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Yeah here's my island after 8-ish actual hours of play (and lots of hours of idling) just chilling out. My next goal is getting trees set up for power and easy/non algae wood for basic circuits.
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May 6, 2020 19:52
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Wallrod posted:I made a tidy little self sufficient radar outpost that fits around a single pylon That's cute, I like it. Inventing these was a lot of fun for me. I'd built myself into trouble by allowing too many biters around me while being severely short on coal (this was before I realized how useful solar was). I had to fight hard to expand my base and little outposts like this eventually proved key. Mine were ugly and disorganized, but had walls and turrets and did their job of preventing more biters from nesting in previously cleared areas. It was fun to furiously iterate designs while working off meager ammo production, flickering lights and non-stop attacks. I never did finish that playthrough, stopped around when I started space science or whatever. Seeing that makes me want to take it up again though-- I never have launched a rocket.
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May 6, 2020 20:53
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Logistics is such a game changer. It's amazing how quickly things progress, and how quickly your factory your factory crashes to a stop due to lack of resources. Funny story. I'm at the final science chips in K2, and so I set up a fully beaconed bank of 10 quantum computers or whatever the final labs are. I had two nuclear reactors providing 650 MW with about 300 MW to spare. I plugged in the labs and insta-brownout. I built another 650 MW plant and plugged the labs... same result. Yet another 650 MW plant to get me back in the green again. I know that a 4 reactor plant is more efficient than 2x2 reactors. I just needed to get the base back online and pasting the existing plant was the easiest way of doing that.
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May 7, 2020 00:39
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Okay I'm getting into the Seablock, just having an endless pool of resources to pull from wherever I want is nice. No hunting down deposits, just grab some seawater and suck stuff out of it. No figuring out how to get resources A B and C to locations 4, 8 and 31. Just pull what I want. It will be nice and clean. Proceeds to build the spaghetti everywhere, making half-assed setup after half-assed setup as space expands. Okay, it will be neat...eventually. Just not now.
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May 7, 2020 21:11
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Bugfix for Electric Furnaces, stone and steel electric furnaces produce pollution again (old style of pollution definition was deprecated a while back and I didn't notice). Brought description on mod page up to date (including net and gross pollution levels).
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May 8, 2020 11:24
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Alkydere posted:Okay I'm getting into the Seablock, just having an endless pool of resources to pull from wherever I want is nice. No hunting down deposits, just grab some seawater and suck stuff out of it. No figuring out how to get resources A B and C to locations 4, 8 and 31. Just pull what I want. It will be nice and clean. It's the second build that will be neat, since I know now to tile and I've got an input/output per second idea in mind. Logistical problems occur just after the nicely tiled set of buildings solved by half-assing pipes and belts twining around each other Okay, the third build...
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May 8, 2020 17:15
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Sage Grimm posted:It's the second build that will be neat, since I know now to tile and I've got an input/output per second idea in mind. I've got a fuckton of landfill now and I've more or less solved my power issues for a good while because I finally figured out gardening and I ended up with a swamp and desert plant that just vomit out vegetable oil. I've also got basically space cotton that produces cellulose by the ton. So now I'm on the next rebuild of my factory. Seriously, for as much oil as I get, the "beans" these plants spit up better be a few hundred kilograms each.
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May 8, 2020 18:24
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...the FOURTH build replacing my swath of algae farms making charcoal pellets for a set of ~20 steam boiler mk2s and oh gently caress I'm back to spaghetti step one.  (This is fine, I redid my slag -> plates line to take advantage of mineral catalyst and they'll merrily churn out the four tier 1 plates + brick + tinned copper coils and solder until full while I'm puzzling that out)
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May 8, 2020 20:13
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Sage Grimm posted:...the FOURTH build replacing my swath of algae farms making charcoal pellets for a set of ~20 steam boiler mk2s and oh gently caress I'm back to spaghetti step one. Get yourself to gardening! Seriously! It took me a bit to figure it out but if you get your hands on plants that produce seeds, nuts or fruit you can solve your fuel problem super easy. They can all be pressed into raw vegetable oil. Filter that for vegetable oil and nutrient pulp, and refine those into fuel oil, base mineral oil and glycerol gas. The fuel oil will fill oil-fired boilers which are basically Mk 2 solid fuel boilers.  The top I have 12x zombieecalyptus farm plots (swamp plants: use heavy mud water + mud) and 6x Binafran farm plots (desert plant: use salt water + sand) to vomit out beans that are pressed into more fuel oil than my base can use right now. I straight up ripped up my old charcoal fueled boiler setup and converted them to oil burning and Mk 2 steam engines. The bottom is 8x Tianaton farm plots (temperate: dirt and water) that are basically space-cotton and produce piles upon piles of cellulose. For reference a plot takes a minute to produce 50 pieces of tianaton, and 20 pieces is 22 cellulose. Alkydere fucked around with this message at 20:54 on May 8, 2020 |
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May 8, 2020 20:50
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Do you still need to hunt for plants, or is there now a way to win the game with just seawater?
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May 9, 2020 05:44
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Technically you can just turn blue algae into "Multi-phase oil" forever, I'm pretty sure you can get everything out of that or other petrochem synthesis. I just find Angel's Petrochem/semi-realistic organic chemistry a nightmare myself.
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May 9, 2020 05:51
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I'm really enjoying Krastorio 2. The added complexity isn't overwhelming and it looks like most intermediate products are limited to only 4 steps which helps it from becoming tedious. I also really like the pollution filtration and how you can build a huge base without disturbing biters. Krastorio does so many things right but they get a couple of things wrong in my opinion. It looks like the tier 4 belt tech becomes available right after tier 3 so you can basically skip blue belts. The funny thing is that Items are generally built so slowly that you don't really benefit from high throughput until you start going all in on modules and beacons. I also think I could do without the radiation damage. It's not a problem overall but playing nuclear fuel cell hot potato when trying to fuel your power armor is just silly. Finally, I feel like they went overboard with the petroleum gas requirements for plastic. It's looking like I'm going to have to scale up to megabase levels of oil production just to fill one red belt with plastic.
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May 9, 2020 19:09
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I have most products and components mostly on the Y axis and liquids/gases/petroleum products and components mostly on the X axis, with some mixing in both directions. I grossly underestimated how much space I would need on my Y axis and it's turning into a glorious spaghetti.
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May 9, 2020 19:21
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So...starting a THIRD seablock game because I hosed up and overrode my save. Basically hopped on a modded server with friends, hopped off, didn't reset my version/files and my map ended up deleted. And then by reflex I saved before quitting out.  .On the plus side...I found out that if you fiddle with the settings in Seablock you can end up with an island to work with. So with actual real estate to work with it's now less "stranded at sea" and more "tropical island vacation" as I cut my way through the jungle.
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May 10, 2020 06:53
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There are never enough red circuits. Why are there never enough red circuits.
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May 10, 2020 15:40
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Half-wit posted:There are never enough red circuits. Why are there never enough red circuits. Because you're not making enough to realise you never have enough green circuits. I wonder how much of a typical factory's total resource input goes to circuits at some point or other. I'm sure someone's done the maths on that.
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May 10, 2020 15:45
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Tenebrais posted:Because you're not making enough to realise you never have enough green circuits. My last playthrough was accelerated significantly when I took an iron and a copper deposit, each of which were about the size of the total deposits supporting my entire base (mall, research, and main bus) to that point, and ran them through on-site smelting to a dedicated green chip only factory. Eventually you get to the point where whole bases dedicated to shipping chips by trains become viable.
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May 10, 2020 15:56
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Breetai posted:My last playthrough was accelerated significantly when I took an iron and a copper deposit, each of which were about the size of the total deposits supporting my entire base (mall, research, and main bus) to that point, and ran them through on-site smelting to a dedicated green chip only factory. Scaling up circuit production to support module production is what usually marks my transition from a bus base to a distributed train base.
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May 10, 2020 17:35
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In K2, does multiple applications of the virus stack? I released the kill biters/reduce evolution virus and it seems to be doing the job. I tried releasing a second dose but I don't think it's doing anything. Just curious. One thing the virus does kill is your framerate/UPS. The game stutters like crazy now. I read that it's supposed to go back to normal after it finishes.
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May 10, 2020 18:25
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My understanding is the virus sets a script to run every so often, which does a little bit of biter deleting and then leaves the rest for next time. It doesn't do it all at once because that would hang the game entirely until it's done.
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May 11, 2020 00:32
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So I finally gave Seablock a try and goddamn, it's a disaster. Once you get to logistics 2, you need bronze, which can only be made with Angel's smelting, which is completely incompatible with anything you've done before because now everything is ingots instead of plates, and those have to be made with vanilla ore instead of the Bob's ores, so now you need ore sorting and sushi belts and it's just tedious bullshit where you have to rip up half your base for no reason and I don't have nearly enough power for any of that. It feels like nobody cared about how the game feels to play or any progression and just threw a bunch of poo poo together that doesn't really work. Here's the base, if anyone cares. 
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May 11, 2020 04:08
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It's a pretty natural progression? Instead of plumbing your mixed ores directly into smelters, you landfill out a bunch of stuff ahead of your smelters and add a sorting stage. If anything it's easier in seablock because you can just extend out in that direction, instead of needing to add it between your existing mines and your existing factory. E: rereading, I guess maybe you skipped the "sorting, but still using regular smelting" stage? I guess if you never did that and just stuck with the inefficient recipes for as long as possible then you'd have to rebuild your smelting at the same time as you add sorting, which would be an annoyingly big overhaul. Jabor fucked around with this message at 04:27 on May 11, 2020 |
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May 11, 2020 04:24
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Jabor posted:It's a pretty natural progression? Instead of plumbing your mixed ores directly into smelters, you landfill out a bunch of stuff ahead of your smelters and add a sorting stage. Vanilla Factorio gets this right - it never forces you to abandon what you've built. It demands you build exponentially more of it, but it never says "Okay, now you can't use this furnace setup any more because the products are literally useless." I don't enjoy designing something to scale and then the game going "Oh, that was only the temporary way to build it - now you have to do it this other way." It's annoying and gives no sense of progression. I'm okay with alternate recipes being more complex but more efficient, but I JUST built that smelter array and now the game is making me tear it down and replace it with induction furnaces. There's no reason the mod doesn't include a bronze recipe using mixing furnaces except to say gently caress you. I'm done - I'll go play something else. Edit: This is on top of me never feeling like I actually got to build anything because I spent the entire game fighting with power and trying to feed the drat furnaces and now it's all "Haha, here's another 10MW worth of poo poo to power, sucker." What the hell am I going to do with that big arboretum setup I made just to make the coal for the smelting furnaces now? KillHour fucked around with this message at 04:39 on May 11, 2020 |
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May 11, 2020 04:33
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KillHour posted:Edit: This is on top of me never feeling like I actually got to build anything because I spent the entire game fighting with power and trying to feed the drat furnaces and now it's all "Haha, here's another 10MW worth of poo poo to power, sucker." What the hell am I going to do with that big arboretum setup I made just to make the coal for the smelting furnaces now? Feed it into boilers to ramp your power even further? You always needed energy for smelting, electric smelting just lets you do the burning somewhere that isn't your smelting column. But yeah, the core conceit of Seablock is having to make efficient use of space, and tearing down and rebuilding old modules when you unlock the tech for new ones is a big part of that gameplay loop. If you want a big sprawling base where you just build new stuff next to the old then you might be happier with a more traditional biters-and-ore-patches set of mods.
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May 11, 2020 04:51
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If thats how you feel about the genius logistics puzzle that is Angels Ores and Angels Petrochem, I don't think seablock is the challenge modpack for you. 100's of hours into seablock and you're finally able to start building real machines that do real work. Seablock is an idle clicker for Factorio Fans. Also sounds like you're missing half of the available production chains for some reason. Use FNEI to find out you don't have to rip up half your base.
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May 11, 2020 04:59
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Jabor posted:Feed it into boilers to ramp your power even further? I'd buy that if I didn't have 3 sets of washers running overnight leaving me with 50k+ sand that I can use to pave the world if I want. I think the big problem is just the sprawl - there are 5 ways to do everything and none of it aligns. I played Bob's back in the day and it was just Factorio but more. There were a lot more steps, but there was always a clear "next thing to do." Now it's bob-angels-whatever and it's everything and the kitchen sink, except not everything quite works with each other. Now I have all this farming stuff and I don't know what I'm supposed to do with it because it doesn't make anything I need. I have stuff unlocked out of order because the power situation is a mess and figuring out how to combine lumps of charcoal together into something with more than 4MJ of energy is apparently some advanced witchcraft that required me to burn halfway down the oil tree by pocket crafting green science while I watched Youtube videos for an hour and a half. I don't even have green circuits automated yet because nothing needs enough of them for me to run through the 500 basic components I made 10 hours ago. poo poo just generally doesn't line up. Why are there multiple recipes for things with the same name but different icons that can't be used interchangeably? What's the difference between ingots and plates and why do I care? Why do some recipes produce stuff so fast the machine idles 90% of the time but others need 10 machines just to make a decent dent? Why did green science immediately unlock literally several dozen technologies, none of which I know if I will need now or in 50 hours? I like the premise of the mod, but there needs to be an actual logical and intuitive progression and not just "Hope you like spending 5 minutes actually building and 5 hours figuring out what you're supposed to be building and/or waiting for a progress bar to fill." I don't even know what the hell I'm supposed to be doing. This feels like a mod for people whose hobbies include "Memorizing the first 10,000 digits of pi" and "Solving the traveling salesman problem on a map of Europe by hand." M_Gargantua posted:If thats how you feel about the genius logistics puzzle that is Angels Ores and Angels Petrochem, I don't think seablock is the challenge modpack for you. 100's of hours into seablock and you're finally able to start building real machines that do real work. Seablock is an idle clicker for Factorio Fans. Bob's is great. Angels is loving terrible. I used FNEI to look up bronze plates and there is exactly one recipe for it. KillHour fucked around with this message at 05:13 on May 11, 2020 |
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May 11, 2020 05:07
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 A few things: - I obviously hate myself and want to be miserable. - This is not more space efficient than a block of furnaces of the same capacity. Not even close. - This might be more input-efficient, but inputs are effectively unlimited because Seablock - My iron output is now limited by how much copper I can use or store, which is the worst thing ever. - If I ever have to rip this out and replace it, I'm going to go into a fell mood and make a legendary factory from Bob's skin. It will menace with spikes of Bob's bones.
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May 11, 2020 09:38
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It strikes me that seablock is for masochists who want to play factorio while at the same time metaphorically experiencing the sensation of having nails hammered into their scrotums, but who lack the wherewithal or willing partner to wield the hammer. It sounds like a miserable experience, even when described by its fans.
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May 11, 2020 10:20
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Splitters are good. You can use them for filtering instead of needing inserters, and you can also set them to prioritize using the copper from your iron smelting (and vice versa).
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May 11, 2020 11:35
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I just started on the last science pack in K2 and it instantly crippled my base... again. Shortages EVERYWHERE. I've been playing so much Factorio lately it's invading my dreams Tetris style.
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May 11, 2020 12:28
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The singularity tech card is brutal. Upshot is all the sand you get from imersite powder can replace a lot of stone crushing.
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May 11, 2020 14:44
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KillHour posted:- I obviously hate myself and want to be miserable.  
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May 11, 2020 14:45
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Makes you think about how much stuff goes into a modern motherboard, cpu, memory, etc. I don't have a problem with seablock or angels. It's not about 'efficient use of space'. It's about progression from less efficient processes to more efficient processes, with tons of alternates. Killhour, do note that the basic ore smelting is quite inefficient. The angels big smelting stuff is 1:1 ore to ingots, and it progresses up to 150% and 200% efficiency as you progress. I highly recommend getting Helmod or an equivalent for playing with those, in addition to FNEI (although it should be bundled in the seablock pack).
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May 11, 2020 14:56
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KillHour posted:- My iron output is now limited by how much copper I can use or store, which is the worst thing ever. A quick consumer of copper would be building a warehouse load of copper pipes and their underground equivalents. But if you do want to be independent of copper consumption, you have to switch over to using catalysts. Which I'd suggest doing eventually because you won't be needing the tin and lead byproducts of silicon and something else (zinc?) for a while.
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May 11, 2020 14:57
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Sage Grimm posted:you have to switch over to using catalysts. Akkfsbsugsjwffsunsneuejejjejhegeh I don't even have that poo poo unlocked yet don't tell me I have to redo all this.
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May 11, 2020 15:24
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The first time I played Factorio everything you are describing with K2 happened, I think we are all just pretty numb to the challenges of being really new. Unless someone is guiding you the "at least double it every time you expand" and ratios just aren't part of your knowledge. The first rocket I launched I absolutely limped there because I just didn't understand how red, and eventually blue circuits eating red/green were going to just rip through my production. Now I quickly sketch out around how many SPM I want from the setup and make sure I can support it, I do off site smelting or circuit production, it's just habit. K2 isn't perfect (but vanilla has gone through 3 years of balancing) but it's pretty drat good. KillHour posted:Akkfsbsugsjwffsunsneuejejjejhegeh sounds like youd enjoy it a lot more with an "early robots" start pack. just the ability to cut/paste sounds like it would improve your experience 1000x fold. IMO once you are moving on to the torture packs you have nothing left to prove by hand placing poo poo, but I get that one of the 'rewards' of these painful mods is finally getting toward "real" factorio abilities.
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May 11, 2020 15:25
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There's no point to having a robot place any of that when pocket crafting each building is a good 2 minutes of time. More when you're waiting for all the steel and brick. Also, the inputs are so complicated, you can't just copy and paste - none of those rows are the same. You really spend more time actually planning what has to go where than placing any of it.
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May 11, 2020 15:31
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KillHour posted:There's no point to having a robot place any of that when pocket crafting each building is a good 2 minutes of time. More when you're waiting for all the steel and brick. Also, the inputs are so complicated, you can't just copy and paste - none of those rows are the same. You really spend more time actually planning what has to go where than placing any of it. ahh gotcha i have not played it because i value my free time greatly and prefer to be engaged rather than tortured  tbh it seems worse than dark souls type difficulty which everyone always says is at least rewarding when you finally pull something off because it feels like a feat of skill.
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May 11, 2020 15:45
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Dark Souls is a good game that actually had thought put into the design. Angelbobs is made by people who enjoy making mod content more than they enjoy playing the game and played by people who get sexual pleasure from spreadsheets and flowcharts. Also masochists like me with something to prove. I may add a universal solid item void to save my sanity or just allow clarifiers to get rid of molten metal. KillHour fucked around with this message at 15:52 on May 11, 2020 |
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May 11, 2020 15:50
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You should definitely slap down assemblers that just make all the intermediate components for you to grab so you're not handcrafting every goddamn little thing. Otherwise you'll go insane. Even more than you are already.
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May 11, 2020 15:54
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