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Kansas City, MO, passed free transit at the end of last year and more cities should follow suit
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Feb 29, 2020 16:37
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Wouldn't be surprised if there's a ban on non-essential government travel in the next two weeks (which will be completely pointless since COVID will have already spread nationwide by that point).
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Feb 29, 2020 16:39
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Hyrax Attack! posted:
Oh absolutely, and I doubt even the Trump admin is dumb enough to think otherwise.
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Feb 29, 2020 16:44
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NYC hired 500 more cops to just bust people for fare evasion and according to the MTAs own data it will cost more than the worst-case fare evasion. The cruelty is the point.
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Feb 29, 2020 17:03
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Nick Soapdish posted:Kansas City, MO, passed free transit at the end of last year and more cities should follow suit Even disregarding the enforcement factor, adding fares to mass transit introduces a point of friction that makes it less effective. The fares never pay for the system anyway, just abstract the cost to taxes and get rid of the turnstile.
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Feb 29, 2020 17:14
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Cugel the Clever posted:There's a drat strong argument to be made for eliminating fares, or at least fare enforcement, entirely to remove the exorbitant costs of both enforcement and fare-handling in general. Folks who evade fares aren't trying to commit murder, they're often just trying to get somewhere they need to be and lack the economic security to be comfortable with what to us seems a paltry fare. It would be interesting to see a cost/revenue breakdown. NYC claims fare-jumpers cost the city about half a billion dollars a year...they're probably spending much less than that on enforcement. Eliminating fares altogether shifts the entire system somewhere else in the budget. If it's not being paid for by fares, it'll be an increase in sales tax or something else. I agree with you that the way its enforced is obscene but just pretending it's free isn't solving anything. They'll pay for it some other way. Edit: Fares pay over 1/3 of MTA's budget, so about 6.x of the $16B budget annually. That 6 billion dollars is going to come from somewhere.
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Feb 29, 2020 17:19
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Godholio posted:It would be interesting to see a cost/revenue breakdown. NYC claims fare-jumpers cost the city about half a billion dollars a year...they're probably spending much less than that on enforcement. Eliminating fares altogether shifts the entire system somewhere else in the budget. If it's not being paid for by fares, it'll be an increase in sales tax or something else. I agree with you that the way its enforced is obscene but just pretending it's free isn't solving anything. They'll pay for it some other way. Take it from the cops and call it good
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Feb 29, 2020 17:39
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I’m curious how the ROI works out hiring hundreds of full time employees to guarantee fares. What’s the fully burdened cost to the city for a cop?
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Feb 29, 2020 17:43
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MTA Will Spend $249M On New Cops to Save $200M on Fare Evasion https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/11/14/mta-will-spend-249m-on-new-cops-to-save-200m-on-fare-evasion/
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Feb 29, 2020 17:47
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Fallom posted:I’m curious how the ROI works out hiring hundreds of full time employees to guarantee fares. What’s the fully burdened cost to the city for a cop? It's unclear because it looks like the MTA budget proposal asks for funds to hire 500 cops for "fare evasion and homelessness mitigation outreach" but the MTA head is saying they're for general policing. I can also find mealy mouth statements about fair evasion being a part of general policing as well as that fare evasion correlates with the stations where the most violent crime and harassment is happening. Also the MTA worker's union has been pushing this hard because assaults on their members was up something like 50% last year. Whole thing looks like a mess.
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Feb 29, 2020 17:49
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Fallom posted:I’m curious how the ROI works out hiring hundreds of full time employees to guarantee fares. What’s the fully burdened cost to the city for a cop? don't forget the costs of maintaining the turnstiles, ticket machines, and change machines. it's all a moot point since cities should absolutely be paying people to ride trains.
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Feb 29, 2020 17:50
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edit: misread the first paragraph
Jarmak fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Feb 29, 2020 |
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Feb 29, 2020 17:54
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Jarmak posted:This doesn't even pass the smell test, new patrolmen don't make 500k salaries. its over 4 years and the numbers are from the MTA themselves Proud Christian Mom fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Feb 29, 2020 |
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Feb 29, 2020 17:56
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Jarmak posted:This doesn't even pass the smell test, new patrolmen don't make 500k salaries. Fully burdened cost is salary + benefits + overhead, which tends to be way more than the base salary. It makes sense to see a huge number over a few years. Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Feb 29, 2020 |
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Feb 29, 2020 17:57
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Fallom posted:Fully burdened cost is salary + benefits + overhead, which tends to be way more than the base salary. drat you fucks are quick. Yeah I misread the first paragraph, it's also over four years. Got confused because I saw other articles throwing around the $200m in fare evasion as a annual number.
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Feb 29, 2020 18:00
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Even disregarding the enforcement factor, adding fares to mass transit introduces a point of friction that makes it less effective. The fares never pay for the system anyway, just abstract the cost to taxes and get rid of the turnstile. But then I might pay taxes for something I won't personally, directly benefit from! 
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Feb 29, 2020 18:07
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Fister Roboto posted:But then I might pay taxes on something I won't personally, directly benefit from! Which is annoying to hear because everyone personally directly benefits from more transportation options and fewer cars on the road.
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Feb 29, 2020 18:08
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Stultus Maximus posted:Which is annoying to hear because everyone personally directly benefits from more transportation options and fewer cars on the road. This, I'd gladly pay more taxes to reduce traffic in Boston, commuting via public transit is not a realistic option for me.
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Feb 29, 2020 18:15
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Stultus Maximus posted:Which is annoying to hear because everyone personally directly benefits from more transportation options and fewer cars on the road. Not to mention not making the poor even more poor has untold flow on effects
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Feb 29, 2020 18:22
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Not to mention not making the poor even more poor has untold flow on effects
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Feb 29, 2020 18:29
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Presumably some of those police are there to patrol to try and keep the MTA from becoming an 80s hellscape again, so you can't completely make the jump from "no fare" to "no police" fiscally. Still it'd be nice to see numbers on what the payment infrastructure itself costs.
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Feb 29, 2020 18:30
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Enough that we can't afford that and the tax cuts
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Feb 29, 2020 18:34
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Terrifying Effigies posted:Wouldn't be surprised if there's a ban on non-essential government travel in the next two weeks (which will be completely pointless since COVID will have already spread nationwide by that point). There already is at my place of work, email came out a couple days ago saying all non-essential travel is immediately cancelled.
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Feb 29, 2020 18:38
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piL posted:Presumably some of those police are there to patrol to try and keep the MTA from becoming an 80s hellscape again, so you can't completely make the jump from "no fare" to "no police" fiscally. Still it'd be nice to see numbers on what the payment infrastructure itself costs. if the railcops didn't have to prioritize busting drunks, poors, and rowdy teenagers for fare evasion, they would be free to patrol and keep citizens safe from actual crime no fares doesn't necessarily mean no police it don't gotta be an either-or type of situation
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Feb 29, 2020 19:06
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Godholio posted:Eliminating fares altogether shifts the entire system somewhere else in the budget. If it's not being paid for by fares, it'll be an increase in sales tax or something else. I agree with you that the way its enforced is obscene but just pretending it's free isn't solving anything. They'll pay for it some other way. After all, some would argue, the transit riders are surely just temporarily inconvenienced or morally-deficient and need to fight harder toward the universal ideal of owning a 2.5 car garage with an attached house out in the burbs. High fares and limited service are necessary to discourage them from growing too comfortable on government handouts, unlike us who simply use the naturally-occurring road infrastructure that doesn't require a dime of government expenditure. To be clear: not arguing to ban all cars and impose rail-only transport in rural villages, just that policy in our urban centers is all-to-often improperly weighted toward personal car ownership over more efficient, equitable, and environmentally-friendly alternatives that actually make life easier for those who still need to drive.
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Feb 29, 2020 19:07
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Turns out the antiGreta loves white supremacists, who could have guessed! https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e5974c5c5b6450a30be4a4d/amp?4p=&__twitter_impression=true First coronavirus death in Washington state First coronavirus death in the US happened in Kirkland, 20 miles from me. Nice knowing you all just kidding, smdftb E: hosed up the link, but just gonna edit them both in Slim Pickens fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Feb 29, 2020 |
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Feb 29, 2020 20:05
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That article links to the Anti-Greta sock puppet being a fan of Stefan Molyneux, FYI, although I guess it’s related because I hope they both get COVID.
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Feb 29, 2020 20:07
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pantslesswithwolves posted:That article links to the Anti-Greta sock puppet being a fan of Stefan Molyneux, FYI, although I guess it’s related because I hope they both get COVID. You're kinder than I
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Feb 29, 2020 20:10
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Conservatives finding a German teen who supports a neo-nazi and denies science is another one of those things that is so on the nose that it would beggar belief if in fiction.
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Feb 29, 2020 20:18
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Slim Pickens posted:https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e5974c5c5b6450a30be4a4d/amp?4p=&__twitter_impression=true It's just a hoax.
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Feb 29, 2020 20:20
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mlmp08 posted:Conservatives finding a German teen who supports a neo-nazi and denies science is another one of those things that is so on the nose that it would beggar belief if in fiction.
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Feb 29, 2020 20:28
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The best was the Cliven interview holding a calf
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Feb 29, 2020 20:31
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Oregon Public Radio (I think) produced a podcast series called Bundyville I listened to that was a deep-dive on those nuts and it was loving terrifying lol if you think this country is ever getting better
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Feb 29, 2020 20:37
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Nazi Greta's mom is a lawyer for AfD so it makes sense she's a fan of Stefan
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Feb 29, 2020 20:38
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Casimir Radon posted:They're loving terrible about with this sort of thing. They find themselves a mouth-piece, and in short order it goes and says the quiet part loud. Remember Cliven "Let me tell you one more thing I know about the Negro!" Bundy? There's never any real conviction in their con-artist anti-other side token speaker of the moment. It's always a purely reactionary "see we have one too, betcha can't criticize us now!" token speaker that's there for the paycheck. Thunberg is not exactly there for the public speaker fees, so it shows in her passion and follow-through.
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Feb 29, 2020 20:38
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Slim Pickens posted:https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e5974c5c5b6450a30be4a4d/amp?4p=&__twitter_impression=true kirkland brand has everything, but it costcos it all
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Feb 29, 2020 20:45
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Was the Cliven situation the one where he'd been feeding his cattle on public land for years and you had gun nuts setting up checkpoints and sniper nests and ended up in an armed standoff with police?
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Feb 29, 2020 20:47
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pantslesswithwolves posted:That article links to the Anti-Greta sock puppet being a fan of Stefan Molyneux, FYI, although I guess it’s related because I hope they both get COVID. quote:In 2019, Molyneaux said: “I’ve always been skeptical of the ideas of white nationalism, of identitarianism, and white identity. However, I am an empiricist, and I could not help but notice that I could have peaceful, free, easy, civilized and safe discussions in what is, essentially, an all-white country.” Ah, the classic "not a racist, a race realist!" line.
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Feb 29, 2020 20:47
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:The best was the Cliven interview holding a calf
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Feb 29, 2020 20:50
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Naomi Seibt is a holocaust denier that complains about "the jew" being at the very top of the "victim chain", closely followed by Muslims etc. while "poor Germans" are at the very bottom. She also got bought by the Heartland Institute's "Center on Climate and Environmental Policy" (  ) to make sure "climate change alarmists" do, uh..."their research first".The comments you will find associated with her current US "media" reporting are usually that "she's a hotter Greta" by creeplords discussing how she "is of legal age, but looks younger" (  ). I posted a speech of hers on "climate issues" a couple of days ago, and I thought I had reached rock-bottom of disgust, but I find myself futilely digging away at the bedrock of disgust.And, sure enough, she gets airtime for her very considerate message. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zrHs3dv7LQ
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Feb 29, 2020 20:56
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