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psiox posted:imo the aws cli makes a lot of sense and at least it's easy to deal with json from a normal-rear end shell that isn't trying to be more than a shell powershells json support is pretty drat strong though, just pipe through ConvertFrom-JSON and you get an actually structured object (or a stream of them if an array) you can then actually safely operate on (e.g. selects and aggregates and whatnot) i mean, again, powershell is not very nice, but as far as microsoft things go it is way more fit for purpose than a lot of their server admin tools of the past. obviously no for-fun linux user will touch it much, but e.g. to manage azure it is not weird at all to have the port.
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May 17, 2020 19:58
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multiple people have tried to make "structured shells" a thing to various degrees of unsuccess. plain text sucks as an interface but we're gonna be grepping and cutting and awking until the day we die
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May 17, 2020 20:04
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:installed the linux this happened to me today it's good to see that linux desktop hasn't made progress in 6 years lmao
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May 17, 2020 20:12
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for some reason the nvidia control panel has decided that one of my monitors should be fixed at 30hz until i toggle a setting and nothing i do to try to get it to stick across reboots works good think i only pop in occasionally and just use windows on it most of the time
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May 17, 2020 20:25
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blink polyfill posted:this happened to me today graphics driver woes are the pillar of the desktop Linux experience, even more so than the audio and WiFi problems. it is a constant.
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May 17, 2020 22:02
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Tankakern posted:haha composting State of the Linux on the desktop 2020: slowly composting
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May 17, 2020 22:19
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Optimus_Rhyme posted:There's always this aaAgh
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May 18, 2020 22:05
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but can it execute vbscript
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May 19, 2020 05:50
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sed 's@HKLM@/etc/@g'
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May 19, 2020 06:08
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PowerShell has exceptions and it can awkwardly use generics. Suck it golang.
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May 19, 2020 06:15
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are these two things competition in your mind
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May 19, 2020 06:36
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they're both used by tedious posters
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May 19, 2020 06:55
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psiox posted:i've personally written all kinds of glue for this sort of thing in shell script that is readable and maintainable.  psiox posted:but i have a feeling that the kinds of people that are writing powershell to manage their cloud resources are prone to all kinds of layering violations and/or being dumbasses in general the main difference between bash and powershell is that powershell has a debugger everything else is cosmetic
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May 19, 2020 07:20
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Suspicious Dish posted:multiple people have tried to make "structured shells" a thing to various degrees of unsuccess. plain text sucks as an interface but we're gonna be grepping and cutting and awking until the day we die grepping cutting and awking is fine until you try to plumb them together using a programming language with no debugger or sdk if your main problem is calling grep cut and awk and piping poo poo around maybe you should move your bash commands into a p-lang script the p-lang script will be much more debug-able even if you are just aggregating unix pipeline inputs/outputs
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May 19, 2020 07:21
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my main problem with powershell is that it was clearly designed by people who never used a CLI. all the commands are like Get-Exchange-Mail-Recipients, etc. yes, that's far more verbose/"user friendly" than something like mailq or grep, but you're gonna have to read the docs to be able to use it anyway. why not make them commands that work with a keyboard interface and tab completion?? like, i wanted to like powershell, but it's incredibly loving clunky to interact with e: i'm sure the scripting experience is better with a proper IDE or something too, but that's not here nor there either, if i want more than 3 lines of CLI script i'll use a python Truga fucked around with this message at 12:27 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 12:25
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:
lol no. powershell has a full type system since its built on top of c#. bash is just lovely string manipulation. powershell is not great, but its infinitely better than bash
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May 19, 2020 13:10
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Truga posted:my main problem with powershell is that it was clearly designed by people who never used a CLI. all the commands are like Get-Exchange-Mail-Recipients, etc. yes, that's far more verbose/"user friendly" than something like mailq or grep, but you're gonna have to read the docs to be able to use it anyway. why not make them commands that work with a keyboard interface and tab completion?? why would you make the commands opaque and stupid when you can make them descriptive? powershell has tab completion. also every CLI before powershell has been a complete shitshow, so anything they do differently is probably better
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May 19, 2020 13:14
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Truga posted:my main problem with powershell is that it was clearly designed by people who never used a CLI. all the commands are like Get-Exchange-Mail-Recipients, etc. yes, that's far more verbose/"user friendly" than something like mailq or grep, but you're gonna have to read the docs to be able to use it anyway. why not make them commands that work with a keyboard interface and tab completion?? if you're using it as a daily driver and typing the same commands often, most commands will have a standardized alias matching the initials. eg. get child item is 'gci', invoke web request is 'iwr', and so on. infrequently-used commands are much better as verbose but intuitive long statements. easier discovery, easier error checking, easier readability ps-readline (tab completion and more) has shipped as a standard module for years now, so if you want to get something related to email you can just go get-exch{tab} and browse instead of having to google
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May 19, 2020 13:55
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help in powershell is also standardized w/ Get-Help <commandname> to further improve discoverability
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May 19, 2020 14:05
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NihilCredo posted:ps-readline (tab completion and more) has shipped as a standard module for years now, so if you want to get something related to email you can just go get-exch{tab} and browse instead of having to google i know there's tab completion, but it is also 300% useless because typing get-exch<tab> you get to tab through 30 trillion commands because they all start with the same 15 characters. you'll end up typing 80% of the command either way.
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May 19, 2020 14:07
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either way i do think it is entirely fair to say that powershell makes a pretty dubious direct replacement for bash for the day-to-day operating of your computer. what it does is make a good replacement for a lot of rolling even worse specialized clis (i.e. instead of a wonky commandline client for your sql server, which can't be integrated with anything else, just add composable commands to your existing shell in a structured and type-safe way), which also makes it a good replacement for some of the worst misuses of bash.
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May 19, 2020 14:29
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yeah that's true. powershell has some really nice stuff in it. although linux has now already replaced the feature i liked in powershell the most: being able to sift through logs programmatically, rather than trying to | sed | sort my way through a bunch of logs which might or might not have compatible timestamps. powershell had the edge there for a bit, but then journald happened.
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May 19, 2020 14:43
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NihilCredo posted:if you're using it as a daily driver and typing the same commands often, most commands will have a standardized alias matching the initials. eg. get child item is 'gci', invoke web request is 'iwr', and so on.
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May 19, 2020 15:13
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mystes posted:It's dumb that they allowed stuff like "ls" as an alias for get-childitem and then had to break it on linux because it would clash with the external command. its dumb that a command humans were supposed to type regularly was spelled "get-childitem"
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May 19, 2020 15:21
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Nomnom Cookie posted:its dumb that a command humans were supposed to type regularly was spelled "get-childitem" If you see other people's code that uses other aliases it makes it hard to read, but not using aliases at all makes it too verbose, especially if you don't use ? and % which just makes it gross. It has to be said that powershell still works a ton better than bash/sed/whatever for a lot of stuff, though.
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May 19, 2020 15:32
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good job to microsoft finding something worse than unix cli tool names though
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May 19, 2020 15:33
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its get-childitem because it can be used for other providers than the file system like the registry, certificate stores, sql server, etc...
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May 19, 2020 15:46
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the irony of fighting over who's shell is better in the "Linux on the desktop" thread is *chefs kiss*
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May 19, 2020 16:35
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I said "loving Linux" out loud yesterday and my wife said "yeah why are you using a garbage operating system". Pretty sure she's operating the Shaggar account. For the record I'm using Linux on the desktop because I'm an idiot but also because my cheap rear end computer runs faster on Linux and I don't wanna spend  on new hardware. Also I'm using Ubuntu which barely counts as Linux.
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May 19, 2020 17:06
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tell her to text me.
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May 19, 2020 17:07
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Optimus_Rhyme posted:the irony of fighting over who's shell is better in the "Linux on the desktop" thread is *chefs kiss* the idea that anyone would willingly engage in powershell apologia is so lol good page for updating your do-not-hire spreadsheets
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May 19, 2020 17:10
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the irony is that it took Microsoft to make the first working shell for Linux.
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May 19, 2020 17:11
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it kinda makes sense theyd port ps when you consider windows is EOL and will soon be replaced with linux
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May 19, 2020 17:16
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Mods please swap the titles of this thread and the Microsoft thread
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May 19, 2020 17:27
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i just wish they would've gone with noun-verb instead of verb-noun in powershell. the verbs used are inconsistent across modules so it makes discovery (usually with tab completion) more difficult. like, i'd rather type fart-<tab> and see what i can do with the farts than have to know the verb first. this is the primary reason that i use the azure az-cli rather than the powershell module for azure janitoring. with the az cli i can usually figure out what i need through discovery, but with the powershell module i have to have the docs open.
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May 19, 2020 17:37
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THE YEAR OF LINUX ON THE DESKTOP https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/19/21263377/microsoft-windows-10-linux-gui-apps-gpu-acceleration-wsl-features
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May 19, 2020 17:41
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i'm excited tbh after previously setting up intellij-under-wsl2 with some third party x server and having it work shockingly well apparently unlike all the windows x servers, this is gonna use wayland and RDP, which is how it's gonna get GPU acceleration
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May 19, 2020 17:43
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Jenny Agutter posted:Mods please swap the titles of this thread and the Microsoft thread
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May 19, 2020 18:03
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wtf https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Microsoft-DX12-WSL2 edit: yeah i know it's the same news as above Tankakern fucked around with this message at 18:26 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 18:22
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is there any actual first-party blog posting or other announcement so I don't have to go to either of those two garbage sites
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May 19, 2020 18:32
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