reasons are there for their bigotry and why are they instilling it in this young child. This shouldn't get a pass simply because it's from the kid's perspective because how it's relayed to the audience is that anti-Semitism is inherently silly to believe and the solution is merely meeting a Jew and realizing they're not literal monsters but people. This clearly isn't true for the adults, who know the monster stereotype is ridiculous but would still readily murder Elsa nonetheless. And to what degree is Jojo responsible for his participation? At what point is a child absolved for their involvement in a fascist regime and when do they age to a point where they are complicit? These are questions the film doesn't want to wrestle with, whereas the original novel takes the premise to its full, darkest conclusion: The movie ends at the midway point. In the novel, Elsa believes Jojo's lies that the war is still ongoing and eventually that the Nazis won. They marry while she remains a captive in his home and he increasingly is forced to confront the fall of the ideology and country he was raised to believe in. There's many sources on how former Hitler Youth members were affected by their childhoods and the indoctrination, and how deeply it has disturbed them for the rest of their lives. Yet Waititi's take is sanitized and handwrung into a Love Trumps Hate narrative that doesn't accurately diagnose the causes or even the symptoms of the problems it's addressing. Ok, sure, it's a comedy and it's not trying to be grim dark but I would argue if you want to make a story about this material it needs to be grimdark. Hell, it can still be a comedy, but it needs to be vicious. I'll admit, I find the opening sequence of Moonrise Kingdom in the Hitler Youth, complete with charming book burnings, to be sufficiently horrific in a way that could lead to some truly biting commentary. But the film immediately backpedals from there and never sinks its teeth into the realities of Nazi Germany or the continued legacy of hatred that has permeated the world in the following decades. This is getting into "this is how I would have done it" territory, but if you truly want to make a comedy about the Hitler Youth it needs to descend into absolute horror. By the end it should go from Moonrise Kingdom to Come and See and Jojo should be forced to truly reconcile the cost of his ideology on his family. Hell, Jojo should have been the one to turn in his mother. I don't know man, I really respect your opinion on stuff but I don't know how you can say this movie is not about Nazis. You cannot make a movie about a Hitler Youth who imagines Hitler as his imaginary best friend who parrots anti-Semitic propaganda and say "It's not about Nazis." It absolutely is and on that front it completely fails. edit: I should clarify my second paragraph here. I don't mean to say that there's quote unquote logical reasons for anti-Semitism, just that it is motivated by ingrained societal bigotry, worsened by economic conditions, and reaches far beyond silly misguidedness. TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 23:39
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I guess I just think that if Jojo is about propaganda, it doesn't really let the audience in on the appeal of it. It's a movie where we wait for a character to get into our way of thinking rather than ever making attempt to really understand why someone would fall for this stuff beyond him being lonely. The journey of discovery Jojo goes on is not one we share, we're simply supposed to wait at the finish line and watch him cross.
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Feb 19, 2020 23:55
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axelblaze posted:I guess I just think that if Jojo is about propaganda, it doesn't really let the audience in on the appeal of it. It's a movie where we wait for a character to get into our way of thinking rather than ever making attempt to really understand why someone would fall for this stuff beyond him being lonely. The journey of discovery Jojo goes on is not one we share, we're simply supposed to wait at the finish line and watch him cross. Yeah. The opening montage of Triumph of the Will cut to I Want to Hold Your Hand is sort of getting at that but really doesn't communicate it in a way that lands. Again, I get Waititi's "Nazism was like Beatlemania" comparison to show how people in crowds can get readily swept up, but it's very glib about it and doesn't do anything to probe that idea beyond that. My partner, who has a degree in German history and has heavily studied Nazi Germany, also made a good suggestion for what Waititi could have done to more effectively show the redemptive arc he wanted. Hitler's last public appearance was meeting with some Hitler Youth kids and giving them medals before returning to the bunker and blowing his brains out. There was an opportunity here, since this is historical fiction, to have Jojo meet the actual Hitler -- at that point weary and broken -- to shatter his idealized image. The notion of a buddy buddy wacky best friend Hitler is something that makes sense for getting at a kid's point of view, but he fails at the heel turn. The Hitler character in the movie just sort of falls to the wayside and he's dismissed readily. As a symbol for the nagging, endearing embodiment of fascism's appeal it's not a very powerful force and easily defeated. TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Feb 20, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 23:58
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therattle posted:I’ve seen the comment about sympathising with Nazis, i guess in response to the Sam Rockwell character? He struck me as wholly disillusioned and not at all a Nazi. A lot of the Nazi characters are played up as dumb boobs or hapless go-alongs. You laugh at their inept evil but they're treated more as idiots that you could get along with. There's a lot of wiggle room. Especially with Rockwell's character who, while disillusioned, fights for the Nazis to the very end. It's not wholly sympathetic, but confused about how it should treat them. Which is why I think a lot of people found it a bit messy. It seems to want to be all things and just ends up straddling a mushy centrist fence.
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Feb 20, 2020 00:00
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TrixRabbi posted:Yeah. The opening montage of Triumph of the Will cut to I Want to Hold Your Hand is sort of getting at that but really doesn't communicate it in a way that lands. Again, I get Waititi's "Nazism was like Beatlemania" comparison to show how people in crowds can get readily swept up, but it's very glib about it and doesn't do anything to probe that idea beyond that. This seems like it would have been more relevant in the 1960s. Is this movie aimed at Boomers?
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Feb 20, 2020 00:04
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Detective No. 27 posted:Boy is super good. And it's on Canopy. I have literally never heard of Canopy before. Back in the day, if someone said "and it's on Netflix!" that meant you could watch it for free because you probably had Netflix. Now we've gotten to the point where "and it's on *insert streaming service name*!" just means maybe you'll be able to see it for free if they have a free trial period, but if not you will have to pay money for it because there are too many goddamn streaming services
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Feb 20, 2020 00:04
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Gripweed posted:I have literally never heard of Canopy before. Kanopy is a streaming service for public libraries. If your local library is a member, you can create an account using your library card number and stream a certain amount of movies per month for free. It's got a really great catalog, especially if you're into documentaries and foreign films, but some of the apps are buggy.
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Feb 20, 2020 00:08
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fenix down posted:I prefer this version: Fuckin' nerd. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The Mr. Freeze stuff REALLY clicks into place when you realize he's a Mike Mignola design. I never knew this but it makes a lot of sense. pospysyl posted:The Justice League one works because in the episodes where he shows up he's not the main antagonist. There was one where he buys a bunch of airtime and then does Joker stuff on live tv. Unfortunately they only used him two or three times because at that time there a lovely Batman show no one cared about so for some reason Justice League (and I think the original Teen Titans series) couldn't use any Batman characters other than Batman himself. They probably could have done some really cool stuff with them too.
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Feb 20, 2020 00:15
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TrixRabbi posted:That's fine in concept, yet I think the film still goes about it in the most wrongheaded way possible. And because it does use the Nazis, its fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of Nazism, fascism and racism/anti-Semitism should absolutely be held against it. This is a great post. I’m going to bed but I’ll think about it tomorrow.
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Feb 20, 2020 00:31
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therattle posted:Actually, the opposite is true. happily Jojo Rabbit is very very bad.
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Feb 20, 2020 00:33
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I greatly enjoyed WWDITS and generally found Ragnarok okay (haven't seen Jojo Rabbit yet) but my take on Watiti, in light of both his works and some interviews he's given, is that he's a very good creative who is acutely aware of how quickly Hollywood is willing and able to completely dumpster PoC creators of his tier if they step out of line, and he's already made the calculus to compromise the gently caress out of his bolder tendencies if it keeps him from getting thrown out of his career.
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Feb 20, 2020 01:32
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The unavoidable conclusion is that Jojo Rabbit can only really function as a satire of “anti-hate” movies like Boy In The Striped Pyjamas. And, even in that respect, it’s a failure.
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Feb 20, 2020 01:43
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I think we know now that if Jerry Lewis had released The Day the Clown Cried when he completed it that it would have been nominated for Best Picture.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:29
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TrixRabbi posted:
I found that the Hitler Fun Camp was perfect at showing that fascism as an ideology really only makes sense in the mind of 10-year-old children, which sets up how easily Jojo, a seemingly well-meaning and affable child is nevertheless aspiring to be a genocidal child soldier. Playing tug of war, getting cool knives and blowing things up is universally appealing to children, and if your main concern is wanting to "be in a club", then the underlying ideology may go unexamined in order to conform.
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Feb 20, 2020 03:25
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I greatly enjoyed WWDITS and generally found Ragnarok okay (haven't seen Jojo Rabbit yet) but my take on Watiti, in light of both his works and some interviews he's given, is that he's a very good creative who is acutely aware of how quickly Hollywood is willing and able to completely dumpster PoC creators of his tier if they step out of line, and he's already made the calculus to compromise the gently caress out of his bolder tendencies if it keeps him from getting thrown out of his career. My impression of him is that he's either got a serious ego or real thin skin, which is kind of at odds with his comedy genre
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Feb 20, 2020 03:54
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pospysyl posted:Kanopy is a streaming service for public libraries. If your local library is a member, you can create an account using your library card number and stream a certain amount of movies per month for free. It's got a really great catalog, especially if you're into documentaries and foreign films, but some of the apps are buggy. 
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Feb 20, 2020 05:42
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Mae posted:I found that the Hitler Fun Camp was perfect at showing that fascism as an ideology really only makes sense in the mind of 10-year-old children, which sets up how easily Jojo, a seemingly well-meaning and affable child is nevertheless aspiring to be a genocidal child soldier. Playing tug of war, getting cool knives and blowing things up is universally appealing to children, and if your main concern is wanting to "be in a club", then the underlying ideology may go unexamined in order to conform. The first problem is that, in this analysis, the film is actually just satirizing the concept of summer camps. Second: the danger of the Nazis is not that they lack maturity.
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Feb 20, 2020 06:12
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Second: the danger of the Nazis is not that they lack maturity. Some Nazis lack maturity though. One thing that’s scary about a totalitarian dystopia is that you don’t have to be a monster for the system to get you to do the evil things it wants you to do. “Not every Nazi was depicted as an actual psychopath” is thus a pretty weak criticism. All of this reeks of the awful “histrionic leftist” school of film criticism. The complaint seems to be that the film criticizes Nazis in a way the critic feels was too liberal. Yawn.
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Feb 20, 2020 06:49
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I spent a bunch of time reading about Phillip K. Dick short stories last night and while some of them are cool and good and should be adapted into good movies, i didn't know about some of the weirder/darker poo poo in there. Like he was so angered by the Roe v Wade decision that he wrote a short story about an America where abortions can be done until the legally determined point that someone has a soul, which is 12 years old, which sounds like the plot of a fake Modest Proposal satire about abortion written by a nut job, except its real. also a story where the big Twilight Zone twist at the end is that a lady probably hosed a duck
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Feb 20, 2020 07:07
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fenix down posted:I was just thinking - isn't Hoopla the library one? Turns out they are both based on your library card, but slightly different selection. So I searched for Hard to Be a God on justwatch.com and it's on both. Wonder if there is a quality difference? They're both library streaming services. My local library uses hoopla my workplace library uses kanopy. Kanopy has some great highbrow movies including the movie of the month for February. Hoopla overall seems to have a lot of baseline garbage on it, but it does have the remastered Phantasm which alone makes it top-tier for streaming services.
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Feb 20, 2020 07:13
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AI-generated conspiracy theory: (spoiler'd for large) Tag yourself, I'm "Mister Rogers' Neighbourhood is haunted"
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Feb 20, 2020 07:47
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