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GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

Invalido posted:

These guys seem to have what you're looking for (or at least they claim they can get it from somewhere else and sell it on, accepting no returns because of this)

https://shop.speedparts.se/en/prod/saab-oem/bakfjader-13.html

Unless they're full of poo poo they should be able to ship two springs to the U.S. for $235 or thereabout - shipping alone is about a hundred.
There's a bunch of non-genuine SUPLEX brand springs for cheaper from the usual German getting places, but I guess you don't want those.

Sent them an email. Much appreciated.

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GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
Emails received from 4 continents- no more springs forever.

I don't care anymore. I threw on the Nivomats, new rotors and pads, new tires, and had the wheels reconditioned. Once I went past 2 grand in, everything new was like "gently caress it, order it". RockAuto sent me all wrong rotors and pads (gently caress their website, and gently caress their complete lack of customer service), so I just bought the right ones from Eeuroparts before I even returned the wrong ones.

It drives like a goddamned motherfucking dream. Kick the engine in the rear end and the back doesn't even dip. Did round after round on the traffic circle and not even the hint of a slide or understeer.

I guess there's nothing wrong with a car that throwing stupid amounts of money at it won't fix.

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011

Grimey Drawer
Checking in after a long road trip (by my recent standards).
Nothing Broke!
402 miles on a tank of 91, 29.2 mpg!
I knew it was too good to last even as I put the next fill of gas in it.
Now it's hard starting when heat soaked on a hot day of local driving.
Internet says its Crankshaft Position Sensor. (everything gets cooked)
I ordered a CPS, watched a couple of videos, anything I should look out for? Is it best to change 02 sensor if I have to remove it anyway?
grey metallic 2008 2.3T wagon

JayKay
Sep 11, 2001

And you thought they were cute and cuddly.

I did the CPS in my '00 9-5 Aero when I had it. It was relatively straight forward, but was just a very hard to get/cramped area, lots of working blind and by feel.

Only tips I can remember is to make sure that the old rubber gasket comes off with the old sensor. Also try to keep the new sensor clean when you reinstall as that's going to be in the engine and you don't want to introduce any debris obviously. This was difficult for me as there was a lot of blind maneuvering trying to get it into place. I also vaguely remember getting my hand stuck when trying to route the cable and get it reconnected.

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011

Grimey Drawer
I chickened out I let garage fix it. I put new struts in the rear oil change thermostat temperature coolant sensor crankshaft position sensor reset TPMS. Oof, $1400.

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom
Toilet Rascal
Saw this in the trailer for the new Christopher Nolan movie, made me kind of bummed



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdOM0x0XDMo
if you wanna see.

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011

Grimey Drawer
Cool to see a Saab, even if it's getting destroyed. Wonder if the car-wrangler for the production has a soft spot? (or is maybe just a Volvo fan?)

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011

Grimey Drawer
also for those of you that read books, "A man called Ove" is heavy on Saab content. Not a car story per se, but Saab probably mentioned 50 times.

Hawkline
May 30, 2002

¡La Raza!
I'm selling an '08 9-5 Aero Auto in DFW TX area if anyone wants to take a gander. 93k miles $4500 obo. Please buy it and tell me you are gonna love it and send me periodic updates of it joining your family and eventually going to college, i don't want to dump this thing off on Carmax to have it end up in the hands of a person who will use it to run meth or whatever happens to cars there.

https://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/cto/d/colleyville-2008-saab-9-5-aero/7080336421.html

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Hawkline posted:

I'm selling an '08 9-5 Aero Auto in DFW TX area if anyone wants to take a gander. 93k miles $4500 obo. Please buy it and tell me you are gonna love it and send me periodic updates of it joining your family and eventually going to college, i don't want to dump this thing off on Carmax to have it end up in the hands of a person who will use it to run meth or whatever happens to cars there.

https://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/cto/d/colleyville-2008-saab-9-5-aero/7080336421.html

That's clean.

nadmonk
Nov 26, 2017

The spice must flow in and through me.
The fire will cleanse me body and soul.


For some reason, I forget there's a Saab thread.

Anyway, either you're welcome or I'm sorry:

JayKay
Sep 11, 2001

And you thought they were cute and cuddly.

It's like an Animorphs book cover, but worse.

Invalido
Dec 28, 2005

BICHAELING
SAAB thread lives! Have a sweet 9000 camper I found while browsing SAABs (why do I lust for a 9000?)

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

some_admin posted:

also for those of you that read books, "A man called Ove" is heavy on Saab content. Not a car story per se, but Saab probably mentioned 50 times.

They pay this the necessary due in the movie, with the families pulling up in successively newer generations of Saabs and Volvos. I hope there was some semblance of the Chevy vs Ford rivalry in Sweden back in the day.

nadmonk
Nov 26, 2017

The spice must flow in and through me.
The fire will cleanse me body and soul.


My news feed has lately been clogged by images of random cars with Saab faces shopped on.
To cleanse this, I have worked on my actual Saab.

I have suspected I have a leak from my valve cover gasket so I decided to replace that and also my PCV valve, because why not.

Disassemble!


126,000 miles or so on the 2005 9-3 2.0t



I had recently cleaned up the back of the engine a bit so the oil isn't as bad as it was.

Clearly the gasket around #2 spark plug was a little suspect.

Didn't clean up too badly.


I'm not sure the PCV was totally shot, but still a little oil in the intake manifold.



The bolts that hold the manifold to the block are all easily visible and reachable (once you get the various wiring harnesses and such pulled away). However, there is a bolt that holds the dip stick tube and another that holds a rather stout bracket that you just can't really see that still hold it right against the block.
Don't forget those.





New intake manifold gasket and throttle body gasket in addition to the new PCV valve and I think we're good to go.
The car starts and idles without any engine codes so I must have not messed up too badly.

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011

Grimey Drawer
I’ll be selling the 2008 Saab 9-5 linear wagon in the next month or two.
Linear trim, 2.5T. 85K miles. Mostly in good shape.
Cruise control broken, cupholder broken, but: all repair receipts, new tires, brake pads, drums, in last two years. Always garaged, always premium gas, new windshield last March. Washed v regularly all year. In Denver.
Will put some pics if anyone is actually interested.

ExecuDork
Feb 25, 2007

We might be fucked, sir.
Fallen Rib
I've decided to join your weirdo Swedish club, friends. I want to buy a 9-3 or 900 convertible, I'm in NSW, Australia - but not close to Sydney. Most of what shows up for apparently-reasonable prices ($3-5K Australian) is in one of the big metro areas so I'll probably try to line up 2 or 3 cars to go look at / test drive over some weekend.

Does anyone have any top-of-the-list kind of things to look out for? What would you look at first if you were buying a 20-or-more-years old drop-top Saab?

As tribute for my silly questions, have a few pictures of the 900 I navigated in a TSD rally nearly 10 years ago back in Canada.
SCO 2011 TSD 1 by Martin Brummell, on Flickr
SCO 2011 TSD 19 by Martin Brummell, on Flickr
SCO 2011 TSD 14 by Martin Brummell, on Flickr

Thanks to the crystal ball I found under the seat - the driver had bought the car the day before - we achieved a solid second place finish.

ExecuDork
Feb 25, 2007

We might be fucked, sir.
Fallen Rib
Nobody will ever read this, but here's the end of the story I started with the previous post, 2-and-a-half months ago.

I bought a 1998 Saab 900 S Convertible this weekend.
Buy a convertible on the coast by Martin Brummell, on Flickr
Buy a convertible on the coast by Martin Brummell, on Flickr
Buy a convertible on the coast by Martin Brummell, on Flickr
Buy a convertible on the coast by Martin Brummell, on Flickr
Buy a convertible on the coast by Martin Brummell, on Flickr
Buy a convertible on the coast by Martin Brummell, on Flickr

I live in Armidale up on the New England tablelands, the car was in Laurieton, on the coast. Massive flooding a week ago meant that all of the national parks where we'd (my wife and I) normally camp were closed; many of the seller's neighbours, houses closer to the river, had piles of flood-ruined stuff (drywall, furniture, etc.) on their front lawns. But this car was at a house up the hill, and everything went very well with the sale.

Last week there were only about 3 or 4 Saab convertibles with manual transmissions for sale in all of Australia. They're thin on the ground, especially in a COLOUR rather than the boring Australian habit of white/silver/grey (two currently for sale are black, only marginally more acceptable). I'm a little worried about finding parts, but for now it's in great shape, only about 100K km on it over 23 years. Certainly I had no issues on the ~400 km drive home yesterday - the whole way with the top down because it's glorious. Most people seem to be really down on convertibles but I absolutely love it.

There are no routes between the table and the coast that don't include some twisty bits of road, some of them very twisty indeed. The flooding caused landslides on most of the routes so we took Thunderbolt's Way both directions, about 50 km longer than the closed Oxley Highway. But that just meant more time on secondary highways in pretty empty parts of NSW, rowing through the gears under ranks of gum trees in bright autumn sunshine.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
That's in beautiful shape. I've thought about a convertible (9-3SS though), buft I'm already considering selling my Turbo X since we're driving far less. If I could get the same 10 I paid for it I'd do it now.

ExecuDork
Feb 25, 2007

We might be fucked, sir.
Fallen Rib
It is in beautiful shape. The seller - an older half-retired couple who have "too many cars" according to the better half - said they'd had it for about 2 years, and in that time they put maybe 1000 km on it. The previous-to-them owner was apparently a real estate agent who upgraded to something much newer, but I guess she didn't drive it much either because it's still sitting at 101000 km and the owner's manual says copyright 1997.

I'm from Canada, where cars are air-soluble. I lost a 1988 Prelude to the Rust Monster, and the replacement for that was officially the Rustiest BMW In Saskatchewan. Australians don't know what rust is. Other than landcruisers that get driven into the ocean, Aussie cars are pristine. This one especially so, it's remarkably clean and tidy, with no missing or broken trim or interior parts that I've seen. The rear badge is missing (the one exception), and the antenna might be jammed (the fuse is probably blown, gotta check that out), but that's it.

A Turbo X and a 9-3SS cabrio are quite different cars, no? Though I suppose either would be entirely appropriate for "driving far less" i.e. just on sunny Sundays. I can justify my carbon footprint on Sunday Drives by invoking the mental-health aspects of a joyful cruise through the countryside.

EDIT: The purpose of this car is "drive for fun". Not everybody can afford to do that, I know, but if you can, it becomes a quality-of-life improvement thing.

ExecuDork fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Apr 6, 2021

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug
I'm super jealous. That thing is so clean.

ziasquinn
Jan 1, 2006

Fallen Rib
I almost bought the saab convertible that was for sale in yosemite last month. I miss my 87 saab convertible, that thing owned.


congrats on the new car

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011

Grimey Drawer
I put the summer tires back on. I think the brake booster might be starting to go, as the brakes are hard and ineffective sometimes at first start. Some research seems to indicate it is a pain in the rear end to replace, so I’ve already mentioned to spouse that we will need to replace that and the rear muffler sometime this year.
Ended up not selling it because dang, the PHEV cars I was looking at are just stupid expensive, and this car is quite a pjngnways from dead. Studded tires solved our number 1 complaint about driving in the winter. (Sliding on ice trying to get moving).
Yay Saab!

ExecuDork
Feb 25, 2007

We might be fucked, sir.
Fallen Rib
I took mine out for a Sunday Drive, and introduced the car to it's new natural habitat: Australian gravel roads.
Sunday Drive 213 Bundarra 024 by Martin Brummell, on Flickr
Sunday Drive 213 Bundarra 015 by Martin Brummell, on Flickr

Driving topless through the evening light on red dirt and under gum trees is loving glorious. Love this car.

some_admin posted:

I put the summer tires back on. I think the brake booster might be starting to go, as the brakes are hard and ineffective sometimes at first start. Some research seems to indicate it is a pain in the rear end to replace, so I’ve already mentioned to spouse that we will need to replace that and the rear muffler sometime this year.
Ended up not selling it because dang, the PHEV cars I was looking at are just stupid expensive, and this car is quite a pjngnways from dead. Studded tires solved our number 1 complaint about driving in the winter. (Sliding on ice trying to get moving).
Yay Saab!

Studded winter tires are the best if you live somewhere with actual winter. They turned my BMW 328is into a rock-solid plow when I lived in Saskatchewan. And they pair so well with a Swedish car! My owner's manual talks much more about driving in cold weather than about hot. With lovely cartoons showing a surprised moose and an alarming skid path.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
gently caress every partmaker that lumps different parts in with the same part number. Looking at you, Bosch. I ordered the very specific alternator part for an XWD Saab and it comes with the pulley for an FWD model, which is 1/2 inch longer and won't fit.

"Just swap pulleys", is the obvious answer, right?

Old XWD pulley comes off with a normal 3-jaw.

FWD pulley is a clutch type pulley that takes a very specific 31 spline tool not in a normal pulley removal kit.

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011

Grimey Drawer
Took Saab to garage for fuel pump assembly replacement, oil change, trip check.
They did it all, replaced the fuel pump assembly. ($1100 all up!).
When I picked it up they said, might smell like gas a bit, they did have to drop the tank, and it was mostly full when I took it in!
It did smell like gas but dissipated. Until wife filled it up with gas a week later, calls me from gas station “ I heard a gurgling sound and gas started running out from under the car”…
They did not tighten the sealing ring around the top of the fuel pumps assy, so the whole thing was just sitting on the top of the tank., when she filled it all the way up, it just started running out.
They fixed it very quickly but dang, that could have ended all of us.
Wouldn’t this have thrown a code because the tank couldn’t pressurize?

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011

Grimey Drawer
So, then, two new rear tires in August, slow leaks from patches near sidewalls. $471.
And then in September, valve cover gasket, rear muffler, heater hose, wipers, hood gas struts. $1728
A week after last shop trip, check engine light, pep boys says 0303, I reset by pulling fuse but it shows up again after a few days. Shop says turbo is going, $2300. Not sure I’m ready to buy a new car yet but this will push wide over the edge. Anyhow, probably putting the turbo in it, and then buying a new phev, should I put the 9-5 on cars and bids?

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

some_admin posted:

So, then, two new rear tires in August, slow leaks from patches near sidewalls. $471.
And then in September, valve cover gasket, rear muffler, heater hose, wipers, hood gas struts. $1728
A week after last shop trip, check engine light, pep boys says 0303, I reset by pulling fuse but it shows up again after a few days. Shop says turbo is going, $2300. Not sure I’m ready to buy a new car yet but this will push wide over the edge. Anyhow, probably putting the turbo in it, and then buying a new phev, should I put the 9-5 on cars and bids?

Why spend 3 grand on it then sell it?

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011

Grimey Drawer
Because we probably won’t be able to make a snap decision to buy a new car. It will take weeks if not a couple of months. So we have to keep driving this one for a bit.
I am going to go drive an ioniq hybrid this afternoon though. I suppose it’s possible we could get the hybrid this weekend and cancel the turbo $$$$.
getting a lot of “I know I should have gone with my feelings” from spouse, she was motivated to drive a few cars at the beginning of last year.

Mario
Oct 29, 2006
It's-a-me!
It seems a bit of a stretch to conclude the turbo is going based of of P0303, but who knows what else the shop did to diagnose. P0303 is more likely ignition or fuel delivery to cylinder 3.

ExecuDork
Feb 25, 2007

We might be fucked, sir.
Fallen Rib
Meter Reader came by this morning (first time since pre-pandemic, nice to have some verification on our power bills) and we chatted for a bit. He's half-Swedish and I mentioned our Saab 900, to which he replied with a question about the brakes.

Um, should I be worried about my brakes? 1998 Saab 900 SE Convertible. Do they have a reputation for brakes that need frequent service/replacement of parts?

ExecuDork
Feb 25, 2007

We might be fucked, sir.
Fallen Rib
/\/\ S not SE

Cross-post from stupid questions

1998 Saab 900 S Convertible

Welp, it had to happen sooner or later - problems with the convertible's roof. It cannot completely close, and it cannot completely open. We can help it (push/pull on parts that don't want to move at first) get to completely open but an internal something doesn't happen so the car thinks the roof is half-closed and throws lots of "CHECK LATCHES" errors (with loud beeps) onto the info screen. Going the other way, the last thing that happens to close the roof is the rear window descends and latches into place on top of the tonneau cover, and even pushing down on it won't bring it closer than about 2 inches. If the roof is anything other than all the way open or all the way closed, various things don't work, such as the trunk release button in the driver's door. This combined with a jammed keyhole meant we couldn't even get into the trunk to see what's happening, which is where the various concerning clicking noises are coming from.

We think - and a local auto electrical specialist agrees - that one or more motors is slipping when it encounters excessive load. So, either a gear system is worn/stripped, or something is jamming a mechanism somewhere. We found some small strips of cloth jammed into a hinge during our first investigations, and it's a 24-year-old car so that kind of dirt build-up seems likely. This morning a locksmith cleared the jammed lock (the dust cover had slipped) and my plan for the weekend is to remove the rest of the fabric liner in the trunk and have a look at the roof mechanisms. All I've been able to find on-line so far are people saying things like "it's a delicate and complicated dance" and that the system is fairly complex. There is a manual handle to close the roof in the case of total power failure but that last bit of rear-window movement and latching is driven by the electrical motors only, you don't need to seal it up for a tow-truck to take it away.

The electrical shop can't get us in for another look until mid-February so I figure poking around myself won't do any real harm. And, maybe I'll need to order a part from the other side of the world that will take 2 months to get here anyways.

Anybody else had problems with their convertible roof? Or found weirdness when poking around little-investigated regions?

ExecuDork
Feb 25, 2007

We might be fucked, sir.
Fallen Rib
Update on my convertible, a car that strikes terror into professional mechanics, apparently.

NOBODY would touch this thing. As soon as I said "convertible" and "problem with the roof" the person on the other end of the phone said "Nope, sorry" and hung up.

The local auto-electrical specialist is the shining exception, a Noble and Just man with the courage to approach the gaping boot of my Saab and say "Well, I don't know how far I'll get. I mean, it's a really complicated system and I really don't know anything about convertibles" and who I could convince to just take a look at it, please. I dropped it off yesterday, told him I was willing to throw money at him just to look at it and maybe turn a wrench a little and tell me words, even if the words were "take it to Sydney to a specialist, I can't make heads nor tails of it".

Last night just before he closed he called me and said he had the likely culprit on the bench and he'd found a worn part. I said I couldn't get there in time to see it - I walked home yesterday, took about 30 minutes and I didn't feel like taking a cab but I'd see him in the morning. This morning I walked over (beautiful weather, and I need the exercise) and he showed me what's what. There's a set of gears in a housing powered by a small electric motor. He was not able to get it to do anything while in the car but on the bench he applied power and it spun. Inside the housing, one of the axles for a pair of gears is held at one end in a circular hole in the housing. This hole is supposed to be circular, but mine was distinctly oval. This, according to the Noble and Just man would allow the gears to move relative to the gears they mesh with, pushing them out of alignment and leading to the horrid clicking noise and lack of effective motion.

Plan A is I get a new or good-enough used part, ideally the whole assembly, from one of the Saab-specific parts shops / junkyards near Melbourne. Plan B, if such a part is not available, is to find a local machinist or welder who could return that oval to a circle, either by building up material around the hole, installing a bushing, or some other approach. I phoned one of the Saab specialists while I waited for the Noble and Just man to re-assemble everything "exactly as I found it" and they told me I could email the pictures I took through and they'd probably recognise what I need.

PROGRESS. Feels good.

Also, why are so many mechanics completely unwilling to touch a convertible? It's a complex mechanism, sure, but so is everything else about a car, it's not like a computer-controlled fuel-injected engine is really any simpler.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
Liability for leaks is one thing, finickyness and fragility another, plus wrench turners think working metal frames and canvas is somehow beneath them while simultaneously thinking of their mechanisms as semi-magical items of mystery.

Johnny Cache Hit
Oct 17, 2011
Ever since I sold my old Saab I’ve been regretting it. I’ve been lusting over an ‘01 9-3 Viggen and am desperate for someone to tell me to stop. That parts are impossible to get. That nobody wants to work on it. That I’ll regret it forever.

please. stop me

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
You should stop.

And buy a (my) Turbo X instead

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
I've been thinking of Saabs recently. I dunno why. I live in Finland and Saabs are common here, we used to build them! The OG 900 is the quintessential SAAB to me. I always thought it looked kinda ugly, I associate it with old men and women driving 70kph on 100kph roads despite it's turbo associations.

I've been hankering for some kind of late 80s or early 90s car to have as a project car. I was pretty set on some kind of japanese pickup or car but it's difficult, they all go for €€€€€ nowadays. Maybe that's why I am looking at Saabs.

I'm looking for something quirky or odd, but something that's also well made and preferably easy to work on and with plenty of spare parts. I think Saab parts should be easy here in the world but I dunno if they are reliable or easy to work on. I get the impression they are a good example of an engineer's car. But not sure if that's in a good way or bad way.

Here's a finnish dealer selling a 900, they had a video ad out for this car on facebook, which is.. odd? Looks nice but I would prefer a black saab, ideally a convertible. I have been reading forums too and I get the impression the 2.1 liters are better than the 2.0s engines, even in fuel economy. Then there's the talk about 8 and 16 valves, it's all a bit confusing which car comes with what but I would want a 16 valve turbo engine. A huge point of a Saab is the turbo.

https://www.rinta-jouppi.com/ajoneuvohaku/Saab/900/387287/

Edit, managed to get the video from FB. I thought it was neat:
https://i.imgur.com/OZv0sjy.mp4

His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Jun 2, 2023

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr



His Divine Shadow posted:

I'm looking for something quirky or odd, but something that's also well made and preferably easy to work on and with plenty of spare parts. I think Saab parts should be easy here in the world but I dunno if they are reliable or easy to work on. I get the impression they are a good example of an engineer's car. But not sure if that's in a good way or bad way.

Buy a Saab :)

Remember that you are talking about a 30+ year old car so any expectations of “reliable” should be tempered to match that!

But yes, the Saab is well built and designed such that it is easy to work on.
I’m in the UK and can still get parts for mine so you should have no problem! However remember that this is a 30+ y.o car so they are not always the cheapest parts or the quickest to get. And you may have rust…

You should definitely aim for a 16v engine rather than the 8v. That one in your video was a later one so more likely to be a 16v. (Early ones have flat headlights, that one is a sloping front)

The 16v came in non-turbo injection, low pressure turbo (lpt) and full pressure turbo (fpt) versions - but you can easily play with the turbo output yourself (if a PO hasn’t already done so!)

With the classic 900 (pre-gm) the 2.0 is the only real engine you will find.
The 2.1 was more used in the later gm 900 models. It is also a lot rarer (especially in the UK) so you may struggle for parts for it..

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
I'm aware yeah it's still an 80s car and all that entails, when I speak of reliability I mean, after the work has been put into it servicing it, can it be considered reliable, or is like an Italian sports car, inherently fickle?

Some saab movies:

I get the impression Saab always liked to draw parallels between the cars and it's air plane division.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyphhq47gC4

A longer saab video, though I am not a fan of the Tesla comparisons:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY-xA2w7JHQ

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Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer
I can't help noticing they didn't show the headliner, if it isn't sagging it's either been fixed or will start doing so shortly.

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