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Omnicrom posted:Then you may appreciate Super Robot Wars Z where Guin shows up ultra late in the game with an army of "Black Dolls" (Psycho Gundams, Destroy Gundams, and Overdevils from Overman King Gainer), but he never actually pilots any of them. That does sound better. Points (although not required) if none of them listen to him for more than five seconds and start doing destructive stupid crap, this is a guy mostly associated with with the Milita (who can barely maintain internal order at the best of times) and the Ghingham faction (who genuinely don't give a crap what he has to say and all their own ideas are 90% pure destruction.)
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# ? May 19, 2020 11:42 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 10:04 |
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Ads are getting smarter!gourdcaptain posted:That does sound better. Points (although not required) if none of them listen to him for more than five seconds and start doing destructive stupid crap, this is a guy mostly associated with with the Milita (who can barely maintain internal order at the best of times) and the Ghingham faction (who genuinely don't give a crap what he has to say and all their own ideas are 90% pure destruction.) Guin is amusing because at the start he does seem like he is "in control" and the genuine leader guy, but as the show goes on it becomes increasingly clear that this is not actually true (which Lily delights in pointing out).
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# ? May 19, 2020 13:45 |
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Warmachine posted:Guin is amusing because at the start he does seem like he is "in control" and the genuine leader guy, but as the show goes on it becomes increasingly clear that this is not actually true (which Lily delights in pointing out). Look I'm sure once he mass-produces the Turn A this will all work out. (Seriously just... the worst possible idea. If he could even do it.) In retrospect "champion of industry and technology funding a milita" is the shadiest possible thing.
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# ? May 19, 2020 14:03 |
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Ramadu posted:theres an entire episode about a lake on earth moving 500 mile and they need this lake to get salt There’s a lot of occupation stuff in Gundam, on account of that being the chief economic reason for war throughout human history. But this is just them having fun with geology.
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# ? May 19, 2020 14:28 |
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gourdcaptain posted:Look I'm sure once he mass-produces the Turn A this will all work out. (Seriously just... the worst possible idea. If he could even do it.) He won't be doing it in 1920, that's for sure. I felt he was already wildly optimistic about mass producing Kapools and Borjarnon.
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# ? May 19, 2020 14:48 |
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Ramadu posted:theres an entire episode about a lake on earth moving 500 mile and they need this lake to get salt Classifying it as an entire episode is stretching things a bit. It's a b-plot that takes up 2 minutes or so of screen-time in total, and there's far more focus on Sayla in that episode if I recall it correctly. It being the one where she steals the Gundam to try and speak to Ral about her brother. Warmachine posted:He won't be doing it in 1920, that's for sure. I felt he was already wildly optimistic about mass producing Kapools and Borjarnon. He wasn't trying to do it alone. He wanted Dianna's assistance to mass produce that technology, and when it became obvious with the Black History stuff that she'd never help him produce weapons, he instead turned to Gym. Which was coincidentally just as Gym was reaching his breaking point with Dianna, since she had just demanded he hand over the Turn X out of fear of what he'd do with it, given his general disposition. Guin convinces Gym to ally with him against Dianna, with the hope that Gym instead would help him mass produce the Turn A. It's never clear what Guin is offering Gym, though it's presumably some help with people on Earth diplomatically; as soon as Gym gets down to Earth though, he starts to use military means to conquer territory in a way that bypasses any need for someone like Guin. Who found it impossible to control Gym. Gym eventually decides that he's just going to destroy the Turn A instead of capture it, and screw Guin's desire to study and mass produce it.
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# ? May 19, 2020 15:05 |
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why are kamilles parents so bad at staying alive
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# ? May 20, 2020 01:08 |
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Stairmaster posted:why are kamilles parents so bad at staying alive Look, Kamille's response to being abused and imprisoned by fascist space cops is to steal a Gundam and go stomping around. He also repeatedly spares enemy pilots, even when they've tried to kill him in the past. Those kind of poor survival instincts couldn't come from training under Char and Bright. That stuff's genetic.
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# ? May 20, 2020 02:29 |
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chiasaur11 posted:Look, Kamille's response to being abused and imprisoned by fascist space cops is to steal a Gundam and go stomping around. He also repeatedly spares enemy pilots, even when they've tried to kill him in the past. Are you implying this is somehow the wrong response?
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# ? May 20, 2020 04:21 |
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MizPiz posted:Are you implying this is somehow the wrong response? I am implying it's a response that doesn't usually result in a long life. That doesn't mean it's the wrong decision, but it isn't one that usually end as well as it did for Kamille.
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# ? May 20, 2020 04:26 |
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if aeug hadn't picked him up kamille would have died shortly after stealing the mk2.
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# ? May 20, 2020 07:01 |
I dunno who has it worse Kamille or Uso on the very dead parents scale.
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# ? May 20, 2020 07:01 |
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prior to mikazuki, uso had a worse everything than anyone.
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# ? May 20, 2020 07:03 |
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:prior to mikazuki, uso had a worse everything than anyone. Setsuna had a rougher start than Uso. I'd say killing your parents for a religious extremist who only wanted to indoctrinate you as a child soldier and who you later realized was a fraud might even be a rougher start than Mikazuki. Though he definitely had a better end. Prior to Mikazuki, Setsuna was the most emotionally traumatized protagonist too. The fact he held a lifetime aversion to physical contact with others, and was incapable of romantic love even a decade later puts him in a worse spot than Mika in some regards too; even if Mika was certainly worse off in general. tsob fucked around with this message at 07:44 on May 20, 2020 |
# ? May 20, 2020 07:11 |
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tsob posted:Setsuna had a rougher start than Uso. I'd say killing your parents for a religious extremist you later realized was a fraud might even be a rougher start than Mikazuki, even if he definitely had a better end. We don't really know how Mikazuki started, beyond that he felt being a child soldier under Orga's command was a major step up. The parent thing is kind of a question if no parents is better than parents you killed, which... open to varying viewpoints. I'd say the worst childhood for a Gundam pilot gold medal probably goes to McGillis. And his idolization of Gundams doesn't go nearly as happily as Setsuna's. (The one area where Mika's life looks better than most Gundam pilots is dead love interests. Atra and Kudelia really came out of things alright.)
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# ? May 20, 2020 07:53 |
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dang ryu also lol the guntank is like stronger than all of Americas military at once
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# ? May 20, 2020 12:41 |
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Ramadu posted:dang ryu I don't think I could find it now but there was a tweet where someone had mapped out the guntank's range according to its tech specs and it was ridiculously huge.
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# ? May 20, 2020 12:48 |
Mikazuki unlike many other protags doesn't really connect his life with it being awful though, he is so blase about his work and his role in the world that while it seems awful to us I think it seems not as awful to him. Where as Kamille thinks everyone sucks and his life is poo poo, Uso just gets poo poo on all the time and wants TO GO BACK TO KASARELLIA, both of them actively wish their lives weren't total crap. I feel like while Mikazuki wants a better life for Tekkadan it's really only because of the vision Orga has that carries him there, otherwise I think he would have just gone along with whatever came without giving it much emotional thought. Objectively he has it bad, but I don't think he perceives it as the worst in ways other Gundam protags do. The dude actively enjoys piloting the Barbatos and crushing every enemy in front of him, it's not a quandry or topic of trauma for him like other Gundam protags.
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# ? May 20, 2020 15:15 |
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To be fair, Mika is not a normal, functioning individual.
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# ? May 20, 2020 15:20 |
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I doubt Mikazuki would be so invested in Orga's dream if he wasn't at least partially aware of how poo poo life is for those around him and wanted to improve things a bit. The one time Orga starts to falter on it in season one, Mikazuki is the one to push him back towards that path in a very intense manner.
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# ? May 20, 2020 15:33 |
Droyer posted:I don't think I could find it now but there was a tweet where someone had mapped out the guntank's range according to its tech specs and it was ridiculously huge. “Tank” is kind of a misnomer really, the guntank is more of a mobile artillery platform with arms
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# ? May 20, 2020 17:16 |
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even the treads make sense, as there's no way for it to fire such enormous cannons and stay on two feet. they are artillery, not beam guns. it only gets silly and pointless in space.
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# ? May 20, 2020 17:31 |
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Mila is absolutely aware of now so poo poo his life was. He just didn't think he had any way to improve it. Consider his last words
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# ? May 20, 2020 17:32 |
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Droyer posted:I don't think I could find it now but there was a tweet where someone had mapped out the guntank's range according to its tech specs and it was ridiculously huge. I’ve played Zeonic Front. The Guntank is probably more dangerous than the Gundam because at least you can see the Gundam before you get blasted rather than massive artillery crashing into your face fired from the unseen distance by the Guntank
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# ? May 20, 2020 19:09 |
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Guntank was my favorite suit in Federation vs. Zeno. Those cannons packed a punch.
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# ? May 20, 2020 19:28 |
ImpAtom posted:Mila is absolutely aware of now so poo poo his life was. He just didn't think he had any way to improve it. Consider his last words Aware, but not consumed by it in the same way some other protags are imo.
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# ? May 20, 2020 21:54 |
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MechaX posted:I’ve played Zeonic Front. minovosky particles were a mistake
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# ? May 20, 2020 22:03 |
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Aware, but not consumed by it in the same way some other protags are imo. I don't agree. Mika is consumed by his desire for a better life but he has no idea how to actually get there and keeps going all-in on wrong choices because he trusts Orga to get him there. Orga doesn't entirely get Mika and thinks he is obligated to give Mika excitement and a grand goal to go towards while Mika shows both earlier on and in his last moments that really all he wanted as a nice farm and people he cared about. The big tragedy is that he didn't realize that dream was already in his grasp until it was too late. That's the most interesting thing about Mika and Orga's relationship. They are as close as they can be and yet they fundamentally misunderstand each other. Orga feels like Tekkadan has to be something incredible and amazing and reaches for it because he thinks it may be the only way they can find real happiness free from exploitation. He thinks his friends and family want to be Kings of Mars and he feels obligated to try for it, both to not devalue the sacrifices that came before and because he feels a pressure to do so. (Embodied in some way by Mika.) Mika just wants a life, a place he belonged and he wholeheartedly believe that Orga will get him there. And the sad part is that Orga did and then Orga kept reaching because he thought that was what was expected of him or that it was his only choice. It is why when Mika is dying he realizes "Oh... we'd already gotten there." Mika spent his entire life dedicated to trying to make a place for himself and his loved ones to belong, no matter the cost. It is what drove him until the very last moment where the poor boy realized at long last that he'd gotten what he wanted all along.
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# ? May 20, 2020 22:05 |
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I mean, like the vast majority of sci-fi tech specs, they're literal nonsense written by people who have no idea what they're talking about. Like, even setting aside HOW it manages to get over 250km range with the cannons, what would even be the point given the Minovsky flooded battlefields? You could just randomly bombard an area in that vague vicinity I guess, but that makes little sense as a military weapon - or even a terror one. Or, for a clearer example, the Guntank's power plant has actual tech specs, and it has a listed weight and speed as well. The relationship between these makes zero sense - not in a "well, sci fi materials make up for it" sense, but in a "this makes no sense in terms of physics no matter how you cut it" one. You've got an engine that produces significantly less power than even modern day tank engines, for a design that's much heavier and a far worse design in terms of airflow, and it somehow goes faster?
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# ? May 20, 2020 22:10 |
I mean, modern rocket-assisted artillery can go 50 miles with reasonably good accuracy, and artillery isn’t exactly the favored recipient of R&D dollarydoos these days, so presumably however many decades/centuries of development UC has on us could entirely reasonably reach out 250km,minovsky interferences notwithstanding.
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# ? May 20, 2020 22:42 |
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Ethiser posted:Guntank was my favorite suit in Federation vs. Zeno. Those cannons packed a punch. The z'gok and the guncannon are both incredibly beastly in that game in the zeon side
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# ? May 21, 2020 00:23 |
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I might have emphasized the "how" too much, but I am aware of artillery boosters such as rocket assisted shells which is why I mostly just bypassed that point. The modern experimental systems can range far higher than 50 miles, after all. I just was looking purely at the range in that point, and how it's absurd in regards to Minovsky interference. Because at the kind of ranges listed you need a LOT more information than you can just get in the local area, and the interference cuts out virtually any realistic moment-to-moment BVR communication. Unless your idea of a great strategy is "land shells somewhere within 30 miles of the target with a rather light round."
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# ? May 21, 2020 00:35 |
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realistically tactical nuclear weapons should be abundant in the post minovsky world.
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# ? May 21, 2020 01:32 |
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Stairmaster posted:realistically tactical nuclear weapons should be abundant in the post minovsky world. They are but it's one of those situations where they agreed not to use them because the fallout (lol) would be too great. Even then you get occasional breaches but a nuke isn't that super effective for the kind of combat the OYW has. It's either too small-scale or they have something like a colony laser or a solar ray which probably is better than a nuke at destroying fleets. Honestly there isn't much a nuke can do that both sides can't reliably do anyway including war crimes unless you are aiming for rendering the Earth uninhabitable. (And even then you basically have Char who wanted the Earth to heal and recover and Croux who was a crazy bastard who attempted to nuke Earth.)
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# ? May 21, 2020 01:44 |
Stairmaster posted:realistically tactical nuclear weapons should be abundant in the post minovsky world. e: clarified who it was who didn't want nukes
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# ? May 21, 2020 02:29 |
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The reaction missiles were originally meant to be nuclear weapons apparently, yeah. They morphed in to being a substitute for anti-matter weapons at some point over the years too, I think. Mind you, if Minovsky reactors create a clean nuclear reaction, then shouldn't they be able to create nuclear missiles that have no fallout?
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# ? May 21, 2020 02:44 |
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tsob posted:The reaction missiles were originally meant to be nuclear weapons apparently, yeah. They morphed in to being a substitute for anti-matter weapons at some point over the years too, I think. Mind you, if Minovsky reactors create a clean nuclear reaction, then shouldn't they be able to create nuclear missiles that have no fallout? Probably, considering how some of the nukings in Gundam have gone. The One Year War handling of nukes is actually pretty clever. They were used extensively in the first week of the war... then everyone looked at the death count and quietly added them to the "do not use" pile alongside colony drops. And then various parties made plans around nukes anyway, because Zeon is a bunch of space assholes.
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# ? May 21, 2020 02:49 |
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...Why is the Core Change armor with the melee weapons the Saturn(ix) set and not the one with AN ACTUAL ORBITAL RING?
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# ? May 21, 2020 04:04 |
tsob posted:The reaction missiles were originally meant to be nuclear weapons apparently, yeah. They morphed in to being a substitute for anti-matter weapons at some point over the years too, I think. Mind you, if Minovsky reactors create a clean nuclear reaction, then shouldn't they be able to create nuclear missiles that have no fallout?
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# ? May 21, 2020 06:47 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 10:04 |
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tsob posted:Mind you, if Minovsky reactors create a clean nuclear reaction, then shouldn't they be able to create nuclear missiles that have no fallout? If you have “clean” nuclear weapons you just have efficient conventional explosives. Part of the point of including nuclear weapons in a story is because you want to talk about radiation, fallout, cancer, and other nasty effects. Edit: ^^^^^
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# ? May 21, 2020 06:48 |