|
bloom posted:It'll be a dream scene and we'll spend multiple pages arguing if it was tel'aran'rhiod It wouldn't be WoT if that argument didn't span like entire modes of Internet discussion across decades.
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 01:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 15:17 |
|
|
Invalid Validation posted:Well yea but it’s still more than just kill him till he dies. Least she had ambitions other than be the chosen one. Then stub a toe and get balefired out of existence. It's really amusing that only Ishamael ever really understood what the Dark one was, or what being Forsaken was actually about. quote:Given her level of emotional maturity, and how genuinely terrified of him she was when he tapped into the bigass sa'angreal, not to mention that she maybe-probably compelled that innkeeper into going "yo dude go bangapologise to your wife" and he still didn't, I could absolutely see her storming off in a huff. And that's assuming she didn't have evil business to be about. Lanfear peaced out because it became increasingly obvious to her that she couldn't reliably pass as a Cairhienan noblewoman to anyone who was actually Cairhienan, and there were limits to how many people she could compel without attracting attention. There's some indications that she may have either turned invisible or followed him around in TAR, because Rand remarks to himself multiple times that he can almost smell her perfume when he's farting around his rooms in the city. Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Apr 22, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 02:49
|
|
|
It's just awfully convenient that she goes "yo go bang your wife". You're right, maybe not direct evidence, but since she vanishes the next morning when he doesn't stick his head in, it's at least ambiguous imo
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 03:25
|
|
|
Thinking about all the Lanfear chat, if she'd waited until he was a loony then tried her whole 'yo we can kill the Dark One together,' it may have actually worked. Maybe. I dunno.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 03:26
|
|
|
Could she not have just compelled him?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 03:37
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Thinking about all the Lanfear chat, if she'd waited until he was a loony then tried her whole 'yo we can kill the Dark One together,' it may have actually worked. Maybe. I dunno. Probably not. By the time he was really starting to lose it, he was also hearing Lews Therin in his head all the time, and old Lews would have seized the power and balefired Lanfear himself rather than climb into bed with her again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 03:38
|
|
|
Never kill a woman, never forget a name, weep for them all. "Hey Lews, Mierin wants to gently caress." Murder her immediately.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 03:42
|
|
|
Invalid Validation posted:Could she not have just compelled him? If you use Compelling on someone too much or too strongly you turn their brain to mush. She needs Rand/Lews intact and functional if she's going to be Empress of Everything, so she didn't dare.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 03:46
|
|
|
jng2058 posted:If you use Compelling on someone too much or too strongly you turn their brain to mush. She needs Rand/Lews intact and functional if she's going to be Empress of Everything, so she didn't dare. Also, this is established later, but compulsion doesn't work on someone already holding the power, and she's constantly trying to get him to channel in those early scenes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 03:53
|
|
|
Anias posted:With jordan's penchant for fading to black, it's unclear exactly what level of sex lanfear and any particular character engaged in, but that's sort of moot. INVADING DREAMS is certainly a non-consensual rape part, and all the dreamers do that on the regular. They're not good people. Yeah, this is more what I meant in my original comment. Regardless of the "physical" circumstances of the dream invasions, the fact that they're sexual and absent of the possibility of consent makes them pretty blatantly rape. Dream penises don't have to go in dream vaginas. Invading another person's dreams for any reason is arguably rape, but Lanfear's shenanigans are straightforwardly so.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 03:59
|
|
|
I mean, how lovely of a person do you have to be to be that beautiful and not get any? Oh right, the kind who would literally unleash Satan.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 04:06
|
|
|
Old Kentucky Shark posted:It's really amusing that only Ishamael ever really understood what the Dark one was, or what being Forsaken was actually about. Interestingly you can make a pretty good argument that Ishmael was wrong. His whole argument was that there are an infinite number of turnings of the Wheel and the Dark One only has to win once, so his victory is certain. But if there have already been an infinite number of turnings and the Dark One has never won (as evidenced by the wheel continuing to turn), then the probability of the Dark One winning must be zero and he and the Forsaken will never win.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 04:15
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:I mean, how lovely of a person do you have to be to be that beautiful and not get any? To be fair, she didn't mean to do it the first time. On the other hand, she sure was pretty quick to start going around saying "Hail Satan" as soon as that became an option, so your point is well taken.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 04:32
|
|
|
VikingofRock posted:Interestingly you can make a pretty good argument that Ishmael was wrong. His whole argument was that there are an infinite number of turnings of the Wheel and the Dark One only has to win once, so his victory is certain. But if there have already been an infinite number of turnings and the Dark One has never won (as evidenced by the wheel continuing to turn), then the probability of the Dark One winning must be zero and he and the Forsaken will never win. "Ishamael was wrong" and "Ishamael was the smartest of the Forsaken" are not contradictory. I like the idea that it's not that the Dark One's probability of winning is zero, but that time is simply finite, not infinite. The Dark One exists outside of time as it is known within the world, makes one strike (well, a few? one at the end of the third age), and is defeated once.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 06:02
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Thinking about all the Lanfear chat, if she'd waited until he was a loony then tried her whole 'yo we can kill the Dark One together,' it may have actually worked. Maybe. I dunno. Isn't that what Moiraine saw in the 'finn ter'angreal, which then led to her tackling Lanfear into the other one? I don't remember if that was explicitly stated or not, but that was the impression I got.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 07:37
|
|
|
Ponsonby Britt posted:Isn't that what Moiraine saw in the 'finn ter'angreal, which then led to her tackling Lanfear into the other one? I don't remember if that was explicitly stated or not, but that was the impression I got. Not quite. It was actually in the make-women-wise-one-apprentices-ter'angreal in Ruidean that she saw either Lanfear killing Rand, Lanfear making him her obedient toy, or that third option.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 10:47
|
|
|
Yeah, what he said. It's interesting because if she'd bided her time and observed, she may have had a better shot at him. But she was brought low because she just had to have him as soon as she was loose. You can probably make a strong case that each of the Forsaken is brought down by their various flaws. My favourite has to be Be'lal, who is so busy plotting to trap Rand that he just never even considers an Aes Sedai marching up and balefiring his rear end
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 10:52
|
|
|
Vavrek posted:I like the idea that it's not that the Dark One's probability of winning is zero, but that time is simply finite, not infinite. The Dark One exists outside of time as it is known within the world, makes one strike (well, a few? one at the end of the third age), and is defeated once. FWIW this was my theory even as early as the newsgroups.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 16:05
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Yeah, what he said. It's interesting because if she'd bided her time and observed, she may have had a better shot at him. But she was brought low because she just had to have him as soon as she was loose. Yeah I was wondering what vices/deadly sins would match up to the forsaken the other day. The other fun thing about Lanfear is Rand saying the exact wrong thing, comparing her to Aes Sedai and pissing her off and messing up her groove trying to persuade him. Also my favorite new theorycraft is that the Dark One and the Creator are the same being, that they sealed themselves up in the act of creation and it's their imprisonment that drives the Wheel. All they want is for existence to end, but can't do it without the consent of the Created.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 16:16
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:I mean, how lovely of a person do you have to be to be that beautiful and not get any? Then later ENSLAVE SATAN You know, because that makes her a better person. I’ve said it before but I think the actual DO gets a bad rap, dude just wants to stop dealing with these people every cycle of the ages. Unlike everyone else in the cosmology he has to remember all these interactions back across however many iterations. I still like lanfear as a character because she is genuinely evil and keeps getting away with it, which is a great inversion of the misunderstood baddy trope. Even when she herself is enslaved she’s still down for slavery, just gotta be the one holding the leash. As a person though she’s nearly the worst.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 17:33
|
|
|
The Dark One is Bill Murray from Groundhogs Day except that there’s no hope of escape, just an eternity of Sonny and Cher and Tobolowsky, or oblivion. .
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 17:52
|
|
|
My absolute favorite Lanfear moment is when she confidently turns her wiles on Perrin and he simply brushes it off and snaps her neck. Truly fitting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 17:55
|
|
|
That has shades of the Weasley/Lestrange showdown as well, where the point is that obsession or compulsion has got nothing on real, genuine love. Lanfear is bad, sure, but I personally consider Graendal to be the worst. I guess in some ways Rahvin was similar to her, but he seemed happy just having his harem, where with Graendal destroying someone's very being was the entire point. Ugh, I can't believe I wrote "just having his harem" Ok they're all awful and trying to rate them in terms of awfulness is pointless
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 20:51
|
|
|
Yeah like, "I decided to become an embodiment of evil and terrorize the world...so I could listen to and make music forever" sounds better but when you look at it closely, seriously man?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 21:10
|
|
|
The guide basically states that even the "best" of the forsaken still controlled cities that rounded up non-dark friends and fed them to Trollocs. It also says that the forsaken we know are just the remaining forsaken that were trapped with the dark one. There were forsaken that came before them that just didn't survive until the sealing of the DO's prison. Shame we never got to hear about them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2020 21:19
|
|
|
UltraRed posted:The guide basically states that even the "best" of the forsaken still controlled cities that rounded up non-dark friends and fed them to Trollocs. Presumably their names survive in demonology and mythology to some extent. Maybe the two surviving Forsaken coughed up a complete history of the War of Power and reintroduced their names to historical record in the next age.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2020 04:07
|
|
|
"The Shadow Rising, ch. 5: Questioners posted:“Stilling is not a thing anyone would choose to study, you understand,” Nynaeve continued. “It is generally accepted to be irreversible. What makes a woman able to channel cannot be replaced once it is removed, any more than a hand that has been cut off can be Healed back into existence.” Just, you know, for instance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 07:48
|
|
|
There's a bunch of little things like that, offhand comments that foreshadow future events. It's what's making the re-read so fun for me
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 08:01
|
|
|
Seriously. I haven't listened to the audiobooks before, but part of why I like it is that the pace is slower than my reading, and never skims over familiar material. I'm catching those little things a lot more frequently than I'm used to.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 08:11
|
|
|
There's a cool scene in Ebou Dar I think, where Mat is once again asking random people whether they know the "Daughter of the Nine Moons". One guy in the tavern suddenly gets a coughing fit, but Mat doesn't pay attention to that. At the end of the book, the same guy is riding away from the city and thinking to himself that he hopes the Altarans resist the Return, since it will give more opportunities for looting. I certainly didn't pick this up on my first read.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2020 08:43
|
|
|
Everyone complains about Perrin spending three books moping about how his wife is a captive, but Faile and him fighting in The Shadow Rising is just insufferable. Gaul, however, remains the best. quote:“Come with me?” Perrin felt stunned. If he had Aiel with him. . . . There were possibilities he had not dared consider before. “Rand asked you to come with me? To the Two Rivers?”
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 20:27
|
|
|
Vavrek posted:Everyone complains about Perrin spending three books moping about how his wife is a captive, but Faile and him fighting in The Shadow Rising is just insufferable. He is! He has one of my favourite jokes in the Sanderson books. quote:"Come in, Gaul," he called. "My shade is yours."
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 21:13
|
|
|
Gaul owns
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 21:24
|
|
|
An incredibly stupid/insightful pun has just come to me. What can be said about Aiel humor, compared to Wetlander jokes? Well, it's very dry. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 21:32
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Gaul owns  Vavrek posted:An incredibly stupid/insightful pun has just come to me. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 22:42
|
|
|
Hope the show doesn't have aiel struggling to say "River" while wetlanders can say algai'd'siswai without batting an eye
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 23:17
|
|
|
I still like Mangin. Dude knew he hosed up, confessed, and paid the price for it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 23:39
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:I still like Mangin. Dude knew he hosed up, confessed, and paid the price for it. I still get sad when I read that part. The best segment of it though is when he leaves, Rand giving Berelain poo poo for not applying the law and needing him to step in.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2020 23:44
|
|
|
I completely understand Aiel humor. Stupid wetlanders are dense as poo poo.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 01:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 15:17 |
|
|
Invalid Validation posted:I completely understand Aiel humor. Stupid wetlanders are dense as poo poo. I shared their confusion the first time I read it Now on my reread I totally get it and loving every interaction. Nynaeve and the Maidens, Mat outside the Stone, Perrin meeting the random ones in the woods, they're all great and amazingly consistent through the series Nynaeve and the Maidens is especially good because they're constantly riffing on Aviendha refusing to go with the Wise Ones
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2020 03:19
|
|