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Anne Whateley posted:It's not just based on chances of survival, it is based on who "deserves to live more" -- for two patients otherwise the same, they prioritize one who has kids over one who doesn't. It's hosed up but it is an actual professional standard. The important thing to remember here is that these are down to the wire decisions born from desperate situations. When you have literally minutes to decide who out of two or more patients gets the scarce but potentially life-saving treatment, any justification will do; if only to assuage the unconscionable responsibility of deciding who gets to probably live and who will most assuredly die.
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Apr 19, 2020 16:20
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(via Trickybusiness, condensed)quote:Recently, my grand daughter, age 16, tried to kill herself. When ES called us and told us, we tried to call her. They told us we couldn’t speak to her. It wasn’t a good idea. We tried to send flowers. We were told we couldn’t. Hospital policy. Yet, my SIL was allowed all that.
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Apr 19, 2020 17:57
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:The important thing to remember here is that these are down to the wire decisions born from desperate situations. There are entire academic courses based around how to do triage properly. There are specific procedures, especially in a trauma or pandemic situation. Lots of medical ethics are tied up in it, and it’s fascinating/brutal. But there is a consistent through line, mostly based around quick judgement calls and sorting patients into categories based on what resources are available.
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Apr 19, 2020 18:57
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:There are entire academic courses based around how to do triage properly. There are specific procedures, especially in a trauma or pandemic situation. Lots of medical ethics are tied up in it, and it’s fascinating/brutal. But there is a consistent through line, mostly based around quick judgement calls and sorting patients into categories based on what resources are available. Triage is also a very, very old idea. There was an ancient Egyptian papyrus which when translated turned out to be a manual for treatment of spinal trauma (implicitly either for battlefield wounds or construction injuries, it's guessed) which has similar principles, and it's over 2000 years old.
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Apr 19, 2020 19:12
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Triage is also a very, very old idea. There was an ancient Egyptian papyrus which when translated turned out to be a manual for treatment of spinal trauma (implicitly either for battlefield wounds or construction injuries, it's guessed) which has similar principles, and it's over 2000 years old. yeah that one is cool, it sorts them into three categories -Diseases I will treat -Diseases I will not treat -Disease I will contend with 
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Apr 19, 2020 20:31
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Oh, we got another one. All one paragraph but I broke it up for readability. quote:Well I made that phone call to my ES and left him a message. He returned my call and I told him I needed to see him. I had something to tell him and that there were questions I needed to ask him and only he had the answers. He kept asking if his dad was alright. I said yes, he was fine. the urge to rewrite this stuff is irresistible. quote:Well I made that phone call to my ES and left him a message. He called me back worried that his father was in trouble; I didn't want to tell him that his father was fine. He said he would stop by after work, then thought better of it and insisted that I tell him over the phone. I told him that I'd had lung cancer and two surgeries and yelled at him for not coming to see me to learn something non-urgent that I could ahve told him on the phone.
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Apr 19, 2020 22:51
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drat I wish you could re-write them all because I really really struggle to comprehend most of them.
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Apr 19, 2020 23:51
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this line in particular is infuriating quote:There is not enough space to write all the questions I asked him which he had no defense for and any explanation he gave held no water and was utter nonsense. You got an explanation! You just didn't like it!
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Apr 19, 2020 23:52
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I like that the estranged son is working two jobs but these shitheads still think it's cool to take five loving hours of his time arguing and putting him on the defensive. It's not his fault they don't have a relationship. Also their shock that their daughter-in-law is not kissing their rear end after treating their son/her husband like poo poo for his entire life.
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Apr 20, 2020 02:09
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trickybiscuits posted:Lately, I’ve been dismissed verbally with “Okay, Boomer" hmmm, if this causes her stress has she tried not being a boomer
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Apr 20, 2020 06:22
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Don't forget "my son was concerned about his father. So I yelled at him and guilted him into coming to visit, where I proceeded to interrogate him for hours, and shame his wife for being concerned/trying to contact her husband. I am in the right here."
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Apr 20, 2020 09:19
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The vitriol towards in-laws (especially daughter and son) is particularly funny to me because, of all familial relationships, they have the most right to peace the gently caress out.
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Apr 20, 2020 12:54
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Pope Corky the IX posted:The vitriol towards in-laws (especially daughter and son) is particularly funny to me because, of all familial relationships, they have the most right to peace the gently caress out. I think a lot of that vitriol is based on the fact that a son in law or daughter in law loosens their grip on their child. I feel like a lot of these stories where they bitch about their kid's spouse can boil down to "ever since our little Steven got married to that awful harpy of a woman, he doesn't let us steamroll and belittle him anymore!"
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Apr 20, 2020 14:47
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Was the whole thing about horrible in-laws one big boomer trend? It seems like the more common trend with millennials is 'My in-laws are better than my actual parents' if anything.
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Apr 20, 2020 16:38
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Was the whole thing about horrible in-laws one big boomer trend? It seems like the more common trend with millennials is 'My in-laws are better than my actual parents' if anything. Yes, but that means that their partner has horrible in-laws.
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Apr 20, 2020 16:41
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LadyPictureShow posted:I think a lot of that vitriol is based on the fact that a son in law or daughter in law loosens their grip on their child. I feel like a lot of these stories where they bitch about their kid's spouse can boil down to "ever since our little Steven got married to that awful harpy of a woman, he doesn't let us steamroll and belittle him anymore!" Oh, I totally get that. What I find funny is something like that woman losing her poo poo over the daughter-in-law choosing not to have a relationship with her. She doesn't owe her mother-in-law a goddamn thing unless there was some sort of financial or legal situation that had occurred.
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Apr 20, 2020 18:07
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Oh, I totally get that. What I find funny is something like that woman losing her poo poo over the daughter-in-law choosing not to have a relationship with her. She doesn't owe her mother-in-law a goddamn thing unless there was some sort of financial or legal situation that had occurred. There's quite a few posts in the relationships thread of women losing their minds because their DILs didn't want them in the delivery room. These people have huge amounts of entitlement
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Apr 20, 2020 18:29
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Shirec posted:There's quite a few posts in the relationships thread of women losing their minds because their DILs didn't want them in the delivery room. These people have huge amounts of entitlement The correct response to a mother-in-law insisting on being in the delivery room is the daughter-in-law demanding to be in the room for her next pap smear.
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Apr 20, 2020 18:39
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Pope Corky the IX posted:The correct response to a mother-in-law insisting on being in the delivery room is the daughter-in-law demanding to be in the room for her next pap smear. This is definitely a trap - you don’t make an offer like that to a woman who doesn’t understand boundaries. She will probably take you up on it!
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Apr 20, 2020 18:55
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Um. "You WILL come with me to the pick-your-own place and you WILL have fun." I remember our father motivating us for family photos "SMILE dammit or I'll whoop yer asses"
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Apr 20, 2020 23:24
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trickybiscuits posted:It's been quiet on the estranged parent forums but then this showed up Wow if even half those accusations are true... I wonder why everyone is constantly telling you to get counseling. Must be their fault
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Apr 21, 2020 01:47
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Play posted:
quote:We had nothing to do with this attempt. How could we? We haven’t been allowed to see her for a long time and she’s been mad at us for longer–for reasons no one would state, not even when questioned. Also it's super gross that these full grown has lots of life experience adults are trying to argue semantics of why a 16 year old child tried to kill herself. Like, this is not the time for you to try and win an argument, or even a little bit about your feelings. It's a hosed up layer cake of selfishness
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Apr 21, 2020 01:54
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Shirec posted:Also it's super gross that these full grown has lots of life experience adults are trying to argue semantics of why a 16 year old child tried to kill herself. Like, this is not the time for you to try and win an argument, or even a little bit about your feelings. It's a hosed up layer cake of selfishness seems like the kid herself brought it up specifically, blaming them and yeah that would hurt no matter who you are but going all emotional lawyer on them, come on
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Apr 21, 2020 01:57
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This thread has been cathartic. I'm still working my way through it. Years ago, my parents found out that my grandfather had been sexually abusing my sister. My sister has special needs, and was underaged at the time. My parents immediately went to the police, and notified the immediate family. I have a lot of issues with my parents, but I very much respect the way they handled this. This was my first experience with cutting someone out of my life. The case went through the legal system, and the abusive grandfather ended up receiving a sentence of 1,000 hours of community service. I was present at the sentencing. The judge was considering 500 hours, but doubled it due to the grandfather's complete lack of remorse. I remember seeing my grandfather laughing with his lawyer in the hallway. I'm proud of my sister, who read a victim statement to the judge. She wrote the statement entirely by herself. I had a lot of trouble making sense of what happened. I have bi-polar 2, and this incident was a huge trigger. I don't want to turn this into an e/n thread, so I'll focus on my thoughts about what happened. Our society reinforces the idea that there are good people and bad people in this world. It's in politics, media, religion, and many other aspects of our life. You go to heaven or hell, you're on the right side or wrong side of an issue, you're the good guy or bad guy. This black and white way of thinking did me a huge disservice. Up till that point, I thought my grandfather was good, but I was thrown through a loop when I heard about the abuse. It was very hard to process. The only way I could make sense of it was to consider that everyone is capable of good and bad things, and we only see bits and pieces of those good or bad things throughout life. This man designed and oversaw the building of a church, and volunteered extensively. I'm not religious, but I respect that part of him. However, no amount of good deeds will undo the unforgivable things he did. I knew about those unforgivable things, but a lot of people did not know about that. I'm sure that he's considered a good person by many people. In order to protect my sister's privacy, my parents only told our immediate family, and my aunt and uncle's family. Because he did not receive a prison sentence, my grandfather continued life as usual. Most of the extended family did not know what happened. They only saw my mother shunning her own father. She caught flak for that. He kept going to family get-togethers, while we stayed home. The family members who knew what happened supported us, and I appreciate that quite a lot. This incident completely changed the way I viewed other people and social interactions as a whole. Well-meaning people can cause immense harm by trying to force reconciliation. People are complicated, and they are both good and bad. Often, we only see the good or the bad, so we categorize them as good or bad. From then on, confirmation bias sets in. We keep looking for that good, or that bad. I think this makes it very difficult for people to empathize when someone cuts another person out of their life. All they see is a "good" person being shunned for no reason. As far as I can tell, my sister has healed quite a bit from that trauma. She has a good therapist. Of course, there's no shortage of hosed up things that can affect a person with special needs. She's working her way through other issues right now. Currently, I facilitate support groups and teach classes for people with mental health diagnoses. A lot of our attendees are baby boomers who have been rejected by their children. So far, I don't think I've ever seen a rejected parent who takes responsibility for their estrangement. That's a topic for another post, though.
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Apr 21, 2020 01:57
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Play posted:seems like the kid herself brought it up specifically, blaming them and yeah that would hurt no matter who you are but going all emotional lawyer on them, come on I read these posts with a grain of salt that they are being truthful about recounting events. They very much tend to twist it. Also I _do_ still think there is a time and a place and you can for sure be shocked and upset, but I still find the framing gross. Uganda Loves Me posted:This thread has been cathartic. I'm still working my way through it. I'm sorry you and your family went through that, and I'm glad that your sister (and you) have been able to heal and process this and your parents did their best to keep you safe.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:06
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Uganda Loves Me posted:This thread has been cathartic. I'm still working my way through it.. I'm glad you're at a place you can share this comfortably and that your sister and you are making strides. You're a very talented writer
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Apr 21, 2020 02:12
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quote:We had nothing to do with this attempt. Wait. what? (I'm assuming this is referring to a suicide attempt)
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Apr 21, 2020 02:42
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Thanks, both of you! I was stressed about sharing this on a forum, but I'm glad I did now.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:43
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Shirec posted:Also it's super gross that these full grown has lots of life experience adults are trying to argue semantics of why a 16 year old child tried to kill herself. Like, this is not the time for you to try and win an argument, or even a little bit about your feelings. It's a hosed up layer cake of selfishness A friend of mine had a son who committed suicide. He had no contact with any of his children after his son, the eldest, turned 6 or so, as per his ex wife’s wishes. At the visitation, his ex wife screamed at my friend that he was the one responsible for their son’s death, and afterward sent many emails and texts saying the same thing. That was 5 years ago now, and it still hurts him. I don’t really know anything about his history with his wife or kids, but even if he was a terrible partner and father, that’s some vicious poo poo to hear when you haven’t even seen your kid in over a decade. I hope it made her feel better, because it made my friend suicidal. I’d hate for all of that pain to amount to nothing.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:39
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I will defer to y'all that it can be a really hurtful thing to have happen and really gently caress up a person to have that accusation thrown at them. as apologies for derailing, a post quote:I’ve basically been a closet hermit I think much of my life. An only child, I’ve been used to my own company. However, I do need socialization but on my terms now. For years my socialization was based on what was expected of me as a wife and mother. Now, I’m a wife but I’ve retired as a mother. I only have the energy to take care of me, my husband and my dogs now at my age. I sincerely care about my family but they were taught early on to be able to look after themselves. It caught my eye because I'm trying to puzzle out if she made her kids like enact their own supervision hierarchy in cleaning Shirec fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 03:45
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Shirec posted:I will defer to y'all that it can be a really hurtful thing to have happen and really gently caress up a person to have that accusation thrown at them. "Mommy's decided she's done being a mommy. Here's a copy of Lord of the Flies and a broom handle. You guys figure it out."
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Apr 21, 2020 04:15
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quote:I sincerely care about my family but they were taught early on to be able to look after themselves. Translation: mom checked out early on. I love all these stories about what great parents they are that detail all the poo poo they did wrong. Kids were probably cleaning the entire house, and her little ranking system probably kept them from forming good relationships with each other. And now, apparently her husband's feelings are too much to deal with, so she spends hours hanging out in public places. Good job, boomer.
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Apr 21, 2020 04:29
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I think isolation is starting to get to these people. quote:I have decided it’s been easier being a long time rejected parent during this isolation time. I am already used to not seeing family or hearing from them, the not seeing is the hard part for those not rejected parents. I have friends crying nightly because they can’t see their grands because of this isolation they don’t know when they will again. quote:I have a friend that lives on her mothers property and takes care of her, her 3 sisters will not even stop to visit “because of this isolation” just an added excuse for really not doing much any other day. quote:My sisters ,completely disapproves of our EDs behaviour towards myself and her father . One sister “. wants to talk to her , but she won’t”. Another sister says ” she’s sick”. . Another sister ” it’s just so said”. They all moan amongst each other , and theses comments were said once I front of me. We are all a close knit family. Cousins, nieces, aunts, uncles. We all have something so rare but wonderful. There’s a closeness where aunties are almost parents to their nieces and nephews . This is why I’m comp,Evelyn baffles as to why no one will step up and have a long talk to my daughter and her husband. They were Completely outraged when they estranged from SILs mother and brother for 9 years and even more so that they are doing it to us. . But yet no one steps forward. To make things worse. , I read a post on FB my Sister placed and there was a comment from my daughter. Planning another Family Reunion. The last one 40 of us went to a Resort in the CRribean. We were on speaking terms but barely . Tbey refused to sit and eat with us, it was embarrassing, uncomfortable and painful as I knew through the corner of everyone’s eyes, we were watched . Everyone was laughing having a great time. The last day my daughter made sone accusations against her father, all but caused a scene but I walked away. My husband was trying to sort something out with reception who broke their word . My husband a quiet man never rose his voice , but our daughter did when she got angry at her father for pushing back at a waitress at a broken promise. It was none of her business. She created more of a scene than her father. The whole week cost a lot of money , and because of the situation , i didn’t come home happy and contented. My memories of that time are painful to me. Now my sister is talking about another reunion and my ED i had invited herself with my sisters blessings. Have my sisters no idea how awkward and painful this is to us? To watch our Daughter cozy up to them , laughing, full of sweetness. And completely freeze us out. I can’t put myself through this again but I know they won’t take no for an answer. I really don’t know what to do . .if I don’t go , everyone will b let down. If I go , it will be excruciating for me.
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Apr 21, 2020 04:56
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A lot about people makes sense when you realise a shitload of people got married and had kids not because they wanted to but because that was what they were expected to do.
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Apr 21, 2020 04:59
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My parents were forced to get married after my mom got pregnant via her weed dealer on purpose at 17 along with a couple of her friends who wanted their kids to grow up together just like they did, but my mom's parents were Catholic and refused to have a daughter give birth out of wedlock and could use the fact my dad was a drug dealer to minors as collatoral to force him to marry her. My childhood was really not good as a result. They stayed together in a brutally abusive relationship for 8 years until he tried to stab her one night and only didn't because I came out of my bedroom because of the yelling and smashing and screaming and he didn't want to kill anyone in front of a kid. Happy Tuesday everybody! My insomnia is bad these days.
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Apr 21, 2020 10:53
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Picnic Princess posted:My parents were forced to get married after my mom got pregnant via her weed dealer on purpose at 17 along with a couple of her friends who wanted their kids to grow up together just like they did, but my mom's parents were Catholic and refused to have a daughter give birth out of wedlock and could use the fact my dad was a drug dealer to minors as collatoral to force him to marry her. My childhood was really not good as a result. They stayed together in a brutally abusive relationship for 8 years until he tried to stab her one night and only didn't because I came out of my bedroom because of the yelling and smashing and screaming and he didn't want to kill anyone in front of a kid. 
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Apr 21, 2020 16:00
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Look, the important thing is your grandparents' reputation wasn't ruined.
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Apr 21, 2020 20:09
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Picnic Princess posted:my mom got pregnant via her weed dealer on purpose at 17 along with a couple of her friends
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Apr 21, 2020 20:21
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Splicer posted:There's ambiguity here that I both need and fear being cleared up What ambiguity? Dumb teens thought it would be a good idea to become mothers at the same time so they can raise their kids together. Their mom's lovely parents forced her to marry the lovely person she chose as sperm donor cause WhAt WiLl PeOpLe ThInK and ended with them almost witnessing their mom getting murdered.
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Apr 21, 2020 20:44
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El Padrino posted:What ambiguity? Dumb teens thought it would be a good idea to become mothers at the same time so they can raise their kids together. Their mom's lovely parents forced her to marry the lovely person she chose as sperm donor cause WhAt WiLl PeOpLe ThInK and ended with them almost witnessing their mom getting murdered.
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Apr 21, 2020 20:57
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