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Murmur Twin posted:Is there any reason to conceal how it works now that you've used it? I mean I dont feel like im concealing it When someone has enough votes I can force the issue and make their lynch go thru; I p much said that after I did it. It costs one shine to perform
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Apr 16, 2020 04:49
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Grandicap posted:First off, SSV claimed a Shine role. So limited shots. See this is how I would have expected a town Moat to answer the question of "did you consider SSV's claim before you pulled the trigger".
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Apr 16, 2020 04:50
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Moatillata posted:I mean I dont feel like im concealing it What is "enough votes"?
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Apr 16, 2020 04:50
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Moatillata posted:Okay, I am looking through the whole hal thing and I am seeing coordination between MMT and King B So to be clear, in this scenario, I know SSV's alignment is what?
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Apr 16, 2020 04:51
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Murmur Twin posted:See this is how I would have expected a town Moat to answer the question of "did you consider SSV's claim before you pulled the trigger". Yeah, but you asked why my thoughts were and I told you; those are Grandi's thoughts
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Apr 16, 2020 04:51
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King Burgundy posted:So to be clear, in this scenario, I know SSV's alignment is what? You are setting me up for a chain lynch in this scenario like you are opening the door for a moat may be scum since SSV flipped town
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Apr 16, 2020 04:52
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Murmur Twin posted:What is "enough votes"? tres
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Apr 16, 2020 04:53
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Moatillata posted:You are setting me up for a chain lynch in this scenario Ok, still not sure how you got there. But at least I know what you meant. FWIW, I was literally saying that anyone going after you before the flip was being silly. You are like the definition of someone whose SSV's flip sheds light on. If he's scum, I consider you cleared. Even if he flips town, I don't know that that says the opposite.
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Apr 16, 2020 04:55
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King Burgundy posted:Ok, still not sure how you got there. But at least I know what you meant. yeah but its smart because it leaves the door open for it; its very good what I would expect from you King B
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Apr 16, 2020 04:55
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Moatillata posted:I mean I dont feel like im concealing it Murmur Twin posted:What is "enough votes"? Moatillata posted:tres The poker player in me says that if you were town trying to share information, you'dve said "three" instead of "enough" when you were sharing the ability. Aaaugh I hate the logic that we should wait until SSV flips to vote Moat because I feel fairly confident here but if people think I should table this, I will.
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Apr 16, 2020 04:56
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Moatillata posted:yeah but its smart because it leaves the door open for it; its very good what I would expect from you King B Hah. I'm also smart as town, fyi.
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Apr 16, 2020 04:57
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Murmur Twin posted:What is "enough votes"? Yeah I see what you're seeing Moat Why does this detail seem so significant to the investigation, we already saw it in action and have a rough idea, might be nice to know this in case you plan to use it again but this has no bearing on your alignment whatsoever
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Apr 16, 2020 04:57
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Murmur Twin posted:The poker player in me says that if you were town trying to share information, you'dve said "three" instead of "enough" when you were sharing the ability. shoot, I can give you flavor if you want; I give no shits
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Apr 16, 2020 04:57
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Murmur Twin posted:The poker player in me says that if you were town trying to share information, you'dve said "three" instead of "enough" when you were sharing the ability. We would rightly feel stupid if we killed Moat and the flips were SSV scum and Moat town. If we are even doing a second cuddle, Moat should be off the table.
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Apr 16, 2020 04:58
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King Burgundy posted:Hah. I'm also smart as town, fyi. 
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Apr 16, 2020 04:59
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rofl.
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Apr 16, 2020 05:00
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Bifauxnen posted:Yeah I see what you're seeing Moat thank you for at least humoring me bif
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Apr 16, 2020 05:02
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King Burgundy posted:We would rightly feel stupid if we killed Moat and the flips were SSV scum and Moat town. If we are even doing a second cuddle, Moat should be off the table. Fiiine I will move away from this for now. Can I ask your opinion on my Merk case?
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Apr 16, 2020 05:02
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Bifauxnen posted:Yeah I see what you're seeing Moat Sorry, I know my thought processes make more sense to me than they appear in writing sometime. I'm specifically accusing Moat of lying about his role, and believe that the lack of detail in his answer (until pressed) is a tell that he's lying.
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Apr 16, 2020 05:05
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Murmur Twin posted:Fiiine I will move away from this for now. I understand where you are coming from on it. But I think points 1, 2, and 3 aren't that solid. I've seen Merk play that exact same distracted game as town. I remember thinking to myself that he wasn't playing like he used to, maybe he was scum. He wasn't. Point 4 though. I really don't understand what that is from Merk. Maybe super defensive scum response? I can see it.
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Apr 16, 2020 05:10
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So MT, Moat being a proven (not just claimed) dude who can help us avoid no-lunches by forcing the issue on someone who has already earned some votes and suspicion, like a vig with some checks and balance on him, that doesn't factor into your read at all? Seems at least as townie to me as tracker, heh
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Apr 16, 2020 05:10
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Murmur Twin posted:Sorry, I know my thought processes make more sense to me than they appear in writing sometime. What
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Apr 16, 2020 05:12
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Guys pack it in I think we caught mmt Gj all
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Apr 16, 2020 05:15
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i don't get it
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Apr 16, 2020 05:44
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i guess im fine with waiting until vimes flips before we vote out moat, just on the off-chance that he killed scum. even though i highly doubt that's the case... but whatever. if we lunch someone else today, it shoudn't be hal, and tbh i dont even understand the cases on him despite a ton of effort to case him. i'd vote mmt for reasons stated by others, or somber for reasons i'll get into later when i want to put in effort
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Apr 16, 2020 06:46
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Steak said I'm scum so actually he's probably scum. really makes you think don't it?
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Apr 16, 2020 07:24
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Bifauxnen posted:So MT, Moat being a proven (not just claimed) dude who can help us avoid no-lunches by forcing the issue on someone who has already earned some votes and suspicion, like a vig with some checks and balance on him, that doesn't factor into your read at all? Seems at least as townie to me as tracker, heh Is this like a joke or do you not understand the difference between these two situations?
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Apr 16, 2020 08:23
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Moatillata posted:Guys pack it in I think we caught mmt To be clear: you're town, you think I'm scum, and you think my great play as scum was to try to push momentum on someone we'd have more information on tomorrow? Moatillata posted:Cmon mmt not a fan of your framing here Please link a post showing something similar, it's possible I've just never seen this or have forgotten. FOR THE RECORD I am ceding the point that we shouldn't vote Moat until we see SSV's flip. Bifauxnen posted:I was replying to your last question, but "someone the scum has to NK" seems pretty shaky to me now that I'm looking at that bit OK "scum has to NK" was a bad word choice, "a claimed role that scum has to play around" is more what I meant. It's a role that, if town, has the ability to out scum if not kept in check. I can't tell if you're having trouble understanding me or reading me in bad faith.
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Apr 16, 2020 08:41
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##vote Hal Going to sleep for the night, more tomorrow.
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Apr 16, 2020 08:42
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Murmur Twin posted:Is this like a joke or do you not understand the difference between these two situations? Partly a joke. They're not exactly the same situation, but the humorous juxtaposition is meant to have people seriously reflect on whether you were practising what you preached, taking roleclaims into account or letting them at least give you pause
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Apr 16, 2020 09:10
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I didn't respond to MMT's case because I did not think additional discussion on it would help me determine her alignment, and I don't really care if someone is casing me anymore. From the work she's done on day 1 here and her ability to actually create a case on me from a 'merk might be scum' type of read, I thought she was more likely town. Thus, I kind of waved it away. She's asked me to respond, so I will: Murmur Twin posted:My case against you comes down to a few things: I have changed a lot as a player and am constantly trying to change. This point feels genuine of you to me because we haven't played together in awhile. quote:2. I think Hal seems obviously scummy, and you've agreed on paper with the suspicion. But there's no follow-up on Hal - instead, Merk seems like he's strongly trying to land the vote anywhere other than Hal. My issue with Hal is that I almost always think Hal is scum. I am trying very hard to not vote Hal. This, again, feels genuine of you to me because it is odd that I've nodded at Hal being scum and then ignored it. quote:My early vote on Grandicap was made very early in the game, and my mind changed almost immediately after Grandi started posting more. So it's very suspicious to me that Merk would quote it later on in the game as a "good post" and imply that he thinks that there's merit to it. I think it's a fake opinion. I don't really remember what happened here. I have some large concerns over Grandicap as I've said before. When I saw your post, I thought it was a good point. I'm not sure whether I looked at your later context to see that your thoughts changed. quote:4. What town player thinks like this? This is a huge OMGUS, there is no reason for Merk to think Somber's post was scummy even if he disagreed with Somber's read. You are missing some context here or maybe my point isn't obvious: Somberbrero posted:it feels like you're hanging back in the cut more than usual, taking pot-shots but not engaging discussion the way you would normally merk posted:I was the first to case SSV and SSV died. Somb thinks I'm scummy because I'm "hanging back in cut more than usual," and I am refuting that point by showing that a case I made got SSV killed. I'm clearly scum hunting when my biggest case of the day ends up getting someone lynched. It's not an OMGUS from me. Now that I've gone through this exercise, MMT failing to appreciate that last point's context is kind of scummy. A quick, surface read of me would get you to where she came out - failing to actually try to get behind the intent of a post is scummy. This, however, very well could've just been a tack-on point from MMT. On balance, I think MMT is probably town... but I'll read again to make sure that is right.
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Apr 16, 2020 14:06
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On what to do right now, we should no lynch and see this flip. For example, votes against Moat do not make any sense without SSV's flip. Let's let the day end and reevaluate when we have flips to work with.
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Apr 16, 2020 14:12
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Captain Foo posted:The statement Hal got Voted because he encouraged grandi to keep posting, I think, is false are you really acting like this post isn't an obvious misrepresentation: Hal Incandenza posted:I would probably vote any of the four people who are accusing me of being scum for encouraging grandi to keep up entertaining stream of consciousness posting.
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Apr 16, 2020 15:29
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Murmur Twin posted:Can someone explain to me what the joke is? "Ha ha he claimed a power role, now he's dead"?  i want to see the flip but i'm really feeling moat for scum rn
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Apr 16, 2020 15:31
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Moatillata posted:The whole back and forth; the callout, the unvote it looks manufactured. MMT is grilling Hal for what I was perceiving as his normal play style and then goes on. The way she is playing reminds me of a game where I caught her as scum because she was taking arguments at their smallest level and fixating on weird stuff without a regard for the poster as a whole. Also, the fact that she was the only one to reread foo at my request and then came back with a lean town result and then when asked why she only quoted stuff that he had posted since I called him out and asked people to reread him. what's wrong with this? why is that scummy
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Apr 16, 2020 15:33
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If you think we will have multiple lynches tomorrow, why would you not just reeavalute Moat based on this SSV flip? If SSV flips scum, there's no way that's a bus, right?
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Apr 16, 2020 15:36
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Murmur Twin posted:The poker player in me says that if you were town trying to share information, you'dve said "three" instead of "enough" when you were sharing the ability. what why i think moat is lookin scummy but i see actually zero advantage to lunching today vs. reassessing tomorrow with more info i don't possibly see why you would be so confident that you would not want to wait
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Apr 16, 2020 15:36
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I haven't mentioned my own reasons for suspecting Hal. Compared to what others have already been pointing out, my thoughts boil down to "he doesn't seem chill enough"
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Apr 16, 2020 15:36
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The only justification to lynch Moat today is: 1) you are sure SSV flips town; 2) you do not think we will have >1 lynch tomorrow; and 3) you're super worried that scum Moat can do something super bad tonight. All of those things have to be in your mind set to lynch Moat right now.
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Apr 16, 2020 15:37
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Murmur Twin posted:To be clear: you're town, you think I'm scum, and you think my great play as scum was to try to push momentum on someone we'd have more information on tomorrow? bahahahaha MMT what so you say here that trying to "push momentum on someone we'd have more information on tomorrow" is a bad play for scum how is it a good play for town????????
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Apr 16, 2020 15:43
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