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multijoe posted:According to the anime, with UI Starter Edition Goku still has to think about attacking which limits their effectiveness and strength, whereas MUI is all limiters removed complete god mode but at the cost of immense strain on Goku's body which eventually completely craps out on him. In the manga, ???
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Mar 21, 2020 01:03
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yeah Sign is just "oh I'm so zen I don't have to waste 0% energy on movement and defense" while MUI is "I move and hit as hard as an angel"
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Mar 21, 2020 01:05
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Black August posted:yeah Sign is just "oh I'm so zen I don't have to waste 0% energy on movement and defense" while MUI is "I move and hit as hard as an angel" i'm still bothered by what exactly it is about ultra instinct that makes it a power-up if it's just an energy efficient form, cool, but is it drawing from Goku's own potential? is it like a Gohan thing where it's like his own power drawn out to the maximum he's capable of?
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Mar 21, 2020 01:17
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grieving for Gandalf posted:i'm still bothered by what exactly it is about ultra instinct that makes it a power-up it's a kind of unique deal for once Sign is very much about martial arts stuff he was taught, move like X, zero energy in motion, swaying and effortless, approaching zen Full MUI is taking that to its absolute - Goku is now fighting, fully divine, as an angel does, which is zero energy use, zero thought, zero hesitation. This actually had a consequence like the also-divine Kaioken technique does, horrific bodily stress from making your mortal shell perform at perfect angelic levels. Sign and MUI are states of mind and martial arts battle flow so experienced, trained, and perfected, that Goku can actually achieve the angelic reality of what Roshi can do in false-but-mighty imitation of the ideal. Goku, now a divine mortal, is learning Angel Martial Arts. This is the result.
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Mar 21, 2020 01:24
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Black August posted:
All he needs to do now is use super sayan ON TOP of that. Also Kayoken x 100. Then he'll finally be strong enough to beat his true nemesis, Super Sayan Shadow Cumber (Full Power). Sample_text fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Mar 21, 2020 |
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Mar 21, 2020 01:41
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Also keep in mind in this manga Roshi was able to attain a pseudo-UI state during the Tournament of Power It's not really about raw power or just bashing your head against a wall until you get stronger but about a mind frame and sharpening your skills to the absolute limit.
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Mar 21, 2020 01:49
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Black August posted:it's a kind of unique deal for once yeah but why does it let him hit harder
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Mar 21, 2020 01:56
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grieving for Gandalf posted:yeah but why does it let him hit harder because Whis taught him how to really gently caress up a guy's ribs he's U7, for an angel he fights like a back alley pennykiller on a 50/50 of xanax and coke
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Mar 21, 2020 01:59
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grieving for Gandalf posted:yeah but why does it let him hit harder imagine if you roll 20 for every roll. that's ultra instinct. you just let the auto crits take the wheel. seriously, think about the surfing kamehameha and tells me that's not a DM justifying the nat 20 on why Goku didn't get hit and then beat Kefla
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Mar 21, 2020 01:59
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grieving for Gandalf posted:yeah but why does it let him hit harder Kid Buu logic. Not thinking about whether you're holding back or not makes you stronger.
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Mar 21, 2020 02:00
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Kild posted:imagine if you roll 20 for every roll. that's ultra instinct. you just let the auto crits take the wheel. actually yeah that's exactly how I'd describe it to dice-rollin' folks ok even better it's like going from speedrunner peak perfection, to being a full TAS - every single frame perfect
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Mar 21, 2020 02:01
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Basically it's Super Saiyan White.
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Mar 21, 2020 02:04
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it's less that he's hitting 'harder', he's hitting with a maximum of his peak force, directed at your immediate weakest point, directly through your armor, past your ki defenses, around your slow blocks and parries, and he's doing it in succession 20 times in a row, in the space of a few seconds - if every hit has the 'Ignores Armor' and 'Ignores Defense' and 'Always Crits' options on it, you're going to just steamroll the fucker by chipping them apart blow after blow
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Mar 21, 2020 02:04
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Pureauthor posted:Basically it's Super Saiyan White. I actually feel like MUI is more Super Saiyan than the original, in that it promises legitimate unstoppable and legendary power that's terrifying so agreed
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Mar 21, 2020 02:06
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It gives you the same hair and eyes as the angels for a reason, after all
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Mar 21, 2020 02:16
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MUI is legit destinct from SS which is what makes it cool. A lot of people seemed to just want SS5 or whatever tho
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Mar 21, 2020 02:55
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TheHan posted:My least favorite parts of Super are when Piccolo acknowledges how useless he's become. C'mon man, even Tien pretends. I had a good laugh at him asking "When did you get so far ahead of us?" I think the last time Piccolo's been equal in power to Goku (or any of the Saiyans for that matter) was for a hot minute in between him fusing with Kami and Goku entering the Time Chamber.
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Mar 21, 2020 03:42
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TwoPair posted:I had a good laugh at him asking "When did you get so far ahead of us?" I think the last time Piccolo's been equal in power to Goku (or any of the Saiyans for that matter) was for a hot minute in between him fusing with Kami and Goku entering the Time Chamber. He was stronger than them during that hot minute. He was also apparently roughly equal with Vegeta during the Cell Games, but got left behind during the time skip when Vegeta learned how to do SS2 like Gohan.
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Mar 21, 2020 04:17
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A major thing about Goku and indeed all Saiyans (especially Super Saiyans) is that they are incredibly strong but have to work really really hard to focus that power. We saw that with the various Saiyan powerup forms where they struggled with emphasizing ki conservation/speed/strength/etc. Even with Super Saiyan Blue we're shown that they still have more they can pull out such as Kaikoken or Super Saiyan Uguu. Mastered Ultra Instinct seems to be them having perfect control over every movement, ever bit of ki used, everything. Goku isn't invincible but he's basically near the top of his form in a way that Super Saiyan can't offer because it's a combination of everything that makes him a dangerous fighter pushed to its absolute max. I think it's worth remembering that most people in Dragonball Z don't actually fight at their absolute limit because their absolute limit is something that could very well kill or overwhelm them. The best they can do is buff themselves up for short periods of time at some form of cost to themselves. (Either burning through energy, injuring themselves, or literally killing themselves.) Mastered Ultra Instinct is a Goku who is using his maximum power and doing it in focused targeted ways. So not only is he stronger than normal but his incredibly more efficient than usual. That matters because while Goku is stronger in the MUI fight he's not that much stronger. What is happening is that he's dodging most attacks and landing blows he wasn't before.
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Mar 21, 2020 04:22
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multijoe posted:just loving on train with Whis Piccolo. You're literally half god half demon, go get some of that god juice. Thinking about it, Piccolo has never done any training with anyone much more powerful than him with the expressed goal of getting stronger. He's the personal trainer of the group; people go to him to get back into shape, or to work on something new, but we rarely see him train much anymore. I'd like to see Piccolo finally admit that he needs help to improve; it definitely bothers him that he's not able to keep up with Goku, and if Vegeta can finally swallow his pride and undergo some training with different masters, then so can Piccolo. I wouldn't expect him to jump to SSB levels without fusing with another Namekian, but he'd be a lot closer than he is now.
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Mar 21, 2020 06:23
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Shinji2015 posted:Thinking about it, Piccolo has never done any training with anyone much more powerful than him with the expressed goal of getting stronger. He's the personal trainer of the group; people go to him to get back into shape, or to work on something new, but we rarely see him train much anymore. I think the thing with Piccolo is that he is constantly improving, just not as quickly as the Saiyan's. He's pretty reliably the #3 if Gohan is slacking off or #4 otherwise. He just exists in that weird realm where he can wreck most people's poo poo but not anyone important.
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Mar 21, 2020 06:28
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ImpAtom posted:I think the thing with Piccolo is that he is constantly improving, just not as quickly as the Saiyan's. He's pretty reliably the #3 if Gohan is slacking off or #4 otherwise. He just exists in that weird realm where he can wreck most people's poo poo but not anyone important. Piccolo and Gohan exist in that spot where they're theoretically strong enough to wreck most peoples poo poo but are purely there to be bodied to show how big a threat someone is.
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Mar 21, 2020 07:13
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Testekill posted:Piccolo and Gohan exist in that spot where they're theoretically strong enough to wreck most peoples poo poo but are purely there to be bodied to show how big a threat someone is. AKA a slightly less important Vegeta
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Mar 21, 2020 07:27
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maybe vegeta will use the ultimate technique goku is too afraid to use: instant transmissioning inside moro to explode him from within
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Mar 21, 2020 07:35
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CharlestheHammer posted:MUI is legit destinct from SS which is what makes it cool. In the anime I found UISign a lot more distinct as a powerup/fighting style. Once his hair turned white it's back to being another level of Super Saiyan.
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Mar 21, 2020 08:01
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I would say with MUI, in the anime at least, it is depicted as a staight powerup too. Goku gets it by reabsorbing that galaxy of energy he produced fight Jiren and then in the next scene he's literally glowing like a battery of divine energy, and I figured his body gives out at the end from the strain of keeping all that juice under control. Of course who knows how that'll be handeld in the Toyotaro manga, super loving weird that up to this point we've basically had two seperate version of the same story with numerous diversions and differing interpretations of the same plot elements.
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Mar 21, 2020 08:45
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I know it's Mastered Ultra Instinct and Ultra Instinct -Sign-, but we should probably just accept that most non-DB fans are just gonna call it Sherry Bahm fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Mar 21, 2020 |
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Mar 21, 2020 08:57
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Goku Blanco
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Mar 21, 2020 09:18
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So why couldn't Piccolo sense Goku? Didn't he have the ability to sense God energy thanks to Kami?
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Mar 21, 2020 10:14
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Goku Blanco sucks
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Mar 21, 2020 13:42
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Darth TNT posted:So why couldn't Piccolo sense Goku? Didn't he have the ability to sense God energy thanks to Kami? Kami quit being a God when he fused, and lost his Godly perks. He couldn't sense Super Saiyan God, but Dende could.
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Mar 21, 2020 14:16
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I think a lot of Piccolo's improvement might come from the old adage; 'the best way to learn is to teach'.Rudoku posted:Kami quit being a God when he fused, and lost his Godly perks. He couldn't sense Super Saiyan God, but Dende could. Yeah, Dragon Ball more or less follows Eastern religious ideas where the line between 'god' as a job and 'god' as an achieved status is a little blurry. Goku was offered the job of Earth's God once, I think.
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Mar 21, 2020 16:13
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Just after beating Picoro Junior for the first time, yeah.
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Mar 21, 2020 16:16
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Rudoku posted:Kami quit being a God when he fused, and lost his Godly perks. He couldn't sense Super Saiyan God, but Dende could. This doesn't track because he could sense Kaioshin in the Buu Saga
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Mar 21, 2020 17:59
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Blockhouse posted:This doesn't track because he could sense Kaioshin in the Buu Saga I'm 100% sure Shin is too incompetent to use God Ki.
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Mar 21, 2020 19:04
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Neo_Crimson posted:I'm 100% sure Shin is too incompetent to use God Ki. I don't think competence has anything to do with it! If you're a god, you've got god ki. (Of course no one including Toriyama had any idea "god ki" was a thing during the Buu Saga but in retrospect it fits perfectly)
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Mar 21, 2020 19:08
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Blockhouse posted:This doesn't track because he could sense Kaioshin in the Buu Saga The Kaioshin give off Ki.
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Mar 21, 2020 19:10
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Though it’s kind of funny as being able to sense it doesn’t really do anything. It’s kind of like power levels in general though. If your opponent was stronger they were stronger, knowing that fact didn’t change anything
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Mar 21, 2020 19:11
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MonsterEnvy posted:The Kaioshin give off Ki. Is there any indication of this? Because I can't think of a time where it's come up.
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Mar 21, 2020 19:16
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CharlestheHammer posted:Though it’s kind of funny as being able to sense it doesn’t really do anything. Not quite. At the speeds the guys move now, they no longer really "see" anyone they fight, they sense their energy.
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Mar 21, 2020 19:58
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