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Avalerion posted:I find the quanri abominable. Like some elders can decide your calling in life is to be a prostitute and if you disagree, off to brainwash camp with you. In Tevinter Nights their modus operandi for conquest is murdering every soldier, lobotomizing every mage and turning them into laundry slaves, and then forced slave labor under a Bas-taar (thing keeper) for all the men until they're considered "worthy" of the Qun. I think the Imperium will end up being the lighter option in DA4.
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Mar 17, 2020 11:02
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Berke Negri posted:DAO is broad enough anything is appropriate, especially without any player VA really (canonically I think its female dalish warrior or something?) IIRC, one of the developers for the series mentioned in an article about designing the Inquisitor for DAI that, in the dev team's minds, the Warden was a warrior, Hawke was a mage, and the Inquisitor is a rogue.
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Mar 17, 2020 12:21
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Bro Dad posted:In Tevinter Nights their modus operandi for conquest is murdering every soldier, lobotomizing every mage and turning them into laundry slaves, and then forced slave labor under a Bas-taar (thing keeper) for all the men until they're considered "worthy" of the Qun. This is apparently the Antaam - the Warriors - going rogue, no? This is not like previous Qunari invasions. As for the Pros and Cons of the Qunari in general, Thedas is a feudal society full of racism and injustice. It's like how Dorian says "sure Tevinter has slavery but Ferelden just shoves elves into ghettos to be raped or die of plague. Is that really any better?" The Qunari aren't perfect but they are less racist than pretty much everywhere else in Thedas.There is no noble lord waiting to just rape you if he feels like it. You just have to pick your poison. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 14:49
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every nation in thedas is a poo poo hole and would be absolute hell to live in if you're not part of the ruling class, but the qunari are far and away the worst, to say nothing of the fact they're all descended from some freak who hosed a dragon
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Mar 17, 2020 14:55
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Nefarious 2.0 posted:every nation in thedas is a poo poo hole and would be absolute hell to live in if you're not part of the ruling class, but the qunari are far and away the worst, to say nothing of the fact they're all descended from some freak who hosed a dragon Isn't it Tevinter if you're not a Magister? Most people are probably pretty happy under the Qun.
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Mar 17, 2020 14:56
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I too think it would be better to live in a nation where you can be sent to a reeducation camp and lobotomized if you want to he more than a dishwasher e: free choice is so pesky, its much better to live without it, we would all be so much happier if we just let our betters decide everything for us.
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Mar 17, 2020 14:56
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Nefarious 2.0 posted:every nation in thedas is a poo poo hole and would be absolute hell to live in if you're not part of the ruling class, but the qunari are far and away the worst, to say nothing of the fact they're all descended from some freak who hosed a dragon
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Mar 17, 2020 14:57
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CottonWolf posted:Isn't it Tevinter if you're not a Magister? Most people are probably pretty happy under the Qun. Yeah, Tevinter is by all accounts super into slavery and tyranny unless you're a noble (i.e. a mage). In which case, welcome to everyone being a blood mage while indulging in magic eugenics and constant political maneuvering and backstabbing.
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Mar 17, 2020 15:00
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CottonWolf posted:Isn't it Tevinter if you're not a Magister? Most people are probably pretty happy under the Qun. Eh, its kind of a tossup. Tevinter basically functions like most other nations, the mages are just in charge instead of in circles. Like they have a serious theological schism with the countries we've played in, but ultimately there isn't a whole lot of indication their day to day life is actually worse for most people. Like we get a bunch of stories about how hosed some stuff is but it isn't like Fereldan, Kirkwall or Orlais don't also gently caress over most of their commoners. Like look at everything to do with the city elves across all three games.
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Mar 17, 2020 15:01
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Nefarious 2.0 posted:every nation in thedas is a poo poo hole and would be absolute hell to live in if you're not part of the ruling class, but the qunari are far and away the worst, to say nothing of the fact they're all descended from some freak who hosed a dragon Look, as the Dragon Age protagonist we've hosed everything and everyone else, dragons are just the next logical step.
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Mar 17, 2020 15:25
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Sylphosaurus posted:I got the impression that they seem to be an engineered race with some kind of dragon component in their genetic makeup. what do you think is more likely? some ancient mage had a sufficient understanding of dna that he was able to magically splice together the human and dragon genomes, or some ancient mage magically roofie'd a dragon and hosed it in the name of "science"
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Mar 17, 2020 15:38
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CottonWolf posted:Isn't it Tevinter if you're not a Magister? Most people are probably pretty happy under the Qun. That's an important distinction. There are converts to the Qun. Nobody willingly goes to Tevinter At most they are facing certain death somewhere else so they'are like "eh, slavery doesn't sound so bad....".
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Mar 17, 2020 15:45
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The Qun is correct about mages. The only good species in Dragon Age is the Dwarves since they can't become mages. All others are corruptible and therefor a threat.
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Mar 17, 2020 16:20
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Descent makes it seem like there's something weird going on with Dwarves. Were they just drones/slaves for the Titans up until the Veil was put up? That seems hosed up.
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Mar 17, 2020 16:32
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NikkolasKing posted:As for the Pros and Cons of the Qunari in general, Thedas is a feudal society full of racism and injustice. It's like how Dorian says "sure Tevinter has slavery but Ferelden just shoves elves into ghettos to be raped or die of plague. Is that really any better?"son. This is literally the argument used by "The South Was Right!" the idea of the noble and just slave owner who treats his human chattel like human beings instead of property and is emotionally and financially invested in making them happy and healthy. Hard truth: Anything is better then being relegated to "property" when it comes to life. Coming from the mouths of one of the "good ones" makes it even more damning given he was almost gay-conversion mind wiped and still thinks his society is somehow better.
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Mar 17, 2020 16:44
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pentyne posted:This is literally the argument used by "The South Was Right!" the idea of the noble and just slave owner who treats his human chattel like human beings instead of property and is emotionally and financially invested in making them happy and healthy. Or the Tevinter elf slaver in DAO. If you try to appeal to her as an elf, she laughs at you because she's one of the Good Ones, gifted wealth and power by her masters in return for her faithful, unquestioning service.
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Mar 17, 2020 16:49
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pentyne posted:This is literally the argument used by "The South Was Right!" the idea of the noble and just slave owner who treats his human chattel like human beings instead of property and is emotionally and financially invested in making them happy and healthy. Tevinter is Rome, not the South. Slavery is always bad but there are degrees of slavery. Roman slavery was nothing like American chattel slavery. And no, being third class citizens who can be purged at the whim of the monarch as happens in Orlais is not "preferable" in my mind .At best they are equally awful. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 16:50
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Cythereal posted:IIRC, one of the developers for the series mentioned in an article about designing the Inquisitor for DAI that, in the dev team's minds, the Warden was a warrior, Hawke was a mage, and the Inquisitor is a rogue. honestly DA:I is probably the first game where you being a mage walking around with a staff on your back isnt kind of jarring, so that's weird they think that that said bow rogue in DA:I is fun with all the flipping around edit: DA:O you're at least from a circle than immediately conscripted by the grey wardens and they can do whatever the f they want, so that's fine 2 you're pretty much just an apostate walking around in the open right?
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Mar 17, 2020 17:05
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fereldon has warsaw ghettos full of elves that the local lord can rape whenever he feels like it, but they don't actually call them slaves, so they're better than tevinter  and this should be obvious, but this is not a defense of slavery. the point is they're both indefensible
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Mar 17, 2020 17:17
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Ginette Reno posted:Descent makes it seem like there's something weird going on with Dwarves. Nah, I don't think so. It seems more likely they were formed from the Titan's and worked in harmony with and within them. To willingly leave doesn't seem like it would have been prohibited simply because it wasn't done. The case might be made that the Titan's sing to the dwarves in a similar way that the Demon Supreme's sing to the darkspawn and that severing the connection and making their world silent would make them go mad, but given the large amount of non-mad dwarves it'd probably just suck for them for a while. What I hope is that DA4 doesn't go the route of attempting to paint the dwarves as slaves. It'd be rad if the Elven oligarchs were all "Sure, we murdered the only good things in the world and but we totally freed the dwarves by doing it, trust us." edit: by "It seems more likely" I mean "I want this to be true". Admiral Ray fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 17:19
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I feel like DA, as a setting, has a lot of really cool narrative items to capitalize on with all of the social groups having hugely different social contracts. I just don't think modern Bioware is going to be able to do anything good with them. We're going to get a half baked live service open world game, with a bunch of hanging plot threads left unresolved and largely inconsequential story decisions. Maybe they'll manage to make something cool like ME3 mp to tack onto it as a revenue stream tail though?
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Mar 17, 2020 17:23
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A weird thing about Dragon Age as a series: since a lot of players tend to stick with the same type of character, and since Dragon Age spans more than a decade, there's bound to be some Thedosian historian who's gonna be like "huh, every significant hero of the past 10 years has been a sarcastic redheaded lesbian mage. weird"
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Mar 17, 2020 17:47
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Berke Negri posted:honestly DA:I is probably the first game where you being a mage walking around with a staff on your back isnt kind of jarring, so that's weird they think that Yeah, that always struck me as weird as well. Hawke just rolls around as an apostate openly using magic everywhere, including their famous duel with the Arishok in front of all of the nobility of the city, and nothing ever happens to them because of it. I'm planning on doing DA2 into DAI during the corona quarantine times and that's my dilemma. Mage Hawke is the best Hawke, because of Legacy and because Carver is better than Bethany, but the "Everybody ignores the fact that the Champion is an apostate" thing always bothers me.
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Mar 17, 2020 17:56
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Khizan posted:I'm planning on doing DA2 into DAI during the corona quarantine times and that's my dilemma. Mage Hawke is the best Hawke, because of Legacy and because Carver is better than Bethany, but the "Everybody ignores the fact that the Champion is an apostate" thing always bothers me.
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Mar 17, 2020 18:06
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Pattonesque posted:A weird thing about Dragon Age as a series: since a lot of players tend to stick with the same type of character, and since Dragon Age spans more than a decade, there's bound to be some Thedosian historian who's gonna be like "huh, every significant hero of the past 10 years has been a sarcastic redheaded lesbian mage. weird" I'm feeling personally attacked here.
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Mar 17, 2020 18:07
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Khizan posted:Yeah, that always struck me as weird as well. Hawke just rolls around as an apostate openly using magic everywhere, including their famous duel with the Arishok in front of all of the nobility of the city, and nothing ever happens to them because of it. They at least make it pretty explicit that by the time it's super publically known (post arishok) everyone is too drat scared to make a move on you. And the templars are mid crisis by then.
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Mar 17, 2020 18:13
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KittyEmpress posted:They at least make it pretty explicit that by the time it's super publically known (post arishok) everyone is too drat scared to make a move on you. At that point both sides realize the influence Hawke wields in the city and try to persuade him to their side. What better a tool for the Templars is there than turning the most influential and powerful Mage in the city to their cause? Vice versa for the Mages.
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Mar 17, 2020 18:21
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Pattonesque posted:A weird thing about Dragon Age as a series: since a lot of players tend to stick with the same type of character, and since Dragon Age spans more than a decade, there's bound to be some Thedosian historian who's gonna be like "huh, every significant hero of the past 10 years has been a sarcastic redheaded lesbian mage. weird" This is specifically why for my "canon" runs of DA1-3, even though I played a Human Male Mage who was radically Pro-Mage for the first two games, I decided to be a Female Elf Templar who was proud to be the Herald of Andraste in the third.
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Mar 17, 2020 18:41
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You guys are really making me want to do my fourth run of DA2 but I only have DA2 on PC at the moment. I did all my other runs on my long gone PS3. I tried playing DA2 on PC but...gently caress it's all so wrong.
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Mar 17, 2020 18:43
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Ginette Reno posted:At that point both sides realize the influence Hawke wields in the city and try to persuade him to their side. I don't quite get this point of view: what influence? Hawke gets some fancy armor and that's about it. The moment that sticks out most to me in Act 3 is when Mage Elf, Crazy Lady, Useless Nun, and Hawke are all gathered up while discussing the tense situation and when the question of "who should actually be in charge here" comes up, Hawke can volunteer to become Viscount, and Crazy Lady just says "lol no". Great influence there. drkeiscool fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 19:12
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drkeiscool posted:I don't quite get this point of view: what influence? Hawke gets some fancy armor and that's about it. The moment that sticks out most to me in Act 3 is when Mage Elf, Crazy Lady, Useless Nun, and Hawke are all gathered up while discussing the tense situation and when the question of "who should actually be in charge here" comes up, Hawke can volunteer to become Viscount, and Crazy Lady just says "lol no". Maybe its because Hawke and their posse seem to murderize the gently caress out of anyone that stands in their way. If you take DA2's encounter design literally Hawke can kill 30-50 people without breaking a sweat. Why go after them when you'll lose at least a company of troops in the process. And if we take savescumming literally, Hawke has CHIM
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Mar 17, 2020 19:19
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VostokProgram posted:Maybe its because Hawke and their posse seem to murderize the gently caress out of anyone that stands in their way. If you take DA2's encounter design literally Hawke can kill 30-50 people without breaking a sweat. Why go after them when you'll lose at least a company of troops in the process. Okay, does the story of the game acknowledge this, outside of whatever obligatory winks a BioWare game does? I don't recall it doing that, am I mistaken? That still doesn't answer my question, even. What influence does Hawke have?
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Mar 17, 2020 19:24
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drkeiscool posted:I don't quite get this point of view: what influence? Hawke gets some fancy armor and that's about it. The moment that sticks out most to me in Act 3 is when Mage Elf, Crazy Lady, Useless Nun, and Hawke are all gathered up while discussing the tense situation and when the question of "who should actually be in charge here" comes up, Hawke can volunteer to become Viscount, and Crazy Lady just says "lol no". You can get her to agree to that actually, Hawke can be viscount if he is friendly with the templars.
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Mar 17, 2020 19:27
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drkeiscool posted:Okay, does the story of the game acknowledge this, outside of whatever obligatory winks a BioWare game does? I don't recall it doing that, am I mistaken? Hawke is outrageously wealthy thanks to the Deep Road expedition and got a ton of social cache from handling the Arishok
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Mar 17, 2020 19:27
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VostokProgram posted:Maybe its because Hawke and their posse seem to murderize the gently caress out of anyone that stands in their way. If you take DA2's encounter design literally Hawke can kill 30-50 people without breaking a sweat. Why go after them when you'll lose at least a company of troops in the process. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa8CHfVk4IA Isabela: Your death toll is approaching "natural disaster." Anders: Another twenty steps, another batch of deaths. Varric: I'll just call that group "enemies" and footnote it later. Isabela: We had a short-lived drinking game based on how many enemies you have. It killed a man. drkeiscool posted:Okay, does the story of the game acknowledge this, outside of whatever obligatory winks a BioWare game does? I don't recall it doing that, am I mistaken? The influence of being the hero who saved the city from a Qunari invasion? All those Nobles gathered in the Keep were probably gonna be executed so Hawke single-handedly saved the lives of all of Kirkwall's elite.
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Mar 17, 2020 19:28
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Okay, cool! So there’sa reasonable argument that Hawke has influence in Kirkwall! What can you do with it?
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Mar 17, 2020 19:30
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re: Hawke and co.'s murderousness:party chatter posted:Varric: Oh, cheer up, Blondie. You're making me cry just looking at you.
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Mar 17, 2020 19:35
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Pattonesque posted:A weird thing about Dragon Age as a series: since a lot of players tend to stick with the same type of character, and since Dragon Age spans more than a decade, there's bound to be some Thedosian historian who's gonna be like "huh, every significant hero of the past 10 years has been a sarcastic redheaded lesbian mage. weird" Hey. In my case it's a sarcastic blonde lesbian rogue.
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Mar 17, 2020 19:41
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Orsino and Meredith both have missions for Hawke in the Act 3 of the game, choosing one is foreshadowing which side you'll support or not support after the explosion if the player chooses. They are looking for the Champion's power, influence, and favor, and this will effect who you want to side with in the endgame. Hawke is explicitly sought after to attend the Orlesian garden party as Champion by Tallis. That's because he's the only one with enough influence to actually intervene in the plot or whatever it was the Duke had planned. "You're the Champion, big, important!" Sebastian Vael also has lines about relying on Hawke due to Hawke being Champion in his Act 3 scenes iirc. Stop flipping out about DA2, lol. We know its a thin game because of circumstances we've already talked about but yes, the elements are there. Hawke is being actively courted and sought after during Act 3.
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Mar 17, 2020 19:41
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HIJK posted:Orsino and Meredith both have missions for Hawke in the Act 3 of the game, choosing one is foreshadowing which side you'll support or not support after the explosion if the player chooses. They are looking for the Champion's power, influence, and favor, and this will effect who you want to side with in the endgame. Okay, everyone tells you that you’re influential and are actively courting you for favor. What can you actually, concretely do with this influence? How can you affect the gameplay or the narrative of da2 with Hawke’s influence?
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Mar 17, 2020 19:56
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