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Leal posted:Hey I'm just saying, love your enthusiasm but the second you overthrow the yoke I'm sitting my rear end down and collecting my coupons and rations and whenever someone knocks on my door asking to participate in some mass media production for no further benefit I'll slam the door mostly shut, because the forfeiture of property means I can't shut my door fully. I will however reach my arm out and give them a middle finger through the legally allowed gap in the door. You’re desire for quiet seclusion is also a product of the alienation of capitalism, hth
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Feb 26, 2020 22:49
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Jimbot posted:A community coming together and supporting each other isn't Star Trek utopia, it's the basis of many anti-capitalist societies. It's the elimination of private property and surplus wealth and the seizure of the means of production, which is what the capitalist own and siphon from their workers. Eliminate the capitalist and you eliminate the person who makes 500 times as much as you do a hour. You eliminate the person who spends their vast wealth to ensure you stay poor and they stay wealthy. That step allows you, the worker, to benefit greatly and through direct democracy have a say in the direction of the place in which you work. After that, you can move towards eliminating wealth itself and set up a federation of communes who work to fulfill the needs of yours and other communities. As somebody who comes from a working class family that lived in a communist country this sounds like a totally unrealistic utopian scenario. All you're doing here is taking away power from one person who gamed the system and giving it to the people who figure out the fastest ways to game the new system.
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Feb 26, 2020 22:49
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Jimbot posted:A community coming together and supporting each other... a federation of communes who work to fulfill the needs of yours and other communities. That never happened and never will happen, at least not across something the size of a country. Maybe within a tiny village or whatever where everyone knows and has a reason to care about each other, but strangers generally don't care that much and wouldn't trust each other even if they did. That's why we humans invented money, so we have some sort of objective measure of value that makes it easier for strangers to deal with one another. Bakeneko fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 22:50
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Augus posted:You’re desire for quiet seclusion is also a product of the alienation of capitalism, hth i can't even tell if posts like these are jokes any more
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Feb 26, 2020 22:52
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Duke Nukem Forever is such a bad example because it didn't fail because they had unlimited money to spend on it, it failed because it was a trend chasing mess with no coherent identity of its own. It didn't transform into a good game once the money ran out and Gearbox completed the production under strict capitalist deadlines either, strangely enough.
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Feb 26, 2020 22:52
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Bakeneko posted:That never happened and never will happen, at least not across something the size of a country. Maybe within a tiny village or whatever where everyone knows and has a reason to care about each other, but strangers generally don't care that much and wouldn't trust each other even if they did. That's why we humans invented money, so we have some sort of objective measure of value that makes it easier for strangers to deal with one another.
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Feb 26, 2020 23:15
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Ghostlight posted:When we invented money it was done on the village scale and was not ever an objective measure of value for trade with strangers, necessitating the invention of money changers who did not exchange money on an objective basis of its value but on their subjective needs as an economic entity servicing fluctuating supply and demand based on trade frequency and desirability. Money has, poetically, become more objective as it has become less real, because the objective value it represents is production - even when money had inherent value in the sense that it was made of actual precious metals worth a face value, that metal only ever represented excess productive ability to pull it out of the ground and shape it into a token to be exchanged. At least, in those societies who used metal-backed currency. Okay so it’s not perfect, but it’s a lot closer to being objective than bartering and exchanging favors, which is what preceded it and is what Jimbot appears to be suggesting. And it does make trading with people you don't know and trust much easier.
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Feb 26, 2020 23:28
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i have both alone and in groups created art and media just for the joy and love of the art and media without any wish or expectations of compensation hth
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Feb 26, 2020 23:29
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James Rolfe talks about The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari and its 100 year anniversary. https://youtu.be/D3EGeYvgl-A It's a pretty good video to explain that carefully explains why the movie is so influential, but it's a pretty dry rundown of it. Still, I enjoyed the side trivia James added
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Feb 26, 2020 23:49
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Archer666 posted:As somebody who comes from a working class family that lived in a communist country this sounds like a totally unrealistic utopian scenario. All you're doing here is taking away power from one person who gamed the system and giving it to the people who figure out the fastest ways to game the new system. There's no system to game. There's no centralize power structure for a few to exploit. This sort of thing isn't utopian because that implies it is the end-state and the revolutionary movement that helped bring it about just stops. The struggle doesn't stop at that point because there will be problems that need to be solving. Bakeneko posted:That never happened and never will happen, at least not across something the size of a country. Maybe within a tiny village or whatever where everyone knows and has a reason to care about each other, but strangers generally don't care that much and wouldn't trust each other even if they did. That's why we humans invented money, so we have some sort of objective measure of value that makes it easier for strangers to deal with one another. We grow up in a society that encourages self-interest and alienation and even that is starting to fail because in our self-interest we would do our best to keep ourselves healthy but because medical debt is a thing we choose between being healthy or being fed and housed and clothed. But you have to ask yourself, why are we so distrustful of strangers? If it's because they mean us harm, why? To what end? For our material possessions? As related to the thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTMnYJhzSbQ
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Feb 26, 2020 23:51
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The difference between selling labour for six discs to buy a day's worth of food for five discs and selling labour for a day's worth of food isn't objectivity or ease but fine-grained recognition of the value of that labour. Money as it exists now certainly makes trading easier because its abstract value is guaranteed by a third-party with a (theoretical) vested economic interest in maintaining that value - money as it existed for thousands of years did not serve as a vessel of trust in trading with strangers because the inherent value in bartering a clay pot is the pot, while the inherent value in a forged metal disc is the metal which, it turns out, is easy to forge. That's where the trope of merchants biting coins comes from - it's a quick way to test the softness of the metal for substitutions. The ease it offered for trading was never trustworthiness but portability.
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Feb 26, 2020 23:52
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Jimbot posted:We grow up in a society that encourages self-interest and alienation and even that is starting to fail because in our self-interest we would do our best to keep ourselves healthy but because medical debt is a thing we choose between being healthy or being fed and housed and clothed. But you have to ask yourself, why are we so distrustful of strangers? If it's because they mean us harm, why? To what end? For our material possessions? A certain amount of mistrust is instinctual. I mentioned this the last time this topic came up, but humans aren’t purely rational beings; in many ways we’re still driven by instincts we evolved as cavemen, at a time when anything unknown could be a potential threat. No matter how much rationality we layer on top of that, and no matter how some individuals may choose not to act on it, it’s always going to be a part of us as a species.
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Feb 27, 2020 00:15
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Smash capitalism. Just my two cents. GB or BB checks out Titanic II.
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Feb 27, 2020 00:31
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FoldableHuman posted:Hell, might as well sit here and go "well, if we do away with aristocratic patronage how will we ever get Shakespeare?!"
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Feb 27, 2020 00:39
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There sure is a lot of Capitalist Realism in here.
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Feb 27, 2020 00:43
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Capitalism sucks poo poo and billionaires should be burned at the stake.
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Feb 27, 2020 00:49
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Yardbomb posted:Capitalism sucks poo poo and billionaires should be burned at the stake. 
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Feb 27, 2020 00:51
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Bakeneko posted:A certain amount of mistrust is instinctual. I mentioned this the last time this topic came up, but humans aren’t purely rational beings; in many ways we’re still driven by instincts we evolved as cavemen, at a time when anything unknown could be a potential threat. No matter how much rationality we layer on top of that, and no matter how some individuals may choose not to act on it, it’s always going to be a part of us as a species. Cavemen were communists who had more free time than you do now.
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Feb 27, 2020 01:22
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Yardbomb posted:Capitalism sucks poo poo and billionaires should be burned at the stake. personally, I oppose violence against women. but I respect your opinion
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Feb 27, 2020 01:24
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:personally, I oppose violence against women. but I respect your opinion 
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Feb 27, 2020 01:37
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Solar Tornado posted:James Rolfe talks about The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari and its 100 year anniversary. i still think him talking about movie stuff is his best work.
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Feb 27, 2020 01:51
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It is not against the rules to defend capitalism ITT, but also, lmao, just lmao, if you do
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Feb 27, 2020 01:53
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I think there are some elements of pop art nowadays that would be incompatible with a communist system. You wouldn't have billions of dollars invested into producing a single IP movie in as short of a period of time as possible. The level of production we have in Hollywood right now is probably impossible to achieve without some sort of massive state grant. However, people will still be creative and a LOT of pop culture phenomena are cheap and sometimes the work of one person doing something else to pay their bills. Homestuck was a thing, Undertale, Youtube webseries, a lot of literature and manga (OPM comes to mind)... Art is gonna be an essential thing anyway, and the motto is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", right? Maybe that person is excused by their peers because they want to see his next production rather than work four extra hours or so.
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Feb 27, 2020 01:55
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i still think him talking about movie stuff is his best work. As long as it isn't with the Rental Reviews crowd. I find a few of those guys insanely grating.
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Feb 27, 2020 02:25
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It's pretty funny to say that only capitalism can make films when the Soviet Union set up the world's first film school, pioneered modern film editing, and was putting out stuff like Battleship Potemkin while the US, despite a 100-year advantage in industrialization and a mountain of colonial plunder, was mostly putting out forgettable trash (the majority of which, relating to the conversation, is now lost). Artists can exist without Harvey Weinstein, even if Harvey Weinstein can't exist without artists.
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Feb 27, 2020 02:32
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Investors are parasites.
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Feb 27, 2020 02:33
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Archer666 posted:As somebody who comes from a working class family that lived in a communist country this sounds like a totally unrealistic utopian scenario. All you're doing here is taking away power from one person who gamed the system and giving it to the people who figure out the fastest ways to game the new system. It's fun to play this game of "Make up the worst thing that can happen that capitalism protects us from" with your real life, too. Watch: "What if tomorrow, I walk outside and a gorilla crushes me with his big meaty hands? Thank god for capitalism!"
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Feb 27, 2020 02:41
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it's a controversial opinion but for the abolishment of a system that destructively pits humanity against itself in a tireless struggle to economically imprison others to escape their own i am willing to sacrifice all the possible future star wars films that will otherwise be made under that system.
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Feb 27, 2020 03:00
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Cavemen were communists who had more free time than you do now. The average serf in your standard literally feudalist medieval society had more free time to pursue their passions than the modern human! It absolutely 100% cannot be overstated how much the industrial revolution loving obliterated the lives of the common worker and entirety of our ancestral family looks at us and calls us suckers for taking this Devils bargain.
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Feb 27, 2020 03:22
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Nuns with Guns posted:It's fun to play this game of "Make up the worst thing that can happen that capitalism protects us from" with your real life, too. I thank Capitalism every day for protecting me from being mauled by a Giant Panda.
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Feb 27, 2020 04:59
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Nuebot posted:I thank Capitalism every day for protecting me from being mauled by a Giant Panda. Buddy, I got bad news for you... don't turn around.
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Feb 27, 2020 05:42
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:The average serf in your standard literally feudalist medieval society had more free time to pursue their passions than the modern human! It absolutely 100% cannot be overstated how much the industrial revolution loving obliterated the lives of the common worker and entirety of our ancestral family looks at us and calls us suckers for taking this Devils bargain. A firm rule must be imposed upon our nation before it destroys itself. The United States needs some theology and geometry, some taste and decency. I suspect that we are teetering on the edge of the abyss.
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Feb 27, 2020 10:05
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Microcline posted:It's pretty funny to say that only capitalism can make films when the Soviet Union set up the world's first film school, pioneered modern film editing, and was putting out stuff like Battleship Potemkin while the US, despite a 100-year advantage in industrialization and a mountain of colonial plunder, was mostly putting out forgettable trash (the majority of which, relating to the conversation, is now lost). Soviet Union cinema industry was nearly as ruthless and profit-driven as Hollywood, just without art-loving investors ready to burn money on passion projects. Tarkovsky wasnt shunned by Goskino bosses and driven to emigration for being ideologically impure, audiences wanted silly comedies, musicals, spy mysteries and high-budget epics instead of degenerate bourgeousian reflexive dramas. fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Feb 27, 2020 |
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Feb 27, 2020 10:44
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I saw a new Mother's Basement video and that it was on One Piece(a notable void in his video topics) and was like "haha, finally" and then I saw it was "part 1" and let out an evil cackle another one is claimed by the One Piece fandom. there is no escaping it, once you dive in, you can never return https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHGO9JyTLYE&hd=1
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Feb 27, 2020 11:47
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It's a pet peeve of mine that people act like any movement toward socialism would involve total anarchy. There'd still be some responsibility, accountability and oversight (for good or bad). Hell, it could be as easy as something like wider votes that spread out art grants or something, but we're all spitballing so who knows. It is a little funny to have this discussion, with seemingly sincere capitalist defenders, in this thread where at least a decent portion content creators (and a majority of people on the platform) are people barely getting by on ad revenue and a wide base of donations, but choosing to make their own form of art regardless, for fun or fulfillment. How many times have we had the discussion about how relatively little they're paid for the bullshit they have to deal with? How many creators and podcasters have side jobs to support their hobby? How many of the big deal corporate-style moneymakers are liked in this thread? Also we made it this far without mentioning the anti-DNF, the Dead Cells developers being an anarcho-syndicalist company and still putting out a seemingly successful game. I assume that they haven't burned their goodwill yet. For content, NyxFears did a quick review of The Boy 2:  . She just did a vlog style video since she's recovering from the flu, and brought up an interesting general conflict about whether it'd be better for her to do more vlog-style "desk" reviews or fewer high-production effort videos. Which is a question for the ages and seems like the existential hell that all YouTubers face.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:20
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:It is a little funny to have this discussion, with seemingly sincere capitalist defenders, in this thread where at least a decent portion content creators (and a majority of people on the platform) are people barely getting by on ad revenue and a wide base of donations, but choosing to make their own form of art regardless, for fun or fulfillment. How many times have we had the discussion about how relatively little they're paid for the bullshit they have to deal with? How many creators and podcasters have side jobs to support their hobby? How many of the big deal corporate-style moneymakers are liked in this thread? I actually support policies like having a robust welfare state that exists in parallel to capitalism in order to compensate for its problems.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:37
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Bakeneko posted:Accepting that something is here to stay is not the same thing as defending it. I could also state that everyone alive is going to die sometime, but that doesn't mean I think death is a good thing; just that it's a fact of life we have to put up with. Capitalism is absolutely not here to stay considering it hinges on infinite growth
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Feb 27, 2020 12:48
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Also we made it this far without mentioning the anti-DNF, the Dead Cells developers being an anarcho-syndicalist company and still putting out a seemingly successful game. I assume that they haven't burned their goodwill yet. IIRC they burned a lot of their goodwill when they started a subsidiary that went back to a capitalist structure, can't remember their reasoning though.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:50
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Andrast posted:Capitalism is absolutely not here to stay considering it hinges on infinite growth Yeah, it's a completely broken system that is destined to destroy itself
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Feb 27, 2020 13:00
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Judging by how things are going, the replacement is not looking good either
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Feb 27, 2020 13:02
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