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Doctor Zaius posted:e2: This I think treats media as a sort of immaculate, sovereign object. Media cannot fail, it can only be failed by bad interpretation. If something seems bad on initial viewing, then you simply haven't been creative enough with your reading of it, because bad media is an oxymoron. I mean, yeah? If you simply say "This movie failed to do this, or did this on accident" you might as well be waving a gun around and screaming about plot holes. "What does this film say?" is always the more interesting option, because it's actually a discussion. Also yeah, your understanding of satire is about on this level. https://twitter.com/pcgamer/status/1230874850035716097 "The late-capitalist hellscapes that The Outer Worlds and Journey to the Savage Planet try to ridicule are not hypothetical situations lurking in the future. They exist today. As a result this satire just bounces harmlessly off its targets; it no longer has bite, and therefore, it isn't funny." 
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May 25, 2020 01:37
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Wasn't a pretty common complaint about Outer Worlds was that it was technically satire but didn't really seem to get why corporations and rampant capitalism are bad other than them being annoying?
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May 25, 2020 01:45
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mycot posted:Wasn't a pretty common complaint about Outer Worlds was that it was technically satire but didn't really seem to get why corporations and rampant capitalism are bad other than them being annoying? Yeah, it's Elizabeth Warren the Game. The final position it takes is that there's nothing wrong with capitalism as long as you keep those darn corporations from being too pushy in their marketing.
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May 25, 2020 01:50
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Taintrunner posted:This is entirely incorrect and a complete misreading of the entire movie, to the point that it is basically lying about the direct text of the film, regardless of the subtext. Like you have to be directly ignoring the literal words coming out of Mark Wahlberg's mouth in the opening 5 minutes of the film: And yet the movie repeatedly asks who "deserves" wealth and who "should" own those nice houses and fast cars. Wahlberg growls that not only does he want what Shalhoub has, he wants Shalhoub not to have it. Harris pontificates that while Shalhoub may be an rear end in a top hat, he earned his wealth. Which would be ironic if the movie had included the fact that in real life after the person who Shalhoub plays testified against the himbos he was arrested on the court steps for Medicare fraud. Instead, the movie purposefully removed this real life punchline from its American Dream "satire". Why? Because the movie is sympathetic not only to Shalhoub and what he went through, but with his financial status. The American Dream is real. Therefore Wahlberg hadn't done the work and hadn't earned it. Otherwise he'd already have it. Instead he's just a whiner, a cheat, a pretender, a loser who's all talk. Like everyone else who complains about not getting their fair share. Wahlberg is a caricature designed and directed by a right-wing hollywood elite to represent anyone who questions whether the American Dream is just. The story is how if any one of us had half the chance, or the balls, we would do the same as Wahlberg and use that wealth just as selfishly. We're no better than the rich, and the simple fact is we don't deserve nice things, plus we're stupid, lazy and gross. The American Dream is working as intended, the rich are where they belong, the poor are where they belong, and by the end of the movie balance is restored. If the movie is so grotesque you can read it as satire, then great all the more power to you. I wish I could. But that reading is mostly based on illiteracy.
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May 25, 2020 01:52
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mycot posted:Wasn't a pretty common complaint about Outer Worlds was that it was technically satire but didn't really seem to get why corporations and rampant capitalism are bad other than them being annoying? I mean the first thing it tasks you to solve involves the company forcing survivors to have their wages garnished for suicides and that its feeding them food thats slowly poisoning them because their eventual slow deaths are cheaper than paying for real food. If you in another mission try to go for the "compromise" ending that other games love touting as the best solution between the rebels and the corporations things end up markedly worse than if you help the rebels just murder all the corporate people. Im not sure how you play the game and think its critique is that corporations are just "annoying" unless you actively choose to disengage with the work.
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May 25, 2020 01:52
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Come And See posted:And yet the movie repeatedly asks who "deserves" wealth and who "should" own those nice houses and fast cars. Again, you could only come to this conclusion if you didn’t watch the movie. Shaloub’s character is constantly portrayed as a colossal piece of poo poo who mistreats his employees, has contempt for everyone beneath him, and is only a regular human being at the Shabbat scene surrounded by his rich friends and family. He’s never portrayed in a sympathetic light except for the contrast of the absurdity of violence visited against him. Leaving out a simple fact from the real life story has nothing to do with the movie as a cohesive whole, which takes the mindset of American rugged individualism, and drives it to its natural conclusion, which is robbing people and murdering them like barbarians. You can call me illiterate as hard as you want, but you just chose to quickly paper over the fact that I entirely dismantled your bit about the main characters being an Occupy analogue by simply posting a clip from the opening five minutes of the film.
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May 25, 2020 01:57
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mycot posted:Wasn't a pretty common complaint about Outer Worlds was that it was technically satire but didn't really seem to get why corporations and rampant capitalism are bad other than them being annoying? Nah, like, as an offshoot of that article, probably the most interesting thing about Outer Worlds is it's the most depressing game I've ever played. I honestly can't believe anyone that actually played the game would come away with "companies are annoying" Barudak posted:I mean the first thing it tasks you to solve involves the company forcing survivors to have their wages garnished for suicides and that its feeding them food thats slowly poisoning them because their eventual slow deaths are cheaper than paying for real food. If you in another mission try to go for the "compromise" ending that other games love touting as the best solution between the rebels and the corporations things end up markedly worse than if you help the rebels just murder all the corporate people. Pretty much, people would complain about the game being "reactionary" but then it would turn out they chose that option because they personally thought it would be best. Like gently caress that man, I lead a bloody coup and actually gave the colony a future. People also acting like it's some flaw of the game that it lets you join up with the corporations if you want, and what, doesn't scold you? I don't get it. Pirate Jet posted:Yeah, it's Elizabeth Warren the Game. The final position it takes is that there's nothing wrong with capitalism as long as you keep those darn corporations from being too pushy in their marketing. Ah yes, the game where the government is planning on freezing the majority of the lower class rather than feeding them is about how annoying ads are. Great work there champ.
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May 25, 2020 01:59
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wyoming posted:I mean, yeah? But then the actual media becomes secondary - you can come up with a 'this is satire, actually' take for anything you care to name, the actual media doesn't matter. e: Birth of a Nation is an excellent piece of satire. Doctor Zaius fucked around with this message at 02:16 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 02:13
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Taintrunner posted:Again, you could only come to this conclusion if you didn’t watch the movie. Shaloub’s character is constantly portrayed as a colossal piece of poo poo who mistreats his employees, has contempt for everyone beneath him, and is only a regular human being at the Shabbat scene surrounded by his rich friends and family. He’s never portrayed in a sympathetic light except for the contrast of the absurdity of violence visited against him. I also love the ending where a well off guy in a river front house with it's own jetty wonders why some people are so greedy. Pain and Gain has a lot going on.
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May 25, 2020 02:25
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Outer Worlds was a huge disappointment after New Vegas.
Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 03:23 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 02:26
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The Outer Worlds had some horrendously laughable writing in trying to inorganically force shades of gray in a setting where they made corporations unambiguously and cartoonishly evil. And if you were hoping for some kind of emotional stakes, any emotional stakes in that game, well tough luck bud. Disco Elysium it ain't.
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May 25, 2020 02:44
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Doctor Zaius posted:But then the actual media becomes secondary - you can come up with a 'this is satire, actually' take for anything you care to name, the actual media doesn't matter. You need to actually back it up with a reading. Why are you so concerned about what someone might hypothetically "say", especially when you're the one already arguing in bad faith. Xarbala posted:The Outer Worlds had some horrendously laughable writing in trying to inorganically force shades of gray in a setting where they made corporations unambiguously and cartoonishly evil. I mean, IRL corporations are cartoonishly evil, yet you still have people touting Elon Musk as a genius boy working for the common good. Whatever your problems with the game may be, the believably of that situation ain't one of them. I haven't played Disco Elysium but I know that it will call you out if you keep talking big leftist points but then choose the centrist options. So apparently yes, people do need the game to directly scold them for it to be "good" wyoming fucked around with this message at 02:53 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 02:48
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Xarbala posted:The Outer Worlds had some horrendously laughable writing in trying to inorganically force shades of gray in a setting where they made corporations unambiguously and cartoonishly evil. Look here bud, you're gonna talk this dust buster into hooking up with an engineer in spite of her fear of alcohol. They're going to have a great asexual relationship Wait, what thread is this? Talk about movies, poo poo
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May 25, 2020 02:50
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wyoming posted:You need to actually back it up with a reading. Yes, and you can put together a 'this is brilliant satire' type read on anything that has ever been made, like say, a lukewarm RPG. It's just a creative writing exercise at that point. e: the same arguments with the same people happen over and over again on this subforum accross threads about vastly different movies because the movies aren't the point, it's ultimately about the people in the thread. Doctor Zaius fucked around with this message at 03:02 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 02:59
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Doctor Zaius posted:Yes, and you can put together a 'this is brilliant satire' type read on anything that has ever been made, like say, a lukewarm RPG. It's just a creative writing exercise at that point. If you can back it up with the text, what is your issue here? You're the one making outrageous claims of nonsense. Like, what is a "Lukewarm RPG" and, why can't it say anything? What makes it especially devoid of meaning. Are you really that mad people discussing film in cinema discusso?
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May 25, 2020 03:04
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wyoming posted:You need to actually back it up with a reading. Tbh that doesn't really argue that the game is funny, even if it's right/accurate.
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May 25, 2020 03:04
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wyoming posted:If you can back it up with the text, what is your issue here? You're the one making outrageous claims of nonsense. Like, what is a "Lukewarm RPG" and, why can't it say anything? What makes it especially devoid of meaning. The issue is that it becomes a masturbatory exercise that accomplishes dick all. e: Like if the goal isn't to establish some sort of 'goodness' or 'badness' of a film (which I'll concede is a pretty meaningless thing as well), and it's not to persuade people to some position or another, then what *is* the point beyond 'talking about film for the sake of talking about film. (which even then isn't really talking *about* the flim) Doctor Zaius fucked around with this message at 03:10 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 03:08
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wyoming posted:Ah yes, the game where the government is planning on freezing the majority of the lower class rather than feeding them is about how annoying ads are. Great work there champ. How am I supposed to respond to this base-level snark without starting a flamewar? Sorry I got you so mad with my opinion on a video game.
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May 25, 2020 03:10
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Pirate Jet posted:How am I supposed to respond to this base-level snark without starting a flamewar? Sorry I got you so mad with my opinion on a video game. And yet, you still responded??? I don't really care if you liked it or not, but ignoring the text to make up random insults is weird. Doctor Zaius posted:The issue is that it becomes a masturbatory exercise that accomplishes dick all. So we shouldn't talk about movies at all? Like, I don't understand why you think there should be something to accomplish, you read art, you can share your reading, people can agree or disagree. That's art. I really don't get your point. mycot posted:Tbh that doesn't really argue that the game is funny, even if it's right/accurate. The post I quoted was about it being believable, not funny. Like yeah, it's not a super funny game. Well Martin is hilarious, but still, in a very sad way.
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May 25, 2020 03:27
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Video games!
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May 25, 2020 03:40
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Doctor Zaius posted:If satire only reads as satire to people who are already on board with capitalism being a trash fire then I don't know if it's very useful as satire, intentional or unintentional. Like, obv this is an issue all satire has to deal with to some degree, there are people who think starship troopers is an unironic ooh-ra go military film, but I feel like 'the transformers movies are secretly scathing leftist takedowns of the american military-industrial complex' is a take that is pretty much exclusive to this subforum. Some people dont see the satire in starship troopers
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May 25, 2020 03:46
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Whatever happened to Pac Man? Every game these days is IRAQ Man!
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May 25, 2020 03:47
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The Saddest Rhino posted:Video games! Who greenlighted this video game derail Is covid screwing up video game production too? People have more time to play stuff at least Oh hey timely https://twitter.com/KenStachnik/status/1264284093669244930?s=20 got any sevens fucked around with this message at 05:25 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 05:12
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I mean the last of us is still on schedule
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May 25, 2020 05:32
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Doctor Zaius posted:The issue is that it becomes a masturbatory exercise that accomplishes dick all. Just like most art!
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May 25, 2020 06:09
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What are some more good modern camp movies? I like Jupiter Ascending, Huntsman: Winter's War, Fate of the Furious, Mirror Mirror...
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May 25, 2020 08:21
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Cats Dr Doolittle
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May 25, 2020 08:22
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got any sevens posted:What are some more good modern camp movies? Cabin in the Woods Tucker & Dale Vs. Evil Hobo with a Shotgun Machete Dark and Stormy Night Iron Sky Bubba Ho-Tep
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May 25, 2020 08:27
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got any sevens posted:What are some more good modern camp movies? -Upgrade (cyber-camp) -The Art of Self Defense (Jesse Eisenberg martial arts arthaus) -Cold Pursuit (hit or miss Liam Neeson revenge flick, but a solid 3/5 stars) -Bleeding Steel (oldass Jackie Chan doing sci-fi camp) -This Was The XFL (documentary, but still, what a story) -Ingrid Goes West (Aubrey Plaza gets high on Instagram)
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May 25, 2020 08:31
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Upgrade is so fuckin’ good.
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May 25, 2020 09:07
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V F W is not bad. Blood Machines has some interesting stuff (esp the climatic scene at the end) but boy does it have some dire editing and acting
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May 25, 2020 09:13
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Gonz posted:Upgrade is so fuckin’ good. The most impressive thing about it to me was the physical acting from the lead. He does a mind bogglingly excellent job at conveying having his body controlled by something else. I could watch hours of action scenes of him doing that shtick.
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May 25, 2020 12:28
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It's funny that Upgrade is a better Venom movie than Venom and the main guy looks a lot like Hardy. No-one has ever had this thought before, I'm sure.
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May 25, 2020 12:43
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Doctor Zaius posted:The issue is that it becomes a masturbatory exercise that accomplishes dick all. Besides the obvious point that you are not accomplishing anything with your writing, you are now experiencing how the act of truthfully analyzing art has a side-effect of spreading truth to others. (It’s simply that art does not exist in a utilitarian way, where we judge an object or work by the overall effect of how it maximizes net happiness or reduces alcoholism statistics or something.) Now multiple people are pointing out your mistakes, and your only response is... that you don’t care about mistakes because there’s no difference between truth and falsity? Although we clearly aren’t changing your mind and making you experience some epiphany, someone else reading the thread will likely side against you. Are your posts satire of postmodern cynicism? They could be read this way, but they really lack the element of exemplification. They aren’t going extreme enough with that logic, into more bizarre contortions to justify deceit. Nonetheless, truthful analysis has the same effect in any situation. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 12:56 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 12:54
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got any sevens posted:What are some more good modern camp movies? The Love Witch, In Fabric
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May 25, 2020 14:02
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got any sevens posted:What are some more good modern camp movies? Shoot'em Up and Crank come straight to mind. Oh, and Phantom Thread.
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May 25, 2020 14:12
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anatomi posted:It's funny that Upgrade is a better Venom movie than Venom and the main guy looks a lot like Hardy. No-one has ever had this thought before, I'm sure. Venom is much gayer from all accounts iirc FreudianSlippers posted:Whatever happened to Pac Man? He's in Smash Bros fighting Dracula
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May 25, 2020 15:47
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wyoming posted:I mean, yeah? By accident. Hill/die/etc.
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May 25, 2020 16:38
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Gonz posted:Upgrade is so fuckin’ good. 
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May 25, 2020 16:45
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got any sevens posted:Who greenlighted this video game derail What I’ve heard is Western companies managed to transition to “work at home” pretty smoothly, Japanese companies have had a slightly harder time because they’re used to everyone under the same roof. It’s mostly a question of if the company’s servers can handle the increased load of videoconferencing and large files being stored and accessed in the cloud and so on.
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May 25, 2020 17:51
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