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Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


We had a cat that got too close to the stove once despite the attempts to keep her away, she singed her fur but was otherwise fine and never went near fire again

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Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot


College Slice

Boris Galerkin posted:

Are cats dumb enough to play with fire from a gas stovetop or try to touch hot pots and pans? I’ve given up teaching Ruthie she’s not allowed up on the counters cause it wasn’t working so I just ignore her unless I’m cooking. I don’t leave the stove unattended but I don’t know if she’ll want to play with the pot I just boiled water in.

Yes. Cats are very much that dumb.

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.

Dienes posted:

Yes. Cats are very much that dumb.

Aleta once plopped her sweet baby foot right onto a candle flame. She survived, but my wall is still covered in wax.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Boris Galerkin posted:

Are cats dumb enough to play with fire from a gas stovetop or try to touch hot pots and pans? I’ve given up teaching Ruthie she’s not allowed up on the counters cause it wasn’t working so I just ignore her unless I’m cooking. I don’t leave the stove unattended but I don’t know if she’ll want to play with the pot I just boiled water in.

A swat in the butt or a spritz of water is helpful. Our cats still get on a table or counter now and then, but they jump off immediately and run off when we show up so they obviously know they're not supposed to be there.

SSSCat has been pretty effective, too. It eats batteries, though, so use it sparingly.

InvisibleMonkey
Jun 4, 2004


Hey, girl.

Buff Hardback posted:

Oh you got it from petkit.com or whatever?

My one piece of advice is make sure you use a real 5v USB power brick. I was using this to replace my Catit stainless fountain which uses a USB brick but a non-standard voltage. I forgot it wasn't standard voltage, and the pump would turn on for a few seconds and then stop and blink a complain light.

Couldn't find it anywhere in Europe except for marked up drop shippers so I went with banggood, it's a pricey fountain for sure! I recently received the petkit stainless steel tilted feeding bowls and was very pleased with the quality so I decided to upgrade her cheap plastic fountain too, nothing but the best for my baby.

Thanks for the tip!

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

Dienes posted:

Yes. Cats are very much that dumb.

Hunans are that dumb, too.

Raymond T. Racing
Jun 11, 2019

InvisibleMonkey posted:

Couldn't find it anywhere in Europe except for marked up drop shippers so I went with banggood, it's a pricey fountain for sure! I recently received the petkit stainless steel tilted feeding bowls and was very pleased with the quality so I decided to upgrade her cheap plastic fountain too, nothing but the best for my baby.

Thanks for the tip!

Ah yeah makes sense.

As for bowls, I use microchip bowls from Sure petcare, keeps my cats from eating each others food.

Bobstar
Feb 8, 2006

KartooshFace, you are not responding efficiently!

Buff Hardback posted:

Ah yeah makes sense.

As for bowls, I use microchip bowls from Sure petcare, keeps my cats from eating each others food.

Kitten day 1 week today!

We've got 2 of the microchip bowls, we really liked the IR one with Jimmy on his own, but we figured we'd get them used to the microchip arches from day 1, for the day one of them inevitably needs medicine and/or special food.

Do they work well?

Raymond T. Racing
Jun 11, 2019

Bobstar posted:

Kitten day 1 week today!

We've got 2 of the microchip bowls, we really liked the IR one with Jimmy on his own, but we figured we'd get them used to the microchip arches from day 1, for the day one of them inevitably needs medicine and/or special food.

Do they work well?

They worked perfectly. Never had any issues with them, and it made sure they were eating their own food.

mistaya
Oct 18, 2006

Cat of Wealth and Taste

It can be helpful to put up a cat tree or other shelf-thing where they ARE allowed near the place they are not allowed so you can redirect them. Barring things like "I keep treats there," the cat's only up on the counter because it either gets a view it can't get elsewhere or it wants to be in the room with you and watch you cooking and doing kitchen stuff.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy
Yeah as far as I know my cats don't go on the kitchen counters. One used to use one to jump to the top of the fridge and then to the top of the cabinets, but he stopped doing that after a kitchen remodel. Instead, when I'm cooking, I often get a cat on the little cabinet thing I have standing just outside the kitchen which is about 5 feet tall, a cat sitting on the cat table (the table their food is on) a short distance away and sometimes a cat in the cat tree which is right next to the cat table.

The cat on the outside cabinet is almost always my girl cat and she likes to peek around the corner and meow at me while I'm cooking.

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007

We've got a sweet neighbor hood cat that comes around and follows me while I'm tending the garden. The last few days his one ear is puffed up like a balloon on one side likely an aural hematoma from ear mites. We've gotten miteacide into his ears and gotten him comfortable enough to let us clean out his earwax. He's come inside a few times and our other cats are interested in him but he's still nervous about that so we put them up stairs if he comes in.
Maybe he can be a new member of the pack once we can get him to the vet and make sure he's not FIV or anything and get his shots up to date

Puffed up ear


We've been calling him Whitey

LoreOfSerpents
Dec 29, 2001

No.

Trumps Baby Hands posted:

She’s my special recessive baby.

She has a case of Psychogenic alopecia that apparently predates the shelter. I’ve always been drawn to women riddled with mental illnesses so I’m not surprised me and little Dolores have bonded so quickly. Dunno what her history is so I’m hoping that being in a loving home chills her out and reduces the compulsive grooming

Better view of one of her bald spots:


Has your vet mentioned doing any tests or trials, by any chance? One of our cats does/did the compulsive grooming to the point of baldness. It eventually got bad enough that he was giving himself staph infections, because he kept pulling/grooming/biting even when the fur was all gone. It was awful. Our apartment was covered in new tufts of fur every day, and he could hardly sleep for an hour without waking up to obsessively lick/bite his side.

Our vet checked for mites multiple times. Ran tests for allergies (lol). Tried antihistamines. Tried anti-anxiety meds. Did a skin biopsy to check for rare diseases, did ultrasounds, did so many blood tests.

Finally, out of options, she said we needed to try prednisolone to try and get the inflammation under control. For our cat, that was straight magic. He still occasionally pulls out a bit of fur when he's hungry, and our vet wants to do a necropsy when he eventually dies to do a really in-depth study of his skin. But for now, just controlling the inflammation has been life-changing. His coat is so fluffy and we haven't had to treat a staph infection in years.

Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot


College Slice

LoreOfSerpents posted:

Has your vet mentioned doing any tests or trials, by any chance? One of our cats does/did the compulsive grooming to the point of baldness. It eventually got bad enough that he was giving himself staph infections, because he kept pulling/grooming/biting even when the fur was all gone. It was awful. Our apartment was covered in new tufts of fur every day, and he could hardly sleep for an hour without waking up to obsessively lick/bite his side.

Our vet checked for mites multiple times. Ran tests for allergies (lol). Tried antihistamines. Tried anti-anxiety meds. Did a skin biopsy to check for rare diseases, did ultrasounds, did so many blood tests.

Finally, out of options, she said we needed to try prednisolone to try and get the inflammation under control. For our cat, that was straight magic. He still occasionally pulls out a bit of fur when he's hungry, and our vet wants to do a necropsy when he eventually dies to do a really in-depth study of his skin. But for now, just controlling the inflammation has been life-changing. His coat is so fluffy and we haven't had to treat a staph infection in years.

That drug has been a miracle for Phyrexian Obliterator as well. Just make sure you get regular heart scans, as it can cause thickening of the chamber walls

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Hawkperson posted:

My cat wanted nothing to do with his harness until I left it in his sleeping spot for two weeks and let him get his scent all over it. Then he was totally fine with it. Beware though, if your cat is anything like my cat he will raise holy hell about going outside after getting a taste.

He already does. I've had him in the harnass for 2 days now. I think i'm going to try walking him around the apartment with the leash tomorrow and if that goes well we can sit out in the backyard on sunday.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!
I noticed a crack/cut on my cats back paw center pad this evening. It doesn't seem to hurt him at all and the edges are dry so it seems more like the pad cracked from dryness rather than a cut. I read online that coconut oil is a good remedy since its safe for him to lick and has some anti microbial properties. Anyone have any other suggestions for treatnents/remedies?

Tamarillo
Aug 6, 2009

Bobstar posted:

Kitten day 1 week today!

We've got 2 of the microchip bowls, we really liked the IR one with Jimmy on his own, but we figured we'd get them used to the microchip arches from day 1, for the day one of them inevitably needs medicine and/or special food.

Do they work well?

They do, usually. After about a year my cat learned how to pin the other cat down within range of the hoop to take a few extremely grotesque large mouthfuls + smash his face into the wet food to lick off later before the flap closed again. Then learned how to rip it open on his own, so we had to glue a bunch of stuff onto it so he couldn't rip it off it's hinges anymore.

Hopefully your cats will not be so determined.

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


Tamarillo posted:

They do, usually. After about a year my cat learned how to pin the other cat down within range of the hoop to take a few extremely grotesque large mouthfuls + smash his face into the wet food to lick off later before the flap closed again. Then learned how to rip it open on his own, so we had to glue a bunch of stuff onto it so he couldn't rip it off it's hinges anymore.

Hopefully your cats will not be so determined.


i cannot stop laughing at the idea of your one cat "where's the money, lebowski!?"-ing the other

Raymond T. Racing
Jun 11, 2019

Tamarillo posted:

They do, usually. After about a year my cat learned how to pin the other cat down within range of the hoop to take a few extremely grotesque large mouthfuls + smash his face into the wet food to lick off later before the flap closed again. Then learned how to rip it open on his own, so we had to glue a bunch of stuff onto it so he couldn't rip it off it's hinges anymore.

Hopefully your cats will not be so determined.

Was that with or without intruder mode?

I know they don't publicize intruder mode because it does allow for denial-of-service attacks of a cat bowl, but apparently it works well enough as long as the cat isn't ripping it open.

Vampess
Nov 24, 2010
Tiger has some eye goop in the middle of her eye, which I noticed yesterday. She doesn't seem bothered, and it isn't stuck (I petted her face to check). Will keep an eye on it, but should I be worried if it doesn't go away in a few days? What can I do to help?

Edit; It seems she managed to get rid of it right after I posted. Will still keep an eye on her eyes.

Edit²: Recent picture of the little butt;

Keep being awesome people! :)

Vampess fucked around with this message at 05:46 on May 24, 2020

Eh! Frank
Mar 28, 2006

Doctor gave me these, I said what are these?
He said that they'll cure an existential type disease
My <1 year old kitty likes to watch me eat my meals, and when she does, she usually tilts her head while staring at my food, often turning it 90° to the side. She's adorable as gently caress when she does it, I haven't had any other cats that have done this, though, and was curious if it was a sign of curiosity, begging, contemplation, or what, so I tried Googling it. All of the tops results, though, were along the lines of "A head tilt (along with nausea, dizziness, etc.) could be a sign of a serious disease in cats, bring them to a vet immediately!" Except she shows zero signs of discomfort or pain or loss of coordination or anything, so I'm almost certain she's not sick. Still, I wanted to be sure so I thought I'd ask about it here.

Here's a picture of her doing it:

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.

Eh! Frank posted:

My <1 year old kitty likes to watch me eat my meals, and when she does, she usually tilts her head while staring at my food, often turning it 90° to the side. She's adorable as gently caress when she does it, I haven't had any other cats that have done this, though, and was curious if it was a sign of curiosity, begging, contemplation, or what, so I tried Googling it. All of the tops results, though, were along the lines of "A head tilt (along with nausea, dizziness, etc.) could be a sign of a serious disease in cats, bring them to a vet immediately!" Except she shows zero signs of discomfort or pain or loss of coordination or anything, so I'm almost certain she's not sick. Still, I wanted to be sure so I thought I'd ask about it here.

Here's a picture of her doing it:


Awww!

I don't think she's sick, I think she's hoping you'll share/trying to understand why your food is so weird.

pidan
Nov 6, 2012


In my short career of googling things a cat does, my experience is that literally anything is a sign of deathly illness and you should go to the vet immediately. But also, cats do a lot of weird things when they're totally fine. I'd say if the cat seems generally healthy (eats, drinks, uses the toilet, moves around, doesn't constantly cling to your side or constantly hide) you probably don't need to worry about any one small behavioural oddity.

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011

I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

mistaya posted:

It can be helpful to put up a cat tree or other shelf-thing where they ARE allowed near the place they are not allowed so you can redirect them. Barring things like "I keep treats there," the cat's only up on the counter because it either gets a view it can't get elsewhere or it wants to be in the room with you and watch you cooking and doing kitchen stuff.

I mean honestly if I had my way then my cats would not go into the kitchen, ever. It's just a sanitary thing that I'm extremely neurotic about keeping my kitchen spotless enough that I could eat food directly off of any surface without feeling gross. I disinfect and wipe down all my cooking surfaces before and after I'm done cooking though, so it's not really a big deal if they walk on the counters as long as I'm not preparing anything.

pidan
Nov 6, 2012


My kitten pricked me with her claws yesterday while climbing on my leg. It wasn't very deep and didn't bleed. I washed the area with soap about half an hour after it happened.

The area hurts much more than I would expect from a scratch of that size. But it doesn't look particularly red or swollen. Should I be worried about anything? Is the pain a sign of allergy?

I'm honestly pretty over this cat right now. Even my partner has started sneezing.

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011

I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

pidan posted:

My kitten pricked me with her claws yesterday while climbing on my leg. It wasn't very deep and didn't bleed. I washed the area with soap about half an hour after it happened.

The area hurts much more than I would expect from a scratch of that size. But it doesn't look particularly red or swollen. Should I be worried about anything? Is the pain a sign of allergy?

I'm honestly pretty over this cat right now. Even my partner has started sneezing.

The only solution here is :sever:, obviously. Not from the cat or your partner but have you ever watched a zombie movie?


(When I first started playing with Ruthie after she started trusting me enough to do more than just leave a bowl of food on the ground my arms were completely torn up with scratches and bandages everywhere. This was also when she was still living outdoors so it was probably worse off in terms of possible infections. Anyways as of today I still have both arms and legs intact and she's also learned to keep her claws in check (and also I've learned what not to do to avoid being scratched). I'm not a doctor but I probably wouldn't worry unless it persists or unless you have some other disease that would make you worry.)

pidan
Nov 6, 2012


I'll probably :sever: from the cat, to be honest. I'm freaking out about the allergy, about whether the scratch gave me an infection (good thing I had my tetanus shot three years ago), and about whether keeping her is even good for the cat. I feel uncomfortable in my own home. When I sit on my chair I'm scared she'll jump on me with her claws again. When I walk around I'm scared she'll attack my feet.

I didn't expect this to happen. I used to like cats.

Katt
Nov 14, 2017

Me and a friend is going to have an ideological split over when the time is right to put down a cat. I'm doing it this week but he thought I should have done it months ago.

I'm of the persuasion "Would I have wanted people to put me to death if that was me?" while my friend is more "Oh the cat has a limp? Well RIP"

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


pidan posted:

I'll probably :sever: from the cat, to be honest. I'm freaking out about the allergy, about whether the scratch gave me an infection (good thing I had my tetanus shot three years ago), and about whether keeping her is even good for the cat. I feel uncomfortable in my own home. When I sit on my chair I'm scared she'll jump on me with her claws again. When I walk around I'm scared she'll attack my feet.

I didn't expect this to happen. I used to like cats.

It sounds like you might be better suited to an adult cat tbh. Kittens are little arseholes who don't have any manners and if you aren't bonding to her sufficiently to be able to cope with her scratching while learning how to be polite, and aren't okay with having a potentially clingy animal, she might be better off in a different home.

Adult cats are much more likely to understand claw boundaries and you can make sure to get one that has a personality that suits what you want in a cat.

Bobstar
Feb 8, 2006

KartooshFace, you are not responding efficiently!

pidan posted:

I'll probably :sever: from the cat, to be honest. I'm freaking out about the allergy, about whether the scratch gave me an infection (good thing I had my tetanus shot three years ago), and about whether keeping her is even good for the cat. I feel uncomfortable in my own home. When I sit on my chair I'm scared she'll jump on me with her claws again. When I walk around I'm scared she'll attack my feet.

I didn't expect this to happen. I used to like cats.

Firstly, it is of course ok to see that a cat gets a new home if it's not working out. Keeping going if you're miserable isn't good for you or the cat.

BUT

I totally empathise with where you're coming from. I grew up with cats from before I was born, almost solidly through until I left home. I am a very cat person. In my parents' house, cats were nominally barred from the kitchen (a separate room) for hygiene reasons, but we also didn't break out the bleach if one did jump up on the counter - we just hooshed them out.

Then I lived in rented accommodation for 13 years. In that time I also became more of a germ avoider and health worrier. When we first got Jimmy, I resented him a bit for this reason (which I still feel guilty about now that he's gone).

Our house doesn't have a utility room like where my parents fed the cats, and the ground floor is an open plan kitchen dining living area, so "no cats in the kitchen" is kind of impossible to enforce (or possibly a philosophical question - is the cat in the kitchen when he's on the sofa?), and the kitchen sink is the only place to wash up the cat bowls. At first I would obsessively dettol-spray the sink after doing his bowls, but eventually I stopped and it was fine. He also spent the nights in this giant room, so the next day I would just treat the work surfaces as if he'd walked all over them, and give them a quick wipe before preparing food.

For scratches I just keep wound cleansing wipes to hand, and remind myself that I have an immune system for that kind of thing.

When we get the kittens this week it's going to be that x10 - Jimmy was 8 and a very good boy, these girls are going to be a handful. But this time I know to just give it some time, get used to the new normal of more mess and slightly more cleaning, and it'll be ok.

^^ agree with the above, but would add that the kitten stage is also quite short (as we remind people who "want kittens" because they're "so cute"). If the situation is manageable, the kitten(s) will turn into cat(s) soon enough, and they'll be cats who've grown up with you, which is kind of cool.

Bobstar fucked around with this message at 12:31 on May 24, 2020

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

https://twitter.com/PhilippineStar/...m%2F10181363532

pidan
Nov 6, 2012


Bobstar posted:

Firstly, it is of course ok to see that a cat gets a new home if it's not working out. Keeping going if you're miserable isn't good for you or the cat.

BUT

I totally empathise with where you're coming from. I grew up with cats from before I was born, almost solidly through until I left home. I am a very cat person. In my parents' house, cats were nominally barred from the kitchen (a separate room) for hygiene reasons, but we also didn't break out the bleach if one did jump up on the counter - we just hooshed them out.

Then I lived in rented accommodation for 13 years. In that time I also became more of a germ avoider and health worrier. When we first got Jimmy, I resented him a bit for this reason (which I still feel guilty about now that he's gone).

Our house doesn't have a utility room like where my parents fed the cats, and the ground floor is an open plan kitchen dining living area, so "no cats in the kitchen" is kind of impossible to enforce (or possibly a philosophical question - is the cat in the kitchen when he's on the sofa?), and the kitchen sink is the only place to wash up the cat bowls. At first I would obsessively dettol-spray the sink after doing his bowls, but eventually I stopped and it was fine. He also spent the nights in this giant room, so the next day I would just treat the work surfaces as if he'd walked all over them, and give them a quick wipe before preparing food.

For scratches I just keep wound cleansing wipes to hand, and remind myself that I have an immune system for that kind of thing.

When we get the kittens this week it's going to be that x10 - Jimmy was 8 and a very good boy, these girls are going to be a handful. But this time I know to just give it some time, get used to the new normal of more mess and slightly more cleaning, and it'll be ok.

^^ agree with the above, but would add that the kitten stage is also quite short (as we remind people who "want kittens" because they're "so cute"). If the situation is manageable, the kitten(s) will turn into cat(s) soon enough, and they'll be cats who've grown up with you, which is kind of cool.

Thank you for this. I massively freaked out this morning, to the point where I almost think this was some nervous system effect from the antihistamines. But then I ate some noodles and talked to my partner, and started feeling better again. Then I googled "I regret getting a cat" (lol) and read a bunch of stories from people in similar situations.
According to those people, allergic reactions tend to get better or go away after a while, and generally it takes some time to get used to the cat. So I want to give her some more time. She's honestly adorable and a really nice and easygoing cat, and my partner loves her a lot.

I'm not that concerned about cat dirt in general. I don't let her in the kitchen unless I'm there, and I won't let her lick my bowls or anything like that. But I'm not going to start wiping everything with bleach that she has touched -- although getting wipes for scratches sounds like a good idea. I guess there's just something about her claws breaking my skin that makes me really uncomfortable. I see some softpaws in this cat's future.

We underestimated how much energy a kitten would have. She can play for half an hour, jumping all over the sofa and cat tree. We get tired swinging the toy faster than she gets tired chasing it. In retrospect, an older cat would have been better. But eventually, this one will get old as well.

InvisibleMonkey
Jun 4, 2004


Hey, girl.
If you've never had a cat and suspect an allergy, definitely give it some time. My bf used to say he was very allergic to "some cats" but he never had lived with one, when we got ours he was sniffly for a few weeks but then it went away completely. He still has mild reactions to scratches but I'm not too sympathetic because he always wants to play rough with her. v:shobon:v

Bina
Dec 28, 2011

Love Deluxe
We have a year old cat that brings in quite a bit of prey as of late. Are there any bell collars that hold up even if the cat tries to get it off?

I don't want the collar to be a choking hazard, but he's been bringing in live prey (baby bunnies) and leaving them without finishing the kill. We wake up to partially nibbled bunnies, mice, etc. The other day I had to clean up a gnawed off head and intestines.

He is definitely an outdoor cat, and will spray if kept inside.

A durable breakaway would be handy, but I'm unsure about the bell aspect.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Bell collars don't work, cats just learn to move without causing them to jangle. Not sure there's any way to stop a cat from hunting other than keeping it inside away from its prey.

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


Yeah, bell collars do not work. Think of it this way: If you can manage to walk smoothly enough to avoid jangling a bell, a cat can definitely do it. There's a reason that stealthy/sneaky people are called "catfooted".

Cats are gonna cat. The only way you're gonna stop him from killing things is to keep him inside. If he's not neutered, get it done to help address the spraying.

Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot


College Slice
Predators gonna pred. He's not even bringing you the majority of his kills. Jumping on the bandwagon that a bell will no nothing. Nor would declawing.

Katt
Nov 14, 2017





Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Organza Quiz posted:

Bell collars don't work, cats just learn to move without causing them to jangle. Not sure there's any way to stop a cat from hunting other than keeping it inside away from its prey.

After 5 years rear end in a top hat still hasn't managed to figure this out and I appreciate that

Of course he's a terrible loving hunter, he and Bean were staring intently at the floor yesterday because there was an ant crawling along it. He backed away when it turned in his direction. Worst hunters ever.

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Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011

I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!
Can anyone share their success stories with Feliway Multicat/Friends? I ordered a pair and it came in today and my two cats have been locked in my room with the diffuser running (I’m in here too just in case) and I’m just really hoping this does something. They “get along” in the sense that they don’t fight but they also show absolutely zero interest in each other at all. They have no problem sharing a plate of creamy paste snacks with their faces touching each other but they just pretend like the other doesn’t exist. And they generally don’t go into the same room as each other unless I’m in there too.

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