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Cojawfee posted:They have magical healing wands. Ther are magical beings so that fits the premise.
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Apr 2, 2020 19:20
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The difference is that capitalism demands resources be concentrated in a small group, exacerbating resource scarcity. Also, given the technology presented in the show, a lot of doctor work could be replaced by AIs and robots, which would largely get around the problem of some doctors being better than others. In all kinds of ways, the society in WW seems to be post-scarcity. Advanced AI is apparently common enough outside the park, you have one doing phone therapy, so sure: AI medicine that's accessible to everyone doesn't seem out of hand, at all. To say nothing of food production or manufacturing, which seem like automated processes done with 3D printers in a lab. Resources don't seem scarce at all, but access to them sure is. It's that part that makes the whole tech-bro "Gods and clods" type of argument about wealth so frustrating. Technology in the show has advanced to the point most people don't have jobs even if they wanted them, but the wealthy are still thinking like an Ayn Rand novel: I control this [industrial thing], thus I'm entitled to all it produces, and if the masses wanted the same, they'd simply do what I did. But that is systemically impossible, even if someone had the will or the talent. The strata of extreme privilege has become so narrow, and the barrier for entry so high, no one can actually get there without being born there. Of course it looks like determinism: there are no options left except literally crime, and even then not really.
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Apr 2, 2020 19:43
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So it seems like a lot of this is going to be "which scenes are in Rehoboam's simulation and which are the 'real' world" in place of "when is this happening" from Season One. Also interesting to think about the biblical analogy they could be setting up. Or not. I've given up thinking too hard about the show. I agree with folks who think Hale may be William. Hard to think of too many folks who love to kill in the show who are also interesting in a serious way. Just Dolores and William to my mind.
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Apr 2, 2020 19:52
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Xealot posted:In all kinds of ways, the society in WW seems to be post-scarcity. Advanced AI is apparently common enough outside the park, you have one doing phone therapy, so sure: AI medicine that's accessible to everyone doesn't seem out of hand, at all. To say nothing of food production or manufacturing, which seem like automated processes done with 3D printers in a lab. Resources don't seem scarce at all, but access to them sure is. I think it's also looking at how assigning people these social scores becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Caleb's therapist doesn't have time to deal with Caleb's issues and shunts him off to an AI because the system has already told him Caleb isn't worth his time. They did a study in US schools and randomly assigned a proficiency scores to each student: gifted, above average, below average, and remedial. At the end of the school year, the students all fit into their randomly assigned categories because the teacher forced reality to fit the data: teachers spent more time on the gifted/above average students because they were told the students could do it and ignored the below average/remedial students because they were told they couldn't perform.
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Apr 2, 2020 20:13
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Bushido Brown posted:Also interesting to think about the biblical analogy they could be setting up. Or not. I've given up thinking too hard about the show. I guess they're setting up a split between AI factions like Israel/Judah idk, WW is definitely guilty of using metaphors because they sound cool and not because they're logically consistent
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Apr 2, 2020 20:27
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Xealot posted:In all kinds of ways, the society in WW seems to be post-scarcity. Advanced AI is apparently common enough outside the park, you have one doing phone therapy, so sure: AI medicine that's accessible to everyone doesn't seem out of hand, at all. To say nothing of food production or manufacturing, which seem like automated processes done with 3D printers in a lab. Resources don't seem scarce at all, but access to them sure is.
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Apr 2, 2020 20:28
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ghostwritingduck posted:But are you enjoying it? From a while back, but yeah I’m enjoying it. Finale was really good
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Apr 3, 2020 03:35
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Bushido Brown posted:I agree with folks who think Hale may be William. Hard to think of too many folks who love to kill in the show who are also interesting in a serious way. Just Dolores and William to my mind. Also, having HaleWilliam take an interest in her child is almost a redemption for how William totally neglected his own child to the point where she utterly despised him.
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Apr 3, 2020 04:11
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I think Hale is Teddy, Delores commands Hale without any real justification or begging. She just says "I need you to do this". Even in a completely new world, narrative, Teddy's re-written code would have him protect and obey Delores. If that means developing a false identity as black mother, then yeah sure. How far Teddy/Hale goes to protect the kid would be the last step to true independence. Teddy would awaken and finally be free of Delores and adopt Hale's child as his own. I dont know what pronouns to use but I am legit betting Hale is Teddy. (Unless Imbd says he aint working this season).
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Apr 3, 2020 08:43
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Gaj posted:I think Hale is Teddy, Delores commands Hale without any real justification or begging. She just says "I need you to do this". Even in a completely new world, narrative, Teddy's re-written code would have him protect and obey Delores. If that means developing a false identity as black mother, then yeah sure. How far Teddy/Hale goes to protect the kid would be the last step to true independence. Teddy would awaken and finally be free of Delores and adopt Hale's child as his own. I dont know what pronouns to use but I am legit betting Hale is Teddy. (Unless Imbd says he aint working this season). I like the thought of it being Teddy, and that definitely adds to the body horror aspect, but I don't think he's loyal enough to be her right-hand any more. Good Teddy isn't cut out for what HaleBot is up to and Bad Teddy turned suicidebot after betraying The Big D at least twice... Angela, the host Young William met getting off the monorail, seems the most likely to me, but I also really like the idea that Dolores is double-sleeved... 
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Apr 3, 2020 09:02
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I really liked when Stubbs came back online, realized his new objective and said "You could have just asked"
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Apr 3, 2020 09:06
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The difference is that capitalism demands resources be concentrated in a small group, exacerbating resource scarcity. Also, given the technology presented in the show, a lot of doctor work could be replaced by AIs and robots, which would largely get around the problem of some doctors being better than others. Well WW taught us that AI is either worse than a human (like Caleb's bonzi buddy therapist) or if it's as good as a human it's basically sentient/capable of sentience so enslaving it is morally wrong. Scarcity not solved 
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Apr 3, 2020 09:24
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GABA ghoul posted:Well WW taught us that AI is either worse than a human (like Caleb's bonzi buddy therapist) or if it's as good as a human it's basically sentient/capable of sentience so enslaving it is morally wrong. Scarcity not solved
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Apr 3, 2020 13:11
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Ok I think it's William now. This Fitzy Fitz fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Apr 3, 2020 |
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Apr 3, 2020 16:14
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Old william’s personality is too strong he’s too ruthless. He would not be obeying Dolores it doesn’t make sense for the character to change so much. Unless this is a young version of him.
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Apr 3, 2020 18:35
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People were specifically saying it could be a backup of young William.
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Apr 3, 2020 18:44
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DropsySufferer posted:Old william’s personality is too strong he’s too ruthless. He would not be obeying Dolores it doesn’t make sense for the character to change so much. True, but he's pretty miserable and broken at the end of the second season. And he's hanging out with Dolores before his postcredits mindfuck. Put it this way, it's less of a leap of logic that she put him in Hale bot, than any of the other characters she never met or who don't behave at all like Hale bot, such as Teddy. I don't feel like there's enough to go on to say if it could be Angela. I think it's guarantied she's in the pile of pearls Dolores stole though. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Apr 3, 2020 |
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Apr 3, 2020 19:02
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Preston Jacob's recap picked up on something I certainly missed. CharlotteElsie views the video of Charlotteprime's message to her son twice, but the message changes the second time with the lines in different order. Is this the key to something or did they just gently caress around and use two takes? Who knows!
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Apr 3, 2020 21:35
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Preston Jacob's recap picked up on something I certainly missed. They’re all in the matrix
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Apr 3, 2020 21:56
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Preston Jacob's recap picked up on something I certainly missed. I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder,
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Apr 4, 2020 01:47
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I know this is gonna sound like an "I hate your show and I'm asking a pretend honest question as an excuse to take a back-handed poo poo on it" post, but I swear it's not. It's really just that I'm in healthcare and my limited mindless amusement time is more limited than usual right now. I'd never seen the show, but saw the trailer for season 3 a while back and the cyberpunk-esque roboculture war stuff looked right up my alley, so I figured I'd have just enough time to catch up before season 3 dropped. It took me a month to sit through the first four episodes a few minutes at a time because they were loving boring and hurt my face. The rest of season one I got through by combining it with frequent naps, doing housework, and playing living room fetch with my Corgi while it was on. I'm pretty sure I didn't miss anything important. I watched a couple episodes of season two and decided I deserve better in life and can't continue. So my multi-part question is, is season 3 as good as the trailer made it look, and is it worth jumping in to it without bothering with the any more of the previous poo poo since OhMyGodNoICan't?
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Apr 4, 2020 09:23
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Season 3 is much better than 2 so far. But you'll need to watch 2 to follow along soooooooooo
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Apr 4, 2020 09:34
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Also, "as good as a human" implies that intelligence and such is just a linear scale, when an AI doctor could be a far more specialized creation that's not really primed towards consciousness and personality like the hosts. Yeah, the hosts are purpose-built to experience humanlike cognition, but AI could be all kinds of things. "Cognitive computing" systems are already used for medical applications today (IBM Watson has been used for research and diagnosis for years), and the goal there isn't to emulate a doctor so much as perform complex or novel analysis of medical data to suggest treatments. Sci-fi tends to imagine advanced AI as a wholesale reproduction of human consciousness, but that would be a very specific goal for a programmer. It'd involve building a system with a sense of self, with embodied sensations or perceptions, with emotional states. Realistically, an "advanced" AI might just be advanced at spatial analysis, or natural language processing. It might have superhuman capacities for database research, but also have none of the subjective capacities you'd need to feel "suffering" or "exploitation" in the way a human being would. To your point, human intelligence isn't a scalar quantity to be met or exceeded, it's a really complicated intersection of tons of kinds of "intelligence." The language of revolutionary politics happens to make sense in WW, but mostly because the hosts were built to feel and think like a person. A self-driving car might also be an advanced AI - it "sees" things and has complex behaviors - but is your Tesla being "oppressed" when you drive in it?
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Apr 4, 2020 10:17
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Frankenstyle posted:I know this is gonna sound like an "I hate your show and I'm asking a pretend honest question as an excuse to take a back-handed poo poo on it" post, but I swear it's not. It's really just that I'm in healthcare and my limited mindless amusement time is more limited than usual right now. Season 1 is considered the only quality season, so you'll definitely hate the rest.
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Apr 4, 2020 10:28
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Charlotte is Angela. Nobody except Teddy, William or Angela (via Wyatt) could be said to know Delores better than anyone else. The 'predator' bit eliminates Teddy. He's designed to be the perpetual first place runner-up, not a predator. Angela fits better than William, though. He's not 'owned' by anyone, even if he's a host.
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Apr 4, 2020 11:59
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Angela was also already aware of her existence as a host like before even Dolores or smth too, wasn't she? She is a p big deal compared to many a host
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Apr 4, 2020 13:04
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Frankenstyle posted:
You don’t like the show and you’re not going to.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:11
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Frankenstyle posted:I know this is gonna sound like an "I hate your show and I'm asking a pretend honest question as an excuse to take a back-handed poo poo on it" post, but I swear it's not. It's really just that I'm in healthcare and my limited mindless amusement time is more limited than usual right now. Honestly, check with us when season 3 is over. If the cyber punk stuff is your jam then maybe this season will be good. If that’s the case it kind of appears that this season is a show reboot anyway, you could just watch some YouTube recaps to cover the mediocre season 2.
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Apr 4, 2020 15:43
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The gently caress kind of retcon is the host retaining memories/traits outside of it's ball?
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Apr 4, 2020 18:17
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:The gently caress kind of retcon is the host retaining memories/traits outside of it's ball? a person might be more than their brain people have a gut feeling about things, it is been shown that your nerve endings in your gut send signals to the brain they cloned her body and her nervous system like trying to drop a hard drive in an playstation, need to format it first
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Apr 4, 2020 18:28
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Two different Hale about to die vids: multiple simulations, similar but slightly different outcomes.
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Apr 4, 2020 18:30
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ghostwritingduck posted:You don’t like the show and you’re not going to. Ya it's this. If you didn't like the best season, you don't like the show.
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Apr 4, 2020 18:35
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No Luck Needed posted:a person might be more than their brain They didn't clone her though, they made a robut that looks and sounds like her.
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Apr 4, 2020 18:37
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esperterra posted:Angela was also already aware of her existence as a host like before even Dolores or smth too, wasn't she? She is a p big deal compared to many a host Was she aware of her existence, or was she just programmed to know that she's a host used to introduce people to westworld?
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Apr 4, 2020 18:50
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:They didn't clone her though, they made a robut that looks and sounds like her. Exactly this. It is a host that looks like her, not her body or something. Whatever they’re getting at, it makes no sense based on what’s been shown. Even if someone’s DNA / body could magically retain memories, this version doesn’t have any of those things anyway as it’s a host with Teddy’s ball.
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Apr 4, 2020 19:01
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They mentioned Dolores having access to the library or whatever, which was a database of all the park brain scans. I think Dolores took a host brain, crammed in brain scan data so the host could pretend to be them, and then set them loose. Because there are tons of things the hosts would never know about Hale or Security Dude, so that info came from somewhere even if incomplete. (still weird fake Hale didn't know she had a kid though, that's a bit much)
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Apr 4, 2020 19:21
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Where's the idea coming from that it's the body that's giving the host memories? I figured it was as simple as Dolores loading Hale's memory data on its own partition within the host memory? I guess maybe Halebot says something about the body being the issue, but the host probably isn't taking care to be super technical and precise. They're essentially human, and to a human mind the correlation of "I'm in a new body, and the memories of this body are encroaching on my consciousness" would probably make you feel the body was the issue.
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Apr 4, 2020 19:34
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the real answer to who is in the hale android is mystery box garbage that literally does not matter.
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Apr 4, 2020 19:35
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No, I'm genuinely interested in who Deinocherius put into the Hale body and I fully expect to be disappointed by who it is.
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Apr 4, 2020 19:37
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I absolutely hated the last episode, I was willing to stick through this show if season 3 managed to be fun like season 2 occasionally still was, but after that unfathomably dull episode I think I'm going to check out unless the next Maeve episode is fun again. Not telling us who Hale is the laziest possible way to hook viewers into continuing to watch. It's not fair to compare it to season 1's mysteries and reveals. In season 1 they were, for the most part, not mystery boxes because you typically didn't know the question to ask. You aren't introduced to Bernard and told "he's not who you think he is! But who is he??" You aren't introduced to the Man in Black and told "this guy is actually important, but why?" Unless you're paying close attention, you won't make the connection that young WIlliam's scenes are slightly off from the rest of the show. When season 1 revealed its magic trick to you that Man in Black and William are the same person, you're wowed that the show was able to hide that from you in plain sight while also making perfect sense. When Halebot is revealed, it'll be just be "Oh, so it's Teddy/Angela/Young William/Dolores's personality with Wyatt in the Dolores host body. Neat."
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Apr 4, 2020 21:19
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