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Vavrek posted:A great look crosses her face when, at a timing that would've been perfect for him to ask her out to dinner (whether or not she'd want to go out with him), he offers to help her unpack with an "I'll bring pizza!" This is the sort of thing that makes me wish Pat Tallman got more roles following up on B5. She did some really nice work in the later parts of the show.
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Mar 18, 2020 01:13
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Star Trek: Picard spoilers: Did you see who Tamlyn Tomita (the actress of Laurel Takashima) is playing on Picard? And what said character does? I wonder if there are any Babylon 5 fans among the show runners, that casting choice is making too much sense.
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Mar 19, 2020 08:37
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Watching Atonement, and I've got to say: everybody's right. Dukhat is the best Minbari.
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Mar 22, 2020 02:20
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After barely having relations with most of the galaxy for a very long time, the Minbari greet the first new explorers they see in a while with a ritual of respect to pretend to be moving in for an attack. Nobody outside of the Minbari know about the ritual because isolationism, but then if the Minbari ever considered what other races thought about things, a lot would be different.
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Mar 22, 2020 02:37
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Dukhat, being the best of them, is the only one to recognize that maybe there's a problem with the situation. Also: Callenn: "You would destroy the purity of our race!" Delenn: "But our race is not pure!" And people say Infection is skippable.
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Mar 22, 2020 02:41
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Vavrek posted:Watching Atonement, and I've got to say: everybody's right. Dukhat is the best Minbari. He's okay, but have you considered Draal being too old to give a poo poo about  ?
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Mar 22, 2020 03:51
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Draal is great but he is second best. edit: Also some very good Minbari: the tailors who are adjusting Zack's suit at the start of the episode, and who stab him with a needle for his stupid remarks. (Worker caste best caste.)
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Mar 22, 2020 04:17
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Vavrek posted:Draal is great but he is second best. Has anyone translated the Internationale to Minbari?
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Mar 22, 2020 05:13
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Vavrek posted:Watching Atonement, and I've got to say: everybody's right. Dukhat is the best Minbari. And played by Reiner Schöne, who was one of only two good things about Mortal Kombat: Annihilation.
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Mar 22, 2020 11:27
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Has anyone translated the Internationale to Minbari? Are we sure it wasn't translated from Minbari ?
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Mar 22, 2020 11:35
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mllaneza posted:Are we sure it wasn't translated from Minbari ? Given that Minbari is a caste-based society and only a third of the ruling body are workers: yes.
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Mar 22, 2020 12:09
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Was it ever mentioned how big the individual castes were? Did the Worker Caste make up like 80-90% of the population, or did each caste contain about one third of all Minbari?
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Mar 22, 2020 12:34
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Torrannor posted:Was it ever mentioned how big the individual castes were? Did the Worker Caste make up like 80-90% of the population, or did each caste contain about one third of all Minbari? S5: When Delenn realigns the Grey Council to have five Worker Caste and two from the other castes, I believe she says that Workers are the great majority of the people.
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Mar 22, 2020 13:37
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Jedit posted:S5: When Delenn realigns the Grey Council to have five Worker Caste and two from the other castes, I believe she says that Workers are the great majority of the people. Pretty much. More specifically; The Warrior and Religious Castes are small groups with very loud voices, and the Worker Caste has been stuck in the middle of their in-fighting for millennia. They're the ones that actually build the great ships and temples both are so proud of.
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Mar 22, 2020 14:11
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Pretty much. More specifically; The Warrior and Religious Castes are small groups with very loud voices, and the Worker Caste has been stuck in the middle of their in-fighting for millennia. They're the ones that actually build the great ships and temples both are so proud of. (Minbari caste stuff) It is we who build the warships, built the temples where they pray (to quote Solidarity Forever)
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Mar 22, 2020 21:50
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I don't recall ever seeing any named/speaking roles identified as worker caste.
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Mar 22, 2020 23:08
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Gnome de plume posted:I don't recall ever seeing any named/speaking roles identified as worker caste. Only Grey Council members
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Mar 22, 2020 23:54
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They should've made worker caste Minbari have their horns go into a helmet, and then it would be way easier to stick them into scenes without having to do full makeup.
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Mar 23, 2020 01:57
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SlothfulCobra posted:They should've made worker caste Minbari have their horns go into a helmet, and then it would be way easier to stick them into scenes without having to do full makeup. Caste isn't necessarily genetic, though - occasionally someone will change caste. (The cynic in me says that the Worker Caste don't get to just follow their hearts, but I imagine suitably talented individuals might be encouraged to discover a new calling.)
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Mar 23, 2020 02:21
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At one point, it's mentioned that the Warrior Caste make up 33% of Minbari society. The idea is that each Caste makes up a third of Minbari society, until Delenn changes things later on.Gnome de plume posted:I don't recall ever seeing any named/speaking roles identified as worker caste. None of them ever show up. This is because the Minbari were originally intended to have only two castes - Warrior and Religious. In Season One, Lennier says that Minbari society is made up of the two big castes and while JMS talks about there being 'worker class' Minbari on Usenet, I don't think any mention of the Worker Caste as a thing happens until Season 3.
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Mar 23, 2020 06:09
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You could sort of do a handwavey with "Religious cast" and "Warrior caste" and "default" (workers).
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Mar 23, 2020 06:13
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or it could just be incoherent unplanned worldbuilding
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Mar 23, 2020 07:08
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My take on the Minbari society goes something like this. What little concrete info we have says that the Minbari have three castes - Warrior, Religious, Worker - and that the Warrior caste makes up a third of their population. Fans take this to mean that all the Minbari soldiers are in the warrior caste, and all the priests are in the religious caste, and so on. This is backed up by something, I think, Neroon says: "workers build, religious pray, we fight." But I don't think it's so simple, if only because even five seconds of thought brings it into conflict with the events of the series itself. The most obvious of these is when Delenn breaks the Grey Council. The Warrior caste doesn't follow her and just kind of sit around Minbar doing their own thing for a year. Yet, Delenn ends up with a bunch of battle-ready Minbari warships immediately and a bunch of people to man the White Stars later on. In In the Beginning, the human military guy remarks that 'a third of their society is made up of soldiers' and Londo says 'No, they have a warrior caste, not the same thing.' So, this implies two things. One, that there are warships and trained crewmen who aren't members of the Warrior caste. Two, that the warrior caste isn't composed entirely of what we'd consider front-line soldiers. In my head, what this means is that the Minbari castes aren't firmly delineated. The Warrior caste isn't just made up of soldiers, but their support network and logistics chain and so on, too. So, in that sense, there might be 'Warrior caste workers.' Or there might be Religious caste warship crews. But I'd say the vast bulk of each role is performed by each caste and there are probably honor rules and traditions that mean that, like, each Caste 'takes point' on whatever issue concerns them or when dealing with outsiders. I think this is something Neroon maybe points out, that the religious caste crewing the White Stars was a disruption of tradition, but I'm not sure. We see this with the guy from Season 1, too. He was a Religious leader until the Earth-Minbari War, where he promptly switched to Warrior and became one of the war's best generals. Seems to me that the guy had overlapping skills or experience. I think mention is made that Valen united the Castes under the Grey Council, so, there's that idea of them each being self-sufficient entities that do more than just build, pray, fight. So, like, while we see Warrior caste soldiers all the time and they have the cool black uniforms and spiky bone crests and such, that's only the view you get as an outsider. Internally, there might be Religious soldiers who are like Zen monks and Worker soldiers who are like a citizen's militia and while the Warrior caste can surely maintain and repair their Sharlin warships, everyone knows that if you want new ships built, you go the Workers first. Likewise, if you're going to war, offensive or defensive, it's the Warrior caste who go out there and fight and take all the credit. Goast posted:or it could just be incoherent unplanned worldbuilding I think my favorite bit of incoherent, unplanned worldbuilding in B5 is in Season 1 where Neroon's ship comes toward Babylon 5 with gunports open and every single human on the command deck is, like, 'what the gently caress, are they going to start shooting, what's going on.' But you'd think that the Minbari gunport honor thing would be beaten into the heads of every person who went through the EA military academies post-war given how the war started, and you'd especially think Sinclair would recognize it immediately. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Mar 23, 2020 |
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Mar 23, 2020 09:20
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Of course, it would be entirely in-character if the Minbari still haven't cleared up that miscommunication, and ten years after the war, humans still don't know why first contact went so horribly wrong...
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Mar 23, 2020 12:49
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:In my head, what this means is that the Minbari castes aren't firmly delineated. The Warrior caste isn't just made up of soldiers, but their support network and logistics chain and so on, too. So, in that sense, there might be 'Warrior caste workers.' Or there might be Religious caste warship crews. But I'd say the vast bulk of each role is performed by each caste and there are probably honor rules and traditions that mean that, like, each Caste 'takes point' on whatever issue concerns them or when dealing with outsiders. I think this is something Neroon maybe points out, that the religious caste crewing the White Stars was a disruption of tradition, but I'm not sure. I don't think this is mentioned either way in the show directly, but at least for the Warriors it'd make sense that the 'supporting personnel' are somehow integrated into the Caste. I guess similarly the Religious could have people whose jobs are to make pretty paintings of religious themes or somesuch. Do Minbari have art? None of the races in B5 really make sense as entire races of people, except maybe the Centauri.
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Mar 23, 2020 13:17
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Pick posted:You could sort of do a handwavey with "Religious cast" and "Warrior caste" and "default" (workers). Thant's pretty much exactly what JMS did.
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Mar 23, 2020 13:28
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Angry Salami posted:Of course, it would be entirely in-character if the Minbari still haven't cleared up that miscommunication, and ten years after the war, humans still don't know why first contact went so horribly wrong... Not to mention that any survivors from the war and the Battle of the Line likely learned an extremely different meaning for "Minbari warship with open gunports", and it wouldn't be that they were sending a polite greeting.
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Mar 23, 2020 13:35
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Rappaport posted:Do Minbari have art Yes, remember Shaal Mayan?
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Mar 23, 2020 14:17
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:I think my favorite bit of incoherent, unplanned worldbuilding in B5 is in Season 1 where Neroon's ship comes toward Babylon 5 with gunports open and every single human on the command deck is, like, 'what the gently caress, are they going to start shooting, what's going on.' But you'd think that the Minbari gunport honor thing would be beaten into the heads of every person who went through the EA military academies post-war given how the war started, and you'd especially think Sinclair would recognize it immediately. B5 isn’t always coherent, but this makes perfect sense. Assuming in the chaos after the initial incident that there was even time for an inquest, all they would find out is that the Minbari approached ready to fire and the Earthforce commander overreacted. By the time that gets worked out talking with the survivors from the Minbari pursuit, the war is happening in earnest and everyone involved has good reason not to make a big point about how the war was Earthforce’s fault. And the war is a disaster. At what point would the President hold a press conference and admit that humanity is being destroyed and it’s our own drat fault? And post-war, of course, the Minbari don’t explain. And it’s unlikely that, until this episode, any Minbari warship approached an Earth ship with gunports open, largely because the average Minbari captain has no respect for humans at this stage. The Minbari in this episode are being deliberately rude, to the extent that Neroon tells Sinclair to ask the ambassador when reassuring him about the gunports thing. And if memory serves, even here the gunports are open as a sign of respect for the dead Minbari war leader, not Babylon 5.
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Mar 23, 2020 14:53
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:One, that there are warships and trained crewmen who aren't members of the Warrior caste. I just always assumed that the white star crews were religion caste. Their robes sure don't look warrior caste, and neither do their head bones. Also: I thought it was assumed that the white stars were mainly built during the time that the warrior caste was all "gently caress you dad" to everyone so they were built and manned without their help.
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Mar 23, 2020 16:28
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I’m pretty sure that the white stars are religious caste only. I think Delenn says as much when she takes sheridan to the first one.
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Mar 24, 2020 02:14
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TK-42-1 posted:I’m pretty sure that the white stars are religious caste only. I think Delenn says as much when she takes sheridan to the first one. They are. The Warrior Caste don't really show up much except to throw their weight around and be dicks to everyone prior to the Starfire Wheel and The Grey Council getting rebuilt.
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Mar 24, 2020 02:18
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Do b5 ships even have gunports
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Mar 24, 2020 04:19
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sebmojo posted:Do b5 ships even have gunports famously
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Mar 24, 2020 04:21
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TK-42-1 posted:famously Well... temporarily.
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Mar 24, 2020 04:33
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Man, Minbari are just the worst. edit: Someone remind me, did John ever find out about Delenn's whole KILL ALL HUMANS thing? Jeremiah Flintwick fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 04:47
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TK-42-1 posted:famously i just don't remember seeing any is all
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Mar 24, 2020 04:54
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Zartosht posted:Someone remind me, did John ever find out about Delenn's whole KILL ALL HUMANS thing? No as far as I remember, that was kinda the entire point of Delenn's comfort in becoming half human to partially atone for it.
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Mar 24, 2020 05:08
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sebmojo posted:i just don't remember seeing any is all B5's defense grid has a lot of stock footage of its guns deploying any time someone starts poo poo outside the station.
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Mar 24, 2020 05:09
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Zartosht posted:Man, Minbari are just the worst. According to the JMS Speaks She never tells him
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Mar 24, 2020 05:38
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