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charity rereg posted:K2 isn't perfect (but vanilla has gone through 3 years of balancing) but it's pretty drat good. Oh, yeah. I was planning out as well, but it still felt like getting to rockets the first time. I think K2 is really well done. I still haven't charged the singularity machine 
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May 11, 2020 15:54
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I would just go insane trying to keep them supplied with raw materials instead. Also power and space limitations. I put down temporary stuff for some things. Honestly, I'm usually just loving waiting for iron and green science.
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May 11, 2020 15:55
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KillHour posted:Vanilla Factorio gets this right - it never forces you to abandon what you've built. It demands you build exponentially more of it, but it never says "Okay, now you can't use this furnace setup any more because the products are literally useless." Vanilla Factorio does have 3 tiers of furnaces, and not only do the old ones become obsolete as you unlock the next tier, but the 3 tiers have to be crafted individually.. they don't upgrade from one to another. None of the products in Seablock are 'literally useless', or become such. They're always useful in some way from early to late game.
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May 11, 2020 16:30
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Ambaire posted:Vanilla Factorio does have 3 tiers of furnaces, and not only do the old ones become obsolete as you unlock the next tier, but the 3 tiers have to be crafted individually.. they don't upgrade from one to another. But you don't have to use them until you're ready. You can stick with the beginning furnaces until the end of the game if you want. It's not like the other furnace tiers are capable of making different items than the tier 1. They're just faster. They also replace cleanly without replacing anything before or after the furnace array.
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May 11, 2020 16:39
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KillHour posted:But you don't have to use them until you're ready. You can stick with the beginning furnaces until the end of the game if you want. It's not like the other furnace tiers are capable of making different items than the tier 1. They're just faster. They also replace cleanly without replacing anything before or after the furnace array. Electric aren't even faster and are totally, 100% unnecessary to finish the game. They're there for beacons and modules, which are only necessary at all at larger scale for size/ups issues, or to allow you to burn your fuel elsewhere or use solar.
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May 11, 2020 16:57
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Electric is also 3x3 so you can't cleanly upgrade.
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May 11, 2020 17:21
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ymgve posted:Electric is also 3x3 so you can't cleanly upgrade. Depends on how it's structured. If your fuel line was on the furnace side, you can strip that out and replace a row of 3 steel furnaces with 2 electric. That's still more than just an upgrade planner job though.
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May 11, 2020 17:31
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That is the most inconsequential thing ever compared to the amount of rejiggering literally everything in seablock needs to keep working. I don't mind replacing buildings or even entire sections - that's the game. I mind spending all day on something and tearing it down literally a couple hours later.
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May 11, 2020 17:33
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Canuckistan posted:I just started on the last science pack in K2 and it instantly crippled my base... again. Shortages EVERYWHERE. I've been playing so much Factorio lately it's invading my dreams Tetris style. Not a Singularity Cards but Singularity Labs did this poo poo to me, I slapped down twelve with feeds, queued up research that had been on hold while I worked up cards and feeds, then went off to Maginot off some choke points so I could rip out an awkward line of mostly dumb-chest-fed defensive positions based on emplacements originally positioned during Hour Three, and got confused when construction drone flow petered out to almost nothing but there were still 12k available drones in the system. poo poo, the labs are drawing more current than everything else in the base, unless laser turrets try to engage ~ Fortunately automating fuel rods into an active provider chest and forgetting about it gives you some options in terms of extensibility, but I had to hand make five windmills per two new reactors, to bootstrap the offshore pumps. The last thing I need to do before charging the Stargate and dialing home is set up fusion and antimatter power since just slapping down 60TW of nuclear, while on brand for me, skips intended systems and if I come back it will likely be more focused on preplanning for scale or not be single player.
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May 11, 2020 18:03
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I got a single matter creator up to nearly a GW of power draw. Those late game buildings love to suck down some joules.
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May 11, 2020 18:08
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Saw someone mention how they ended up with a bunch of plants in Seablock and didn't know what to do with them (Probably KIllHour in one of his frustrated rants but I can't find it again) so I think I'll make a quick post breaking down Angel's plants. Basically the plants produce fuel oil, fermentation base (does a few interesting things if you're really into chemistry), nutrient paste, cellulose and crystal slurry. Oh and...food for animals I guess? Fuel Oil Probably the easiest and most important resource plants will produce. Just about all of them have some way to be converted to fuel but what you really want is any plant that produce Nuts, Pips, Fruits or Beans. Any of these will be pressed down into Raw Vegetable Oil. Filter that in a Filtration unit like you would slag or mineral slurry and you get a mixture of Vegetable Oil and Nutrient Pulp. An oil refinery will turn Vegetable Oil into Fuel Oil that can be used as is in oil burning furnaces and generators (1 unit = 1 MJ of power) and a bit of Raw Mineral Oil which has other uses (or can just be burned off). Filtering of Raw Vegetable oil: -Charcoal: 100 Raw Veggetable + 100 Purified water = 160 Vegetable Oil + 40 Nutrient Pulp -Ceramic: 100 Raw Vegetable Oil + 100 Purified Water = 180 Vegetable Oil + 20 Nutrient Pulp Vegetable Oil Refining: -100 Vegetable Oil = 70 Fuel Oil + 30 Raw Mineral Oil. The next, not quite as efficient way to produce fuel is via Nutrient Pulp. It's already created as a side effect of filtering Vegetable Oil but anything that produces Leaves or, even better, Corn can be converted to Nutrient Pulp. Which can be further refined into fuel in a Gas Refinery. -100 Nutrient Pulp = 40 Fuel Oil + 40 Acetone + 20 Synthesis Gas -100 Nutrient Pulp = 60 Fuel Oil + 40 Glycerol (used mainly in crafting explosives so probably shove it all into a flare stack). Cellulose Obviously by now you've realized that Cellulose is a major and important resource in Seablock. The easiest way to produce it is via Green Algae. The next way is via Wood/Arboretums. Many farm crops produce some cellulose as a byproduct but one specific crop (Tianaton) is dedicated to producing cellulose and is perhaps the single best cellulose producer in the game. -5 Tianaton Seed + 5 Soil + 50 Water = 40-60 (Average 50) Tianaton. Craft time: 120 seconds in base farm, 60 seconds in Temperate Upgrade farm. 20 Tianaton: 22 cellulose. So a generic farm plot will produce on average 55 cellulose every 2 minutes, or 27.5/minute. Fermentation Base Corn or Fruit can be rendered down into Fermentation Base. Fermentation Base produces Acetic Acid or Ethanol Gas if you need either of those. Both are the seeds for chemicals required to make Plastic which can be nifty. Crystal Slurry Four of the more advanced crops (Nilaubergine, Nexaflax, Arumbaphila, Kendallion) produce a handful of Crystal Dust as a side effect. Convert that to Crystal Slurry and you can filter it into more Mineral Slurry to turn into raw materials. Food? If you really, really want to you can use Nutrient Pulp to feed animals. Most of them will just provide Meat and Sulfuric Wastewater, and Meat is used feed Biters for...stuff? I haven't looked down that line of production much and it mainly looks like they can be converted into crystals for crystal slurry fun. Alternatively, Nutrient pulp can feed Puffers which provide a variety of interesting chemicals. Types of plants Plants break down into 3 types. Desert, Temperate and Swamp. -Desert Plants: Need Saline Water and Sand as dirt. -Temperate Plants: normal Water and Soil (mud + Compost) as dirt -Swamp Plants: Heavy Mud Water and Mud. Desert Plants are the easiest to get ahold of (spawn in the greatest numbers closets to the player) while Swamp Plants are probably the easiest to supply. Some of the more advanced/productive plants also require Fertilizer which is Compost + Urea gas. The easiest source for the Ammonia is by producing Blue Algae. How do I get Plants? On the small islands nearby your starting point you'll see Desert, Temperate and Swamp Gardens. Shove these into a Seed Extractor and the fun can begin. The Seed Extractor can either produce Exploration Tokens required for Farm Beaker or upgrading farm plots, or it can produce seeds. The first few Gardens you get are probably best used for pure Token gain to get you the beakers to get Basic and Advanced farming of the type you want. So if you have a handful of Desert Gardens, you turn the first 3 into 32 tokens each. Then turn those tokens into Garden beakers to research basic and advanced Desert Gardening. Any remaining Desert Gardens can be used to (slowly) grow more Desert Gardens (a process that gives you more tokens), that you can then tear apart for seeds (which produces more tokens) until you have a full set. Use the extra tokens to produce the Garden Beakers needed for the rest of the research, and then to upgrade your generic farms to specialized farms. TREES! There are also Desert, Temperate and Swamp versions of the trees you can find. These can be either grown/harvested for generic wood (an excellent source of Cellulose) OR they can be used as shortcuts to produce Resin, Plastic and Rubber with a handful of extra wood as a useful byproduct. Why do your own complex and confusing organic chemistry when nature provides these useful, nifty self-propagating nanomachine colonies known as "plants"? Temperate Trees generate Bio-Resin Swamp Trees generate Bio-Plastic Desert Trees generate Bio-Rubber. Bio-Plastic and Bio-Rubber both convert into Liquid Resin and Rubber with the addition of Acetone gas. Bio-Resin requires Ethanol Gas. Both of these can be provided by cracking Nutrient Pulp in a gas refinery.
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May 11, 2020 21:12
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The only thing about seablock that really 'gets' me is just how daunting each tier of stuff is. It doesn't feel like you have smaller goals to use intermediates on - there's no 'ok, use brass now, and itll give you 20% more <whatever> on the way to red chips', it just says 'ok, you made green chips, now for the red ones you need brass, cobalt steel, ferric acid, resin, etc, etc, etc,' and the stuff that also uses those goods is gated behind the chip that uses all of it. Instead of A -> AB -> ABC it goes A->ABC->B/C. I'm enjoying it still having just gotten automated red chips, but every time I move up a tier it's just so daunting that it makes me not want to bother. I end up setting my own intermediate goals (Ok, now I'll get resin!), but those goals don't give me anything tangible other than having that checklist item available for when all the rest of the checklist is done.
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May 11, 2020 23:17
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charity rereg posted:Electric aren't even faster and are totally, 100% unnecessary to finish the game. They're there for beacons and modules, which are only necessary at all at larger scale for size/ups issues, or to allow you to burn your fuel elsewhere or use solar. Steel furnaces require fuel, electric furnaces don't care how you get the electricity.
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May 12, 2020 11:06
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Hey GotLag, I want to try out your nuclear fuel mod. I also happen to really like playing with Realistic Power (that really does no genuinely interesting things, it just nerfs the hell out of power generation). As someone who understands very little of how mods work, would using your mod "override" that and make my reactors vanilla-level overpowered?
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May 12, 2020 21:48
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Okay a bit more on Archangel's Bioprocessing plants... Desert, Temperate and Swamps are definitely tier 1, 2 and 3 in terms of productivity. 16 Desert Upgrade farms with Binafrin gave me about 1K fuel oil/minute. Good but I was constantly bumping up against my power limitations. Slap down only 6 Swamp Upgrade farms with Elendilomone plants and I jump up to 2.2K fuel oil until my oil storage started to fill up.
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May 12, 2020 23:28
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Dancer posted:Hey GotLag, I want to try out your nuclear fuel mod. I also happen to really like playing with Realistic Power (that really does no genuinely interesting things, it just nerfs the hell out of power generation). As someone who understands very little of how mods work, would using your mod "override" that and make my reactors vanilla-level overpowered? A quick glance suggests it should be - Nuclear Fuel doesn't touch reactors themselves, and Realistic Power does not appear to modify the fuels.
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May 13, 2020 00:10
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GotLag posted:Steel furnaces require fuel, electric furnaces don't care how you get the electricity. In addition to this, electric furnaces can receive efficiency upgrades, reducing their power usage to 20%. I've been putting efficiency modules in everything in my Krastorio2 base and it makes a huge difference.
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May 13, 2020 08:49
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The only complaint I have about Krastorio2 is that I haven't found any rare metals deposits. Then again i am playing in a ribbon world
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May 13, 2020 09:39
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GotLag posted:Steel furnaces require fuel, electric furnaces don't care how you get the electricity. charity rereg posted:Electric aren't even faster and are... to allow you to burn your fuel elsewhere or use solar.
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May 13, 2020 14:45
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GotLag posted:A quick glance suggests it should be - Nuclear Fuel doesn't touch reactors themselves, and Realistic Power does not appear to modify the fuels. Alas, the mod does change fuel values. I'll see if I can figure out this modding thing, the change required should be trivial. On an unrelated note, when I started my latest factory, I decided to challenge myself to embrace slap-dashery and spaghetti until I got all 6 sciences running. I've achieved that now, and I reckoned there's a chance y'all might enjoy seeing the result: 
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May 13, 2020 16:37
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Those solar fields are glorious. It's almost like you just waved the mouse about randomly to place them..but then you notice the slight diagonal lines.
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May 13, 2020 18:36
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I feel ill
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May 13, 2020 21:33
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I like it. Itches that "complicated but not random" part of my brain.
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May 13, 2020 22:54
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ConfusedUs posted:Those solar fields are glorious. It's almost like you just waved the mouse about randomly to place them..but then you notice the slight diagonal lines. It's basically the best tesselation around a single point (i.e. a medium electric pole) provided you don't mind the edges being messy compared to anything else.
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May 13, 2020 23:00
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Dancer posted:Alas, the mod does change fuel values. I'll see if I can figure out this modding thing, the change required should be trivial. Ah, I found the bit I missed when I scanned over it yesterday. It'll be fine, its changes will reduce the fuel values for Nuclear Fuel in line with all the others.
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May 13, 2020 23:49
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I have only had 1-1.5 hours to play K2 2-3 times a week in the morning. It really helps to keep from getting burnt out by only working on a project or two each play session. I was a little upset once I finally got material science cards set up and realized most of the earlier cards were then obsolete. I should have payed more attention when the basic tech cards went obsolete and looked at the tech tree better.
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May 14, 2020 00:00
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Dancer posted:Alas, the mod does change fuel values. I'll see if I can figure out this modding thing, the change required should be trivial. I quite like your overall layout. It's different but not that disorderly. I find that in my own factories, if I deviate from a bus it quickly becomes absolute chaos
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May 14, 2020 05:49
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Since I'm still learning Krastorio2 (only discovered the mod about a week ago), I eschewed a main bus in favor of tunneling science and not much else. Got buffers for components so hand crafting stuff isn't too much of a pain. Behold, the glory. Do note the lovely Aircraft gunship I'm sitting in, as well as Klonan's mining drones.  Full mod list: Aircraft, ArmouredBiters, AutoDeconstruct, Clockwork (4x day length, pitch black night), Construction Drones, EvoGUI, FNEI, Factorissimo2, Fill4Me, Flow Control, FluidMustFlow, Hovercrafts, Krastorio2, Mining Drones, Orphan Finder, Repair Turret, Squeak Through, Teleporters, Transport Drones, Vehicle Snap, AAI Industry / Programmable Structures / Programmable Vehicles / Signal Transmission / Signals / Vehicles (all of them) (first time using AAI, holy gently caress this RTS stuff is amazing), Alien biomes, Bullet Trails, Grappling Gun, Helmod, Jetpack, Robot Attrition, Space Exploration.
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May 14, 2020 09:46
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ConfusedUs posted:Those solar fields are glorious. It's almost like you just waved the mouse about randomly to place them..but then you notice the slight diagonal lines. They're super basic, but I was really satisfied with myself when I figured out my templates for both solar fields and accumulators. The non-straight edges are a feature, not a bug: after all, fields exist to be expanded! They look particularly nice on the mini map, with pleasant diagonal lines.   If you don't mind being wasteful with medium power poles (which I unfortunately do mind), you can do the same tessellation I use for solar panels with both. This uses double the poles, but the accumulators can now form 6x6 blocks, like the solar panels do, thus making them interchangeable. 
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May 14, 2020 11:24
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GotLag posted:Ah, I found the bit I missed when I scanned over it yesterday. It'll be fine, its changes will reduce the fuel values for Nuclear Fuel in line with all the others. That's pretty cool, thanks!
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May 14, 2020 11:25
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I got back into Factorio last night, after many months away. I'm still a beginner though-- I've never launched a rocket. I came back to my base and found it in a sorry state. Pollution overlapping many biter nests outside my territory, with frequent attacks on my defenses; generally spaghetti throughoutt most of my base; whats looking like a severe shortage of copper as one of my original fields runs dry; wooden power poles, yellow belts, wood fueling my car/tank; manually needing to ferry resources around for various production steps; personal bots but no serious use of logistical bots; poo poo I'm not even automating bot production... And so forth. I remembered why I stopped: I discovered that space science was a product of, instead of requirement for, launching rockets. I've got hundreds of blue chips banked and the other resources didn't seem too hard to get-- once launching a rocket seemed totally within my reach I lost interest. But then I played 5 hours last night, and there is so much to do!
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May 14, 2020 14:22
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Well, huh. You definitely want to move into farming in Seablock immediately for your power gen. Here's a comparison of charcoal from algae to basic farms with swamp mudapples. Two saturated yellow belts of green algae can pump out enough charcoal pellets to fuel 7 and 2/3rds mk2 boilers forever with 15.33 mk2 steam engines. That requires exactly 45 mk2 Algae farms, as well as using up ~6-7MW of power produced.  Ignore the bean fields, that was a prototype setup and their output is not a factor for the oil boilers. If we consider only the vegetable oil produced, then 15 basic fields of mudapples are enough to supply 5 oil boilers and 15 mk2 steam engines while being self-sustaining with a seed loop. It also uses less than a full MW to operate and there's extra nutrient pulp to convert into more fuel oil if we wanted to reduce the number of fields needed
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May 15, 2020 20:42
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Yeah I think nearly everyone starts out trying with Binafrin because it's likely gonna be one of the first seeds you get. Beans process okay into vegetable oil but unless you get Zombieecalyptus (swamp beans) they're better off being used for pulp directly. Anything that produces Nuts or Pips are far better fuel sources than Beans. I went and made myself a quick spreadsheet for the plants as reference because I got tired flipping through the NEI (helpful it is, but there's a lot of clicking when trying to compare stuff). Anything that gives "dormant seeds" is going to take a while to set up since there's only a 5% chance every seed reactivation to give an extra seed back. Swamp stuff is going to just be somewhat better because their base craft time is 45 seconds as to everything else's 60 seconds.
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May 15, 2020 21:05
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I've been thinking about firing Factorio back up again recently and I'm going to finally go for it. I haven't played since before they changed the tech tree, so I'm going to go mostly vanilla for now, but I still want some QOL mods installed. Off of the top of my head, I'm going for: HONK Renamer Explosive Excavation Miniloaders YARM Factorio Reach Quickstart Factorissimo (I just love these stupid things) Are there any other obvious ones you could suggest? I'm obviously trying not to go for anything that seriously overhauls the tech tree or anything like that, just trying to make getting back into the game as straightforward as possible. I look at Seablock like I look at Dwarf Fortress: I'm interested, but I know I get more enjoyment out of reading other peoples' stories about playing it than I would out of trying it myself. EDIT: Also FARL, though it won't let me install it through the game's built-in Mods menu, which is otherwise amazing Ignoranus fucked around with this message at 16:14 on May 16, 2020 |
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May 16, 2020 16:10
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Even Distribution is the new QOL hotness
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May 16, 2020 16:15
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I can't play without Side Inserters but then that's my mod so I may not have a completely unbiased view
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May 16, 2020 16:40
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Squeak Through Disco Science Squeak lets you maneuver around tight builds and pipes easier. And disco science just looks cool.
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May 16, 2020 16:52
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I’m loving the hell out of the _____ Drones mods. Construction drones is like early-game construction robots. Super handy, not massively game changing. Mining drones probably too good, but it’s awesome to just drop down one building, stuff it with drones, and watch it clear an ore patch. Transport drones are just too much fun. I’m starting to build a base that’s designed kind of like a city, with roads for the drones and areas “zoned” (in my head) for certain types of production.
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May 16, 2020 17:07
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Mining Drones not taking any power is a bit of a cheat but honestly except for that they're probably just fine balance-wise. Instead of spending a bunch of resources building mining drills and then manually slapping them down, you put a similar amount of resources into mining drones. It's just less hassle.
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May 16, 2020 17:43
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These are all great, thanks! I'm really interested to start messing around with the Drones mods, too, they're such a departure from the typical setup.
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May 16, 2020 17:58
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