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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Gaming requirements are all on console cycles now. I went from a 2012 i5-3570k to a 3600x and I was still running games at high on 1920x1080 with a ~2015. GPU upgrade. Gonna be fun when everyone starts complaining that their games aren't working properly on their lovely platter hdds Ssds as standard baseline is long overdue
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May 7, 2020 15:05
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Inept posted:AMD only did that because they had nothing else going for them. They can go by Intel's playbook now that they have the upper hand. Yup, but they still can't play by Intel's playbook. AMD is definitely on the upswing, but Intel could easily ruin it all. Intel is just so much more cash-rich than AMD, that if they wanted to, they could really give them a hard time. AMD need to make sure to not lose any mindshare.
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May 7, 2020 15:06
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Someone maintains a Docs spreadsheet with a bunch of mobo specs, but it's not straightforward to sort and filter based on ROM size: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/ Still your best data set if you want to take a second look at what the future might look like for pre-500 motherboards.
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May 7, 2020 15:09
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Gonna be fun when everyone starts complaining that their games aren't working properly on their lovely platter hdds I built my last PC in 2012 with a SSD for the OS + platter drive for game storage threw that platter drive out the fuckin window in 2018 when Battletech took two minutes to load a save
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May 7, 2020 15:13
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I still run plenty of games off a 7200 rpm HDD and initially loading a bit slower is usually fine (the games where it's not fine just go onto the SSD).
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May 7, 2020 15:17
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ufarn posted:Someone maintains a Docs spreadsheet with a bunch of mobo specs, but it's not straightforward to sort and filter based on ROM size: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/ Who would make a spreadsheet like this and not freeze the header rows
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May 7, 2020 15:18
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GunnerJ posted:Who would make a spreadsheet like this and not freeze the header rows I guess someone saw this, because they're frozen for me at least now
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May 7, 2020 15:21
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HalloKitty posted:I guess someone saw this, because they're frozen for me at least now Hell yeah, feeling v. powerful rn
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May 7, 2020 15:23
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orcane posted:Guess we know what the 3100/3300X are for - they're the only cheap CPUs officially supported on the B550 boards. fake edit after actually reading the article: quote:What's more, older Ryzen 2000 "Pinnacle Ridge," "Raven Ridge," and first gen Ryzen 1000 "Summit Ridge" aren't supported, either. The Athlon 200 and 3000 "Zen" based chips miss out, too. loving lol cool beans AMD
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May 7, 2020 15:41
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:I built my last PC in 2012 with a SSD for the OS + platter drive for game storage i just cram more ram into my pc these days. i need it for work anyway, and since about windows 8.1 even microsoft figured out that yes, you can permanently cache poo poo in currently unused ram! first game boot might take a hot minute or two but after that poo poo's just instant. i am probably gonna replace the 3 platter drives i have left with ssds soon though, they're starting to get loving loud as they get old, i think they're from 2009 or something
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May 7, 2020 15:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:
But maybe don't go around touting x years of socket compatibility if that's just hypothetical because you're effectively limiting the compatibility to a handful of CPU generations. Not supporting a CPU because you want to keep the BIOS sizes down for a CPU release in a year or two is just 
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May 7, 2020 15:59
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:Generally, most of that difference is made up by the massive L3 caches AMD is throwing at the problem. The F processors aren't going to have any advantage here, memory latency is defined by the IF bus frequency and all the offerings support ddr4-3200 which is what you should be putting in these systems. It's pretty much impossible to know how the workload you are describing will perform until you're actually running it on the hardware. We did our proof of concept testing on AWS rental Zen1 Eypc systems to make sure things performed on-par with Xeons before we pulled the trigger and ordered from Dell. The AWS idea would be nice to try if they had those latest CPUs. In my case, there's enough processing involved that clock speeds are relevant. Maybe my googlefu is just weak, but it's amazing how much easier it is to find detailed comparisons of desktop CPUs versus server ones.
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May 7, 2020 16:30
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This was a year and a half ago, I would be surprised if AWS hasn't had a hardware refresh with Zen2 chips at this point. There is less of a disparity in spec between Epyc and Ryzen on Zen2 than there was with Zen1 thanks to the IO chip in front of the cores. Using a cheap Ryzen chip with the memory locked at 3200 would be be pretty good for a worst-case estimate on Eypc performance for the workload you are describing. You'll need to apply a coefficient to account for the frequency differences between the all-core/single-core turbo speeds depending on how parallel this workload is but from a latency standpoint it would be comparable
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May 7, 2020 16:42
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Hardware Unboxed saying that like the PCIe 4.0 on x470/B450 debacle, AMD won’t allow board partners to support Zen3 on earlier boards even if they want to. Still rumor.
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May 7, 2020 16:44
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Guys, I wouldn't panic yet. We had the same situation when Zen 2 was announced, and it ended with 3950x support on a320 boards. Not saying it will turn out exactly the same this time, but I am highly confident x470 and b450 will support zen 3.
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May 7, 2020 16:44
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orcane posted:I mean to be fair the 3300X is really good for a 4-core CPU if prices are right. And Ryzen 3000 wasn't "supported" on the 300-series chipsets either but still runs on many B350/X370 and even A320 mainboards - ultimately it's on the manufacturer and I can't imagine they want to launch B550 boards with only two available CPUs. I mean yeah if Biostar does that thing again where they force-through compability on their A320 boards I'd be happy as a clam, but I'll believe it when I see it
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May 7, 2020 16:45
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AMD is being scummy here, but I'm not upset since by the time I need a CPU upgrade I will need a new board anyway and it has been so since 2003. At worst its just another $100 extra or so for a new B550 mobo if I got really, really bored with my current still overkill 3600/B450M Mortar setup. My only annoyance with it is the 2nd M2 slot is limited to PCIe gen2.
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May 7, 2020 16:50
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The chart says 3000 series processors don't work on x370, b350 and a320, when they clearly do. This is just AMD's requirement to board partners for B550. The board partners will add support to their older models just like they did last time. https://www.forbes.com/sites/antony...s/#2a5a0ebd34e2 This happened before guys.
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May 7, 2020 16:59
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Cygni posted:Hardware Unboxed saying that like the PCIe 4.0 on x470/B450 debacle, AMD won’t allow board partners to support Zen3 on earlier boards even if they want to. Still rumor. On the other hand, if it's "necessary" because power delivery or some internal layout change of the CPU requires it, they're in the exact same boat as Intel. It would make the promise of "socket compatibility" completely meaningless and no one would take them seriously if they tried to use it again as a bullet point for AM5.
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May 7, 2020 17:03
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Ok Comboomer posted:I was literally about to pull the trigger on an $80 3200g + $80 ASRock B450m Pro4 combo with the intent of throwing in something like an rx580 in the future and then maybe eventually upgrading the cpu to something with 6-8 cores down the line. I guess I should’ve phrased this as a question. What do? I figure I’d actually be pretty happy with something like a 3600X/3700X (or hell, even like a 3100/3300X) a year or two from now.
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May 7, 2020 17:07
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Dramicus posted:The chart says 3000 series processors don't work on x370, b350 and a320, when they clearly do. This is just AMD's requirement to board partners for B550. The board partners will add support to their older models just like they did last time. What hasn't happened before afaik is the lack of support for older AMD processors in newer chipsets (bios memory limitations aside) on AM4. It seems like AMD is trying to draw a hard line this time.
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May 7, 2020 17:12
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Inept posted:What hasn't happened before afaik is the lack of support for older AMD processors in newer chipsets (bios memory limitations aside) on AM4. It seems like AMD is trying to draw a hard line this time. 1st Gen Ryzen support was added back into x570. It wasn't there at launch, but it's there now.
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May 7, 2020 17:14
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That's good to hear. I'm still skeptical since AMD put the kibosh on PCIEv4 on their board partners to keep feature segmentation.
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May 7, 2020 17:23
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Inept posted:What hasn't happened before afaik is the lack of support for older AMD processors in newer chipsets (bios memory limitations aside) on AM4. It seems like AMD is trying to draw a hard line this time. We don't know that yet. AMD has said not supported, but that's what they said with Zen 2 on 3X0 at this months ahead of launch stage. It turned out to be not officially supported, asterisk asterisk asterisk, OEMs add support just fine anyways. AMD blocking support like with PCIe 4 is a rumor, the same sort of wild talk was going around before. If this was Steve saying "a source that I know inside a major OEM who I can vouch for" said something like that, then I'd be concerned. Also, another thing to keep in mind for the thread: we have no idea how much Zen 3 will be an improvement. There's been some unverified leaks about better IPC and big gains, but again that's happened before. When Zen+ was upcoming it was heavily overestimated. Turned out to be a nice improvement but not nearly the 10% per-clock boost that got bandied around. Ok Comboomer posted:I guess I should’ve phrased this as a question. AM4 is limited for the long term no matter what -- Zen 3 or not, by 2022 the CPUs are switching to DDR5 and you're locked out of upgrades anyways. I doubt being stuck with Zen 2 instead of Zen 3 will be something you'd be massively unhappy with at your budget level.
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May 7, 2020 17:24
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Inept posted:That's good to hear. I'm still skeptical since AMD put the kibosh on PCIEv4 on their board partners to keep feature segmentation. For now I would wait until we start hearing from the board partners. From what I remember about the PCIe 4.0 shenanigans was due to the unlocked boards not actually meeting the official spec of 4.0. They came close, but didn't technically meet the spec. I think from a legal standpoint, AMD didn't want partners advertising 4.0 support when it didn't actually count as 4.0, more like 95% of it.
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May 7, 2020 17:25
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Ok Comboomer posted:I guess I should’ve phrased this as a question. I am in the same boat - 3600 now, upgrade to AM4 large-core when AM5 comes out - and went with an X570 (still on its way). There's a new MSI x570 board that's supposedly out this month at $200 that seems like a good all-rounder: x570 Tomahawk. But that's a lot more than $80.
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May 7, 2020 17:30
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Dramicus posted:For now I would wait until we start hearing from the board partners. From what I remember about the PCIe 4.0 shenanigans was due to the unlocked boards not actually meeting the official spec of 4.0. They came close, but didn't technically meet the spec. I think from a legal standpoint, AMD didn't want partners advertising 4.0 support when it didn't actually count as 4.0, more like 95% of it. They didn't seem to mind advertising clocks that the CPUs were only capable of reaching 95% of 
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May 7, 2020 17:32
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https://twitter.com/hardwareunboxed/status/1258402421161656321
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May 7, 2020 17:32
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ConanTheLibrarian posted:They didn't seem to mind advertising clocks that the CPUs were only capable of reaching 95% of lol, touche. They've been dead wrong more than once. As was said before, Steve from Gamers Nexus is the one to watch. Ok Comboomer posted:I guess I should’ve phrased this as a question. You could wait until June to get a B550 and have Zen 3 support. They will cost ~$100. A little more than what you are currently looking at, but maybe worth it for long-term support.
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May 7, 2020 17:38
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Welp, Wendell's done cracked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFmbJGzsFrE
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May 7, 2020 17:38
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To be clear, any new release later this year would be Zen 2-based APUs (or the desktop equivalent to the 4000 series on mobile that was recently released), so all this hubbub about Zen 3 support is for much later?
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May 7, 2020 17:39
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gradenko_2000 posted:To be clear, any new release later this year would be Zen 2-based APUs (or the desktop equivalent to the 4000 series on mobile that was recently released), so all this hubbub about Zen 3 support is for much later? No, Zen 3 which will also be named 4000 will be launching in 2020. e: Dramicus posted:You could wait until June to get a B550 and have Zen 3 support. They will cost ~$100. A little more than what you are currently looking at, but maybe worth it for long-term support. Like, if AMD makes a Zen 4 that doesn't have DDR5 I'd be very surprised. Klyith fucked around with this message at 17:43 on May 7, 2020 |
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May 7, 2020 17:40
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Going by the Zen 2 release, we could see a staged release from late June/mid July to October. I wouldn't be surprised if the 4600/4700/4800 were available by August with the big boys coming out closer to October.
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May 7, 2020 17:43
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Klyith posted:No, Zen 3 which will also be named 4000 will be launching in 2020. Ah ha, thank you
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May 7, 2020 17:43
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Klyith posted:e: Assuming a worst case scenario and Zen 3 isn't compatible on anything lower, in his case, he would get the most out of a b550 in terms of upgrades. He could pick an affordable cpu now and upgrade to Zen 3 once prices drop.
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May 7, 2020 17:46
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Either way, new AMD CPU means the first three months - to be generous - after release will be spent on a bum rush of BIOS updates fixing all kinds of stuff, so that was gonna happen regardless. Hopefully my Crosshair VII Hero will be supported by the time 4000 is discounted a year from now.
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May 7, 2020 17:48
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Dramicus posted:They've been dead wrong more than once. As was said before, Steve from Gamers Nexus is the one to watch. Ok, but they are far more informed and sourced than us looking at a lovely AMD marketing slide and trying to decipher what they really mean. https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/status/1258411872539176960
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May 7, 2020 18:37
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Officially confirmed.quote:What about (X pre-500 Series chipset)?
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May 7, 2020 18:45
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Paul MaudDib posted:Officially confirmed. 3000 officially don't have support for a320, b350, and x370 but they are running on those platforms anyway. I'll wait for board partners to confirm their products won't support it.
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May 7, 2020 19:00
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Welp, Wendell's done cracked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFmbJGzsFrE I liked that this showed 0.1% results, even though they're a tiny minority of your overall frames it's a good way to show how Windows itself (or the game engine) will effect consistency. For avg/1% lows most CPU's are clustered together for the most part once you have 8 threads with most games, but a couple of extra cores can go a huge distance in preventing stutters from some background task kicking off. Hardware Unboxed should include those imo. Was understood Windows 10's "Game Mode" was supposed to minimize this effect for lower-core count CPU's, but I also hear it was pared back/changed with subsequent builds? It was kinda sketchy at the start where it debuted in around 2017 but I've heard nothing on it since, it seemed like something that could be expanded upon.
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May 7, 2020 19:15
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