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I'll admit that I'm more familiar with the 90s movies than the TV show, but one of my favorite parts of The Addams Family is that they're a very loving and functional family.
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May 8, 2020 01:20
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The good thing about Monk (the show) is that the premise is that cops can't solve a case that's even a little complicated. Also there were definitely episodes where the detectives would want to arrest someone and Monk would stop them because he knew they were after the wrong guy. The bad thing is that Monk was never wrong and rarely had any actual evidence. It was a fun show but my wife and I watched through a few seasons in short order and when you binge it like that it really shows that most of the time Monk has semi miracously solved the case with like one clue. And almost every time the perp ends up confessing after Monk's explanation so case closed, I guess.
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May 8, 2020 01:31
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Cleretic posted:So... Arrow? Pretty sure you're asking for Arrow. Superheroes are absolutely horrific the second you apply real geopolitical logic to them. They tacitly endorse:
But that's not really their core appeal. The core appeal is that these characters are broad archetypes that reflect 20th and 21st Century sensibilities (e.g: Superman is a working-class immigrant who has the power to upset wannabe God-Kings in a weight class above his normal station; Spider-Man is a puberty metaphor; The Flash is a young adulthood metaphor; The X-Men reflect the rise of teen/youth culture and how it frightens the increasingly large elder population; Batman, Thor, Wonder Woman, Black Panther, and others are various modern interpretations of noblesse oblige; Green Lantern is about law enforcement; The Fantastic Four are the nuclear dream of the 1950s and early 60s). Thus the real joy of watching anything with superheroes is to see the characters interact with occasional team-ups and crossovers for even more pairings. The interplay is always the appeal. It's never "oh I sure do wonder if that Joker is gonna be successful." Literally no one has ever once thought that when standing in line for a Batman product. They're soap operas first and foremost. All of the stuff about fighting outside the law is window dressing to allow them to exist in a contemporary setting and engage in contemporary situations, and the superabilities they use are visualized manifestations of their archetypal appeal-- e.g: Captain America is the weak but morally righteous man given the ability to enact his will by being a physically perfect human, the Hulk is the sentient manifestation of science's ability to effect great change by smashing up everything, and Arrow's Robin Hood schtick is literally vigilantism refracted through a more socially conscientious lens of a classic social justice figure. The action scenes function similarly to musical numbers that break up pacing and allow for cool visuals and actions that can help reinforce the themes and character arcs of the stories they're telling. Follow through too hard with the "logic" about superhero geopolitics--even though as they stand there's a lot of weird, problematic poo poo implied by their existence--and you break the appeal. That's a core reason Zack Snyder and DC's entire approach to their movies tanked initially-- they tried really hard to have it both ways and you can't. You either follow through or you don't. But because superheroes are also so purely, obviously fantasy it's ultimately easy to get away with not focusing on the more problematic aspects-- or even turning those into narrative advantages like they did in Black Panther or Thor 3-- you don't often wind up with the ashy taste of fascism in your mouth that you do get when marathoning Blue Bloods, Law and Order, or some other "grown up show" that is every bit as unrealistic about superheroes but with a genuine pretension to the contrary. the_steve posted:That's probably more of a mark against the audience. mind the walrus has a new favorite as of 01:37 on May 8, 2020 |
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May 8, 2020 01:35
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Ugly In The Morning posted:It was more this is absolutely losing on appeal and I don’t want them to make a Supreme Court case out of it, IIRC. Similar, but less “I think you’re straight up wrong” and more “I don’t want this poisoning the well in the future” It may have been intended to be the latter view, but the former is easy to interpret as that specific judge shows up a few times in those seasons as essentially an antagonist, specifically disliking McCoy, until Nora essentially threatens him. Arivia posted:Also if you've never seen it, Season 8 ends with McCoy almost getting disbarred; he gets censured over hiding a witness from the defense so he can win a case. McCoy definitely went too far a fair amount of the time. The former comes up a few times latter on with Cutter, where McCoy mentions a few older cases getting overturned on appeal or him having gone way over the line. The one I specifically recall being brought back up is the episode from season 5, Precious, where he tried to have a woman sterilized after she kept killing her babies. Cutter brings it up at one point, and McCoy admits he was wrong at the time. For the latter, I remember a former ADA mentioning that to Kincaid once (Google'd it, was the episode Trophy from season 6), and McCoy's history with his previous assistants gets brought up now and then, but I don't recall it being implied he did anything with any of the others after that. Like, Ross makes references to dating outside of the office, and at least once they talk about her setting up McCoy with a friend of hers (And asking why Claire Kincaid's name came up on that date). I don't recall them showing McCoy's relationships with any of the others that came later being anything other than working ones.
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May 8, 2020 01:41
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Stone was a better prosecutor than McCoy
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May 8, 2020 01:55
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Arrow sucks because in the comics/cartoons Ollie is a hardcore leftist/socialist and literally none of that is in the CW show. He even told the Justice League to gently caress off multiple times because he viewed them as authoritarian grandstanders. It's literally the most interesting thing about him, that separates him from other super heroes (literally Robin Hood stealing the rich, stopping bad guys, giving to the poor) and the cw said "gently caress Oliver Queen's integral characteristics also we hate Dinah Laurel Lance so gently caress Black Canary too lol" I stopped watching in s3 it went from good to really bad
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May 8, 2020 01:55
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Koalas March posted:Arrow sucks because in the comics/cartoons Ollie is a hardcore leftist/socialist and literally none of that is in the CW show. He even told the Justice League to gently caress off multiple times because he viewed them as authoritarian grandstanders. The Arrow show was very blatantly the CW coming to grips with not having the license to do that "young Batman" show they've been pitching since before 9/11, so once you let that go and enjoy it as diet-Batman it has a certain gormless charm. But yeah it got bad around Season 3 and every spin-off was better.
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May 8, 2020 01:58
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mind the walrus posted:You're on the ball. Superhero stories have a weird scaffolding problem, but they tend to be a lot less reprehensible than cop shows on-balance unless you're a dense motherfucker who can't wake up and smell the soap operas. The most recent iteration of SHIELD turned out to be run by literal nazis, so the writers are aware of this
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May 8, 2020 02:10
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Yeah, Oliver Queen in Arrow is just an ersatz Batman. But it's a good ersatz Batman, and if we allow him into the list Stephen Amell is probably the best 'Batman' actor of the modern day, just because he so consistently got both the civilian and vigilante sides right. (EDIT: Also for never having to deal with the Joker's dumb, boring bullshit) Also, they probably made up for that misstep by fixing the Flash being weirdly conservative (boy THAT was a weird thing to find out was a consistent detail), just going super hard on the immigrant story in Supergirl, and sprinkling all those shows full of really solid LGBT characters. After all that, I can't be too mad that their Oliver Queen is probably a moderate 'believes the right things but not very strongly' Democrat.
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May 8, 2020 02:15
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Piss Meridian posted:The most recent iteration of SHIELD turned out to be run by literal nazis, so the writers are aware of this Cleretic posted:Yeah, Oliver Queen in Arrow is just an ersatz Batman. But it's a good ersatz Batman, and if we allow him into the list Stephen Amell is probably the best 'Batman' actor of the modern day, just because he so consistently got both the civilian and vigilante sides right. (EDIT: Also for never having to deal with the Joker's dumb, boring bullshit)
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May 8, 2020 02:32
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tactlessbastard posted:Stone was a better prosecutor than McCoy I think if I was a criminal I’d want Stone trying me, not McCoy. Stone was a man of principles and very compassionate; McCoy is much more aggressive and vengeful. You can deal with Stone, you’ll have to do some time but he will let you plead it down. McCoy won’t take a plea at all. (This is also why Stone leaving feels so right: you can see him getting tired and worn down and just losing his faith in the work as a character, notwithstanding all the behind the scenes drama*.) Now Cutter? Cutter’s just a ratfuck bastard, and you are completely screwed if your case crosses his desk. *yeah for those of you not familiar with Law and Order’s history, here’s a fun fact: there was a controversy where L&O was considered too violent and bloody for broadcast television by the US government https://www.upi.com/Archives/1993/12/03/Law-Order-star-blasts-Reno-for-TV-censorship/2043754894800/ That’s right. Staid old L&O, too bloody and violent.
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May 8, 2020 03:02
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“Blackjack” McCoy consumes the souls of those he has put away and if left unchecked would have grown to reign triumphant over a dead and lifeless earth after the last person begs for mercy only to be told the best he can do is 25 to life
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May 8, 2020 03:07
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Arivia posted:I think if I was a criminal I’d want Stone trying me, not McCoy. Stone was a man of principles and very compassionate; McCoy is much more aggressive and vengeful. You can deal with Stone, you’ll have to do some time but he will let you plead it down. McCoy won’t take a plea at all. (This is also why Stone leaving feels so right: you can see him getting tired and worn down and just losing his faith in the work as a character, notwithstanding all the behind the scenes drama*.) McCoy essentially says that the law is a game, whoever plays it best win and a quote that sticks with me. Claire or Kincaid: What about justice? McCoy: A byproduct.
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May 8, 2020 03:40
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L&O is a good reminder of how hosed up the justice system is. There'd be some cases where a person would get hosed over just by being at the wrong place.
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May 8, 2020 04:10
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mind the walrus posted:The Arrow show was very blatantly the CW coming to grips with not having the license to do that "young Batman" show they've been pitching since before 9/11, so once you let that go and enjoy it as diet-Batman it has a certain gormless charm. But yeah it got bad around Season 3 and every spin-off was better. S5 of Arrow is one of the best of the show though, especially if you ignore the terrible episode about gun control.
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May 8, 2020 04:10
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Also goddamn does it make tv writers lazy. There was a tv show a few years ago about Neil Gaiman 90s goth satan running a nightclub and the hook of the show was that he helps the police solve mysteries. Assuming you're talking about Lucifer A) That show is still going on and B) as the show goes on it becomes more and more obvious that this was a Person Of Interest situation i.e. "the network will only fund this if we make it a procedural." It's a pretty dumb show but it's entertaining and as it goes on it becomes more of a supernatural soap opera with the occasional murder case.
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May 8, 2020 09:29
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AceOfFlames posted:Assuming you're talking about Lucifer A) That show is still going on and B) as the show goes on it becomes more and more obvious that this was a Person Of Interest situation i.e. "the network will only fund this if we make it a procedural." It's a pretty dumb show but it's entertaining and as it goes on it becomes more of a supernatural soap opera with the occasional murder case. Person of Interesest was great because they were having so much fun with the procedural side of things. For those who haven't seen it - it's a sort of proto-Westworld/AI trhiller meshed with a police procedural. There's a secret omniscient spying AI that regularly spits out social security numbers of uh...Persons of Interest, for our vigilante heros to go deal with. The gimmick being: a) All they get is the SSN b) The Machine doesnt tell them if the PoI is a perperator or a victim So part of each episode is them figuring out who the PoI is, and whether they need to be protected, or stopped from doing some unspeakable crime. And over the course of the show they run through pretty much every twist and trick on those two gimmicks you can think of. One person with multiple SSN. Two people with the same SSN (which is real? which is the fake? are they both fake?). Is this obviously bad person about to be the victim of an even worse person? Is this fine upstanding citizen actually planning an atrocity? Is this fine upstanding citizen who is actually planning an atrocity also about to be the victim of an even worse person? And what if that person also has a fake SSN that's been stolen by a different person who looks evil but is actually etc etc etc. High point of the series is when they get two SSNs, for a husband and wife, and discover that each is secretly trying to murder the other to claim on the inheritence. The episode ends with a tense mexican standoff, before Our Heroes decide that the husband and wife can both go gently caress themselves and just leave them to it
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May 8, 2020 14:47
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Person of Interest was really good when it was a procedural. Then it did this sudden switch where the background details suddenly became the main plot and it was dumb and sucked.
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May 8, 2020 15:01
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Tiggum posted:Person of Interest was really good when it was a procedural. Then it did this sudden switch where the background details suddenly became the main plot and it was dumb and sucked. This but the opposite.
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May 8, 2020 15:05
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X-Men have always been a bit of a necessary counterpoint in the superhero genre for being explicitly an oppressed minority that is constantly under threat of genocide by the government. To a lesser extent Spider-man, though obv the MCU one kinda screws that up.
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May 8, 2020 15:14
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Ghost Leviathan posted:X-Men have always been a bit of a necessary counterpoint in the superhero genre for being explicitly an oppressed minority that is constantly under threat of genocide by the government. To a lesser extent Spider-man, though obv the MCU one kinda screws that up.  It just doesn't work. Grant Morrison and many other writers have (correctly) concluded that the X-Men are a persistent metaphor for youth culture, vitality, the breaking of social mores once thought fixed and immutable, and the hostility that comes from a dominant culture unprepared for them. This is why it's easy to mistake them as a metaphor for LGBTQ+ or Minorities because in the mid-20th Century those were flashpoints of youth culture clashing with establishment culture, but again you can't really carry the metaphor that the X-Men are 1:1 minorities without losing the escapist fantasy element. They even tried to carry the whole minority angle further from 2005-2015 or so with M-Day/Utopia/Messiah Complex/AvX/Schism/etc. They tried to minimize the cast, force them on the run or into bunkers working together, and while it led to interesting stuff with "good boy" characters like Cyclops ending up a radicalized terrorist in the Magneto mold with Wolverine's "bad boy" holding true to Xavier's dream of co-operation, it ultimately ended up rather dour and lost a lot of the "God I wish I could escape to this place" wish-fulfillment where you get to leave whatever backwater you grew up in, your painful puberty turns you into a beautiful custom butterfly with a bespoke superpower, and you get to live in a mansion full of luxuries, toys, and hot people. The current milieu for the characters is to try and square the difference by making another island mutant nation called Krakoa that is awesome and has sexy parties and drugs that keep you healthy, but is also under threat from governments that don't recognize their sovereignty, fringe groups who want to take/wreck their poo poo, and political undertow from within. It still feels very recognizably X-Men, only now you don't have to pretend the "hated and feared by those we protect" thing is in an isolated pocket from the "Pool party on the Moon followed by a kickass space adventure with all my best friends" aspect. If anything it feels like they took a page from Black Panther and told the X-Men "well make your own Wakanda" and they did, and about one year in it's genuinely been some of the most fun I've ever had reading X-Men books. mind the walrus has a new favorite as of 16:07 on May 8, 2020 |
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May 8, 2020 16:05
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What's Storm up to? She's the best one
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May 8, 2020 16:10
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Some villains planted some sort of techno-virus bomb in her that's gonna explode in a month or two. Emma and Jean had to go into her head to figure it out and it owned.     She's also been helping Kitty Pryde as one of the point-women on the "Marauders." See, Kitty Pryde can't go through the magic teleportation plants that are all around the world for some reason. So Emma Frost-- who currently runs the business of selling the life-giving drugs Krakoa grows to other nations in-exchange for recognition of sovereignty-- decided to make Kitty the "Red Queen." Now Kitty gets a kickass super-yacht she can sail around the world acting as the pirate enforcement arm of Frost's Hellfire Trading company, helping bring mutants who can't get to the teleportation gates to Krakoa and stopping things like illegal smuggling. Her team includes Storm, Iceman, Bishop, and Pyro. Bishop and Pyro are there mostly because they don't have anywhere better to be-- currently Bishop is being primed to act as Kitty's chief officer-- but Iceman and Storm are there because they've realized that if Kitty can't use the teleportation gates then it's very possible that the Krakoan plant technology they use to revive any mutants who die won't resurrect her. Oh yeah, that's a thing now-- 5 mutants ( So yeah Storm is currently acting as Kitty Pryde's guardian angel, and doing kind-of a poo poo job. Turns out when Emma emasculates Sebastian Shaw a bunch despite him nominally being one of the Hellfire Company's leaders he ends up making power plays and being a petty dickhead, so it's up in the air if his goons managed to drown Kitty yet or not. I really cannot stress enough how fresh this all feels, and it doesn't even feel like some crappy MCU trial run. It just feels like fun adventure comics that knows how to leverage its wide cast in interesting ways:       The interior art could be better, but whatever you can't have everything. mind the walrus has a new favorite as of 16:34 on May 8, 2020 |
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May 8, 2020 16:32
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Kitty Pryde loves finding excuses to say the n-word. It lands exactly as flat every loving time:  She seems like the kind of person who would go out of her way to use niggardly in front of Storm and then give a lecture on its etymology with faux surprise that she didn't already know. Also Magneto turns good because at one point he's about to kill her and sees her Star of David necklace and suddenly realizes that if he kills everyone on Earth, Jews will die too, which is pretty lol.
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May 8, 2020 16:44
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Mid-80s "mature" X-Men is absolutely the worst kind and I'm including Chuck Austen, Scott Lobdell, and Rob Liefeld X-Men in that assessment. Speaking of TV-- did anyone actually ever watch that "Mutant X" show? How was it?    I'm still amazed they never got sued because they are not even trying to hide what a ripoff they are. I guess because this was around 2000 when Marvel was still recovering from bankruptcy?
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May 8, 2020 16:52
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It was 90s Vancouver as gently caress. Used that one fancy hydroelectric plant and everything. Wasn't it made by Marvel?
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May 8, 2020 16:53
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DrBouvenstein posted:Yeah, White Collar has the former criminal and FBI agent as the leads...I guess the criminal has more screen time, but they're definitely both leads, and you wouldn't struggle to think who the other was. The FBI agent isn't good looking though, so they can't mean him.
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May 8, 2020 16:56
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It was made by Avi Arad-- the megaproducer responsible for every Marvel project between 1998-2006, who founded Marvel Studios and still does Marvel work under the Sony umbrella (he was credited for Spider-verse). Wiki gives this: quote:On April 15, 2001, 20th Century Fox sued Marvel, Tribune Entertainment, and Fireworks Entertainment for breach of their licensing agreement and false advertisement. Fox stated it had exclusive rights from Marvel to develop the X-Men property, and anything similar was an infringement. Fox claimed that Mutant X was too similar to X-Men, and Mutant X was being advertised as an "X-Men replacement."[10] So it seems Marvel was totally aware and were getting some form of licensing money and playing all sides against each other, which would track with where they were in 2000-2001 (e.g: stable, but they didn't have that Raimi Spider-Man money yet).
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May 8, 2020 16:57
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Criminal minds had one of the most boring leads I've ever seen on tv. I don't know what his character name was though
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May 8, 2020 18:16
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sassassin posted:The FBI agent isn't good looking though, so they can't mean him. Lol Tim DeKay isn't good-looking, okay.
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May 8, 2020 18:29
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ilmucche posted:Criminal minds had one of the most boring leads I've ever seen on tv. I don't know what his character name was though The first season or however many that had Mandy Patinkin in them were good (solely because of him). The bland guy was Hotchner, and he was absolutely the most bland uninteresting cop in the history of television. He got written off the show because the actor was a violent baby who attacked a producer.
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May 8, 2020 18:46
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HopperUK posted:Lol Tim DeKay isn't good-looking, okay. He's not Matt Bomer good looking but very few men are.
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May 8, 2020 18:56
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Matt Bomer Cillian Murphy and Ian Somerhalder are evil clones. They look freakishly similar and kind of scary
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May 8, 2020 18:59
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sweet geek swag posted:The bland guy was Hotchner, and he was absolutely the most bland uninteresting cop in the history of television. He got written off the show because the actor was a violent baby who attacked a producer. Thomas Gibson has that habit where he is hired again and again, and almost every time his contract ends, we get news that he was a complete shithead. The actor has certain chevychasian aura, although Chevy *was* at one point internationally know movie comedian.
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May 8, 2020 19:11
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Funny thing about Matt Bomer re handsomeness is that he's also on the show Doom Patrol as Larry Trainor/Negative Man which means he spends almost all his time on screen either covered in bandages or under layers of gross looking makeup.
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May 8, 2020 19:28
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Der Kyhe posted:Thomas Gibson has that habit where he is hired again and again, and almost every time his contract ends, we get news that he was a complete shithead. The actor has certain chevychasian aura, although Chevy *was* at one point internationally know movie comedian. The funny thing is that Chevy Chase almost single-handedly saves an episode in the middle of the worst season of L&O, like we’d previously discussed. He plays a copy of Mel Gibson’s infamous anti-Semitic rants with some alcoholism works well, and Chase nails the performance well enough that he almost drags the infamously horrible police detective actress into the realm of okay acting.
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May 8, 2020 19:32
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Cleretic posted:Also, they probably made up for that misstep by fixing the Flash being weirdly conservative (boy THAT was a weird thing to find out was a consistent detail), just going super hard on the immigrant story in Supergirl, and sprinkling all those shows full of really solid LGBT characters. After all that, I can't be too mad that their Oliver Queen is probably a moderate 'believes the right things but not very strongly' Democrat. I've loved this piece about Captain America's publicist since I first rana cross it, https://idiopath-fic-smile.tumblr.com/post/117149098318/steve-rogers-pr-disaster-gen-4k
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May 8, 2020 19:33
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Arivia posted:The funny thing is that Chevy Chase almost single-handedly saves an episode in the middle of the worst season of L&O, like we’d previously discussed. He plays a copy of Mel Gibson’s infamous anti-Semitic rants with some alcoholism works well, and Chase nails the performance well enough that he almost drags the infamously horrible police detective actress into the realm of okay acting. Rewatching Community it's amazing how even though the stories themselves might back the character into a corner he never once failed to give the cameras a usable take that evinced a strong understanding of what the writing was going for. mllaneza posted:I've loved this piece about Captain America's publicist since I first rana cross it,
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May 8, 2020 20:14
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mind the walrus posted:Well yeah that's the cruel part about Chase. He's a shitbag but he is also good at his job. He's a talented physical actor, even in advanced age, with the experience and skill to deliver almost any line in the context needed for the project. Yeah, Chevy Chase is one of the shitbags who make a major argument about differentiating the art and the artist. Other notable example for this is Pablo Picasso; a complete tool-shead of dicks of a person and parent, but he *did* create a new style for modern art and was one of the big ones for reinventing their medium.
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May 8, 2020 20:45
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Everyone is a piece of poo poo with the only exception, possibly in the history of the world, being Fred Rogers.
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May 8, 2020 20:51
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