|
Ask for clarification! Don't assume poo poo.
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2020 08:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 01:47 |
|
|
Friday afternoon I received an offer from another company about 25% higher than my current salary. The person from the company that referred me said this offer was a little low and suggested I ask for 3-5K more. My current work situation isn't good and getting a 25% increase is great plus a fresh start at a new company. My current company couldn't come close to matching this offer, and if if somehow they, did I would never take it because I want to leave asap. Part of me says just take the 25% increase and be happy with that, another part of me says if I'm leaving money on the table I'll regret it. Bottom line is I want to start things off right at the new place and I don't want to get into a dispute over a few thousand. I will be relocating for this job for at least 3 months for training and to get familiar with it, but it sounds like they don't offer relocation so that's not something I could negotiate for. I also will get getting one week less vacation but they also won't negotiate on that (per my friend who is a VP in the dept). I've been with my current company 10+ years and haven't negotiated like this in a long time. This is a senior analyst role if that matters. I need to give an answer by Monday morning. Any advice would be appreciated. Mouse Cadet fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Mar 1, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2020 18:02
|
|
|
Ask for 50% more your current salary based on the no relocation and less vacation. Hell ask for more vacation to match your current. See what they respond with. You can only improve your situation here. Your friend says they won’t budge but you wouldn’t know that from your perspective. Ask ask ask. George H.W. Cunt fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Mar 1, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2020 18:39
|
|
|
So if I ask politely, the worst that can happen is they say no, or counter with something lower? I know they have other candidates on deck so I don't want to rub them the wrong way and they retract the offer.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2020 18:52
|
|
|
Dude, if you negotiate and a company responds by rescinding the offer and telling you to gently caress yourself, YOU DO NOT WANT TO WORK THERE. The fact your friend seems content to work there and also directly suggested that you should ask for more money strongly suggests they are not that kind of company.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2020 19:04
|
|
|
My friend is confident if I ask politely for something reasonable they wouldn't pull the offer. The offer came from the internal recruiter. She called me and made the offer and then sent an email with a dollar amount and a PDF of their health care, retirement, etc benefits. Since there are several things I may try to negotiate, salary, vacation, relocation, should I try to setup a call with the recruiter and then submit my counter through email? They also offer 50% less 401(k) matching so between that and the 1 week less vacation, I think it very reasonable to ask for a bit more. Mouse Cadet fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Mar 1, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2020 19:13
|
|
|
Mouse Cadet posted:My friend is confident if I ask politely for something reasonable they wouldn't pull the offer. It's reasonable either way, ask and ithey won't do it they'll say no
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2020 19:33
|
|
|
Thank you all for you advice, I'll update you when I know more tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2020 19:38
|
|
|
Don’t confuse negotiating for your livelihood as a hand out you have to ask politely for. The company wants you to be timid and feel ashamed to ask for more and take what they give. That only benefits them by underpaying you. Be confident in your ask. Don’t use phrasing that gives off an air of asking or permission. Use language that says “I am excited to work here, this is what it’ll take to do so” Like the above said if someone pulls an offer because you dare ask for something then you absolutely dodged a bullet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2020 20:59
|
|
|
You should ask for all of that stuff. They may just day "this is our final offer" but you also may get more. They may say that you are "special" and give you a relocation package, your experience may get you more PTO.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2020 00:47
|
|
|
Mouse Cadet posted:Thank you all for you advice, I'll update you when I know more tomorrow. Just remember, they offered because they think you’re good and want you to work for them! They might not want to jeopardize that just as much as you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2020 02:54
|
|
|
fourwood posted:Just remember, they offered because they think you’re good and want you to work for them! They might not want to jeopardize that just as much as you. This. Now that they have offered they have as much to lose as you if you turn them down. They either have to start over recruiting which sets them back at least two months plus recruiting costs or pick a candidate they passed on. They have a ton of incentive not to lose you, and while $5k a year is meaningful to you its nothing to them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2020 15:34
|
|
|
I have an interview for a potential new job in a week. It's a small company, I wouldn't say start-up, they'be been around long enough to be fairly established, but they are on a big push to expand and doing a lot of hiring, according to both them (my initial phone interview was with the HR person and hiring/talent acquisition person,) and a couple people I know who know people who work there. I've never negotiated a salary before, just always took what was offered like a chump. I'm definitely underpaid at my current job. Got hired to do QA, and after a year was moved over into IT and have been a sys admin for almost 6 years I got a 10% raise when I moved to the new job, and then a couple years of no raises and then a couple small COL raises spaced two years apart. I feel like I'm below what a sys admin should be getting after talks with friends and such in similar/same jobs, mostly because I was hired as QA and thus had a much lower starting salary, even after the first 10% bump. There's no one at my company to directly compare to, I'm the only one with my job title (which officially is "systems technician," not "systems administrator" or "systems engineer" like everyone else who does the same job functions I do. Should I inquire about the salary range and benefits at the interview (if they don't mention it, that is), or wait till I get an actual offer?
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2020 18:50
|
|
|
do not open range conversations imo it benefits you a lot less than it benefits them if they open the conversation be sure to have an answer about what you will accept that is the number that you would be like "ok let me sign right now" not the number that you would accept
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2020 19:50
|
|
|
What's a normal amount of time for an offer to be extended? Had an on-site last Tuesday and they called me with an offer the next day. I asked for some more time to decide so now I have until tomorrow! Regarding the offer–I haven't negotiated salary yet but the amount they're giving me seems to be a typical base salary for the responsibilities on Glassdoor (~R&D engineer in biomed in SoCal), but they are also including relocation reimbursement (up to $5K taxable). They match 401k up to 5% and there's also free catered lunches and meal vouchers after 5PM, although "no vacation policy". The position is entry level-ish for people transitioning from academic to industry but I also don't think I'm coming in with the lowest pay amongst the team since I have a few years of exp. In fact, I'll be doubling my poverty researcher wages but will be moving out of my parents' basement to across the country. How should I still negotiate?
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 21:00
|
|
|
A week's time is not that weird; they have to both NOT hire you and NOT hire anyone else while their offer to you is good. That being said: The right time to post was last Wednesday, not today. And I'd run from any place that doesn't have a vacation policy, they're expecting you to spend your entire life with them and not take any time off.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 21:04
|
|
|
Does no Vacation Policy mean "Unlimited"? Unlimited can be bad or good but it's a policy. "No Policy" is a red flag but maybe they are communicating that poorly. Anyway, you can still negotiate and your academic experience in research still has value so you can still use that to get an experience bump.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 21:11
|
|
|
Suicide Watch posted:Regarding the offer–I haven't negotiated salary yet but the amount they're giving me seems to be a typical base salary for the responsibilities [...] I also don't think I'm coming in with the lowest pay amongst the team since I have a few years of exp. If they're making less, that means they're making below typical base for an introductory position, which isn't great. Hopefully what is more likely is that you need to negotiate a higher salary if you already have experience. Seconding that you should run away if they have no stated vacation policy though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 21:25
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:A week's time is not that weird; they have to both NOT hire you and NOT hire anyone else while their offer to you is good. Lockback posted:Does no Vacation Policy mean "Unlimited"? Unlimited can be bad or good but it's a policy. "No Policy" is a red flag but maybe they are communicating that poorly. Whoops, meant that to be Unlimited. Just need to coordinate with team/manager ahead of time. Inept posted:If they're making less, that means they're making below typical base for an introductory position, which isn't great. Terminology gets a bit weird–the people making less than me would be something similar to technicians, they're fresh out of undergrad without significant work exp. I have 3-ish years and an engineering degree.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 22:01
|
|
|
'Unlimited Vacation' is the latest employee ripoff scheme: there's no cap on your PTO, but somehow your PTO requests are always at the wrong time. There are some places that put it in place with a good intent of 'Work when you're going to do your best work', but most are doing the ripoff version. I'd ask them for a Minimum PTO Policy of 15-20 days. If they're the latter they should probably understand why you want it. If they're the former they'll balk and you know what they're trying to achieve.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 22:24
|
|
|
I got clarification and it turns out that they're above market for the lower paying position. Not far enough above market to beat my current job. The interviewer was cool about it and thanked me for coming to the interview. I thanked him for his time, then we just chatted for about 10 minutes. He gave me his card and said to reach out in six months when they have the operation up and running, saying that by then they will know what new positions they will need to create.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2020 22:45
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:'Unlimited Vacation' is the latest employee ripoff scheme: there's no cap on your PTO, but somehow your PTO requests are always at the wrong time. This is also a very California thing. Your PTO has to be booked as a liability, and paid out upon any separation ( fired, you quit...doesn't' matter) so these companies are increasingly doing an "unlimited" PTO for their books. In case you haven't figured it out yet (not you, Mr President): this is not good for you. But you don't have the negotiating power to change a company policy as part of your negotiation. So if this is a thing at that company you need to carefully weigh it into you decision.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2020 02:43
|
|
|
Motronic posted:This is also a very California thing. Your PTO has to be booked as a liability, and paid out upon any separation ( fired, you quit...doesn't' matter) so these companies are increasingly doing an "unlimited" PTO for their books.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2020 02:50
|
|
|
Hoodwinker posted:I always push to find the exact limit where the company is upset at the amount of PTO I'm taking. In the last 3 years I haven't gotten less than you would get out of standard PTO policies. That's usually much less of a "varies by company" thing and more of a "varies by manager" thing
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2020 03:00
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:That's usually much less of a "varies by company" thing and more of a "varies by manager" thing Exactly this. It gets pushed to manager discretion in my experience. It makes your "benefit" very opaque.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2020 03:18
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:I'd ask them for a Minimum PTO Policy of 15-20 days. If they're the latter they should probably understand why you want it. If they're the former they'll balk and you know what they're trying to achieve. Most places that go to unlimited vacation don't have policies to pay out vacation when you leave/are laid off and requiring them to make a special exception just for you is asking for an entire change to their employee handbook and tracking system or else they are opening themselves up to significant liability not just from that employee but all others. If the policy is unlimited PTO, that's the policy. Asking for a special policy for you (as a entry-level applicant no less) is not a very good idea and is going to be pretty distracting. Like I said there are good and bad experiences with Unlimited PTO but fighting against it to the recruiter won't really get you anywhere. If that's a deal-breaker, just say so and move on,
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2020 03:25
|
|
|
I have an interview tomorrow and have been skimming this thread. I've seen numbers thrown around of like a 20-30% salary increase. The job I am interviewing for is in a different state and the cost of living is quite a bit higher. My current salary in that area would be around ~$15K higher already. Should this be taken into account into the total compensation or should I be asking for the 20-30% after the COL increase?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2020 04:33
|
|
|
madjdmyo posted:I have an interview tomorrow and have been skimming this thread. I've seen numbers thrown around of like a 20-30% salary increase. The job I am interviewing for is in a different state and the cost of living is quite a bit higher. My current salary in that area would be around ~$15K higher already. Should this be taken into account into the total compensation or should I be asking for the 20-30% after the COL increase? The general thread advice is to "never say a number first" if you can help it. Hopefully they give you an offer after you interview with a number and you can take it from there. If they press you for a number before they give you there offer I would just say something like: "This area is has a pretty different cost of living from where I'm at now, so I'm still doing my research to figure out what it will take for me to make the move." It's both true and a good negotiating tactic. I wouldn't focus on trying to maintain your current salary adjusted for cost of living. Each time you switch jobs it's your best chance to make a significant bump in you earnings.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2020 05:42
|
|
|
You should absolutely take into account CoL. Keep in mind switching jobs introduces quite a bit of risk and you should be eyeballing a higher salary to account for that risk. I think sometimes this thread focuses too much on "winning" a negotiation and not enough on making sure people are in a situation salary/job wise that is the best for them. Before moving to a higher CoL area, you should sit down and figure out what an equivalent salary would be based on what you're making now and what a reasonable raise bump would be to account for the move/risk of a new job/risk of a new city/responsibilities of a new job. That should be your floor (that you probably shouldn't share, but should be your internal number).
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2020 14:36
|
|
|
So I had to chance to speak with the HR rep again, and she wanted me to tell her how she could justify my higher negotiated salary to the CEO. I was also asked whether my proposed base was a dealbreaker (from 73K to 86K) which is not. She is good and very experienced at this, I am not. I mentioned the pay ranges of some comparable companies in the industry and obviously that's a weak point my argument as this company offering is a start-up just barely out of stealth mode. Stock options (vesting after 1 year) were brought up, although I'm not wholly convinced in them as compensation. This company is exploring different ways for revenue and is entirely self-funded up until this point (I'd be employee #<100) so I'm not sure how the share values for a private, self-funded company can be determined. Is this something that screws people over? I'm not expecting the full $13K increase from the original base and am okay with hitting 77-80K. Although I can suck up a weak cultural fit, I'd also prefer not to be handcuffed to the vesting options especially if they aren't valuable. Anyway, the HR rep is putting me in touch with the CFO later, so I can better learn how the options work/valuation done. Anything I should specifically ask about?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2020 18:44
|
|
|
The correct answer is because $13,000 is a trivial amount of money compared to what a high performer like you will add to the bottom line and they know it. The value of the stock options is $0.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2020 19:06
|
|
|
Suicide Watch posted:So I had to chance to speak with the HR rep again, and she wanted me to tell her how she could justify my higher negotiated salary to the CEO. I was also asked whether my proposed base was a dealbreaker (from 73K to 86K) which is not. She is good and very experienced at this, I am not. Edit: I have no problem with capitalism or capitalists. But they're not known for altruistic behavior.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 00:08
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:The correct answer is because $13,000 is a trivial amount of money compared to what a high performer like you will add to the bottom line and they know it. Dik Hz posted:Stock options are worthless in this case. There's no liquidity, no guarantee your options will be worth anything, and you're last in line to get paid out if the company does well. You can get dicked over a dozen different ways, and the only way to get paid is to trust the altruism of a capitalist that's already trying to lowball you. Good perspectives. Would it be fair to argue for a higher base salary since I wouldn't want to be making near that base especially if I stay for the 5 year vesting period?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 02:01
|
|
|
Suicide Watch posted:Good perspectives. Would it be fair to argue for a higher base salary since I wouldn't want to be making near that base especially if I stay for the 5 year vesting period? People who take below market salaries for any reason are perceived as being less valuable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 13:47
|
|
|
Dik Hz posted:Ask for the market rate + 10%. You bring value. Working for a start-up increases the volatility of your own employment. If they don't recognize that, they would probably be lovely employers anyway. Unless you're desperate. If you are, take the job at the terms they offer and work to put yourself in a better situation. I'm still in my 20s without a graduate degree and would be working in R&D in an engineering/technology field–I think the base already is market rate. I kind of am desperate as I'm weighing between this and a masters program in the fall, a degree that I'd earn probably only to later land a position such as this one. That said the company is a bit rare in hiring for a position like this without a MS. It's possible I'm capping out at their pay levels for someone with only a BS, the HR rep said she'll look into a signing bonus potentially.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 18:23
|
|
|
Even after you have experience, if the jobs you ultimately want to make a career of generally require the MS, you need to do what it takes to get the MS ASAP. Otherwise, later you'll try to get jobs relying on your experience, and lose to candidates to have experience and a Masters (or even just a Masters; degrees are hard requirements for a lot of companies). I'm generalizing since I know jackshit about whatever exact field you're in, but I assume you know what's what.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 19:05
|
|
|
Suicide Watch posted:So I had to chance to speak with the HR rep again, and she wanted me to tell her how she could justify my higher negotiated salary to the CEO. That's her job, not yours. Asking you to list reasons you're worth money after you've already interviewed is real stupid and trying to knock you down a peg to justify giving you a lower salary. Don't play their game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2020 20:14
|
|
|
Suicide Watch posted:I'm still in my 20s without a graduate degree and would be working in R&D in an engineering/technology field–I think the base already is market rate. I kind of am desperate as I'm weighing between this and a masters program in the fall, a degree that I'd earn probably only to later land a position such as this one. If they're offering market rate and you're desperate, take it and put it in the win column. Also, it gets repeated a lot in here, but you don't have to argue. Just say, "Based on the relocation, can you make $X+10% work?"
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2020 00:35
|
|
|
Since we don’t have a VC thread, would entrepreneurial related negotiation and valuation be of interest here? Possibly related: I might get to be a coach at a local VC pitch competition...
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2020 03:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 01:47 |
|
|
Ultimate Mango posted:Since we don’t have a VC thread, would entrepreneurial related negotiation and valuation be of interest here? Possibly related: I might get to be a coach at a local VC pitch competition...  This is the Negotiation Thread, which at least in theory covers more than just negotiating with prospective employers. (Right?)
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2020 03:29
|
|