|
ashpanash posted:Because Gene Roddenberry had some dumb (but noble) ideas and in early TNG Wesley made a much maligned statement asking "why would anyone do drugs?!?!?!?" (Especially funny because of how much of a cokehead Roddenberry historically was) "Because it's fun Wesley, you loving dork. Now cut me a fat rail and leave the hypospray. I've got bridge duty in an hour." Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Feb 28, 2020 |
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 17:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 23:09 |
|
|
The Bloop posted:Would you force/trick someone into taking the anti-depression hypospray if they didn't want it, or even actively refused it? I guess the only point I'm trying to make is that in the trappings of star trek, shes not a tragic figure -- she's an rear end in a top hat. The show, to me, has not breached the question of "why, with all the resources available to her, and the removal of many of the causes of addiction in our present society, does she decide to continue being an addict". The element is there, it's not incongruent with the universe, but the show (so far) has not had anything more to say about it than "some people just want to be addicts".
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 17:59
|
|
|
piratepilates posted:I guess the only point I'm trying to make is that in the trappings of star trek, shes not a tragic figure -- she's an rear end in a top hat. Some people have mental problems severe enough that addiction is an easy way to escape, and actual therapy seems incredibly daunting. Many people with depression and anxiety never get it properly treated, because part of the problem is how loving hard it makes it to take even baby steps forward. It's extremely reductive to call her an rear end in a top hat just because addiction therapy might be easier in the future and she still doesn't do it, especially given the context (she's drinking to forget about the fact that her son, basically her last motivation to not let her life completely fall apart, literally told her to gently caress off and never contact him again). If your take on Raffi is "some people just want to be addicts" and not "Fully Automated Space Communism doesn't mean automatic perfect mental health for everybody" you're ignoring a lot of her character. It also tracks with basically every other main character we've met so far - in a perfect world, Rios wouldn't be haunted by PTSD from his time in Starfleet, Picard wouldn't be traumatized by his time as Locutus, Seven wouldn't have gone back to the club, and Jurati would have had more appropriate ways of dealing with grief than sleeping with Rios. None of them are assholes, they are imperfect. Raffi just seems to have more baggage and a harder time dealing with it in a healthy manner. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Feb 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:05
|
|
|
piratepilates posted:That's what's so odd about it, in the premise of the world of star trek she is playacting as an addict. Her life is a holodeck scenario of a 21st century person in need who is let down by the system. She can take that free Hypospray and be done with it, but instead she is choosing to be selfish and self-destruct. It's not that she can't get better or doesn't know how -- she doesn't want to, even when detrimental to the lives of those around her. As a recovering addict, I can tell you with certainty that this is basically textbook addict behavior.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:06
|
|
|
Lizard Combatant posted:
I mean obviously not, but also same answer now and forever for all things
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:07
|
|
|
piratepilates posted:That's what's so odd about it, in the premise of the world of star trek she is playacting as an addict. Her life is a holodeck scenario of a 21st century person in need who is let down by the system. She can take that free Hypospray and be done with it, but instead she is choosing to be selfish and self-destruct. It's not that she can't get better or doesn't know how -- she doesn't want to, even when detrimental to the lives of those around her. Drink-Mix Man posted:As a recovering addict, I can tell you with certainty that this is basically textbook addict behavior. Yeah, I was about to say, "You just described addiction."
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:11
|
|
|
I'm also really not sure how her addictions are detrimental to those around her, rather than a personal self-destructive spiral. She managed to get through the call, and her broken relationship with her son was pretty explicitly due to the conspiracy theories, with the addiction as an extra. There hasn't really been a "a key part of the mission goes sideways because Raffi is too hosed-up to function" moment and I don't know if there will be, since IMO they're pretty clearly trying to frame her addiction as a symbol of how broken she is, not how selfish she is. To be clear I'm not arguing that all addicts are complete victims, but again, it seems like a really reductive take on this character to just call her an rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:13
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:I mean obviously not, but also same answer now and forever for all things Lol. I really need to stop using rhetorical headers to my arguments. Someone inevitably just quotes it in isolation. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:24
|
|
|
Snow Cone Capone posted:I think the overarching theme so far is that he's letting himself be blinded to certain realities in his quest to redeem himself. We saw it with Seven, we saw it with Raffi multiple times, and with his decision to just waltz into Starfleet and ask for a ship. I agree. Which makes the way that scene plays with Picard applauding and the TNG music swelling so tonally off. Imagine the exact same scene without the music. I think everyone in the audience would immediately think "oh poo poo this guy's a dick". But he's consistently a dick at least, from recruiting and using vulnerable people, engineering a bar fight to get what he wants and either being stupid or complicit in allowing multiple murders by Seven. Either someone in the show isn't totally comfortable with these portrayals and is using music to try and reframe these moments or they don't understand the characters as they're being written. To be clear, I was only talking about the music in that scene. Not that I think it's completely out of character for this version of Picard.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:40
|
|
|
Snow Cone Capone posted:I'm also really not sure how her addictions are detrimental to those around her, rather than a personal self-destructive spiral. She managed to get through the call, and her broken relationship with her son was pretty explicitly due to the conspiracy theories, with the addiction as an extra. There hasn't really been a "a key part of the mission goes sideways because Raffi is too hosed-up to function" moment and I don't know if there will be, since IMO they're pretty clearly trying to frame her addiction as a symbol of how broken she is, not how selfish she is. I was going to bring up the call with Emmy at the start of this episode where Raffi forces her in to jeopardizing her career to let them in to the cube, but thinking back I don't think that's drawn as a result of her addiction, she just happened to be drunk while doing it. The son I put down as more a consequence of her addiction (I recall there being a line about how he's heard her claiming she's clean before, said with distrust. I can't go back and look for it now though) , but yeah there is definitely that weird angle of the conspiracy she was pursuing thrown in. I can see the reading that her "choosing" to be an addict is a consequence of the direction her life has gone, instead of being the driving force behind it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:43
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:Would you force/trick someone into taking the anti-depression hypospray if they didn't want it, or even actively refused it? Yes, definitely. Let em choose to wallow with the anti-depression poo poo. There's more important poo poo than individual liberty at all times.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:43
|
|
|
Lizard Combatant posted:I agree. O yeah the music was super loving random
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:46
|
|
|
Raffi reminds me of the Maquis.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:47
|
|
|
Tighclops posted:Raffi reminds me of the Maquis. Why?
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:47
|
|
|
Decent concept, strange execution I’m guessing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:50
|
|
|
I guess I just don't see Raffi as being strangely executed; she's a pretty textbook "person with mental issues/a huge chip on their shoulder turns to addiction to cope" character.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:54
|
|
|
Snow Cone Capone posted:I guess I just don't see Raffi as being strangely executed; she's a pretty textbook "person with mental issues/a huge chip on their shoulder turns to addiction to cope" character. Raffi herself I get, and the actress is definitely giving it her all, but the strange execution comes from how the show is treating her at times. You’re clearly meant to laugh at her drunkenly daring the admiral to give them their clearance, that’s why Picard stands and applauds, but the scene is kinda hosed up when you consider the bridges she just burned, as others have noted. The show slaloms back and forth between treating her like a lovable “Thats our Raffi!” drunk in some scenes and trying to tell an earnest story about addiction and its serious consequences in others. It’s a very weird tone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 18:59
|
|
|
Snow Cone Capone posted:I guess I just don't see Raffi as being strangely executed; she's a pretty textbook "person with mental issues/a huge chip on their shoulder turns to addiction to cope" character. Yeah my issues with their choices aside, there's there's nothing wrong with her character or the actor's portrayal from an accuracy standpoint.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 19:02
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Raffi herself I get, and the actress is definitely giving it her all, but the strange execution comes from how the show is treating her at times. You’re clearly meant to laugh at her drunkenly daring the admiral to give them their clearance, that’s why Picard stands and applauds, but the scene is kinda hosed up when you consider the bridges she just burned, as others have noted. The show slaloms back and forth between treating her like a lovable “Thats our Raffi!” drunk in some scenes and trying to tell an earnest story about addiction and its serious consequences in others. It’s a very weird tone. Ok, this makes sense, and I agree. I think the argument could be made in theory that it's intentional, the writers are trying to show how easily people can gloss over the problems that addicts and/or the mentally ill may be going through. I personally had at least a couple of friends in college where I eventually realized that a lot of their wacky or random or weird behaviors, many of which were actually fairly endearing, were direct results of either hard drug/alcohol addiction, or massive depression, and I know a lot of people never really realized "hey this person is on the edge of a total meltdown." ...but in reality I wouldn't give this show's writers that much credit, especially since basically right afterwards, we're shown Picard's traumas and they're dealt with in a much more compassionate fashion. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Feb 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 19:05
|
|
|
Yeah even Elnor points out Picard is too wrapped up in his own poo poo to notice Agnes' distress. Same goes for Raffi, everyone except Picard seems to realise she's not in a good way. I'll forgive him for the moment since the idea of going to the cube was obviously very traumatic for him.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 19:05
|
|
|
Picard not realizing how bad her addiction is doesn’t make sense to me given that it’s a huge part of their very first conversation and he presumably knows about her issues with it in the past. I can kinda understand it if it’s part of Ahab Picard keeping a laser focus on the mission at the expense of everyone around him, but that applause scene is still weird as poo poo because the show definitely doesn’t treat it like JL using someone to achieve his goal.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 19:09
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Picard not realizing how bad her addiction is doesn’t make sense to me given that it’s a huge part of their very first conversation and he presumably knows about her issues with it in the past. It's the Ahab thing. He's so focused on his own goals he's blind to the realities around him. You can see it when Raffi hits the vape in front of him - he's disapproving, not concerned. I really do wonder if they'll explore that concept, maybe in S2. I don't want a whole season of people telling Picard how bad their lives got hosed up in his orbit, but it might be nice if he actually felt some consequences and learned from them. Another place you see him glossing over things: He gets mad at Elnor for killing the Romulan senator. He doesn't express remorse for the death itself, or guilt that he caused it, just annoyance that Elnor did exactly what Elnor was supposed to do - be a warrior, defend his pledge, offer an opportunity for the opponents to walk away. Again, I do think this could lead to something interesting - tangible personal growth/development for a well-established main character would be nice, but I doubt it. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Feb 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 19:14
|
|
|
Yeah, him applauding was completely baffling. Once again, is this the Rick Sanchez version of Picard? At least Raffi's scenes didn't feel shoehorned in this week. This episode was a massive improvement over last week, although it still feels like it should have been Episode 3 or 4 instead of 6. Elnor staying behind hopefully means we're not one and done with Hugh as we were with Seven, and I do like him as a character in the Spock/Data vein. But I still find it hilarious that they basically just copy/pasted a Jedi into Star Trek. Not sure where things are going with Rios, but I think I can come to enjoy him given further character development. The Romulan path ritual felt to me like their equivalent of the Vulcan mind-meld, perhaps losing the element of touch due to cultural drift toward secrecy and privacy over time. That's cool, I had hoped Trek would explore the Romulan equivalents of the Vulcan psychic powers if they ever delved further into the Romulans. And Treadaway is vastly less annoying once he doesn't have to pull off the low-quality seduction dialogue. Lastly, I don't want to lean too hard into idolizing a murderous sociopath, but if Garak were on this show, both of those Romulans would just suddenly turn up dead while he quietly hemmed pants in the background.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 19:20
|
|
|
The problem with Picard is we don't care about enough of the characters. Picard aside, the only compelling ones IMO are Hughes and Elnor. Seven was good, but she only lasted an episode, and Picard's Romulan roommates on Earth were pretty cool too, wish they'd tagged along. But yeah, Latino Han Solo, Not Ro Laren, and Dr. Murder have fallen completely flat for me. Narek at least is a little interesting, but they dragged his stuff out way too long.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 19:24
|
|
|
Also, thinking about it, I've revised my opinion on The Big Romulan Secret from Romulans created synths who turned into Borg-style collective, and they have knowledge that a dozen other species have created synths and they all trended towards the same to Romulans created synths who turned into the direct ancestors of the actual, current Borg. I just think the latter explanation gels a lot better with "we will stop the Federation from making more synths in the most clandestine, conspiracy-theory way possible instead of just being like "listen guys we tried this once and here's the data on why it's not gonna end well," and I think "we made this mistake in the past too" isn't nearly as juicy of a Secret So Horrible The Zhat Vash Won't Say It Out Loud as "oh yeah those massively powerful aliens that have been terrorizing the entire galaxy for hundreds of years and caused the extinction of hundreds of civilizations? Yeah we created those." It's like in Mass Effect - AIs are banned specifically because the Quarians directly created the Geth, who are still a massive threat, not because 300 years ago another species tried to make AIs and had to stop the research because it almost went rogue. That's why all the information points on the Citadel and such are VIs and not true AIs - they're literally just Alexa/Siri with better heuristics. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Feb 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 19:27
|
|
|
Tighclops posted:Raffi reminds me of the Maquis. I think I know why, and I was thinking of including something about it but I'm not fully in agreement about the reasoning, so this is just a summary of what I've seen from other threads: It's a thing that comes up in the various star trek threads that the maquis are kind of assholes, they're creating this entire conflict, attacking cardassian ships/bases, and hiding behind the federation because of the loss of their colonies. They lost their homes (the colonies) which is tragic, but their colonies are only like 20 years old and were arbitrary. The federation offered to easily resettle them on other worlds that no longer belong to the cardassians. The reasoning is that they should just take the offer and settle somewhere else instead of taking the stand for their colonies. It's kind of like that TNG episode where a colony ship breaks and crash lands on a world belonging to the Sheliak Corporate. Data comes by and goes "yeah I know you're proud of the work you did settling here against the elements, but our hands are tied and the Sheliak are going to come by and genocide you for being on their planet. No one will care about the stand you made here and your sacrifices will be in vain." And then he blows up their aqueduct with a phaser. The episode had a great matte painting and for some reason they dubbed over one of the actors, great stuff 8/10 piratepilates fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Feb 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 19:36
|
|
|
Yeah like we get where the Maquis are coming from, they aren't wrong to feel the way they do but they're still selfishly putting the stability of the quadrant at risk for their tomato gardens and it's like I want to be sympathetic to them and clearly the shows want this to some extent but the situation, the setting and their depiction made it kind of hard. Obviously Raffi's problems aren't a 1 to 1 equivalent to that, but I get sort of the same vibe from her scenes and despite the actresses' best efforts it's not working for me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 20:01
|
|
|
I think I said it earlier but my prediction (for whatever it's worth) is that something in the Romulan's background (perhaps their split from Vulcan) required integration with an AI or machinery, and now they're trying to hide it for some reason. Not spoiling because it's purely speculation (and almost certainly wrong.) As for Picard, I hope they're going for something about how he's being extremely aloof and out of touch and should be getting a comeuppance for it, because that's the best justification for his behavior. If we're supposed to see Picard as a flawless hero then he's being written as far too callous, disrespectful to those around him, and unaware of his passions leading to obvious mistakes in judgement.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 20:24
|
|
|
Tighclops posted:Yeah like we get where the Maquis are coming from, they aren't wrong to feel the way they do but they're still selfishly putting the stability of the quadrant at risk for their tomato gardens and it's like That interpretation would work if they actually showed her putting others at risk. IMO they've shown the opposite - she's drunk and hits the vape, stutters when putting in the call, but then launches into a perfectly authentic performance. If anything, it's framed as "the substances are what allows her to lie so fluidly," as opposed to when she's talking to her son and is super awkward and also sober. On a more drama-oriented, less sci-fi show, that kind of character would likely end up ODing, causing the other characters to re-examine the signs they ignored.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 20:26
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:Yeah, I was about to say, "You just described addiction." Most every single addict has had moments where they try to get clean, even before they are truly ready to get clean. The thing is in the future it's really as simple as hypospray to the neck, now you will literally never have any impact from those drugs ever again. It's like making the X-Men stand ins for various minority groups, sometimes the reality of your setting gets in the way of your metaphor. Yeah they may be going for some "Even in the future things aren't perfect and sometimes people fall through the cracks" angle, but even here there's every chance someone will come down with some sort of horrific alien infection that causes them to become an unstoppable rage monster and think they are another perso-....what's that, hypospray to the neck and they are fine? It's not a major problem, per-say, it's just one more little speed bump that takes you out of the plot for a moment.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 20:26
|
|
|
Mulva posted:Most every single addict has had moments where they try to get clean, even before they are truly ready to get clean. I mean, I know very, very well that a prescription for an SSRI and an anti-anxiety med would improve my life massively, but I haven't done it yet. Broken brains are tough to deal with.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 20:31
|
|
|
ashpanash posted:As for Picard, I hope they're going for something about how he's being extremely aloof and out of touch and should be getting a comeuppance for it, because that's the best justification for his behavior. If we're supposed to see Picard as a flawless hero then he's being written as far too callous, disrespectful to those around him, and unaware of his passions leading to obvious mistakes in judgement. It's definitely intentional. The theme that is emerging I think is what Picard told Hugh last episode about learning not to let the "perfect" be the enemy of the "good." Picard quit taking care of a few people because he couldn't save the whole Romulan empire. He's also letting people like Raffi dig herself into a hole, but he rationalizes it or intentionally compartmentalizes it because it's for the greater good of his Super Important Mission. Speaking of that, regarding the clapping scene: I didn't get the impression he was totally oblivious to her sacrifice. The applause felt more like he knew what happened but was trying (and utterly failing) to give her a pat on the back to boost her morale about it. He's still living in the past that he can rouse everyone into giving a poo poo about what he deems important, and that people around him should feel good about their sacrifices for it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 21:10
|
|
|
Mulva posted:Most every single addict has had moments where they try to get clean, even before they are truly ready to get clean. I get what your saying, but it also seems fair enough to point out nothing has previously been established about the science of addiction in the 24th century, just that we never see addicts (besides Barclay and Garak). Also we don't know anything about "snake leaf." Also, there's a psychological element to addiction. Even if they chemically broke her physical dependence to the drug, she could still be driven to indulge in it. I find it pretty believable that addiction issues in the 24th century en masse have been largely minimized due to there being no unscrupulous capitalistic influences, better law enforcement, healthcare, medicine, public education, opportunity, shifting attitudes toward drug use, treatment techniques, etc. So while you won't have epidemics of addiction the way we have now, I'd have to believe there are a still probably few outliers and Raffi is one of those rare cases. I keep thinking of this Trek novel I read a long time ago where one of Picard's old Stargazer buddies is a literal alcoholic, and everyone is like "people still get addicted to actual alcohol?  "
Drink-Mix Man fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Feb 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 21:22
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Raffi herself I get, and the actress is definitely giving it her all, but the strange execution comes from how the show is treating her at times. You’re clearly meant to laugh at her drunkenly daring the admiral to give them their clearance, that’s why Picard stands and applauds, but the scene is kinda hosed up when you consider the bridges she just burned, as others have noted. The show slaloms back and forth between treating her like a lovable “Thats our Raffi!” drunk in some scenes and trying to tell an earnest story about addiction and its serious consequences in others. It’s a very weird tone. Sounds like being friends with someone who is hell of hosed up. It's not always horrible, it's not always good, it's stressful and taxing because you don't know how to predict their behaviour or how best to respond if at all. istewart posted:[spoiler]Elnor staying behind hopefully means we're not one and done with Hugh as we were with Seven, and I do like him as a character in the Spock/Data vein. But I still find it hilarious that they basically just copy/pasted a Jedi into Star Trek. I totally get hwy you're calling him Jedi, but poo poo, Jedi (these days) are more about raver glow-stick dancing and choreography than they are, like, ever actually fighting or killing anyone. Elnor actually uses his sword. A Jedi, first and foremost, is an entertainer, everything else is secondary and a Jedi in Elnor's shoes would just be dead. Khanstant fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Feb 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 21:24
|
|
|
Drink-Mix Man posted:Speaking of that, regarding the clapping scene: I didn't get the impression he was totally oblivious to her sacrifice. The applause felt more like he knew what happened but was trying (and utterly failing) to give her a pat on the back to boost her morale about it. He's still living in the past that he can rouse everyone into giving a poo poo about what he deems important, and that people around him should feel good about their sacrifices for it. Agreed
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 21:32
|
|
|
The chateau and heirloom furniture wasn't about class relations between Raffi and Picard, it was between Picard and the Romulans he left behind. The scene before that one was from 14 years ago and she basically said, "You're giving up after one try? The Picard I know wouldn't give up and retire to some vineyard. You wouldn't dare do that." So when he shows up 14 years later her talk really meant "Look at how stupid you were for giving up while others struggle. I hope you sleep better at night in that big comfy bed of yours while planets like Vashti turn to poo poo." To me, she's a reflection of Picard if he didn't have the prestige behind him. They worked together and had the same goals, but he's the galactic hero and she's some secretary. They had the same catalyst but reacted according to their statuses and neurosis. At least that's my takeaway. That applause scene ruined the entire episode for me. gently caress Picard. How can somebody force someone else into that situation and then be happy after making them lose a close friend. Right after losing their son. I hope he dies at the end because he's compete and utter poo poo after that move. That would be like him celebrating at the end of Nemesis being happy that Shinzon was defeated and then saying Data who? There's no redeeming that character for me now. I'm enjoying the show otherwise. Tighclops posted:Raffi reminds me of the Maquis. I was feeling the same way. She's someone angry at the situation that she put herself into and keeps herself in but blames others she feels powerless against. On a different note, was the assimilation sign telling us that whatever happened on the Artifact happened at the same time as the Mars attack? If so, why has no character mentioned it? I'm starting to think they're the same event.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 21:49
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 22:01
|
|
|
Even in a world where you can replicate anything, there's clearly a premium placed on 'real' things. An actual antique chair and an actual place in the French countryside would still be desirable. There's still a divide there on scarce things. Sure Larry the holodeck cleaning technician in Detroit has lovely replicated antique furniture in his small apartment and can use the local transporter pad to go for walks in the French countryside, but it's not the same. CaptainSkinny posted:On a different note, was the assimilation sign telling us that whatever happened on the Artifact happened at the same time as the Mars attack? If so, why has no character mentioned it? I'm starting to think they're the same event. 5843 days, so a little over 16 years ago, two years before the Mars attacks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 22:14
|
|
|
CaptainSkinny posted:The chateau and heirloom furniture wasn't about class relations between Raffi and Picard, it was between Picard and the Romulans he left behind. The scene before that one was from 14 years ago and she basically said, "You're giving up after one try? The Picard I know wouldn't give up and retire to some vineyard. You wouldn't dare do that." So when he shows up 14 years later her talk really meant "Look at how stupid you were for giving up while others struggle. I hope you sleep better at night in that big comfy bed of yours while planets like Vashti turn to poo poo." That's not a bad point at all. But again for me it's not the in universe justification so much as everything in that scene using contemporary trappings of poverty vs privelage to make its point. To go back to a discussion I had with someone (and I apologise for forgetting who) about Picard feeling like the avatar for Old Trek in this show, but why is he shown to be the only person in the Federation who gave a poo poo and everyone else just presumably gave up along with him? Raffi gives up too, and sure we see that she suffered for it. But the Federation must be home to billions of citizens and officers. No one else stepped up? The existing evacuation fleet that had already started moving people didn't say "to hell with our orders" and keep working? Or was it just a job to them and no one actually cared? Like an unrealistic premise of the entire plight of a species living or dying on the whims of one man as a means to make a point is one thing, but if you're not using his character as a personification to deconstruct or critique the old show then it all feels downright silly or cynical in the extreme. And if he is that avatar, what is the show trying to say about the Old Federation? Cause I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 22:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 23:09 |
|
|
You spend the next 14 years hanging around trying to get Jean-Luc Picard and Kathryn Janeway to pay attention to you, so clearly we're doing something right as a species 
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 22:23
|
|