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bird. whats it like to be bird. what must that be like? bird wants to fly. bird wants to eat seeds, insect, small fish. bird wants to make calls in the morning to announce sexual hierarchy of bird. but pry keys off of keyboard? yes. this is also the wish of bird. bird dreams, beautiful dreams
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Apr 18, 2020 19:56
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In other news it seems that Goons griefed a guy so hard in Urbanddead that he hacked the Deviant art account of laserbot, aka the guy who made Tails got Trolled. All in and effort to get back at goons: 
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Apr 18, 2020 19:57
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Foul Ole Ron posted:In other news it seems that Goons griefed a guy so hard in Urbanddead that he hacked the Deviant art account of laserbot, aka the guy who made Tails got Trolled. That's pretty powerful griefing.
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Apr 18, 2020 20:00
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Arivia posted:If you're part of that contingent and you think arguing for sexual positivity and openness in queer spaces is "super gross poo poo" you have issues, whoever you are. Serious question Arivia: since you strongly feel that people are misrepresenting your posts in that thread and most people can't check to decide for themselves, have you tried messaging a couple mods or posting in QCS to ask if a mod or admin or two could review the exchange now that things have calmed down a bit, and reexamine the thread ban and general stigma its attached to you? I know "lol time to get judged by a tribunal of mods" sounds a bit absurd but at this point it can't be any dumber than arguing back and forth with people every time this incident gets mentioned.
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Apr 18, 2020 20:05
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Apr 18, 2020 20:06
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Brute Squad posted:Yeah, it was after a few of the posters tried to defend repeatedly calling the black mod "uppity". This is not at all what happened, but it's a convenient lie that's impossible to refute because that thread got disappeared¹ by Fluff after they spent two pages calling out his terrible moderating. One person accused Fluff of wanting to purge all the "uppity trans folk" (IIRC) from the forum, which doesn't seem like much of a reach considering he'd outright said earlier he had a list of trans posters he wanted to get rid of and was just waiting for an excuse. Fluff did the thing where he skims a post and then responds to a few keywords rather than what was actually said. Somehow this mutated into "a bunch of trans posters called Fluff uppity". This, along with Fluff's official policy of "you can't warn other trans posters about threats to them² and you can't post about transphobic things that happen on the forums because There Is No Transphobia On SA", prompted a bunch of trans posters to either move entirely to other subforums or ditch SA entirely. ¹ Not to be confused with the previous thread, which got disappeared by KM for being full of personal information. ² You know, the same lovely policy that got the fabgoons thread moved out from Bobbie W's modding. t-.-t posted:wait, what? I don't remember that happening at all. That's because it didn't! Pick posted:bird. whats it like to be bird. what must that be like? bird wants to fly. bird wants to eat seeds, insect, small fish. bird wants to make calls in the morning to announce sexual hierarchy of bird. but pry keys off of keyboard? yes. this is also the wish of bird. bird dreams, beautiful dreams That is an excellent bird. Look how happy! Look how satisfied! Thank you for bird. (Speaking of birds, PYF has a Birds thread and anyone who doesn't already have that bookmarked is missing out. I'm not sure if watching birds ride escalators or learning about the time a goon was adopted as a babysitter by a family of crows count as "sagas" per se but it's a nice antidote to the grim reality of nightmare hellyear 2020.)
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Apr 18, 2020 20:27
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Didn't Bobbie W get ridden out on a rail for enabling a child abuser?
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Apr 18, 2020 20:30
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Nuns with Guns posted:Serious question Arivia: since you strongly feel that people are misrepresenting your posts in that thread and most people can't check to decide for themselves, have you tried messaging a couple mods or posting in QCS to ask if a mod or admin or two could review the exchange now that things have calmed down a bit, and reexamine the thread ban and general stigma its attached to you? I know "lol time to get judged by a tribunal of mods" sounds a bit absurd but at this point it can't be any dumber than arguing back and forth with people every time this incident gets mentioned. I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm less concerned with my reputation more than how it illustrated the issues with the clique in that thread. Speaking of, the thread ban was actually lifted by Fluffdaddy when he revamped the thread, and I haven't had any issues since; it was very specifically and clearly that one group trying to treat the TGRS thread as "their safe space" and using Koalas March to back them up that didn't like me. The problem was that what I was discussing is a contentious but worthwhile issue to discuss in queer and trans communities; for example, Pick I know has an infraction on her rap sheet for arguing the other side of it (that queer spaces like pride events need to be less sexually open and more "family friendly".) This is why I brought it up specifically in what was the trans news and discussion thread at the time, to discuss with other trans posters in a trans space; instead the clique decided they didn't want to have a discussion at all and just shouted to shut it down. Issues like this can be misrepresented outside of queer spaces, which is simultaneously why I'm wary of getting mods to review it and what I think Koalas March got caught up in. If you're not familiar with the history of the issue or what people are talking about, if you just see the posters you're familiar with, a shitton of reports, and a single poster (me) who seems to be posting very objectionable poo poo (from a straight perspective) that the rest of the thread dislikes, then it's a slamdunk which side to go with. Koalas March was fairly open about how she was interacting with the clique off the forums on Discord or whatever (since this was about the time of DEEP UNDERCOVER NAZI MOD), and I don't think she had the background or the understanding to realize that she wasn't creating a safe space for most or all trans posters, just the ones she believed were acceptable or her friends. Getting another mod to look it over runs the risk of the same thing happening again, and I already served a month+ over it. How Wonderful! might be worth approaching about it, since she's trans, has the background, and was involved in the original discussion anyway, but I'm just inclined to let it lie. I'm more trying to inform people about how much of a mess the thread has been, and the direct pressure that lead to the trans contingent on SA fracturing so hard and so fast. Someone called it catladies turning on each other recently, and that's pretty correct. (PS: Koalas March not being trans is also why a bunch of the trans posters were skeptical of Fluffdaddy, who came into the thread really early and started trying to throw his weight around as an IK, making some really stupid posts that showed he had no understanding of trans communities. That also contributed to the trans posters being skeptical of him when he became mod, but to his credit he just laid down some ground rules for the thread so it couldn't be so cliquish and handed over day to day moderation to there wolf as thread IK, who is trans, and seems to be doing an okay job with it.) e: it's worth mentioning that I never actually broke the thread or forum rules as part of this; I brought up an issue to discuss civilly, got shouted down and told I was "making people uncomfortable" by the clique (again, treating a discussion thread as their personal safe space), then got repeatedly probated by Koalas March for asking her what the gently caress she was doing when she immediately took their side and acted to protect them. It really felt like their private Discord must have been all upset and I was being punished for that instead of anything actually in the thread. Arivia fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 20:30
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Apr 18, 2020 20:32
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Solice Kirsk posted:Didn't Bobbie W get ridden out on a rail for enabling a child abuser?
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Apr 18, 2020 20:36
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i like nice words
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ToxicFrog posted:This is not at all what happened, but it's a convenient lie that's impossible to refute because that thread got disappeared¹ by Fluff after they spent two pages calling out his terrible moderating. I think the "uppity" thing was misremembered/twisted from this exchange I mentioned before in a QCS thread on Fluffdaddy's modding, I'm linking to the specific point where he reacts to the word just as documentation that he verbalized that it bothered him: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3916617&pagenumber=10&perpage=40#post503176125 ToxicFrog posted:This, along with Fluff's official policy of "you can't warn other trans posters about threats to them² and you can't post about transphobic things that happen on the forums because There Is No Transphobia On SA", prompted a bunch of trans posters to either move entirely to other subforums or ditch SA entirely. This is pretty concerning though, like can you actually link to where Fluffdaddy or any of the other mods said this? Because that's pretty hosed up.
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Apr 18, 2020 20:43
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Apr 18, 2020 20:45
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Nuns with Guns posted:This is pretty concerning though, like can you actually link to where Fluffdaddy or any of the other mods said this? Because that's pretty hosed up. I'm pretty sure the "you can't discuss systemic transphobia on SA in here" pronouncement was in the old trans thread, so it's gone forever, sorry. You can however see Fluff arguing that systemic discrimination is impossible on SA over in QCS, which is kind of a continuation of that argument. (It also seems like it's flatly absurd since most mods, including IIRC Fluff, are quite open about how they consult with the mods of other subforums when making moderating decisions, and there's a huge overlap in users between subforums.) E: that said this is getting kind of QCS-y so we should probably take it to PMs or something if this discussion continues ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 20:58
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Fluffdaddy is also the least-receptive-to-feedback mod I've ever seen on this website, and if you peruse the leper's colony there are multiple chunks of probations from them against people posting legitimate grievances and issues with their moderation style. Also multiple of the most-active threads in that subforum were locked without warning, with very little justification beyond "this conversation is uninteresting to me" or "this discussion is not going in the direction I, as mod of this subforum, feels it should go in"
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Apr 18, 2020 21:06
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ToxicFrog posted:I'm pretty sure the "you can't discuss systemic transphobia on SA in here" pronouncement was in the old trans thread, so it's gone forever, sorry. You can however see Fluff arguing that systemic discrimination is impossible on SA over in QCS, which is kind of a continuation of that argument. (It also seems like it's flatly absurd since most mods, including IIRC Fluff, are quite open about how they consult with the mods of other subforums when making moderating decisions, and there's a huge overlap in users between subforums.) He also made it a probatable offense to ever question or criticize his moderating in TGRS and that it had to be taken to QCS... where he is now mod and will probate you for questioning or criticizing his moderating. 
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Apr 18, 2020 21:07
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*searches GIS* *scratches head* 
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Apr 18, 2020 21:07
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Who What Now posted:QCS... where he is now mod hahahahaha what the gently caress
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Apr 18, 2020 21:08
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ToxicFrog posted:I'm pretty sure the "you can't discuss systemic transphobia on SA in here" pronouncement was in the old trans thread, so it's gone forever, sorry. You can however see Fluff arguing that systemic discrimination is impossible on SA over in QCS, which is kind of a continuation of that argument. (It also seems like it's flatly absurd since most mods, including IIRC Fluff, are quite open about how they consult with the mods of other subforums when making moderating decisions, and there's a huge overlap in users between subforums.) Ah yeah, I'm seeing where he's reiterating that TGRS isn't the place to talk about wider SA issues. I don't agree with his point here: quote:You keep using the phrase “systematic” when talking about transphobia on the Something Awful forums. The forums are not a monolith nor are they run like one. Each moderator and admin has a vision of their particular forum and run it with the most basic of guidelines. As a whole, something awful is not an overarching community. There was a time when it was, but in 2020 that is definitely not the case. Every little section of the forum is insular, with posters going to whatever their interests are. Because yeah, I think there is a lot more overlap in forum users and mod communication than that implies, even if the mods of each subforum are given wide discretion in how they punish people. I wouldn't take it as him saying "it's impossible" but I think it does downplay a lot of the overarching problems here. I do also think that the exchange that started that thread, where one person went "Ugh FYAD made an offsite mock thread" and he said something like "I'm sure they'll let you post there if you asked." was really dumb and only served to upset everyone who was already side-eyeing him. I wouldn't call the original post a very good "warning" but reacting like that only made things worse for everyone. But you're right this is getting all QCS-y now and it's worth dropping it.
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Apr 18, 2020 21:11
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Nuns with Guns posted:
Well it's not like we can bring any of this up in QCS.
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Apr 18, 2020 21:12
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Who What Now posted:Well it's not like we can bring any of this up in QCS. 
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Apr 18, 2020 21:15
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Who What Now posted:Well it's not like we can bring any of this up in QCS. Honestly, I don't know if QCS really does much to help global modding issues ever, outside of unspeakably heinous stuff like what finally got Bobbie Wickham removed (after was it one or two prior threads about her?) Sometimes people have a good idea about small technical things but any time a mod says to take beefs with them to QCS it turns into at best a debate with 3-5 posters who maybe partially represent the views of the whole subforum, or at worst that plus a gallery of posters throwing peanuts at everyone else. Maybe the mod bots were supposed to suppress some of the comedy posting in between normal posts, but it looks like they've been retired for now.
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Apr 18, 2020 21:25
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I always liked the QCS threads where nothing was decided or changed and a mod/admin would come in and be like “I think we are done here ticket closed” those were so great.
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Apr 18, 2020 21:32
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oldpainless posted:I always liked the QCS threads where nothing was decided or changed and a mod/admin would come in and be like “I think we are done here ticket closed” those were so great. Its more like "Wow this has been really productive but im glad we came to a conclusion, TICKET CLOSED!"
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Apr 18, 2020 21:37
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Who What Now posted:Well it's not like we can bring any of this up in QCS. It's a better place than the "Something Awful's Greatest Sagas", you can at least try to post about it where it fits (there or TGRS) rather than doing it here where it definitely doesn't and BIRD has asked nicely to not do
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Apr 18, 2020 21:39
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Perhaps dropping a link to a qcs thread in here once in a while would increase traffic in said thrash's idk
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Apr 18, 2020 21:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WJz_7o3U5Q
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Apr 18, 2020 21:46
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Fluffdaddy will never handle any tickets related to TMR. Those will be handled by Athanatos and the admins. I have avoided stifling discussion in here as I am aware if a mod tries to change the conversation when another mod is the subject people get upset. But please God I am begging you, loving BEGGING you all to stop using this thread the way you've been using it recently. It was one of my favorite threads in the past; I got excited when I saw new posts. For the last week seeing a heap of new posts immediately pulls my mood down into unhappiness. The world sucks, my job sucks, life sucks, I want to loving die every day so please give me one days break, just one, so I am not crying in the bathroom while I try to swipe this post or another one like it on my phone every goddamn day. Please. Just go to QCS with this and let people who want to just HAVE FUN in one place in this loving reality HAVE FUN. Thank you for trying and thank you for the bird pics, Pick.
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Apr 18, 2020 22:31
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To move this thread to happier times because I feel very bad now and want to be helpful, could someone please explain to me why goons got really big into EVE Online?
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Apr 18, 2020 22:44
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A space game where the strongest weapon is an Excel spreadsheet seems handcrafted to make goons happy.
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Apr 18, 2020 22:46
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Sorry bird. Re:EVE I also imagine there was a snowball effect and after the first few shenanigans people kept joining for the fun.
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Apr 18, 2020 22:48
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MMO goons like anything that lets them get into very inventive griefing and political jockeying, and EVE not only offered that but the devs encouraged it and appreciated goon feedback to the point of implementing a lot of changes and improvements to the game based on it.
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Apr 18, 2020 22:51
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Didn't Goonfleet end up becoming extremely toxic? A few years ago I talked to a friend about how I was active in Something Awful and he said he didn't like the website because he didn't like the interactions with goons on EVE.
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Apr 18, 2020 22:53
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SunAndSpring posted:please explain to me why goons got really big into EVE Online? One of the biggest wins Goonfleet had was finding out that a bunch of little puddlejumper ships could swarm a fight, spam the scan function and lag the game to all gently caress, and (i think) kamikaze into the fuckers with their basically zero cost ships. It was so effective that players petitioned the developers and they were like "oh, we never thought to use it that way... but it's a valid tactic so we're not patching it out"
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Apr 18, 2020 22:56
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Didn't Goonfleet end up becoming extremely toxic? A few years ago I talked to a friend about how I was active in Something Awful and he said he didn't like the website because he didn't like the interactions with goons on EVE. I think so yes, but I think Goons also had a reputation in game where if you wronged them they would stop at nothing to destroy you and were effective at doing so which caused a whoooole lot of ill will towards them. As mentioned above they would also use unconventional tactics which pissed a lot of people off because they wouldn't fight "fair". Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 22:59
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Goonfleet basically controls everything in Eve and has for the last few years heavily. Before that they controlled a pretty major portion before becoming overextended and basically forcing literally the entire rest of the game to destroy their holdings and drive them out of the place they lived in. That was the era most people think of with goons and toxic behavior because there was some dumb poo poo done then that was pretty bad. Not counting how they have people that basically can control whole parts of the player economy or tend to slap whole death fleets on any alliance that starts gaining speed.
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Apr 18, 2020 23:01
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Telsa Cola posted:I think so yes, but I think a Goons also had a reputation in game where if you wronged them they would stop at nothing to destroy you and were effective at doing so which caused a whoooole lot of ill will towards them. That happened a lot in other places, too. Like the Urban Dead post up the page: Foul Ole Ron posted:In other news it seems that Goons griefed a guy so hard in Urbanddead that he hacked the Deviant art account of laserbot, aka the guy who made Tails got Trolled. Urban Dead was a zombie game grossly unbalanced in the favor of humans to the point there was no zombie threatening population, and it was effectively a dull RP about being trenchcoated cool dudes squatting behind barricades buffing their shotguns while some furries made out in the corner, until SA rolled in with some mega-sized zombie hordes and PVP characters. The human population was pushed so low that the dev who had mostly abandoned the game had to come back and tweak the numbers to make it easier to find guns and resurrection needles so that the human population didn't go extinct, iirc.
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Apr 18, 2020 23:05
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I'm sorry, Bird. To try to bring things somewhat back on track: there is, right now, a traveling kitty sixer thread, in the same tradition as traveling chickencheese. If you feel like your rap sheet doesn't have enough cats in it, you can post in it and get a six-hour probation with cat photo by one of the mods of whichever forum it's located in at the time. It doesn't look like it's taken off as much as chickencheese did, but presumably its activity will ebb and flow with the activity in the various forums as it moves around. It's also just a good thread to read for cat photos if you've exhausted the Cat Thread and the Cute Thread. SunAndSpring posted:To move this thread to happier times because I feel very bad now and want to be helpful, could someone please explain to me why goons got really big into EVE Online? Disclaimer: I was never a part of Goonfleet, although I did fly with a small goon-run corp for a while. So this is just my understanding based on playing EVE for a while and chatting with goons who were much more into it than I was. The thing about EVE is that the devs have a very hands-off approach to what they permit in game. Griefing is fine. Running scams and cons is fine -- hacking isn't but convincing someone else to give you all their money voluntarily in exchange for promises you have no intention of delivering on is a-ok. Attacking people in high-security space is "forbidden" in the sense that CONCORD, the robotic police, will kill you for it, but if you have enough firepower to shoot someone down before CONCORD finishes killing you and are willing to sacrifice your ship doing it, go for it. Infiltrating other corps under false pretences and stealing all their poo poo, manipulating the (almost entirely player-run) market, using the vast wealth from said market manipulation to put out contracts on anyone who threatens your dominance -- all fine. (And all things Goonfleet has done.) It's also a game where organization and cooperation is a huge force multiplier, and that's something that goons are usually pretty good at among themselves. So a well-organized corp composed of people who are all working together towards a common goal can punch well above its weight. And on top of that, Goonfleet developed at the time innovative strategies like "recruit loads of people and give all them basic equipment rather than making them earn it so even the rawest newbie can be a contributing member of the corp". Oh, and while it's a subscription game, you can buy subscription time with in-game money, so if you're good at making money in-game (by, say, running entry-level cons against an often surprisingly gullible playerbase), you can play for free or at least a steep discount. So, you have a game with unprecedented scope for loving everyone else's poo poo up, intentionally very little moderator oversight as long as whatever you're doing is technically allowed by the game mechanics, and lots of pubbies screaming about e-honor when their hugely expensive battleships are swarmed and destroyed by dozens upon dozens of ships that, collectively, cost less than 10% of what theirs did, all while you play for free. That's goon catnip right there.
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Apr 18, 2020 23:08
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At SA's peak, there were so many goons and they were so good that they dominated basically everything. One summer I was really into a very silly game called Puzzle Pirates, and there was a goon guild and it dominated. Goons were everywhere. And of course they destroyed and griefed their opponents, which didn't build goodwill
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Apr 18, 2020 23:10
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The best part is that in a game that encourages you to be a John Galt-ian libertarian ubermensch the most powerful group is more or less space Communists.
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Apr 18, 2020 23:10
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Also sometimes goons say things like 'what if we built 1400 kamikaze ships and threw them at the galactic trading hub and melted the economy' and they were so good at it, it's now an annual event. So that might be why people don't like them.
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Apr 18, 2020 23:33
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