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If the admins don't want to be sued they should probably stop taking down "unauthorized" copies of the release that get posted by people who have worked on it, as that is explicitly called out in the license they're using as against the terms of the license and they could absolutely be sued for it.quote:3. License Grant. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, Licensor hereby grants You a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual (for the duration of the applicable copyright) license to exercise the rights in the Work as stated below: Right there, they're given a royalty-free perpetual license to reproduce the work. I understand that the admin team is hiding behind the twin snakes of "we're not lawyers" and "we don't actually know how to read contracts" but this is even laid out in the plain-text summary of the license, that the licensor cannot revoke distribution rights as long as they're done with attribution. Shit Fuckasaurus fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 15:18
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:It sounds like you could use at least one "external" mediator who can follow a fair and unbiased procedure in dealing with issues like this. This is pretty much spot on. quote:It does seem to be a pattern - and it's a very common problem to fall into, look at the fuckin forums we're posting on lol - and some of the allegations I've seen thrown around on Twitter are wild. Maybe they're entirely truthful and the entire team needs held upside down and shaken, maybe there's just a lot of bad blood, maybe that one ex-admin is right and it's a haven of white supremacists? I have absolutely no idea, but I don't think any satisfactory answers are going to come from the internal discussions of the very group being accused. It's mostly the first two, for the reasons in the first paragraph.
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Feb 23, 2020 19:13
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Plastik posted:If the admins don't want to be sued they should probably stop taking down "unauthorized" copies of the release that get posted by people who have worked on it, as that is explicitly called out in the license they're using as against the terms of the license and they could absolutely be sued for it. lol we ain't been taking down repos, i dunno where you heard this but your info is wrong my guy e: i guess you might be talking about the original download for the leak that contained PII that we did issue complaints against because...well, of all the PII just sitting around everywhere in that. once the leaker guy removed those parts we didn't attempt to take it down. Top Quark fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 19:14
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Top Quark posted:lol we ain't been taking down repos, i dunno where you heard this but your info is wrong my guy It doesn't have to be a repo, taking action against any copy made by someone under the license is enough. But by all means, cower behind that "not a lawyer" defense for how you don't understand how your license works and then keep telling people who have worked within that exact license how it works, I'm sure that'll work well for your "not getting sued" end goal. I'm just trying to keep you safe. If you have information in your repo that you don't want getting out AND your repo is covered by CC BY-NA-SA 3.0 then the only way to do so is to remove that info from your repo. Otherwise you have no recourse, since anyone with access to your repo can copy it with attribution and any mechanism you invoke to take it down is in violation of your license. But nobody's going to sue you over SS13 so the whole discussion is pretty lol to begin with.
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Feb 23, 2020 22:01
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literally haven't been telling you how the license works at all. i'm not entirely sure why you're mad at me or keep calling me a coward but uhh ok, thanks for your "help" friend.
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Feb 23, 2020 22:16
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I'm not mad at you, I'm just telling you that if your end goal is minimizing your risk of getting sued you need to rechart your course. I even told you how to keep your PII private (which is, again, to remove it from your repository entirely)
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Feb 24, 2020 00:49
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So i wanted to try SS13, for the first time. I read the last few pages, and i get the gist of a lot of drama, some code leaks, a unity version in the works, and people miss poo. If i want to try it first time should i do it like the OP says in use Byond? is that still the go-to to try the goon station? Also i would like to point out, I love contributing to project like this if i enjoy them. But reading all this drama makes me not want endorse any of the behavior at all, and also dont want to inconvenience future people, so unfortunately i will be sitting out (as if anybody cares).
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Feb 25, 2020 14:52
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Sigmund posted:So i wanted to try SS13, for the first time. I read the last few pages, and i get the gist of a lot of drama, some code leaks, a unity version in the works, and people miss poo. If i want to try it first time should i do it like the OP says in use Byond? is that still the go-to to try the goon station? byond goonstation is still the main one yeah. and for the record I started playing a few months after poo was removed, which was 2012
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Feb 25, 2020 15:34
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so now that The poo poo is out in the open can we know who was insistent on keeping DWAINE, aka the thing nobody likes or uses, around e: also poo was and is gross and i fully approve of it's removal
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Feb 25, 2020 15:39
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DWAINE loving rules take that back
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Feb 25, 2020 15:58
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Sigmund posted:So i wanted to try SS13, for the first time. I read the last few pages, and i get the gist of a lot of drama, some code leaks, a unity version in the works, and people miss poo. If i want to try it first time should i do it like the OP says in use Byond? is that still the go-to to try the goon station? people missing poo is more of a nostalgia thing. i think overall its removal made the game more enjoyable because not every round now revolves around smearing every person and surface with the stinky stuff. but it was funny as hell to whip a turd at a sec officer and have them try and murder you for it. that said all the "drama" is not stuff you see in game. it's all behind the scenes stuff that just affects anybody dumb enough to care about it. you can play on goonstation and not be aware in the slightest of what's going on with the admins. Darkman Fanpage fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 17:06
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Yinlock posted:so now that The poo poo is out in the open can we know who was insistent on keeping DWAINE, aka the thing nobody likes or uses, around i like and use dwaine, though
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Feb 25, 2020 17:14
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dwaine owns
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Feb 25, 2020 18:31
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[cypress hill voice] got dwaine in the membrane insane cause of dwaine
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Feb 25, 2020 18:43
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The computer stuff in SS13 is kind of amazing and I'm glad that silly nerdy things like the packet system exist. But I'm also a huge scrub who prefers ThinkDOS.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:10
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Dwaine is neat and I enjoy it, but it isn’t a good fit gameplay-wise at all imo.
Vengarr fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 21:29
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tweet my meat posted:DWAINE loving rules take that back i was probably being a bit harsh but Vengarr posted:it isn’t a good fit gameplay-wise at all imo.
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Feb 25, 2020 22:22
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dwaine would be better if its usage was less obtuse and there was more useful poo poo built-in. you can make scripts for dwaine that automate some of the poo poo you can do with it but the only option for programming them is to paste them line-by-line (or autohotkey it  )there are also enough little issues with it that get in the way of doing fun things though, due to wonky argument processing / escaping / god knows what else. Anticheese posted:The computer stuff in SS13 is kind of amazing and I'm glad that silly nerdy things like the packet system exist. But I'm also a huge scrub who prefers ThinkDOS. thinkdos is good but it needs more programs.
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Feb 25, 2020 23:14
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DWAINE and ThinkDOS are clearly (imo) jokes by people who understood the differences between real Unix and real DOS. Unix is overcomplex and impenetrable and badly designed but powerful once you learn it deeply, DOS is easier for beginners to understand but extremely limited so nobody bothers to write jack for it once a more featureful operating system is also available, even if it’s poo poo. Could you design one command line system that combined the best attributes of both? Sure, we even have real life examples to crib from, but I’d argue that what’s there is thematically on brand. Can’t have critical SS13 systems be well designed and powerful at the same time. If it can get poo poo done, it needs to be a janky mess.
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Feb 25, 2020 23:43
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BobHoward posted:Can’t have critical SS13 systems be well designed and powerful at the same time. If it can get poo poo done, it needs to be a janky mess. Dear god no. Every other server has moved away from that thinking with good reason. It just empowers turbo nerds to the exclusion of everyone else.
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Feb 25, 2020 23:53
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I would gladly buy a 12-telecrystal traitor item that causes the entire packet network to not only fully encrypt itself, but to also refresh its encryption key every minute, thus ruining the fun of all nerds everywhere forever, especially if this means telling the Mechanics to go pound sand 
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Feb 26, 2020 00:14
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Vengarr posted:Dear god no. Every other server has moved away from that thinking with good reason. It just empowers turbo nerds to the exclusion of everyone else. ideally there would be a little of both, so that you can do a lot of things without needing to be some packet nerd, but you could still do some powerful stuff with it right now it's just kind of a cluster
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Feb 26, 2020 00:58
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BobHoward posted:DWAINE and ThinkDOS are clearly (imo) jokes by people who understood the differences between real Unix and real DOS. Unix is overcomplex and impenetrable and badly designed but powerful once you learn it deeply, DOS is easier for beginners to understand but extremely limited so nobody bothers to write jack for it once a more featureful operating system is also available, even if it’s poo poo. AngriestIBM is our resident DWAINE and ThinkDOS implementer/mad computer scientist
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Feb 26, 2020 01:29
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Fun fact: The last time I complained about DWAINE, a couple seconds after I hit enter in my IRC client, my cable modem made a loud POP noise and let the magic smoke out. I just sort of assumed it was AIBM doing it... somehow, and haven't mentioned it since. I'm a little scared my computer will punch me in the taint the instant I hit 'submit reply'. If I edit in a couple minutes with 'ow', then you know not to dare question DWAINE, I guess.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:06
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BobHoward posted:DOS is easier for beginners to understand but extremely limited That's completely wrong. DOS is easier to understand because it's a barebones toy OS. No memory protection, no bloat, no features you don't need. If you want to write software and you don't want to have to deal with the bureaucracy involved in "proper" kernels, DOS is the premiere platform to do it in. Or at least it was until templeOS was finished, which has a few more QoL features and doesn't run in realmode. DOS is barely even a kernel, it's more like an x86 bootloader with a slim shell on top and a couple of simple drivers. We don't use it anymore because it's a security nightmare. Those bothersome low-level bureaucracies exist for a reason. It is the exact opposite of limited, and that's the problem.
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Feb 29, 2020 02:11
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You might want to reread what I said a little more carefully without the THIS GUY DONT KNOW poo poo filter turned on. The fact that DOS is almost featureless out of the box was in fact my point; “limited” was just my apparently inscrutable shorthand way of saying so, not anything to do with security or whatever else you were ranting about. This is way more internet slapfight than I expected over that post lol
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Feb 29, 2020 03:06
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Can someone please finally tell me what the recipe for quark gluon plasma was?
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Feb 29, 2020 14:18
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lol if you don't use your pda radio as an all access card
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Feb 29, 2020 16:29
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Joke Miriam posted:Can someone please finally tell me what the recipe for quark gluon plasma was? 13u Voltagen, 3u something, 1u sorium, and 1u LDM mixed in that order to form the condensate. From ther you just heat it to 6344K to ignite it.
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Feb 29, 2020 21:43
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The ex-admins posted in admin complaints about why they left. Great read for anyone curious about why so many well known coders/mins left. Goon station forums post Back up in case it's deleted. Communist Q fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Mar 1, 2020 |
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Mar 1, 2020 16:53
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All of those reasons made sense more or less on why people left. Reading that did confirm a lot of my beliefs about what was going on behind the scenes. Also the politics pushers are real and very, very annoying in the discord. The game server itself is fine. Well at least the link between SA and Goonstation is 
Top Hats Monthly fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Mar 1, 2020 |
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Mar 1, 2020 16:57
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Communist Q posted:The ex-admins posted in admin complaints about why they left. Great read for anyone curious about why so many well known coders/mins left. after all these years it will never cease to amaze me how loving dramatic people get over this goddamn spaceman poo poo
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Mar 1, 2020 17:23
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The drama is funny but it also bums me out that I’ve played for over a decade and it’s now completely unrecognizable community wise.
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Mar 1, 2020 17:28
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Good riddance
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Mar 1, 2020 18:15
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Communist Q posted:The ex-admins posted in admin complaints about why they left. Great read for anyone curious about why so many well known coders/mins left. edit: also some interesting points in one of their other posts in which they complain that the uppity LGBT agenda is being forced down their throat or something quote:Last time I checked, the server had a ruleset against bigotry, slurs, and general hate speech, not a ruleset against hate speech towards particular nationality/gender/race/sexual orientation. Just because certain people (you included) have decided to make it their agenda to push and promote a certain community within this server (The LGBTQ+ community) doesn't exactly mean that you can push past the set rules of the server and just pick and choose on what is allowed and what is not without a consensus. So what is exactly the issue with that, a server ruleset that has not been updated to reflect the ideals of the server or a very loud minority within the server that is pushing their views and beliefs onto everyone? Lunchmeat Larry fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Mar 1, 2020 |
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Mar 1, 2020 18:29
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Happy to see that the admins now participate in assday 
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Mar 1, 2020 18:32
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cliques are silly
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Mar 1, 2020 18:42
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Without any kind of formal conflict resolution measure, implosions are bound to happen. I mean, you can look at literally any political organization, company, union, town hall, whatever, and see that those implosions happen regardless, because organizing people into groups is hard, but without some kind of mediating mechanisms or formal rules those outbursts will tend to kind of regularly destroy large parts of your organization. Been thinking about what else to say after peering at the log images posted, and trying to choose my words very carefully. I think an effort was made to try paint one party as being disproportionately the problem, and that it wasn't very successful. It at least appears that a huge part of the problem was a lack of any kind of overarching structure or organization to mediate the 'council' or its discussions. This allowed some dumb poo poo to be said and done, by multiple parties, and lead to the same sort of escalation you see almost everywhere in life and the internet in an age of increasing radicalization, awareness, and atomization. If you don't commit to certain values and enforce them (whether its progressive values, which I would personally favor, or at least non-political values, which I disfavor but which would at least also be effective for maintaining group cohesion), then you are always going to have open warfare over the heart of your organization (as opposed to clandestine warfare, which at least tends to be more manageable). Having a secretive grand council accountable to nothing and no one will tend to encourage that sort of conflict, and you're deluding yourself if you think that people aren't pushing a political agenda themselves when they're complaining about being forced to acknowledge the existence of, for example, inclusive politics. for my part, I don't want to be a part of spacemans that isn't okay with being gay and doing crimes, but if you at least put that in a value statement and put someone in charge of enforcing it, people who do want that will know to avoid said toxic server and maybe the management wouldn't regularly explode and goonstation could peacefully peter out into the long dark quietly lol. 'all cops are bastards is an offensive statement' indeed Worth bearing in mind that I'm a big dumb idiot and have no idea how to get to a functioning organization from the smoking, drama-filled crater that appears to be the current organization, but I figured it probably wouldn't do too much harm to at least offer my big dumb thoughts.
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Mar 1, 2020 19:46
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I am utterly baffled by the concept that a rule against bigotry, slurs and general hate speech does not include “hate speech towards a particular nationality/gender/race/sexual orientation” what the gently caress Like how can you make that statement and not immediately have a cognitive dissonance episode
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Mar 1, 2020 20:20
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I keep blacking out halfway through that due to paradox
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