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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [Mafia] Harry Potter and the Dementor Invasion
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Dexanth
Dec 4, 2003

The last thing an ice cream cone ever sees
i am now catching up with Yuming's posts (aka I have a lot more to go through still) but that is now a much townier vibe after she became active like ~10 hours ago

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:44
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# ? May 5, 2024 15:05
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

merk posted:

Your Jen X read that no one cared about at all?

yes, exactly. I hit scum purchase, and the rats came out to defend.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:44
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

 I'm caught up. Tom Tucker and kingcobweb saw the same post I voted xo as scummy, and I'm confident he jumped on me to defend Jen X

I think xo and Jen X are both scum.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:46
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

 Check out page 15. Xocob literally started washing himself of my blood when it had gotten to 5 votes. Like how much more scummier can you get.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:49
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xopods
Oct 26, 2010

Khris Kruel posted:

you think I'm town because the case is good?

The post is about merk. I was responding to Scientastic's suggestion that I'm trying to set up a chain lunch of merk after you flip and saying that no, I don't plan on voting merk soon regardless of your alignment because his case on you is good. That is, he's not following along with me for scummy reasons, I think he, like myself, honestly believes you to be Scum.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:49
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zzyzx
Mar 2, 2004

 ##vote KK

If he flips scum I'll probably look at Spoonsy, Amni, Leith, xopods, and Sandwolf, in no particular order.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:50
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

 Look at you guys so sure from one post. Must be some mafia geniuses.

You have 21 pages of a built up bandwagon, and you're choosing to ignore it.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:51
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xopods
Oct 26, 2010

Khris Kruel posted:

Check out page 15. Xocob literally started washing himself of my blood when it had gotten to 5 votes. Like how much more scummier can you get.

I was literally saying that I take responsibility for your lunch even though I cannot be 100% sure of anyone's alignment. How is that "washing my hands"? I promise that I will not at any point try to argue that anyone else is more responsible for your death than I am.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:51
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Leith Maclaine
Mar 2, 2018

Adventure comes from insufficient planning.

ASAPRockySituation posted:

Game on.

Merk, xopods, Andy.

Merk - First is a lengthy post from merk about Mikujin, Komaked00 and PQ. Especially the PQ part because I've been scum with PQ before and this rings true.

merk posted:

Not one of these cases is very sexy, but here we go:

1. ##vote Mikujin

Mikujin has made two post call outs:


--



When summarizing his opinions of the game so far, he makes this post:
Throwaway town reads:


Consistent with history scum reads (no votes):


To me, this looks like a player coming to the thread and wanting to make consistent, light callouts and throwaway town reads rather than someone actually here to find scum.

2. Kloaked00:


It's the exact same case that I just made on Mikujin. Kloaked's catch up post is not someone looking at the thread and trying to find and nail scum. It's someone who is looking at the thread to find some safe reads to make with a couple light callouts that don't really matter at all.

3. Pussy Quipped:
Actively participating. Actively not scum hunting.


This is Pussy Quipped's only content-filled post. PQ did the same thing in another game as scum that I followed live after having an investigation result saying PQ was scum, so it jumped out to me.

Then after going back and forth a bit with Kloaked 00, KK draws attention and merk catches it

merk posted:

KK's tone reads pretty scummy. He's acting like town leader in posts but hasn't done anything to really advance discussion.

merk posted:

This is a classic scum move when a player is voting someone you know is town. Appear helpful by asking a question... but really distance yourself from that player's vote on town.

It doesn't really look like KK helping a scum buddy because a subsequent post where KK says that Andy is town.

and then merk gives more details by quoting KK in

merk posted:

You don't need a lot of posts to have the tone I'm describing. Here are snippets that jumped out to me (almost his whole post history):

and then

merk posted:

KK's reads are way overblown in confidence for d1:



KK makes no mention at all of his concern over Amnistar earlier in the day. He also never makes an alignment read during that questioning.



Did KK forget that he had this read on Amnistar earlier?

Merk then goes back to when he was hunting PQ which squares with my memory after I got bussed by PQ and Hal in that game and banters a bit with PQ

merk posted:

I don't think it jives because KCW's original vote is at least 50% joke, he pursues the joke further by pasting in a wikipedia history screenshot, and then he unvotes when he sees real content.

Merk drops the PQ argument because the KK case is better. But I trust merk to remember it later if needed.



Now onto xopods

For so early in the game, he makes a policy vote, also has the added advantage of a flavor argument.

xopods posted:

This is a very solid case for this stage of the game.

Also, miller policy lunch.

##vote Mikujin

This seems to be a pretty good intellectual argument supporting amni which gives with xopods play as town in cookfia recent.

xopods posted:

Why do people always mistake describing a thing for arguing for that thing?

I was telling Amni that I think in a normal-sized game it's correct to be paranoid when you make a case D1 and it gets a lot of immediate support. (Implicitly, because there's a good chance there are Scum trying to push an easy Town lunch).

Then I continued to say that being in a big game changes things, because the number of players is overwhelming and playing a normal D1 seems like too much effort to a lot of people. There's a much higher than normal chance that someone following another person's case is a lazy or overwhelmed Townie compared to a smaller game where there are going to be more people trying to put their hands on the game and lead it the way they want.

I did say I'd been tempted to do exactly that, but I meant that as evidence of the phenomenon. I wasn't saying I was going to do that or encouraging others to do it. Just saying it's an easy impulse to understand.

also xopods admits doubt about an initial read on E+ since E+ has been in a lot of games, which rethinking ones positions also feels town to me.

xopods posted:

He was also on my short list. I hesitated about him because his posting also reads as disengaged and waiting for something to happen, which is usually a Town tell early in the game. However, that's more the case for less experienced players as veteran Scum tend to be pretty laidback.

Now that I check Votefinder and see that E+ has played like five million games, I'm more inclined to believe my initial gut reflect to his posting.

Would vote him too.

I don't agree with this, but then I've only played 2 games with yuming, but this isn't a tell either way

xopods posted:

Impossible to tell? Yuming is the easiest person in the world to spot as Scum once she starts posting.

Which does make it a little bit suspicious that she hasn't done so yet, but it's also less than 24 hours into D1 despite the absurd number of posts.

This is where it gets real, this is a real supported case that is thoughtfully laid out and intellectual town xopods, who I just played with in cookfia and ignored when he was town. I am not making that mistake twice.

xopods posted:

Now that I've mentioned that two people voted for by others made me gut read short list when I read some post histories yesterday, I might as well say who else is on the list...

Of the people that have been discussed a lot, I think Liger is the worst.

Of people that haven't been talked about much, I remember Spoonsy, zzyzx, Dexanth and Khris Kruel all pinged me yesterday.

Looking over them again, KK jumps out as particularly bad. I may actually prefer him to Kashuno or E+. This sequence of three posts gives me strong scum vibes:




The first two mostly for gut feel reasons, but then the third one the combination of "nothing has really blew my skirt up" followed by "this screams scum" is inconsistent. It may seem like a little thing, but to me it gives the impression of someone who:

  1. Was initially only intending to post the first bit
  2. Decided that posting only Town reads was going to attract suspicion
  3. Felt he should include a Scum read and vote and went to find something he could vote on
  4. Forgot that he'd just said he didn't have any strong Scum reads and overstated his case

##vote KK but would still vote Kash or E+.

Preview Edit: Dammit DBD beat me to this

Continues to make the argument against KK when challenged by Scientistic

xopods posted:

I understand what you're saying...

But he did do it, or something of the sort. That's a matter of record. Given the inconsistency between the first and second halves of his post, he had to have done things in a certain order:

(1) Wrote that he's got a Town read on some people but no real Scum reads
(2) Decided not to hit send but first go back and read some other players
(3) Come back with a "strong" scum read that he'd missed earlier (whether because he'd genuinely overlooked it or hadn't looked at all)
(4) Posted without realizing that the strength of his read in (3) conflicted with what he said in (1)

To me it's what comes in between (1) and (2) that seems self-conscious enough to be Scummy. To you it's what comes in between (3) and (4) that seems so lacking in self-consciousness that it must be Townie.

Now that I understand your thinking better, it seems like a reasonable perspective. However, I think the mistake is subtle enough that it could come down to carelessness rather than a lack of self-consciousness... what started as a quick post turned into something with more effort behind it. Scum are always self-conscious but they're not always meticulous and they do make mistakes. The (3)->(4) step suggests to me a lack of attention, not a lack of caring what others think.

And xopods also reviews his beliefs about others when asked.

xopods posted:

It seems reasonable, but I will say what you're finding scummy about him here is very much like what I found scummy about him in Grandi's Cookfia just a couple weeks ago, and he turns out to be Town there.

It's only one data point and any other meta reads I have on Miku are years out of date, but it makes me less inclined to believe that "posting thoughts but not pushing for any particular lunch" is a scum tell for him. He's still in my null read pile as a result.

I am very open to admissions that he isn't 100 percent sure but he is willing to take responsibility for the vote. I know that I hate no lunches enough that I will happily take 50/50 odds on day 1 and the KK case I believe is much higher than 50/50.

xopods posted:

Also, for anyone on the fence about KK or not really seeing it, there's a strong case to be made for a D1 lunch that can clearly be attributed to one or a small number of players.

Often you end up with votes scattered around close to deadline and Townies shuffle around semi-randomly trying to figure out who there's enough support to lunch. That makes it very easy for Scum to get a Town lunch without taking direct responsibility for it.

I'm not going to say I'm 100% sure KK's Scum cause it's impossible to be 100% sure. But you've got me and merk here willing to take responsibility for this, plus probably DBD though I don't want to speak for him. Anyway, IMO any lunch where you can say clearly "here are the people who made that happen" is a good one from the perspective of information later in the game.

Also, KK will probably turn out to be Scum, so that's also a very good reason to lunch him.

This also pings true to me also. I rarely agree with merk also so I understand where xopods is coming from. I don't agree as I will look at D1 vote patterns as part of what happens on the D1 lunch but to each their own.

xopods posted:

I'm not linking myself to merk or DBD guys, I was just happy to see merk come down so firmly in favor of a KK lunch, not only because it's the lunch I want too but because I think it's good when the lunch is someone that a few people feel very strongly about.

You can say "well whoever you lunch you can go back and see who voted them and who thought they were Scum." Sure. But very often in my experience, the D1 lunch is someone who was everyone's second or third or fourth choice. And so no, in those cases when it's a compromise, groupthink, consensus kind of lunch, I don't think you get very much information about people based on the flip. Because everyone's going to claim credit if the person flips Scum, and if they flip Town, everyone's going to say "well I really wanted to lunch X, but no one else was excited about that so it seemed like Y was the best we could do."

xopods posted:

I assume you that if I was trying to do that, I would be way more subtle about it.

We shouldn't base a D2 lunch on a D1 lunch in any case, that's not what I meant. I was talking about the long term. D1 lunches are often throwaways that don't enter into late game attempts to solve the game because everyone just kinda meanders around and picks someone that everyone can agree is at least "not not-scummy." Those sorts of lunches aren't very informationally useful.

Mostly I just got excited that my KK case was getting traction including from merk who never agrees with me about anything, and wanted to get as many people on it as possible before getting started on my work day, in case something else happened to get people sidetracked. In a game this size if a case loses momentum it's hard to get it started again.

xopods posted:

Okay, I see how you're reading it that way, but what I was getting at is that there are two things we're trying to accomplish by lunching people. The first, obviously, is to hit Scum. But the second is to later draw inferences about other players' alignments based on who pushed for what lunch.

It's easier to that when it's clear and obvious who's accountable for what lunch. Very often D1, especially in big games, there's a lot of semi-random vote movement close to deadline as players try to figure out who they can lunch. It can be ambiguous who actually orchestrated those lunches.

My point was just that if someone's on the fence about KK, there's another good reason to go with him which is that it'll give you a clear, unambiguous data point on a few players, namely me, merk and DBD. I wasn't suggesting anyone act on that information D2 cause that's not how we analyze voting/casing histories. Nor telling anyone what they should do with that info.

I was saying that it's something we'll find useful later in the game, and more useful than your average D1 lunch because of how the case originated. Sorry if that wasn't clear before. Is it clear now?

xopods posted:

Like, from my point of view I really do think KK's going to flip Scum, but if he does it's also going to give me some info about merk. Because merk very rarely agrees with my cases, for one thing. If he were Scum and didn't want to lunch KK, he could easily just ignore my case or call it stupid and move on and it'd be completely on meta.

Ergo, if we lunch KK, then it probably means merk is either not Scum or he wanted to get KK lunched. Does that mean I will know merk's alignment based on KK's flip? Not on its own, no. But it's a puzzle piece that may combine with other puzzle pieces to give me valuable information about merk later, above and beyond the intrinsic value of lunching someone I think is Scum.

That's the sort of thing I mean when I talk about accountability and information.

Finally Andy

As Tom Tucker noted, the timing of Sandwolf and Andy's posts almost simultaneously questions Sci's Liger case.

Tom Tucker posted:

I say Friday evening the sooner Day 1 is over the better.

Scientastic thank you we now have a topic.

Here's another point - once Scientastic got serious Sandwolf and Capn Andy posted simultaneously replies questioning the validity of the suspicion!




This was Andy's defense of Liger which seems off to me. Andy is saying that Liger's behavior is at best unhelpful town and would not be a bad lunch

CapnAndy posted:

I do want to say this about Liger: I think Scientastic's case was extremely weak, and the post that got called out was a pretty obvious joke that needed no defense, and that he has every right to be preoccupied with whatever else is going on in his life (and seriously, it's a bloodbath at the WWE today).

That said, his conduct since then has been extremely poor. I get not wanting to dignify a bad case with a response, but this level of dismissiveness is over the top. It's inauthentic and reads much more like someone who's genuinely pissed off and covering it by feigning an uncaring attitude. Which I can still understand -- Lord knows I've lost my temper when bad cases were made on me in the past -- but I like neither the attitude nor the dishonesty.

Liger, this isn't helpful behavior, man. Everyone gets cased eventually and if this'll happen again on Day 4 or something, I don't want you to have that opportunity. Right now your best case is "unhelpful townie" and that is not a terrible D1 lynch.


but later he says he doesn't want to lunch him. If you don't want to lunch him, then why say he would not be a bad lunch

CapnAndy posted:

I don't want to lynch him, I want him to knock it off and be helpful. And yeah I fundamentally do think he's still town, that's why I didn't vote him.

What I was trying to say is that the case is bad, but his response has also been bad. I don't think that's contradictory at all.

Andy tries to recover from that with these.

CapnAndy posted:

I think scum would have played it differently. I know that the prevailing wisdom is that scum flip out harder when called scum, because townies know they're not scum and therefore the case is fundamentally wrong, so they can be more self-confident, but I think that's wrong. I think it hurts a lot more when you're town, and that can cause people to lash out at the injustice of being attacked.

This is from personal experience, and hey, since nobody liked my post, I can use an actual example to illustrate it: that was genuine and had real effort behind it. When people posted about how bad and scummy a post it is, what I hear is "you are stupid and bad at this game, because nobody good would think those things". But I really did think those things, and it still makes sense to me, so hearing that hurts! If I was scum I would not have this emotional reaction; being called disengenuous on something you're actually being disengenuous about, at least from me, just gets a reaction of "ha okay you got me, guess I gotta try something else to pull the wool over your eyes". This is admittedly a personal problem, so maybe I'm projecting, but like I said in the original post: I think Liger is town, I think his feelings got hurt and he's feigning not caring to cover up being angry, and it's causing him to become an actual detriment because that's not okay behavior. That makes total sense to me. Like I said, I get it. I've done that in the past and I don't want to do it any more, hence the really clinical tone of these posts. I'm being very self-aware.

Also, guys, just for the record? I promise you right now, I am always going to consider every possibility, and probably will mention them in my posts, especially when I'm trying to help. I think having a plan for being wrong is good play.

He then does a countervote on sandwolf which just feels like a distancing to me.

CapnAndy posted:

I don't have a read on Epsilon Plus.

kingcobweb made an egregiously bad drive-by vote.

You're being obdurate; you originally voted me for "being self-aware", and after I made a lengthy post explaining that yes, it was self-aware, because I've lost my temper and become a disruptive presence in previous mafia games and I don't want to do that any more and am carefully monitoring myself against it, you haven't even acknowledged that, let alone gotten off my case. You saw one thing you didn't like and now everything else I say is proof, no matter what. Your mind is made up. Case in point:
Yes, why would I be worried about coming across as scummy with people who think I'm coming across as scummy, especially when I'm trying to change their minds? This is some nonsense, man. I'm asked to defend myself and then accused of defensiveness.

Sandwolf's case against me is entirely wrong, but at least he's made one, and scum don't have a monopoly on being wrong. That said, the more time passes, the more I dislike his "is my case on you scummy" question. It is some "have you stopped beating your wife yet"-level bullshit. I'd like to point out that what you asked is not at all what he did. "Is my case on you scummy" and "give your reads on the people voting you" aren't the same question. I'd like to further point out that he has not yet answered my question of "what response to that would you have accepted as townie" -- he just waited for you to defend him and then went "yeah that". It's deflection. I maintain that the question had no acceptable answer by design. I think he laid a very, very good trap for me and is upset that I looked at it, said "that's a trap", and handed it back.

Y'know what? I've convinced myself.

##vote Sandwolf



And there there is even more awkwardness

CapnAndy posted:

It means that if Liger is going to respond to cases against him by getting really dismissive and leaving the thread, that is not behavior that can be tolerated on later days, when the stakes are higher. I'm sorry if my arbitrary use of "Day 4" to indicate "later on" made things confusing.
Because they can be instructively bad! Later on when we know some actual things, we can see how people acted with those people, and re-evaluate their behavior in the light of this new information. Which is how Mafia is played, and I don't know why you're pretending you don't know that. Or, in other words:

I actually agree with both of these posts, even though they're disagreeing! D1 is a fundamentally weaker day than any other, because we have no information, but playing the game and gaining early interaction is valuable and worthwhile. Any other questions?
I mean I certainly don't think it's a very good case!!!





CapnAndy posted:

Because like I said, I've been there myself and am aware it doesn't actually help the town. It's empathy. I want him to be better. If I wanted him lynched, I'd have called him scum and voted for him.

Then Andy and Amni go at it with Andy staying on Sandwolf, which to be honest, I think this is a pretty good argument though I also think Amni is town. I think this amni argument is stronger than the Sandwolf argument that Andy has presented.

CapnAndy posted:

Excuse me, you're putting words in my mouth that were never there. I've never said I "*know*" Liger is town. That was dishonest of you. As I've said repeatedly, I think it is far more likely that a townie would be emotionally hurt by being cased than scum, because the case against them is wrong. That sort of thing can be hurtful. It has hurt me. I can empathise with it happening to someone else.
Because I was not making a case. I was condemning what I felt was unhelpful behavior. This is why my post included a plea for him to change that behavior.
Because I had no scum reads. As I've also already said, being wrong is not the sole domain of the scum.
This is self-evident nonsense. If I am town and get voted out, the town is, by definition, weaker and closer to losing the game. I may also have beneficial powers whose loss would further hurt the town. (This is not a claim. This is logic.) If I am town, I am acting in the town's best interest by defending myself.
This is true. It also has nothing to do with anything else in this post, most especially the previous statement. The topic shift here is jarring.
Further self-evident nonsense. You are implying that nothing anyone says in good faith can ever be taken as a scum-tell, and that any post that comes off to even a single other player as scummy was a priori a lie. If your logic was correct, no town would ever lynch wrong. Yet this has happened.

Furthermore, you act as though I was always worried about how I'd come off, which is not the case. I made my initial post on Liger's behavior quite blithely. I refused to answer Sandwolf's question on the grounds that I was worried about sounding scummy because, and yet again, this is something I've said before, I had at that point already been accused of sounding scummy. It was and is not a hypothetical and me being aware of it ought to be entirely understandable.

This was really bad arguing all around. You seem to have made the following claims: that town can never be wrong, that town should not defend themselves from being lynched, that posts can never be misread, and that suspicion is its own proof. Are these claims you actually intended to make? If not, can you perhaps not back up and see why I am asserting that you have tunnel vision on me and are obdurately pressing forward regardless of the actual facts?

Andy then goes onto KK with the same arguments that others of us have made.

CapnAndy posted:

Hello I'm back from doing other stuff, sleeping, and then doing my actual job which I'm very lucky to have, and must keep reminding myself of that! Chaff first:
Please tell me why you keep saying "lunch", man, it's not a typo, it's consistent. Browser plugin? Inside joke?

Actual important thoughts:
I really, really like this case. It's gotten no traction in the face of the KK thing, but it's a good one and I would've voted it in support if not for KK. Also, this merk post replying to that quote:
This twinged my antenna so hard. If you like the case -- and for all the qualifiers sprinkled all over it, you're saying you do, I don't see any disagreement -- why not vote? And it just swerves so oddly. "I saw this", "I thought it was weird", "Part of me thought", "I might have", "then I thought", "overthinking it".

The KK thing:

I wanted to do a reread for myself, so I checked KK's post history, and... god, look for yourselves. Take away the pre-game and joke stuff and you're left with five votes. Five! And he hasn't posted at all in the last literal 24 hours.

KK's one decently meaty post, the one with the immediate "nothing blew my skirt up/this screams scum" contradiction that drew the votes in the first place, is perhaps defensible. I'd like to see the defense. I'd like to see any KK posts. I think the silence is much more damning.

##vote KK
* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:52
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

xopods posted:

I was literally saying that I take responsibility for your lunch even though I cannot be 100% sure of anyone's alignment. How is that "washing my hands"? I promise that I will not at any point try to argue that anyone else is more responsible for your death than I am.

You're not, it's the people that went along with you. You've been waffling about me the whole time.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:53
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xopods
Oct 26, 2010

Khris Kruel posted:

Look at you guys so sure from one post. Must be some mafia geniuses.

I pointed to one post that seemed particularly bad to justify my overall gut read. Merk and DBD had other reasons that involved other posts than just that one.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:53
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

Leith Maclaine posted:

Andy then goes onto KK with the same arguments that others of us have made.

because its scummy

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:53
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Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

 I didn’t read those essays the first time around and I’m sure as poo poo not reading them a second time, but good effort Leith.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:54
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Leith Maclaine
Mar 2, 2018

Adventure comes from insufficient planning.

merk posted:

Your Jen X read that no one cared about at all?

*This* Jen X had no traction at all. Claiming that you (I mean KK) got attacked because of your Jen X challenge is totally insane.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:54
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xopods
Oct 26, 2010

Khris Kruel posted:

You're not, it's the people that went along with you. You've been waffling about me the whole time.

Hahaha, what? I have not waffled at all. I can't be 100% sure because it's impossible to be 100% sure of anyone's alignment on D1 of a game of Mafia, but I'm as confident in this as any D1 gut read I've ever made and I haven't wavered at all on that.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:55
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

Leith Maclaine posted:

*This* Jen X had no traction at all. Claiming that you (I mean KK) got attacked because of your Jen X challenge is totally insane.

how so?

Do you think a case based on one post I made as the best read available is scummy?

This is my experience. When I make a few posts and a day 1 band wagon forms from it, its usually in defense of scum.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:55
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

xopods posted:

Hahaha, what? I have not waffled at all. I can't be 100% sure because it's impossible to be 100% sure of anyone's alignment on D1 of a game of Mafia, but I'm as confident in this as any D1 gut read I've ever made and I haven't wavered at all on that.

This is literally waffling

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:55
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Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

 Last time I played with KK we were scum together and he also was the vote leader day 1. And he did something extremely similar to this.

I don’t have a lot of experience playing with him beyond that, though, so that’s really the extent of any meta insight I can offer.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:56
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xopods
Oct 26, 2010

Khris Kruel posted:

This is literally waffling

Admitting that it's possible for a Town player to be wrong about someone's alignment on D1 is waffling?

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:57
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Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Khris Kruel posted:

This is literally waffling

...no. it really isnt.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:57
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

Mr. Humalong posted:

Last time I played with KK we were scum together and he also was the vote leader day 1. And he did something extremely similar to this.

I don’t have a lot of experience playing with him beyond that, though, so that’s really the extent of any meta insight I can offer.

ooh nice job keeping the bandwagon on track. Wouldn't want it to steer off course

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:57
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

xopods posted:

Admitting that it's possible for a Town player to be wrong about someone's alignment on D1 is waffling?

playing both sides to say "ah shucks" when I flip town is waffling

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:57
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Leith Maclaine
Mar 2, 2018

Adventure comes from insufficient planning.

Khris Kruel posted:

how so?

Do you think a case based on one post I made as the best read available is scummy?

This is my experience. When I make a few posts and a day 1 band wagon forms from it, its usually in defense of scum.

Jen has had a grand total of 1 vote on her so far, yours.

I don't see any scenario where the scum team hits the panic button based on 1 vote in a 27 person game.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:57
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

Leith Maclaine posted:

Jen has had a grand total of 1 vote on her so far, yours.

I don't see any scenario where the scum team hits the panic button based on 1 vote in a 27 person game.

you should play more games

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:58
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Leith Maclaine
Mar 2, 2018

Adventure comes from insufficient planning.

Khris Kruel posted:

you should play more games

On that we agree, I'm still a baby around here.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:59
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Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

 I appreciate that KK came back with some fire

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:59
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Dexanth
Dec 4, 2003

The last thing an ice cream cone ever sees

Mr. Humalong posted:

I didn’t read those essays the first time around and I’m sure as poo poo not reading them a second time, but good effort Leith.

this is a scummy post

however since you are going to escape D1 intact

##Vote Khris Kruel

The tone of those posts lately is 'haha you are wrong' in my read, and while town would be upset about false accusation town would also care more about nailing scum

KK leads more like angry YALL ARE SO DUMB

I believe that puts them at -2 also

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 02:59
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Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

 Also appreciate that diqsol is back and seems to be town

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:00
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Dexanth
Dec 4, 2003

The last thing an ice cream cone ever sees

xopods posted:

Hahaha, what? I have not waffled at all. I can't be 100% sure because it's impossible to be 100% sure of anyone's alignment on D1 of a game of Mafia, but I'm as confident in this as any D1 gut read I've ever made and I haven't wavered at all on that.

confirmed masons TRAP SPRUNG

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:00
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

 We have 24 hours of discussion and like 21 pages of scummy posts to go through. Why so quick to get day 1 over with?

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:00
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Dexanth
Dec 4, 2003

The last thing an ice cream cone ever sees
to be clear thats not a roleclaim of any kind here thats me saying xopods is wrong even if that post isnt really a case

more just its fun to be technically correct

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:00
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Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Dexanth posted:

confirmed masons TRAP SPRUNG

Clarify. You are confirmed masons with KK?

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:01
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

 and didn't even ask me to roleclaim...my my my, wouldn't want to give me a chance to roleclaim

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:01
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Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

Dexanth posted:

this is a scummy post

however since you are going to escape D1 intact

##Vote Khris Kruel

The tone of those posts lately is 'haha you are wrong' in my read, and while town would be upset about false accusation town would also care more about nailing scum

KK leads more like angry YALL ARE SO DUMB

I believe that puts them at -2 also

And playing the role of Bifauxnen this evening...

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:01
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Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.
Oh okay, I understand what you're saying.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:01
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Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Khris Kruel posted:

and didn't even ask me to roleclaim...my my my, wouldn't want to give me a chance to roleclaim

Hey, roleclaim? You are at -2.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:02
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Khris Kruel
Nov 5, 2003

Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

Amnistar posted:

Hey, roleclaim? You are at -2.

we have 24 hours, how about you slow your roll?

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:03
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Dexanth
Dec 4, 2003

The last thing an ice cream cone ever sees

Khris Kruel posted:

We have 24 hours of discussion and like 21 pages of scummy posts to go through. Why so quick to get day 1 over with?

Its not really 'so quick' this has been building for what the last day? also i feel you are scummiest player in game, so you know, I don't think anyone's being quick here

Amnistar posted:

Clarify. You are confirmed masons with KK?

see previous post but no it wasnt a roleclaim

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:03
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Leith Maclaine
Mar 2, 2018

Adventure comes from insufficient planning.

Mr. Humalong posted:

I didn’t read those essays the first time around and I’m sure as poo poo not reading them a second time, but good effort Leith.

I tried but ASAPRockySituation was insistent.

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:03
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# ? May 5, 2024 15:05
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xopods
Oct 26, 2010

Khris Kruel posted:

We have 24 hours of discussion and like 21 pages of scummy posts to go through. Why so quick to get day 1 over with?

Khris Kruel posted:

and didn't even ask me to roleclaim...my my my, wouldn't want to give me a chance to roleclaim

I... don't have the ability to control the pace with which other people vote you or don't?

You're at -2 and can claim now if you want. Or wait until someone puts you at -1. I would assume no one's going to drop a turbo hammer on you before you have a chance, and if they were to, they'll be asked to explain themselves tomorrow...

* # ? Apr 17, 2020 03:03
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