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Somfin posted:The bases of the parties draw from somewhat different groups of neoliberals, for sure Oh my loving God this isn't true at all. Stop using neoliberal if you don't know what the gently caress it actually means. The Republican base aren't neoliberals. They're hate-filled psychotic racists who don't give a poo poo about economics or anything else beyond whether the people they hate suffer. It is imperative they be driven from power or they'll continue to destroy the country's future (such as it is), even if that means siding, temporarily, with the hated Democrat succlanyards or whatever the stupid cool kids club calls them. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 21:58
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GUYBRUSH THREEPWOOD NO!
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Apr 29, 2020 22:06
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Oh my loving God this isn't true at all. Stop using neoliberal if you don't know what the gently caress it actually means. I don't have many moral lines in the sand but one of them is "don't help rapists" and Joe Biden is on the far side of that line for me. There's still six months- the Democrats can still pick someone else. If you think being a neoliberal requires actually knowing what neoliberalism is, or that it's a conscious choice and America offers any other options, or that it's somehow incompatible with being a hate-filled psychotic racist, or that the Democrats don't have their own wing of hate-filled psychotic racists, I've got some real bad news about America from the perspective of the rest of the world.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:19
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Somfin posted:I don't have many moral lines in the sand but one of them is "don't help rapists" and Joe Biden is on the far side of that line for me. I am not talking about Biden. I didn't vote for Biden. I don't like Biden. I explained this already. Stop deliberately avoiding my point, which is that Bors has lovely  tendencies to attack his own side far more viciously than he attacks the right because he is, in the end, a dumb and smug man like Ted Rall.Responding to "GOP delenda est" with "B-but Democrats are bad because X" is not going to help anything even if its true. The Bolsheviks didn't win the Revolution by purging the left and center before the Tsar. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 22:23
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it's almost like the democrats spending the past 12 years conceding every political principle they claim to stand on has caused people to stop buying into the idea that supporting establishment democrats will accomplish anything
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Apr 29, 2020 22:31
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PowerBeard posted:Ramirez ruining an average at best Where's Waldo / Wally by highlighting the answer.... Waldo is circled on the cover of the books that Ramirez pulled up as a reference.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:31
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:The Bolsheviks didn't win the Revolution by purging the left and center before the Tsar. And the leftists didn't win the Revolution in Germany at all because they let a centrist shithead like Friedrich Ebert take over.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:33
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Pleasant Friend posted:And the leftists didn't win the Revolution in Germany at all because they let a centrist shithead like Friedrich Ebert take over. Then a decade later the German communists refused to take common cause with liberals (on orders from the Soviet Union, no less) against the literal Nazis and guess what happened. We can go around and around about past events, which is an excellent way to piss away chances to change the future. Cowcaster posted:it's almost like the democrats spending the past 12 years conceding every political principle they claim to stand on has caused people to stop buying into the idea that supporting establishment democrats will accomplish anything This is a gross oversimplification but I doubt anything I can say will change anyone's mind. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 22:33
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The gross oversimplification is reflective of the thought process.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:35
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:I am not talking about Biden. I didn't vote for Biden. I don't like Biden. I explained this already. Stop deliberately avoiding my point, which is that Bors has lovely So pointing out that Biden is a rapist is unacceptable under any circumstances, got it
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Apr 29, 2020 22:39
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Then a decade later the German communists refused to take common cause with liberals (on orders from the Soviet Union, no less) against the literal Nazis and guess what happened. We can go around and around about past events, which is an excellent way to piss away chances to change the future. Why would Communists join forces with the party that literally created death squads to round up and kill them?
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Apr 29, 2020 22:40
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Lemming posted:So pointing out that Biden is a rapist is unacceptable under any circumstances, got it "I am not talking about Biden." "You're talking about Biden!"
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Apr 29, 2020 22:41
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:I am not talking about Biden. I didn't vote for Biden. I don't like Biden. I explained this already. Stop deliberately avoiding my point, which is that Bors has lovely This is literally the comic that sparked this discussion. There is no other interpretation of your attack on Bors, here. You're upset that he's pointing out that Biden is a rapist and the Democrats defending him are hypocrites.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:43
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Lemming posted:This is literally the comic that sparked this discussion. There is no other interpretation of your attack on Bors, here. You're upset that he's pointing out that Biden is a rapist and the Democrats defending him are hypocrites. I'm on the record as finding Bors obnoxious about attacking his own side instead of the right many times. This is just the first time someone edited his cartoons in a way I agree with. The relation to Biden is unfortunate coincidence.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:48
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:I'm on the record as finding Bors obnoxious about attacking his own side instead of the right many times. This is just the first time someone edited his cartoons in a way I agree with. The relation to Biden is unfortunate coincidence. It's not a coincidence. It's literally the comic that started the discussion. You saw the comic and responded with frustration. This is just cause and effect.
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Apr 29, 2020 22:49
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like so if we take you at your word that you hate joe biden with the rest of us what's the end game here vincent van goatse? that we all nod and say "yes, joe biden sucks, but meanwhile matt bors saying joe biden sucks is divisive and hurts the party"?
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Apr 29, 2020 22:59
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Joe Biden sucks and Bors is a disingenuous hack who's rapidly becoming Ted Rall 2.0. The end. No moral.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:01
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:I am not talking about Biden. I didn't vote for Biden. I don't like Biden. I explained this already. Stop deliberately avoiding my point, which is that Bors has lovely Well the pragmatic center in this analogy would be supporters of a constitutional monarchy under Grand Duke Michael, so actually yuh they did reject that
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Apr 29, 2020 23:06
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Joe Biden sucks and Bors is a disingenuous hack who's rapidly becoming Ted Rall 2.0. The end. No moral. What is your specific problem with that cartoon that prompted you to spew this garbage take
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Apr 29, 2020 23:07
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Joe Biden sucks and Bors is a disingenuous hack who's rapidly becoming Ted Rall 2.0. The end. No moral. Disingenuous because... he's pointing out that Biden is a rapist and that the hardcore Dem response to that has so far been "hey let's just run the Republican playbook" rather than dumping his creepy rear end for someone who hasn't committed rape?
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Apr 29, 2020 23:07
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Vincent's able to maintain a mental distinction between Biden and Trump, as well as between Democrats and Republicans, as well as between neoliberals and conservatives. Attacks that rabidly attempt to conflate all participation in political systems as moral compromise are self-defeating narcissism- which is the point of the prior Bors cartoon. The world is more than an undifferentiated swarm of child-killing rapist neolibfashcons arrayed against your pristine personal mental politic. If you're not actually responding to the content of: Vincent Van Goatse posted:I didn't like that edit because of Biden. I haven't ever voted for Biden and I live in California which means I can safely not vote for him if I so choose this November and it will have no effect on anything. I like that edit because I'm utterly sick of the bullshit equivalence game some people here do where somehow not being a cool kid and saying the Democrats are the same as the Republicans means I'm a "vote blue no matter who" dumbass succdem or whatever. If you need to make it about Biden or rape, then you're not responding to Vincent- you're the privileged contrarian in the well.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:09
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Lemming posted:What is your specific problem with that cartoon that prompted you to spew this garbage take It's not this particular cartoon it's his whole body of worse since he decided all he'd ever draw is his stupid Mad Max world bullshit. His one refrain is that the Democrats en bloc are incompetent worthless ninnies who don't deserve support. I'm just loving sick of it, I think it enables literal fascists like Trump and Stephen Miller by encouraging non-participation in the elections at every level and not just the Presidential one, and have been saying so for the last year or so.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:09
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:It's not this particular cartoon it's his whole body of worse since he decided all he'd ever draw is his stupid Mad Max world bullshit. His one refrain is that the Democrats en bloc are incompetent worthless ninnies who don't deserve support. I'm just loving sick of it and have been saying so for the last year or so. "I love my dog, look at how cute he is!" "God I loving hate dogs, they're all disgusting. Eugh. Jesus, they sicken me." "What the hell, what's wrong with my dog?" "Oh nothing your dog is lovely, what I was saying has nothing to do with your dog. It's just coincidental. I don't think your dog is a nasty little rat at all."
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Apr 29, 2020 23:10
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Lemming posted:"I love my dog, look at how cute he is!" If this is what you choose to get from what I'm saying there's nothing I can do to explain my position to you in a way you'll understand. Somfin posted:Disingenuous because... he's pointing out that Biden is a rapist and that the hardcore Dem response to that has so far been "hey let's just run the Republican playbook" rather than dumping his creepy rear end for someone who hasn't committed rape? Because to declare the result of the primary election null and void this way has a massive potential electoral downside. If the DNC were to say "Biden got the most votes and delegates but we're gonna choose someone else instead" they've just disenfranchised their voting base. Whether or not it's morally right to do so it would be electoral suicide. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 23:12
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Discendo Vox posted:Vincent's able to maintain a mental distinction between Biden and Trump, as well as between Democrats and Republicans, as well as between neoliberals and conservatives. Attacks that rabidly attempt to conflate all participation in political systems as moral compromise are self-defeating narcissism- which is the point of the prior Bors cartoon. Did you people all spontaneously forget this entire conversation was launched from a specific, particular cartoon, of which Biden and hypocritical Democrats specifically were being criticized in a concrete manner on a topic they are empirically being massively hypocritical over, in an eminently reasonable and straightforward way
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Apr 29, 2020 23:13
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:It's not this particular cartoon it's his whole body of worse since he decided all he'd ever draw is his stupid Mad Max world bullshit. His one refrain is that the Democrats en bloc are incompetent worthless ninnies who don't deserve support. I don't think he has ever said that, in fact he approves of Democratic politicians plenty of times when they're not being poo poo https://twitter.com/mattbors/status/1148993427507277824 E: in fact he's come out saying that internal lib/left squabbling is only helping Republicans be evil 
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Apr 29, 2020 23:15
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That's a cartoon that clearly attacks the Democrats as a whole. It's like a degree away from calling AOC "one of the good Dems".
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Apr 29, 2020 23:17
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:
Arent they doing that to the states and delegates that Bernie won?
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Apr 29, 2020 23:17
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Uncle Wemus posted:Arent they doing that to the states and delegates that Bernie won? Colorado did, I don't know about others, and it's tremendously stupid and bad. Now imagine if they did that on a national level to all 40ish states Biden will have won in by convention time.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:18
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Because to declare the result of the primary election null and void this way has a massive potential electoral downside. If the DNC were to say "Biden got the most votes and delegates but we're gonna choose someone else instead" they've just disenfranchised their voting base. Whether or not it's morally right to do so it would be electoral suicide. Picking Biden already disenfranchised a vast swath of their voter base. Including you. That happened, they picked him, they ignored all the existing results, told all of the other contenders apart from Bernie and Warren (because she might siphon votes off of Bernie) to bail, and picked him. And then they told their base to go loving kill themselves in order to vote for their chosen candidate. And they're going ahead and disenfranchising all of goddamn New York from being able to vote for any president at all but not cancelling the primaries there. I'm genuinely sorry that you can't see this. Vincent Van Goatse posted:That's a cartoon that clearly attacks the Democrats as a whole. It's like a degree away from calling AOC "one of the good Dems". Yeah, it does, on the specific issue of the Democrats running the Republican playbook against a rape victim, because holy poo poo the Democrats as a whole are actually running the Republican playbook against a rape victim can you not see this
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Apr 29, 2020 23:19
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No, you want it to be about that, like the contrarian wants the protester's statement to be refuted because they exhale carbon. You attacked Vincent for the phrase "Thanks for this. Really.", and since then have ignored several posts where he lays out his position, repeatedly, in detail. Respond to what they're actually saying, not the projection of your fears and insecurities.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:20
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Somfin posted:Picking Biden already disenfranchised a vast swath of their voter base. Including you. That happened, they picked him, "They", in this case, being the Democratic voter base, not the DNC leadership. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Apr 29, 2020 |
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Apr 29, 2020 23:20
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Somfin posted:Yeah, it does, on the specific issue of the Democrats running the Republican playbook against a rape victim, because holy poo poo the Democrats as a whole are actually running the Republican playbook against a rape victim can you not see this How can a cartoon drawn about AOC's election in 2018/2019, which is what VitalSigns posted and which I was talking about, have any relation with the allegations against Biden (or indeed Biden being guilty) happening in 2020? Time and space don't work that way.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:22
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It seems like the whole problem with Bors' cartoon this week is he said a true thing about evidence corroborating claims of sexual assault by a Democrat, and saying true things is beyond the pale of civil discourseVincent Van Goatse posted:That's a cartoon that clearly attacks the Democrats as a whole. It's like a degree away from calling AOC "one of the good Dems". no it isn't and no it isn't
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Apr 29, 2020 23:22
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Discendo Vox posted:No, you want it to be about that, like the contrarian wants the protester's statement to be refuted because they exhale carbon. You attacked Vincent for the phrase "Thanks for this. Really.", and since then have ignored several posts where he lays out his position, repeatedly, in detail. Respond to what they're actually saying, not the projection of your fears and insecurities. I dunno what to tell you man, the thing he was thanking the other guy for was posted in a quote response to the cartoon we've all been talking about. There's been a lot of obvious backpedaling but it's not really gonna work.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:24
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 Ben Garrison posted:Justice for General Flynn
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Apr 29, 2020 23:24
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Lemming posted:I dunno what to tell you man, the thing he was thanking the other guy for was posted in a quote response to the cartoon we've all been talking about. There's been a lot of obvious backpedaling but it's not really gonna work. It's not backpedaling! It's the actual position! Everyone is not your secret posting enemy! You do not need to check every person at the environment march for plastic bottles!
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Apr 29, 2020 23:26
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God I hope we get a vaccine for coronavirus and Trump pushes it hard. For all the normal, sane reasons. But also low-key for the crazy reason that I wanna see Ben Garrison react to Trump trying to vaccinate him
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Apr 29, 2020 23:29
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VitalSigns posted:God I hope we get a vaccine for coronavirus and Trump pushes it hard. I think the entire thread can agree with this. I know I do.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:30
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E: Not gonna prolong this, points have been made at this pointVincent Van Goatse posted:I think the entire thread can agree with this. I know I do. God this is gonna be so loving amazing. I wonder if there's gonna be coronavirus bugchasers once the vaccine comes out?
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Apr 29, 2020 23:34
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