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The music from E1M8 is amazing, especially on high-quality sound hardware like the Roland SC-55. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLvSD5HuIcE
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Mar 28, 2020 01:49
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SoundBlaster or nothing  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL44ECABBB2F44C6F7 Hwurmp fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Mar 28, 2020 |
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Mar 28, 2020 02:27
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There was an unacceptable level of Commander Keen hate in that last episode. 
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Mar 28, 2020 04:22
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Thinking about it, I've never actually made an honest attempt to play through the original Doom. I suppose once I'm done with the campaign in Doom Eternal, I can fire it up on the Doom Slayer's sweet-rear end 386.
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Mar 29, 2020 03:55
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Gnoman posted:Monsters of the same type can infight with melee attacks, you just rarely see this, and when you do it is with melee-only monsters such as the Pinky, because it is really hard to get two imps to aggro each other. I've been playing for years and only seen it two or three times with ranged-capable enemies. Yep, infighting of monsters of the same type is a bug of the engine, usually exploited with barrels. Take 2 barons - baron A damages a barrel and it explodes, damaging baron B in the process. Baron B checks to see what caused the barrel to explode and goes after whoever that was (Baron A). Barons are immune to their own green projectiles but can still be tricked into attacking one another in this way, it's a cool quirk of the very normal and not at all loving bizarre engine that is Id Tech 1.
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Mar 29, 2020 22:37
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Returning to WAD and mod talk for a moment, I've just (re-)discovered this very comprehensive history of Doom mapping that covers all the most influential WADs from 1993 to 2019. There's been quite a few of those  Another one I recommend looking at is Going Down, certainly one of the most inventive and conceptually interesting mapsets I've encountered. It's somewhat difficult, but just watching a video playthrough is already very much worth it. (It obviously uses all the enemy types from Doom and Doom II, so it probably counts as something of a spoiler for those games if you haven't seen them yet, I suppose?)
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Mar 31, 2020 18:13
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 Don't pet the cacodemon except with bullets or fists
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Apr 3, 2020 20:01
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sorry to digress from butthole chat butquote:Chaingun sucks in Doom 2016 I see somebody never got Mobile Turret or Rich Get Richer because the chaingun absolutely tears poo poo up
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Apr 3, 2020 20:26
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DooM always had save-anywhere. What the source ports add is an autosave at the start of every level so you never get forced into a pistol start.
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Apr 3, 2020 20:40
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The Doomworld forums once had a little informal tournament called April Agitation intended to sift out the best among all the maps from Doom and Doom II. The winner: E2M2: Containment Area Honestly, as someone who has never actually played Doom but watched and read copious amounts about it and its mapping scene, it's quite fascinating to me that the quality of particular levels from the original games remains such a divisive issue. There's hardly any level that doesn't get both praised and condemned at some point. By the way, since you mentioned getting somewhat scared whenever a Baron of Hell appears... The Doomwiki has some statistics about monster use in custom WADs and apparently the single map with the most Barons is Holy Hell Revealed, sporting no less than 2056 of them (the map has 41.660 monsters in total). That's a lot even by the standards of that sub-genre of custom Doom maps.
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Apr 3, 2020 21:29
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To be fair that is probably a nod to the source material; Hell Revealed (and its sequel) are notorious for overusing Barons on account of them being such a boring enemy. Holy Hell Revealed is just a bullshit challenge map. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Apr 3, 2020 |
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Apr 3, 2020 21:36
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really appreciating the early caco love in this episode o3
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Apr 3, 2020 22:56
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"Just change the blood" reminds me of fairly recent Earth Defense Force 5 It's okay that these dismembered alien commandos are covering entire skyscrapers with their own blood, it's purple!
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Apr 4, 2020 01:24
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Section Z posted:"Just change the blood" reminds me of fairly recent Earth Defense Force 5 Unlike Doom's demons, the EDF5 alien infantry are so human-like that red blood would be frankly disturbing.
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Apr 4, 2020 01:43
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Lost Souls always seemed a little too bullet spongey for small swarming enemies. I actually like Doom 3's version better because of that. The enemies in general here tend to be real bullet sponges, now that I think about it.
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Apr 4, 2020 04:09
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Hwurmp posted:Unlike Doom's demons, the EDF5 alien infantry are so human-like that red blood would be frankly disturbing.  Hmm, would it be more ridiculous to mod Doom weapons into EDF, or EDF weapons into Doom... then again, there's already not a whole lot of difference between the BFG 9000 and a high-level plasma launcher. But yeah, Doom Eternal is the second bloodiest game I've played behind EDF5.
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Apr 4, 2020 04:38
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I think the main reason people chose to forgive Doom 3's flashlight silliness is because its shadows are really nice looking.
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Apr 4, 2020 10:09
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More (possibly) interesting technical notes from my brief stint of DeHackEd-ery: There's a stat for Explosive Damage on many of the objects in DOOM, such as rockets, fireballs, and barrel explosions. This is also how Lost Souls attack. They don't, in fact, have any melee capability. They just fly at you and explode on impact, but don't die from it. I had "fun" in one set of changes by dropping that damage to 0 and raising their HP to the maximum that would fit, essentially making them harmless but indestructible flying obstacles. This made some levels effectively impossible, even when I set their mass so low that they'd fly across the room from any impact. For reasons, this was a terrible idea in DOOM 2. I also experimented with the explosive damage from other things, such as a rocket that blew up everything in the entire level (including Doomguy, R.I.P.), but I think my favorite one was setting the last frame of the exploding barrel animation to transition to the first frame of the exploding barrel animation. The barrel would explode over and over forever, becoming an impassable landmine that once triggered, would never stop triggering. I also replaced the barrel explosion with the explosion frames of the weapon we've yet to see. DOOM veterans will probably cringe in horror at the thought. One thing I really wanted to get working was replacing the rocket launcher's projectiles with Lost Souls, turning the weapon into a flying skull launcher, but they got stuck in the barrel and blew up in my face every time. Shame, really. Oh, and it is possible to raise the maximum HP so that you never waste a Soulsphere. I don't know why it's capped at 200. Armor, too, but that's much harder to accumulate.
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Apr 4, 2020 11:46
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I don't think the Shores of Hell episode is visually uninspiring, its problem is just that it represents a stepping stone between the first and the third. The Hell in Doom slowly subsumes anything it conquers. Because levels in the game rarely look like anything ("realistic" level design came with Duke Nukem 3D), this is mostly represented by changing textures and props. We had the first taste of it in E1M8 (Phobos Anomaly), but the changes were still pretty small: torches, a giant satanic icon you need to step on to finish the level, etc. Where we are now is a UAC base on Deimos, but it seems to had been conquered much earlier – hence the "inconsistent" level design. The trappings of a military and science complex in space (concrete walls and floors, pits filled with glowing green fluids, computers, metal doors, normal switches) are mixed up with masonry, altars, reliefs, skull switches and other, weirder stuff (like the faces flowing inside the wall). The deeper we go, the more prevalent the changes are: Deimos Anomaly seemed almost normal, while in Deimos Lab the hellscape was much more prevalent than the trappings of an actual laboratory.
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Apr 4, 2020 12:40
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Shores has the best creepy music.
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Apr 4, 2020 12:51
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The Sky May Be when?
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Apr 4, 2020 18:21
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Hwurmp posted:I think the main reason people chose to forgive Doom 3's flashlight silliness is because its shadows are really nice looking. Due to the source being out, theres a wonderful mod of doom 3 for VR, where all of the complaints of doom 3 suddenly work. The amazing lighting as you walk around with a flashlight in your left hand and a gun in your right, shadows dancing everywhere you move your light, the small claustrophobic spaces, monster closets, it all just pops. It feels like all the quirks of doom 3 were actually ahead of its time and just waiting for VR to be a thing. Its like going through the greatest haunted house ride ever made.
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Apr 4, 2020 23:21
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Returning to the topic of music, there was this two-bit power metal band a long time ago who never really got anywhere, but they DID make this really drat  medley of various tracks from Doom that still kicks rear end to this day. I especially like the way they wove sound effects from the game into it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ddnR8Ya7Xc And speaking of sound effects, my first real "Wow!" moment with video games was when my friend got an actual sound card for his computer and we got to play Doom with actual sound effects instead of the goddamn PC Speaker. Well, maybe that was my second wow moment, after actually, you know, loving seeing Doom for the first time. Nordick fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Apr 8, 2020 |
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Apr 8, 2020 04:49
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In light of the talk about running punches, I feel like I should say that, while not a thing in Doom, is very much a thing in Marathon, Doom's mac contemporary by Bungie. Marathon also had 3D level geometry, which due to the weirdness of computer map design, meant levels could also have 4D space where two rooms occupied the same location. It was a thing.
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Apr 8, 2020 08:36
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chiasaur11 posted:In light of the talk about running punches, I feel like I should say that, while not a thing in Doom, is very much a thing in Marathon, Doom's mac contemporary by Bungie. Marathon also had 3D level geometry, which due to the weirdness of computer map design, meant levels could also have 4D space where two rooms occupied the same location. That's impressive considering the Doom engine can't even have vertical rooms overlapping each other. As an aside, wow. E4M1 is kicking my rear end. The difficulty spike is real. 
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Apr 8, 2020 15:59
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chiasaur11 posted:In light of the talk about running punches, I feel like I should say that, while not a thing in Doom, is very much a thing in Marathon, Doom's mac contemporary by Bungie. Marathon also had 3D level geometry, which due to the weirdness of computer map design, meant levels could also have 4D space where two rooms occupied the same location. Ah, the good old duke nukem map design where you run a 360 circle and wind up somewhere else.
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Apr 8, 2020 18:32
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The Descent engine from 1995 could also do the "4D" thing where separate level spaces could occupy the same location and the player could end up in different ones based on how the spaces were connected. It was never intended functionality so it was a bit glitchy: You'd sometimes get visual glitches and area of effect damage would apply across all intersecting spaces while point damage stayed local.KeiraWalker posted:As an aside, wow. E4M1 is kicking my rear end. The difficulty spike is real. It's a real kick in the groin on E4M1 with loads of shotgunners and I think five barons of hell (or is it 6?) in very close quarters. The rest of the levels are significantly easier with E4M2 and E4M6 being the other notable stand outs for difficulty.
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Apr 8, 2020 19:18
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KeiraWalker posted:That's impressive considering the Doom engine can't even have vertical rooms overlapping each other. Apparently, it was basically the same programming that allowed 4D space as allowed 3D space. Bungie found out about the weird exceptions and made some multiplayer maps around it. Comparing the release date to Doom, they had a lot of impressive stuff for the time, like alt fire for some weapons, a plot, friendly AI, and mouse aim. Probably worth a poke for historical curiosity, if nothing else, since all of them are free now. Plus, the series has a pretty nice shotgun.
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Apr 9, 2020 05:44
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chiasaur11 posted:Probably worth a poke for historical curiosity, if nothing else, since all of them are free now. You had me at "shotgun." Coincidentally, I've gone from playing Doom inside Doom Eternal to having Ultimate Doom w/Sigil, Doom II, Evilution and The Plutonia Experiment installed in GZDoom with new HUD, mods for extra animation frames for every actor in the game, heavy metal soundtrack instead of MIDI, high definition sound effects, and others. Over the course of about two days. This game is addictive and easily modded.
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Apr 9, 2020 15:59
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It is always worth checking out Brutal Doom as far as mods go, even if the creator's on the garbage side.
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Apr 9, 2020 16:06
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KeiraWalker posted:You had me at "shotgun." Probably worth noting that the Shotgun doesn't appear until Marathon 2. It is very much worth it, though. Gnoman posted:It is always worth checking out Brutal Doom as far as mods go, even if the creator's on the garbage side. There's also Project Brutality, a spin-off of Brutal Doom that adds a heap of custom weapons and enemies that can randomly replace the regular enemy types. It's also a nice example of the sheer amount of shared content the Doom community has produced over the years, since most of those custom enemies in particular were originally developed for other mods (or even for no particular mod at all) and are now basically public domain for anyone who wants to use them. One of those enemies even somehow got its own Doomwiki page; I think Jacob might like that one
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Apr 9, 2020 21:28
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 Walk like you're not affected by your own rockets' blast radius.
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Apr 10, 2020 20:09
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Why make an effort if there's Game Engine Black Book: DOOM!
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Apr 10, 2020 21:09
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NHO posted:Why make an effort if there's Game Engine Black Book: DOOM! Because an effort post doesn't cost $50 to read. So Doom's in-game data--enemy positioning & pathing, level geometry, player coordinates, bullet velocity, etc etc is all based on 2D coordinates. The game renders a 3D representation of a two-dimensional map--with the height of each floor surface and ceiling manually set as a modifier by the person making the map. Ways in which this is visually apparent are A) point your gun at a monster and fire; whatever elevation they're at, they will take damage as long as they're on screen and there's nothing between you and them; B) switches can be operated from any elevation as long as they're in line of sight from somewhere in your immediate area. If you can get on the correct side of it, it doesn't matter if you're above it or below it, you'll activate it. Basically, every actor in the game (player, monster, switch, item, etc) is infinitely tall, because the game's code has no concept of height. Source ports like ZDoom/GZDoom take that 2D data and append 3D data to it, like collision cylinders--for instance, in the original game monsters can not pass above or below each other, or the player. If using ZDoom however, that isn't the case--a cacodemon can fly over your head without colliding with you. Or Jacob can crowd surf over a pack of imps. You know, whichever! Edit: Edited for clarity and grammar. I can get really sloppy when I'm talking about poo poo I'm interested by. Edit the 2nd: I see there is a free PDF of that book; my apologies to NHO. By all means, it probably does a better job of getting into the technical specifics than I ever will! Edit the 3rd: Jesus, the number of cacodemon buttholes I've had to look at in the last 30 minutes. KeiraWalker fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Apr 10, 2020 |
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Apr 10, 2020 21:25
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Re: Demons being friends, I like to imagine they are like chickens given how quick they are to turn on each other and infight (like chickens). Yeah sure they'll hang out together but only by circumstance. A shared goal almost. Chickens desire that sweet chicken feed, demons desire a dead marine. But then again, who wouldn't want to be friends with this sweet mushy tomato. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Apr 10, 2020 |
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Apr 10, 2020 22:16
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Cacos are the cutest.
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Apr 10, 2020 22:37
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I'm enjoying the LP thanks to the commentary, but I'm seeing where my problems with Doom 2016 come from. The original game was no less boring.
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Apr 10, 2020 22:38
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CJacobs posted:Re: Demons being friends, I like to imagine they are like chickens given how quick they are to turn on each other and infight (like chickens). Yeah sure they'll hang out together but only by circumstance. A shared goal almost. Chickens desire that sweet chicken feed, demons desire a dead marine. 
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Apr 10, 2020 22:39
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Okay, so I've got a couple of words about Fortress of Mystery because you didn't really show off what it is about (though no fault of your own - I blame the difficulty level since there would be more monsters -equating to less ammo- on UV). Basically, this map is a showcase level for the mechanic of infighting. Cacos and Barons are among the easiest monsters to get to infight, the level layout makes it extremely easy to land that first shot that starts the war. Dodging around while the two groups of enemies duke it out is a lot more fun than just slaughtering the cacos in a chokepoint, too. I feel the map would work a lot better if they forced a pistol start on it but E2 doesn't really do that kind of difficulty.
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Apr 10, 2020 22:53
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Oh my god I think my ovaries just exploded.
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Apr 11, 2020 00:08
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