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I kinda started to call the beats as the Proving unfolded figuring that for one reason or another we had to leave the Nora for one reason or another (I didnt see the Eclipse attack coming), and unravel the mystery of her past and probably Rosts past too, explore all the robots and stuff. That part seemed pretty straightforward. I started putting it together, but i couldnt get tje pieces together. the robots were a solution to climate change and people hid out in their bunkers and lost all their history somehow. Maybe something to do with the killbots? Ok so if animal robots fix the climate how come killbots didnt kill them? how come no history if new robots? OH gently caress ZERO DAWN.
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Feb 19, 2020 07:17
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I was actually expecting the reason Aloy goes on her quest she wins the proving, and gets her boon, and they say "we found Rost near death, holding you, he did not remember wear you came from or what happened to him, and that would begin your quest. Hah I brought all the animal statues back and BROUGHT TO YOU BY MONTANA RECREATIONS!
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Feb 19, 2020 07:34
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twistedmentat posted:
hard to pick between that and Concrete Beach Party as the best part of the DLC
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Feb 19, 2020 07:53
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morallyobjected posted:hard to pick between that and Concrete Beach Party as the best part of the DLC The Band is better, but that is pretty good. One problem with getting the special armor before the DLC means that all the neat DLC armors are kind of pointless.
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Feb 19, 2020 08:19
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twistedmentat posted:The Band is better, but that is pretty good. at least on hard and up, the extra mod slot is way more useful than the shield because the shield goes down on one hit to most DLC enemies and then you have a suit with no mods until it recharges
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Feb 19, 2020 08:24
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v1ld posted:This. While I disagree with you about years old things still needing spoilers, and it being presumptuous to think they don't (ITS HIS CHILDHOOD TOY SLED!!!), I also didn't know there is a dedicated spoiler thread already. Fair enough as well about the new PC players who are about to jump in, it's a great game and one of only 2 I've ever 100%, so I hope it gets a ton more love and a good sequel.
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Feb 19, 2020 08:35
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morallyobjected posted:at least on hard and up, the extra mod slot is way more useful than the shield because the shield goes down on one hit to most DLC enemies and then you have a suit with no mods until it recharges That's true, Plus human enemies seem to be able to knock the shield out in a single hit. Something I learned last night was if you hit a robots leg, they will go down. This really helps when fighting Frostclaws. I'd say when the PC version comes out, create a completely new thread to make sure PC players don't accidentally spoil themselves on something posting.
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Feb 19, 2020 08:56
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twistedmentat posted:The Band is better, but that is pretty good. Yeah as others have said the DLC is kind of designed to say "eff you" to the Shield Weaver armor. There are enemies that can disable it and then you're practically naked. It forced me to play around with elemental armor mods and I ended up just using those moving forward
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Feb 20, 2020 00:44
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I just went back to stealthing and throwing rocks to disable the shield-disablers and relied on resistance potions. But yeah.
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Feb 20, 2020 00:58
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I'm just about nearing the end of the main game. This has to be one of my favorite post-apocalypse (or post-post) stories of all time. Everything is so interesting, well-considered, and just fun to learn Regarding Ted Faro. Obviously I knew I was going to hate the guy after years of seeing this topic's title, and for the most part I was not disappointed. He was an extremely interesting villain that was so extraordinarily grounded that it was actually believable that this single man caused the end of the world. However, I think my hatred was tempered somewhat by... kinda agreeing with him about APOLLO? Before I knew the full story my theory was that Faro was responsible for APOLLO because that feels like such a techbro philosophy - the idea of uplifting a primitive people by shoving knowledge in their brain. Here, grab an iPhone, read these 10,000 Wikipedia articles and then go reinvent civilization! One of the most common themes explored by scifi is how "short-cutting" knowledge is extremely dangerous - the most famous example being the Prime Directive from Star Trek. Giving people who would essentially be in the stone age the knowledge (and philosophy?) from the information age seems almost... reprehensible? Anyway, obviously not defending Ted because he did some terrible and awful things because he thought he was in the 'right' and above reproach, but I think understanding his side is what elevated him to one of my favorite villains. What a cool game and story. I'm so excited to finish this last mission, dive into the DLC, and speculate endlessly on where H2 could go. My personal theory at this stage is Hades was working as intended. The system detected that Gaia messed up somehow and was attempting to perform its duty. She successfully stopped it and Hades had to resort to Plan C which was to release all the subordinates as independent AIs. H2 will be about rebuilding Gaia and then realizing that the world she wants to create is untenable
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Feb 20, 2020 01:50
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WarpDogs posted:I'm just about nearing the end of the main game. This has to be one of my favorite post-apocalypse (or post-post) stories of all time. Everything is so interesting, well-considered, and just fun to learn I see where you're coming from with Faro but keep in mind that the tribes were never supposed to exist. It wouldn't have been a short-circuit because the new humans would have been raised from birth with both the knowledge of our technology and the doom that it brought. Ideally they would have made better choices as a result.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:59
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Gadzuko posted:I see where you're coming from with Faro but keep in mind that the tribes were never supposed to exist. It wouldn't have been a short-circuit because the new humans would have been raised from birth with both the knowledge of our technology and the doom that it brought. Ideally they would have made better choices as a result. We don't know if they where straight up going to be taught how to pick up civilization where Ted Faro ended it. Maybe school was just going to teach them how to create the basis of civilization, tech to make their lives as good as possible and let them forge ahead as they see fit. The big part was the history and cultural aspects of it. Knowing of the around 10k years of human history is worth while, and knowing art and literature and music is as well. Medullah posted:Yeah as others have said the DLC is kind of designed to say "eff you" to the Shield Weaver armor. There are enemies that can disable it and then you're practically naked. It forced me to play around with elemental armor mods and I ended up just using those moving forward Yea, its useful against the Frostclaws and such, but humans I'll probably want to go back to Nora Protector. I like that Carja Blazon is the closest the game gets to sexy Aloy, and its not. A hell of a lot of restraint in this game.
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Feb 20, 2020 04:36
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WarpDogs posted:
Hot drat, I like that one. One of the things I love about the game is that the story is so good that we can keep theorizing about it for so long and it's still amazing to read, think about, and discuss.
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Feb 20, 2020 04:43
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WarpDogs posted:I'm just about nearing the end of the main game. This has to be one of my favorite post-apocalypse (or post-post) stories of all time. Everything is so interesting, well-considered, and just fun to learn I think the way it was written into the story was that the kids would be raised to kindergarten age by servitors, then put through a full education by the various systems tied into APOLLO - they had mentioned a bunch of work being done on moral/ethical safeguards against exactly what Faro was talking about. Basically instead of "the carja but with knowledge of nuclear weapons" it's "everyone is raised by mr rogers and shown how to safely split the atom"
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Feb 20, 2020 05:45
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I am still amazed at environments in this game. The way snow deforms as you move and fight in it is amazing. I love when games have snowy areas because it's a massively underused environment in games. So many deserts, so many. I god I love the young Banuks. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Feb 20, 2020 |
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Feb 20, 2020 07:07
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The dlc was hard to play through because the max stealth armor doesnt have sleeves and aloy looked so cold!
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Feb 20, 2020 14:28
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I’m actually kind of surprised most humans didn’t die out the second they left the vault unprepared and with no knowledge
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Feb 20, 2020 15:14
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bobjr posted:I’m actually kind of surprised most humans didn’t die out the second they left the vault unprepared and with no knowledge I think it's mentioned somewhere that a lot did die, though the wildlife wasn't hostile - the way they treat "the derangement" in the story makes it clear they weren't dealing with hostile robotic wildlife until the mystery signal broke GAIA's control.
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Feb 20, 2020 17:02
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FAUXTON posted:I think it's mentioned somewhere that a lot did die, though the wildlife wasn't hostile - the way they treat "the derangement" in the story makes it clear they weren't dealing with hostile robotic wildlife until the mystery signal broke GAIA's control. If i was remebering the assorted data points, its probably about a 100 years since they kids got kicked out and the derangement started about 15 years back (or however old Aloy is). (Based on "the history of the Carja" texts)
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Feb 20, 2020 17:07
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toplitzin posted:If i was remebering the assorted data points, its probably about a 100 years since they kids got kicked out and the derangement started about 15 years back (or however old Aloy is). (Based on "the history of the Carja" texts) It was a lot longer than that. You don't build up the level of civilization they have in that tiny period. EDIT: A timeline I looked at says it was a bit over 700 years from them getting the boot to Aloy being born. Even that seems way too short for the cultures that have developed. But, hey, it's a video game! Lumpy fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Feb 20, 2020 |
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Feb 20, 2020 17:16
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WHY BONER NOW posted:The dlc was hard to play through because the max stealth armor doesnt have sleeves and aloy looked so cold! Get the DLC stealth armor, she doesn't shiver when you wear DLC armor.
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Feb 20, 2020 17:20
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WHY BONER NOW posted:The dlc was hard to play through because the max stealth armor doesnt have sleeves and aloy looked so cold! That's why I've been using the Banuk Ice armor. It looks pretty warm.
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Feb 20, 2020 18:31
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Lumpy posted:It was a lot longer than that. You don't build up the level of civilization they have in that tiny period. EDIT: A timeline I looked at says it was a bit over 700 years from them getting the boot to Aloy being born. Even that seems way too short for the cultures that have developed. But, hey, it's a video game! Ahh, i thought the carja texts were only showing 5ish generations of sun kings
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Feb 20, 2020 19:10
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The Carja are a newer tribe to the region but all of them seem to have at one point originated from the Eleuthia Facility in Nora lands.
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Feb 20, 2020 19:19
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toplitzin posted:Ahh, i thought the carja texts were only showing 5ish generations of sun kings The current sun king is like the 14th king so yeah, either a lot of murder happened or they are pretty old.
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Feb 20, 2020 19:42
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Lechtansi posted:The current sun king is like the 14th king so yeah, either a lot of murder happened or they are pretty old. lol it was absolutely murder almost every time
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Feb 20, 2020 20:37
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WarpDogs posted:What a cool game and story. I'm so excited to finish this last mission, dive into the DLC, and speculate endlessly on where H2 could go. My personal theory at this stage is Hades was working as intended. The system detected that Gaia messed up somehow and was attempting to perform its duty. She successfully stopped it and Hades had to resort to Plan C which was to release all the subordinates as independent AIs. H2 will be about rebuilding Gaia and then realizing that the world she wants to create is untenable You put GAIA together and between damage to it and HADES tomfuckery it thinks the biosphere is unstable, leading you on a quest to gather a bunch of data proving everything is fine other than people being people and the robots getting all murder happy and have to reboot GAIA only to find out maybe everything ISN'T stable and maybe GAIA hosed up or maybe it's HADES being a dick. Is HADES being over eager to purge? Is it all the fault of mysterious signal thing that I don't remember a lot about? Is it actually the ghost of Ted Faro trying to stop more people from finding out about his hubris? Some other survivors that survived the plague in a bunker who want to kill everyone for reasons? Or a last ditch hold out of the machines, trying to reboot themselves to PURGE the world again? Find out in Horizon: Zero Dawn: The Sequelening.
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Feb 21, 2020 00:53
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I have two major issues with the concept that HADES is just doing what it's supposed to be doing. First of all, what part of its programming involves targetting and eliminating Elizabet Sobek? There's no reason for it to care - if anything, having Sobek around would be good as she could potentially fix any problems with GAIA. The second is that HADES's mission is over. It may have indeed been necessary at some point - we don't know how long it took for GAIA to get it right - but not only were terraforming operations well underway, animals had been introduced and the entire stock of human zygotes had been depleted. (This is assuming that ELUTHIA sites around the world had been activated - there may still be no-go zones, but the air and water cycle would have to be essentially fixed worldwide for what we see to make sense.) Going back to square one, which is HADES' goal, would at this point render GAIA incapable of ever accomplishing her mission. I suppose one could argue that Travis Tate was killed by Faro before HADES was complete, but there's no evidence for that. Meanwhile, there is evidence that some kind of corruption from an outside force infected HADES.
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Feb 21, 2020 01:08
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bobjr posted:I’m actually kind of surprised most humans didn’t die out the second they left the vault unprepared and with no knowledge While Gaia was forbidden from making direct contact with the newly decanted tribespeople, she wasn't forbidden from engineering every fruit and animal in existence for maximal nutritional value. Don't need predators to keep primary consumers low when humans fill that niche. It's how I explain how Nora could sustain a hunter gatherer lifestyle for so long and at such high population densities. Even the Carja benefited, they worked out agriculture very very fast.
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Feb 21, 2020 01:20
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ashpanash posted:I have two major issues with the concept that HADES is just doing what it's supposed to be doing. First of all, what part of its programming involves targetting and eliminating Elizabet Sobek? There's no reason for it to care - if anything, having Sobek around would be good as she could potentially fix any problems with GAIA.
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Feb 21, 2020 02:03
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Lord Hydronium posted:So if I remember correctly, HADES doesn't have the ability to decide "the world is fine and shouldn't be reset". That's GAIA's job, and normally HADES would be under her control, only to be let loose if necessary. Unshackling the subordinate AIs meant that HADES was basically on its own, and fulfilled its programming as if it had been set free in the normal way. Basically there was nothing to tell it "no". This is correct.
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Feb 21, 2020 02:59
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Phobophilia posted:While Gaia was forbidden from making direct contact with the newly decanted tribespeople, she wasn't forbidden from engineering every fruit and animal in existence for maximal nutritional value. Don't need predators to keep primary consumers low when humans fill that niche. It's how I explain how Nora could sustain a hunter gatherer lifestyle for so long and at such high population densities. It does seem weird (and convenient) that GAIA had directives forbidding her from interacting with the tribespeople. Why? Surely, if Apollo was online, they would know of her, why she was there, and that maintaining her and her systems would be something they would need to be able to do. She might even have been mentioned to the kids (and teens) in ELUTHIA by the servitors. Why must GAIA herself be so hands-off? While there was mention of the process of 'leveling-up' through knowledge, you might think that they wouldn't really ever want to inspire any kind of worship, so they'd introduce even the first born to the concept that GAIA is just another machine, albeit a more complex one. Other than because it was necessary for the story to work? Hopefully even that has actually been thought out. ashpanash fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 03:02
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Lord Hydronium posted:So if I remember correctly, HADES doesn't have the ability to decide "the world is fine and shouldn't be reset". That's GAIA's job, and normally HADES would be under her control, only to be let loose if necessary. Unshackling the subordinate AIs meant that HADES was basically on its own, and fulfilled its programming as if it had been set free in the normal way. Basically there was nothing to tell it "no". I don't think that's true, the entire reason that HADES can take over is because GAIA's programming would refuse to let it admit that it had failed and it'd keep trying to save the doomed biosphere.
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Feb 21, 2020 03:07
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Lord Hydronium posted:So if I remember correctly, HADES doesn't have the ability to decide "the world is fine and shouldn't be reset". That's GAIA's job, and normally HADES would be under her control, only to be let loose if necessary. Unshackling the subordinate AIs meant that HADES was basically on its own, and fulfilled its programming as if it had been set free in the normal way. Basically there was nothing to tell it "no". In one of the logs it was mentioned that there was a back-and-forth between HADES and GAIA such that if GAIA was still in control, she'd work behind-the-scenes to undo what HADES had done. So if GAIA was in charge of HADES, she'd never release him. HADES had to have some ability to take over if things were running poorly, not if GAIA decided she made an oopsy. And again, why the focus on killing Sobek? What does that have to do with reversing terraforming operations? HADES goal was not to smother GAIA, but to override her until the slate was blank, and then relinquish control.
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Feb 21, 2020 03:12
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ashpanash posted:It does seem weird (and convenient) that GAIA had directives forbidding her from interacting with the tribespeople. Why? Surely, if Apollo was online, they would know of her, why she was there, and that maintaining her and her systems would be something they would need to be able to do. She might even have been mentioned to the kids (and teens) in ELUTHIA by the servitors. Why must GAIA herself be so hands-off? While there was mention of the process of 'leveling-up' through knowledge, you might think that they wouldn't really ever want to inspire any kind of worship, so they'd introduce even the first born to the concept that GAIA is just another machine, albeit a more complex one. Other than because it was necessary for the story to work? Hopefully even that has actually been thought out. I thought - and I might be imagining this - that GAIA was not supposed to stick around after setting up the new biosphere. So once the project completes and humanity is released into the world, GAIA's job is done and she goes quiescent. Did I imagine this? It'd be awkward to have a terraforming AI undoing what she considered environmental damage once humanity got back to what it does best. That's why she wouldn't interact with the tribespeople, she remains behind the curtain.
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Feb 21, 2020 03:43
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v1ld posted:I thought - and I might be imagining this - that GAIA was not supposed to stick around after setting up the new biosphere. So once the project completes and humanity is released into the world, GAIA's job is done and she goes quiescent. Did I imagine this? Her work wasn't done, she still had more to do. Which is why she needed Aloy to eventually re-instate GAIA, because without her still overseeing terraforming operations, the system will eventually fall apart.
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Feb 21, 2020 04:47
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ashpanash posted:Her work wasn't done, she still had more to do. Which is why she needed Aloy to eventually re-instate GAIA, because without her still overseeing terraforming operations, the system will eventually fall apart. Sure, but if her programming is to cease operations after she feels she's done then that's a sound reason for her never to show herself to new humanity even before then. More generally, I assumed that all of ZD's bots would go away once the planet fully rebooted. That might be an unfounded assumption though.
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Feb 21, 2020 04:54
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v1ld posted:Sure, but if her programming is to cease operations after she feels she's done then that's a sound reason for her never to show herself to new humanity even before then. Surely the plan was for humanity to be taught what had happened, what GAIA was, and what the robots out there were doing. I don't really see what the point of hiding it would be, other than...oh gently caress. Did Ted loving Faro slip some robocop OCP directive 4 poo poo into GAIA so she couldn't talk to the humans?
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Feb 21, 2020 05:13
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ashpanash posted:Surely the plan was for humanity to be taught what had happened, what GAIA was, and what the robots out there were doing. I don't really see what the point of hiding it would be, other than...oh gently caress. You're probably right - I don't see a point in hiding it either but made an assumption based on current obliviousness and reliance on legend.
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Feb 21, 2020 05:39
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I assumed it was so GAIA wouldn't get too attached and be like "oh let me just make a filter-bug for all this radiation you guys unleashed with this atomic test here".
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Feb 21, 2020 05:44
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