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Maxwell Lord posted:Did Vince McMahon always micromanage commentary to the extent he does now, or is more of an emergent phenomenon? Like obviously when he WAS a commentator he had to try and control the conversation in a different way, but I'm thinking of teams like Heenan and Monsoon or King and JR. The impression I get is that the micromanaging of everything increased heavily in the early 2000s, which was also when promos started getting much more heavily scripted.
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May 18, 2020 22:14
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Red posted:- Is there a subforum/thread to discuss the show? I didn't see one. There's one here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3917832
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May 18, 2020 22:16
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Red posted:I'm slowly making my way through the Dark Side of the Ring series, and my initial thoughts are:
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May 18, 2020 22:34
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Red posted:Now, all that said, at the end of the Benoit episode (p2), Jericho said the incident almost destroyed the industry. I don't agree with that at all, but it certainly changed a lot. How would people respond to that statement by Jericho? It turned everyone I knew who liked wrestling off of it, myself included. Would be interesting to see how it affected the ratings.
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May 18, 2020 22:36
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Thank you! davidbix posted:Documentaries fall under fair use for short clips the same way news programming does. It's just that nobody ever really bothered with it on WWE-owned stuff until DDP's Jake documentary. Ah, fascinating! FunMerrania posted:It turned everyone I knew who liked wrestling off of it, myself included. Interesting! As far as I recall, they really only had the one empty Raw, and then it was back to business, right?
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May 18, 2020 22:51
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Red posted:Interesting! As far as I recall, they really only had the one empty Raw, and then it was back to business, right? They scrapped a whole angle involving the death of Vince McMahon because of it but other than that, yeah business went on as usual. Although it did eventually lead to chairshots to the head being banned in WWE, which was and to this day still is, a good thing.
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May 19, 2020 00:03
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Not only did the “Mr. McMahon has been blown up inside his limo” plotline get immediately dropped, but Vince himself announced Benoit’s passing, stated the plot where “his character” tragically passed away was being scrapped in a rare moment of 4th wall breaking, and then kicked off the live empty arena tribute special, which, as more information rolled in, got...awkward. Regal’s eulogy, especially, seemed like he had just learned the truth of the murders/suicide and he had to choose his words VERY carefully. https://youtu.be/Kp3OQAL22T8 The following night, once all the dust had settled and it was well-known exactly WHAT had happened, Vince again showed up and essentially said “Now we know the horrible truth, we’ll never mention him again, let’s move on and try to heal.” https://youtu.be/-S8x6u6qKoo I wasn’t watching much at the time, but I remember tuning in since Benoit was one of my favorites growing up, and I very specifically remember how the news of what really happened broke about halfway through the show, making the rest of that Raw glorifying the guy really, REALLY strange to watch. Edit: related - Any ideas on what the follow up to the McMahon Limo Explosion plot would be? Something about a hobo army, right?
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May 19, 2020 16:46
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Not only did the “Mr. McMahon has been blown up inside his limo” plotline get immediately dropped, but Vince himself announced Benoit’s passing, stated the plot where “his character” tragically passed away was being scrapped in a rare moment of 4th wall breaking, and then kicked off the live empty arena tribute special, which, as more information rolled in, got...awkward. Mr.Kennedy was also supposed to be his son, then got himself fired
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May 19, 2020 17:20
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Not only did the “Mr. McMahon has been blown up inside his limo” plotline get immediately dropped, but Vince himself announced Benoit’s passing, stated the plot where “his character” tragically passed away was being scrapped in a rare moment of 4th wall breaking, and then kicked off the live empty arena tribute special, which, as more information rolled in, got...awkward. I was living on the west coast at the time, and I specifically recall the timing of the "more info becoming known" to coincide with the end of Raw on the East Coast. I never dove into conspiracy theory territory, but it did shade my viewing of Raw that night and my attitude toward wrestling in general for a long time.
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May 19, 2020 17:34
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Not only did the “Mr. McMahon has been blown up inside his limo” plotline get immediately dropped, but Vince himself announced Benoit’s passing, stated the plot where “his character” tragically passed away was being scrapped in a rare moment of 4th wall breaking, and then kicked off the live empty arena tribute special, which, as more information rolled in, got...awkward. They already had information before the Raw tribute show aired. They had heard from the police.
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May 19, 2020 18:48
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Edit: related - Any ideas on what the follow up to the McMahon Limo Explosion plot would be? Something about a hobo army, right? Roderick McMahon (Vince's real life brother) was supposed to come in and be the anti-Vince. Probably a good job that got scrapped, there were too many McMahons on TV already.
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May 19, 2020 19:32
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Dell_Zincht posted:Roderick McMahon (Vince's real life brother)
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May 19, 2020 19:34
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Coaaab posted:What the hell could that guy be like? Well he has no ties to the wrestling industry so he's probably a good guy.
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May 19, 2020 19:40
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Dell_Zincht posted:Roderick McMahon (Vince's real life brother) was supposed to come in and be the anti-Vince. Probably a good job that got scrapped, there were too many McMahons on TV already. I've never heard he was going to be the anti-Vince just that he was coming in for the funeral episode.
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May 19, 2020 19:52
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MassRafTer posted:I've never heard he was going to be the anti-Vince just that he was coming in for the funeral episode. https://screenrant.com/wwe-writer-reveals-plans-introduce-vince-mcmahon-brother-during-death-story-arc/
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May 19, 2020 19:54
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Dell_Zincht posted:https://screenrant.com/wwe-writer-reveals-plans-introduce-vince-mcmahon-brother-during-death-story-arc/ If you read Court's actual comments it really doesn't sound like it was set in stone (or even that Roderick had agreed) to do anything more after the funeral. It seems like the writers wanted to go hog wild with it though. Edit: The scary thing about what Court said it it sounds like they wanted to bring in even more McMahons besides Rod. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 20:39 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 20:32
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In another universe we'd all have gang tags that said "Vince McMahon's muscular hobo army"
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May 19, 2020 20:55
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MassRafTer posted:Edit: The scary thing about what Court said it it sounds like they wanted to bring in even more McMahons besides Rod. Use all the McMahons to fill the empty arenas. I just died imagining Vince's "One, two HE GOT HIM no he didn't" in various pitches and tones.
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May 19, 2020 21:22
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I thought Vince didn't like his brother? Like, there are stories that he's in the Macho Man category of "Don't talk about that man to me." right? I actually watched Raw is Benoit a while ago. It's immediately so bizarre, because until then you had the Eddie tribute show and the Owen tribute show; both of those were teary affairs with tons of wrestlers and fans sharing the horrible grief together, with ten-bell salutes and the like. The Benoit show is in an empty arena, I guess because there was an active investigation going on. Vince breaks character and then they play the Finger Eleven "One Thing" tribute package, which immediately tainted that song for whenever it gets played in other situations. Then the three commentary teams take turns introducing classic match highlights (including an NJPW match with Liger from the mid '90s with Michael Cole and Tazz commentary dubbed in) and wrestlers giving their thoughts backstage. Nobody is crying, they're all speaking very slowly and with decidedly confused or concerned looks on their faces. It's awful, but I ended up not being able to look away because it's all just such a strange spectacle.
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May 19, 2020 21:33
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I mainly just remember William Regal giving a bizarre speech to the effect of "I can say that no one was ever more obsessed over their job than Chris Benoit. Now excuse me, I think I left something in the oven"
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May 19, 2020 21:45
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I thought Vince didn't like his brother? Like, there are stories that he's in the Macho Man category of "Don't talk about that man to me." right? At least the song isn't retired: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/asides-with-jon-chattman-_13_b_1418159 quote:In the case of Canadian rockers Our Lady Peace, they’ve chosen to take one of their popular songs off any set list for an entirely different reason. In a nutshell, the track comes with way too much baggage.
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May 19, 2020 22:08
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This probably isn't the thread for this but: Has anyone ever been standing on the second or top rope and suplexed someone that was standing on the apron into the ring?
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May 20, 2020 05:15
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Ibushi and Matt Riddle both do that
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May 20, 2020 05:16
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elgin does it in like every match
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May 20, 2020 05:17
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Unperson_47 posted:Has anyone ever been standing on the second or top rope and suplexed someone that was standing on the apron into the ring?  Do German suplexes count?
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May 20, 2020 05:18
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karmicknight posted:
Hell yeah they do. Also, ya'll respond fast. 3 replies in as many minutes. Unperson_47 fucked around with this message at 05:24 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 05:22
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I think that was a Cesaro spot for a while too
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May 20, 2020 06:31
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Brian Cage does it too. He also did it the reverse way one time at the APW cow palace show and suplexed Morrison to the outside. Jeff Cobb and another wrestler were there to catch him
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May 20, 2020 06:43
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I have a question about wrestling outside the US. Given how there are Seth Rollins-style WWE bootlickers/apologists, are there big stars for NJPW, or AAA or any other Japanese/Mexican promotion that have so completely swallowed the company Kool-Aid and are prepared to continually suck up to their corporate overlords/bosses in order to appease them, or for other reasons? Or is that sort of thing more linked to WWE's cult like culture, and that Vince is a crazy man?
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May 20, 2020 09:19
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BrigadierSensible posted:I have a question about wrestling outside the US. The first thing my mind thinks of is some random fan on twitter saying Hirooki Goto, a NJPW guy who used to regularly challenge for the IWGP Heavyweight Title (but always lost) and is now more or less a permanent midcarder, should leave and go to a new company like All Japan or NOAH where they'd probably book him more strongly than he had been the last few years, since Goto's still quite good despite having been around a long time and could be a strong asset to a smaller company. Goto's response was to say "Sorry, but I can't. I love New Japan too much to do that." Which is both a classy way to respond to a fan talking about backstage stuff like pushes and booking, and be a loyal company man without coming across like a shameless bootlicker. I think any decently sized promotion is going to have some lifers, regardless of country.
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May 20, 2020 09:37
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BrigadierSensible posted:I have a question about wrestling outside the US. It was a thing with TNA wrestlers a few years ago. I think Eric Young said Meltzer isn’t “a real journalism” lol.
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May 20, 2020 11:19
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TriffTshngo posted:The first thing my mind thinks of is some random fan on twitter saying Hirooki Goto, a NJPW guy who used to regularly challenge for the IWGP Heavyweight Title (but always lost) and is now more or less a permanent midcarder, should leave and go to a new company like All Japan or NOAH where they'd probably book him more strongly than he had been the last few years, since Goto's still quite good despite having been around a long time and could be a strong asset to a smaller company. Goto's response was to say "Sorry, but I can't. I love New Japan too much to do that." Which is both a classy way to respond to a fan talking about backstage stuff like pushes and booking, and be a loyal company man without coming across like a shameless bootlicker. There are obviously going to be lifers in companies, especially in Japan. I don't know if YOSHI-HASHI has ever wrestled a match that wasn't either in New Japan, for an New Japan affiliate, or as part of a New Japan delegation. The part I think is less clear is the cheerleader thing. I feel like YOSHI-HASHI would have to give a lot more of a poo poo about, well, anything, to be a bootlicker.
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May 20, 2020 12:03
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The difference between WWE homers and NJPW homers is that NJPW doesn't embarrass itself often enough or badly enough that people need to get desperate to defend it the way people say that Owen Hart deserved to die in defense of WWE.
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May 20, 2020 12:11
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I Before E posted:The difference between WWE homers and NJPW homers is that NJPW doesn't embarrass itself often enough or badly enough that people need to get desperate to defend it the way people say that Owen Hart deserved to die in defense of WWE. Yeah that's a pretty big part of it. Plenty of carny-rear end carnies in wrestling but for the most part the only ones who get away with doing truly vile poo poo out in the open anymore are WWE because they're big enough to just say "actually we're right about everything, idiots," and TV execs and shareholders believe them, or real low level indies nobody knows or cares enough about to scrutinize. Every other fed with any kind of noteworthy presence at the very least has someone savvy enough to make sure appearances are kept up, which is a cynical way to lean but I'm not naive enough to assume something like "most major/semi-major wrestling companies have cleaned their act up."
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May 20, 2020 12:24
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All the njpw top stars will occasionally do interviews where they will say how loving rad New Japan is. Okada does it almost every interview. Outside of cultural differences in general (Okada speaks positively about his time in tna but it seems like he probably hated it) there is a difference in wrestling culture. Japanese wrestling still maintains some level of kayfabe so all the wrestlers are "in character" when doing these sorts of interviews. Okada will say New Japan is the best but its because he wrestles for them. That is a part of his character. He is the best, therefore wherever he works for is logically the best promotion. All the top stars would do interviews in a similar manner. With Seth its firstly embarrassing to say the wwe is the best promotion on earth because they stink but hes picking fights with Willy Ospreay over twitter and looking like a maniac. Okada isnt calling Seth a vanilla midget over twitter because Seth thinks the wwe is the best. So everyone just looks less insecure So Seth looked dumb because the WWE sucks and he was melting down online that people wouldn't respect him and the promotion. It was like the real life Colby was having an online meltdown because a British oaf wouldnt respect him
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May 20, 2020 16:17
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On one hand I do have some sympathy for the WWE guys who get piled on on Twitter (and here) for talking up the promotion, because at this point I wouldn't be surprised if it was part of the job description at most jobs like that, and to tell the truth I doubt it's actually the wrestlers themselves handling their Twitter output in many cases anyway. Guys like Seth just seem to about it in the worst possible way, though as said that might be partly because kayfabe is practically dead in the west.
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May 20, 2020 17:11
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you're giving them too much credit
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May 20, 2020 17:15
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Super No Vacancy posted:you're giving them too much credit Probably!
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May 20, 2020 17:16
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Red posted:At least the song isn't retired: Eh, "Whatever" ripped off Helloween's "The Time of the Oath", so gently caress 'em.
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May 20, 2020 17:21
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Are there any good books that focus on the history of Japanese wrestling or Mexican wrestling (like, separately, not in one book)? Or even better, if they are about the history of specific companies or even like, the Four Pillars of AJPW?
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May 20, 2020 17:28
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