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I still hold firm on the decision of having Clark utter "Martha" under duress was awkward and could have been better. Cavill's stilted delivery didn't really help the scene either. Like, I get it. I understand it. I just don't like the execution of that particular moment for how important it is in its purpose. BvS Ultimate Edition as a whole is still a great movie—better than Man of Steel for me—but that scene will always stick out as something that could have gone through a few more rewrites imo.
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May 25, 2020 21:47
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Yeah. That moment works in concept but definitely needed to be redone in some way.
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May 25, 2020 21:48
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EDIT: Sorry wrong thread. EDIT2: Cheers teagone, thanks for taking the effort to cover my idiocy. KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 23:37 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 22:13
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[edit] Lol, moving my response!
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May 25, 2020 22:21
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teagone posted:I still hold firm on the decision of having Clark utter "Martha" under duress was awkward and could have been better. Cavill's stilted delivery didn't really help the scene either. Like, I get it. I understand it. I just don't like the execution of that particular moment for how important it is in its purpose. BvS Ultimate Edition as a whole is still a great movie—better than Man of Steel for me—but that scene will always stick out as something that could have gone through a few more rewrites imo. The issue isn't Cavill's delivery, but the editing; the repetition of the line(s) takes away some of the desperation from the scene, even though everything else about it works fine. It seems like sort of thing where they really wanted to make sure nobody got confused, and overcompensated. Original version: Superman: You're letting them kill Martha... Wayne: What does that mean? Why did you say that name? Superman: Find him... Save Martha... Wayne: Why did you say that name? Martha? Why did you say that name? WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME? Quick edit: Superman: Find him... Save Martha... Wayne: What does that mean? Superman: *passes out* Wayne: Why did you say that name? Martha? Why did you say that name? WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?
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May 25, 2020 23:48
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The issue isn't Cavill's delivery, but the editing; the repetition of the line(s) takes away some of the desperation from the scene, even though everything else about it works fine. It seems like sort of thing where they really wanted to make sure nobody got confused, and overcompensated. Yeah I think the "passes out" part is what really needed to happen to show that he barely got a few semi-coherent words in a state of near unconsciousness. The fact that he stays awake and keeps talking while continuing to be cryptic badly muddles the intent.
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May 26, 2020 00:03
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KVeezy3 posted:This is a fantasy you've constructed. Think about it: if this really was the reception, why would the studio directly proceed to hand over an unprecedented level of creative control to Zach Snyder? Snyder had signed a multi-film contract with the studio and they had too many wheels in motion just to kick him off from negative reviews. It's a business and despite the bad press it still turned a profit, that's good enough for WB. They were directly trying to fast track to a Justice League movie, that was their clear M.O. at the time, not just make a good movie. On another note, when was the last time Snyder made a decent movie? The last one I can think of was what, 300, all the way back in 2007? His track record since then has been middling at best or just flat horrid, I'm surprised studios give him money for pictures from the lack of hits he's pumped out over the decade. White Light fucked around with this message at 01:06 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 01:03
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Parrotine posted:Snyder had signed a multi-film contract with the studio and they had too many wheels in motion just to kick him off from negative reviews. It's a business and despite the bad press and reviews it still turned a profit, that's good enough for WB. They were directly trying to fast track to a Justice League movie, that was their clear M.O. at the time, not just make a good movie. You've still remembered the film itself...poorly, to put it lightly.
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May 26, 2020 01:04
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Are Cinema Scores still considered a pretty good impression of opening night feelings? Man of Steel: A- BvS: B
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May 26, 2020 01:09
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Parrotine posted:On another note, when was the last time Snyder made a decent movie? The last one I can think of was what, 300, all the way back in 2007? I would wager it was 2016’s Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.
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May 26, 2020 01:10
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So are you here to talk about anything in particular besides Snyder Bad or Because we already answered your original question- Man of Steel has always been divisive. From Day One. Lots of people loved it, lots of people hated it. And this has no questions to it, just your opinions on Snyder and his movies.
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May 26, 2020 01:47
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The issue isn't Cavill's delivery, but the editing; the repetition of the line(s) takes away some of the desperation from the scene, even though everything else about it works fine. It seems like sort of thing where they really wanted to make sure nobody got confused, and overcompensated. This absolutely clears up any dissatisfaction I had with the original. I'm disappointed now they didn't do this. We all make mistakes but this was quite a key one with that movie.
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May 26, 2020 02:14
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Parrotine posted:Snyder had signed a multi-film contract with the studio and they had too many wheels in motion just to kick him off from negative reviews. It's a business and despite the bad press it still turned a profit, that's good enough for WB. They were directly trying to fast track to a Justice League movie, that was their clear M.O. at the time, not just make a good movie. I mean the answer to literally everything in this post is: he made movies that profited WB and people like working with him. Hell, WB are still working with him despite what an obvious failure he apparently is. He still has offices on the WB lot last I heard and he's a producer on the new Wonder Woman movie. The quality discussion is obviously subjective, you're gonna say his stuff is all poo poo which is fine but it has its fans (which is why he keeps getting to make movies, and seemingly will for the foreseeable future).
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May 26, 2020 02:15
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Man of Steel is the best superhero movie. At least in the last 15 years or so
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May 26, 2020 02:30
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AdmiralViscen posted:Man of Steel is the best superhero movie. At least in the last 15 years or so i dunno, spider-verse gets real drat close
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May 26, 2020 02:33
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Spider-Verse is super up there. I rarely see movies in theaters twice these days and pretty much subsided my friends tickets so I had an excuse to see it again. The most ironic thing about that movie was how Miles said that anyone can wear the mask, and well, look at us now.
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May 26, 2020 02:37
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Brother Entropy posted:i dunno, spider-verse gets real drat close Oh true, sure. I was thinking live action
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May 26, 2020 02:43
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AdmiralViscen posted:Man of Steel is the best superhero movie. At least in the last 15 years or so Mystery Men was 21 years ago and TMNT before that was 30 so this checks out
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May 26, 2020 02:57
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Spider-verse has some great moments but as a whole it kind of skeeved me out. Miles starts off as a sort of disillusioned punk and all his character development consists of sanding off his rough edges, scaring him straight, shaming him into compliance, and concludes with him literally being turned into a product. Its gorgeous but after a certain point I just couldn't shake the feeling that the kid was being played.
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May 26, 2020 03:08
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Schwarzwald posted:Spider-verse has some great moments but as a whole it kind of skeeved me out. Miles starts off as a sort of disillusioned punk and all his character development consists of sanding off his rough edges, scaring him straight, shaming him into compliance, and concludes with him literally being turned into a product. That's because the real victory for Miles would be fighting his dad, the cops, not his uncle. Instead he just becomes another cop
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May 26, 2020 03:10
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Schwarzwald posted:Spider-verse has some great moments but as a whole it kind of skeeved me out. Miles starts off as a sort of disillusioned punk and all his character development consists of sanding off his rough edges, scaring him straight, shaming him into compliance, and concludes with him literally being turned into a product. i feel like that's kind of an uncharitable read on miles' character arc, which is a pretty stock 'unsure teenager learns to rise to the challenges of life, inspired by the people around him' arc (minus that last part you mention, that scene would be way better without bringing back the weird comic book cover framing device as that last shot of his triumphant moment)
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May 26, 2020 03:14
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Here's something fun: a guy watches Man of Steel for the first time. He says some interesting stuff from the perspective of a more casual guy. Also really funny: he has no idea who the director is until the end. He also has no Superman knowledge other than some names and stuff. https://youtu.be/X2guoyPjE0M
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May 26, 2020 03:24
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NotJustANumber99 posted:This absolutely clears up any dissatisfaction I had with the original. I'm disappointed now they didn't do this. We all make mistakes but this was quite a key one with that movie. Yeah, I agree, this dramatically improved that scene.
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May 26, 2020 04:33
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Burkion posted:That's because the real victory for Miles would be fighting his dad, the cops, not his uncle. Miles fights his uncle's employer to prevent kidnapping across dimensions. The uncle nearly kills his own nephew. However, I would agree that making his dad Officer Jefferson Davis is a hell of a coincidence.
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May 26, 2020 06:01
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Burkion posted:That's because the real victory for Miles would be fighting his dad, the cops, not his uncle. He kinda does? Like, the dad overcomes the stick in his rear end and he opens up to Miles mostly due to Miles' growing resistance to the dad's pressure.
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May 26, 2020 06:49
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Space Fish posted:Miles fights his uncle's employer to prevent kidnapping across dimensions. The uncle nearly kills his own nephew. That name's straight from the comics. The Ultimate universe is uh... a bit of a ride. Funny thing is that since so much of Miles Morales' comic characterisation had been stolen by MCU Peter Parker, Spider-verse basically had to invent a personality from scratch for him, and they succeeded by making him kind of the opposite of Peter as an extroverted, creative and artistically inclined kid still figuring out his place in the world, while Peter B is specifically a Peter Parker throwback to the Ditko version as an aloof, selfish introvert.
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May 26, 2020 07:09
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I think the only thing I hate more than the articles that try to twist the conversation so that every single person who wanted the Snyder cut was an alt right shithead who's an entitled child or whatever bullshit are the counter videos that are hosted by people who don't give a poo poo about the Snyder Cut and are just using it as an excuse to poo poo on people they don't like, and only nominally support what's going on because it happens to align with their own views. There's just some shifty, click bait bullshit to that that I cannot stand.
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May 26, 2020 08:25
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Spider-verse is near perfection - and it once again shows that studios need to gently caress off minus giving money. Also it's a huge poo poo on Disney since they hosed over Lord and Miller on Solo which tanked the Star Wars side-story movies. They get fired, get more room to work on Spider-verse and proceed to win it all.
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May 26, 2020 15:24
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I think Marvel, Lucasfilm, and Disney at large all have different levels of how much they interfere in projects, with Lucasfilm being the most and Marvel being the least, though you still see a lot of interference on Marvel projects especially the 'riskier' ones like Ant-Man and Dr Strange. Of the studios I'm not sure any match what WB did to Justice League and Suicide Squad, though WB seems to have learned their lesson and there's no evidence Lucasfilm has. (Rise of Skywalker I actually don't consider an example of this because they fired the director early enough in pre production that Abrams seems to have basically made what he wanted, which matched up with what they wanted for better or worse. But Solo and Rogue One and TFA were egregious in their interference)
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May 26, 2020 15:42
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Burkion posted:I think the only thing I hate more than the articles that try to twist the conversation so that every single person who wanted the Snyder cut was an alt right shithead who's an entitled child or whatever bullshit are the counter videos that are hosted by people who don't give a poo poo about the Snyder Cut and are just using it as an excuse to poo poo on people they don't like, and only nominally support what's going on because it happens to align with their own views. There's just some shifty, click bait bullshit to that that I cannot stand. The culture wars in a nutshell is people taking some completely inconsequential issue and inventing pretty much all of the reasons and context in their head as a strawman they can totally pwn with Facts and Logic based on some half-remembered first impression and a piece of media they enjoyed or didn't enjoy
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May 26, 2020 16:34
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I think Marvel, Lucasfilm, and Disney at large all have different levels of how much they interfere in projects, with Lucasfilm being the most and Marvel being the least, though you still see a lot of interference on Marvel projects especially the 'riskier' ones like Ant-Man and Dr Strange. I feel like the key difference with Marvel is that they already have things locked down so tightly that it's rare for them to let a project get too out of bounds in the first place. The Star Wars stuff between JJ's bookends all started out being creator-driven projects that they apparently freaked out about and decided to go in and mangle, the most similar Marvel project was Wright's Ant-Man and that got nipped in the bud super early.
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May 26, 2020 16:50
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Homora Gaykemi posted:Mystery Men was 21 years ago and TMNT before that was 30 so this checks out As an aside, I've always been soft on SUICIDE SQUAD because it reminds of Mystery Men.
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May 26, 2020 16:50
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Here's something fun: a guy watches Man of Steel for the first time. He says some interesting stuff from the perspective of a more casual guy. Also really funny: he has no idea who the director is until the end. The Snyderdome: "Y'all screwed!" I think this sort of thing is always fun; seeing reactions to some piece of pop culture while somehow having zero actual exposure to whatever it is.
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May 26, 2020 16:56
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:As an aside, I've always been soft on SUICIDE SQUAD because it reminds of Mystery Men. I like Suicide Squad in spite of itself. It's a summer blockbuster in a popular franchise that takes the position that the only difference between an NSA spook and an ancient sorceress trying to mind control the world is aesthetics, and the only people who can effectively oppose either are the dispossessed. I really hope Ayer gets his director's cut.
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May 26, 2020 17:23
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NotJustANumber99 posted:This absolutely clears up any dissatisfaction I had with the original. I'm disappointed now they didn't do this. We all make mistakes but this was quite a key one with that movie. It’s not a mistake; they deliberately went with an awkward and explicit line over something more naturalistic. But why go against nature? Well, the entire point of the scene (and of the film) is that Superman can’t admit why this Martha woman is important to him. He learned from the battle in Africa that prioritizating his family’s safety can compromise his ethics, and he doesn’t want that to happen again. That the why Luthor is doing all this in the first place: he’s trying to prove that Superman is ‘only human’, and therefore dangerous - that, when the chips are down, Superman will act selfishly. So while the obvious and natural dialogue would be “you’re letting them kill my mom”, Superman is struggling very hard not to say that. He’s steadfastly maintaining his ‘secret identity’ even though it means his mother will probably die. Crying out for mommy would represent the death of what Superman stands for and prove Luthor right, which would be much worse for him than just bodily death. (This, of course, foreshadows his later crucifixion and ‘reincarnation’ as a Holy Spirit in the community of believers.) So the awkwardness of the line reflects the 'awkward' internal struggle of the character, in a way that something more naturalistic would not. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:38 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 17:33
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:As an aside, I've always been soft on SUICIDE SQUAD because it reminds of Mystery Men. I can't believe I didn't make this connection. RBA Starblade posted:I think this sort of thing is always fun; seeing reactions to some piece of pop culture while somehow having zero actual exposure to whatever it is. Watching a guy who literally doesn't know how Superman gets his powers offer various theories was interesting. And the big win for the movie, when early on the guy says "well I don't see how I'm going to enjoy this, I mean Superman is basically invincible right?" to "I can't believe I'm tense in a Superman movie" was really nice to see. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 17:40 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 17:36
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Guy A. Person posted:I feel like the key difference with Marvel is that they already have things locked down so tightly that it's rare for them to let a project get too out of bounds in the first place. The Star Wars stuff between JJ's bookends all started out being creator-driven projects that they apparently freaked out about and decided to go in and mangle, the most similar Marvel project was Wright's Ant-Man and that got nipped in the bud super early. I think Solo might have been an early warning sign that Lucasfilm has no real idea what they're doing with making the movies and interferes both too much and not enough. Marvel Studios enforces a consistent tone across the MCU, which while having plenty to criticise, tends to mean there's at least a level of consistency where if you like one you'll probably enjoy the rest. The sequel trilogy lacks a consistent voice and ends up at war with itself, as well as suffering from the JJ Abrams patented Mystery Box with a hasty, stupid conclusion' where they clearly have no idea what they're actually going to do with all this foreshadowing. I still prefer my mental image of TROS where Palpatine is a necromancer commanding a ghost fleet of Star Destroyer hulks and animated empty suits of Stormtrooper armour. More on topic: The whole Martha sequence works thematically when you realise it's Batman turning away from re-enacting Joe Chill and instead realises he's Superman's spiritual brother, and in his mind, rescuing Martha becomes a do-over of that night. With of course the capstone being Martha greeting him like one of little Clark's friends from school. A lot of people miss that Batman is a childish character, and that's what makes him interesting. He's frozen like a photograph that night in the alley. Been compared that while the Punisher is an adult who loses his family to violence and becomes a grown man's idea of vengeance- wearing a symbol of death and killing the bad guys with guns- Batman is a child who loses his family and become's a child's idea of vengeance, becoming a symbol of fear and enforcing less vulgar law and more the base rules of right and wrong as he understands them. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 19:23 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 19:17
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edit, nm missed part of the post somehow.
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May 26, 2020 19:23
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I still prefer my mental image of TROS where Palpatine is a necromancer commanding a ghost fleet of Star Destroyer hulks and animated empty suits of Stormtrooper armour. That horror-ish opening sequence is one of the only good things about TROS, so they definitely should have leaned into it more.
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May 26, 2020 19:25
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Even in Snyder's "grim and gritty" tales (lol) Batman is not a cold-blooded murderer. Every kill he puts out in that movie is against some merc scumbag trying to kill him at the time, and he never does it without provocation. Every single person he engages has a chance to Just Walk Away...and they don't do it. When it comes time to ice a guy he's beaten, he has to sit there talking himself into it with stories about his childhood lessons. His heart ain't in it which is why a single word can completely snap him out of it.
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May 26, 2020 20:59
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