awful programming: feature flags and suffering

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > awful programming: feature flags and suffering

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Brain Candy: May 18, 2006

Antigravitas posted:

I know we could just fill this thread with this language, but what the gently caress were people smoking when they decided to have automatic unboxing in Powershell?

I once-a-loving-gain found a subtle bug in a script that would break if a specific function returned an array of one element, which it rarely would.

To fix it you replace every return $ret with return ,$ret in all your code. Just everywhere. That's the sane thing to do.

I hate this language. Hate. Hate. Hate.

they were trying to create bash for windows, they succeeded?

# ? May 26, 2020 15:22

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 13:25

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

bash is a cautionary tale, not something to emulate.

# ? May 26, 2020 15:28

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

pointsofdata posted:

of all the dumb js library names, "joi" has to be the worst

If you like that you should check out the love2d ecosystem

# ? May 26, 2020 16:41

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Antigravitas posted:

bash is a cautionary tale, not something to emulate.

yeah powershell has a ton of problems that are all related to emulating bash and other Linux type shells.

it should have just been c# script instead of the hybrid mess it is

# ? May 26, 2020 16:48

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Shaggar posted:

yeah powershell has a ton of problems that are all related to emulating bash and other Linux type shells.

it should have just been c# script instead of the hybrid mess it is

a c# based shell without the powershell cruft would be so good

# ? May 26, 2020 17:13

animist: Aug 28, 2018

would a c# shell still have, like, entirely c# syntax or would there be shortcuts for calling functions and stuff?

i guess minimizing keystrokes isn't such a big deal w/ good autocomplete

# ? May 26, 2020 17:30

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

i would expect and prefer shortcuts for common stuff and it would still have to support piping and such of course

# ? May 26, 2020 17:32

raminasi: Jan 25, 2005; a last drink with no ice

every time i work with powershell i feel like the language designer actively hates me. other tools are annoying because of what feels like oversight or cut corners or bad tradeoffs but only powershell gives me the sense of malice.

# ? May 26, 2020 17:37

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

I tried another running app today, RunKeeper, by ASICS. Very basic app, can only log runs, cannot beep on distances like any other app would do. So with very little on the box, can it succeed?

Nope, some how it manages to record heartbeat, time, syncs with Apple, but cannot record any movement whatsoever. The Apple app rubs it in by showing the 3+ miles moved.

Terrible programmers are everywhere.

# ? May 26, 2020 17:43

mystes: May 31, 2006

MrMoo posted:

I tried another running app today, RunKeeper, by ASICS. Very basic app, can only log runs, cannot beep on distances like any other app would do. So with very little on the box, can it succeed?

Nope, some how it manages to record heartbeat, time, syncs with Apple, but cannot record any movement whatsoever. The Apple app rubs it in by showing the 3+ miles moved.

Terrible programmers are everywhere.

This thread is only for programming that programmers would think is terrible which obviously doesn't include bugs that only affect (makes disgusted face) users.

# ? May 26, 2020 18:08

CmdrRiker: Apr 8, 2016; You dismally untalented little creep!

animist posted:

i check my dependencies into git but not my source code. I keep that on npm to stay extra cutting edge

"Works on my machine."

# ? May 26, 2020 19:31

Hed: Mar 31, 2004; Fun Shoe

If I�m using ~~Office~~ Microsoft 365 is there any integration to using GitHub yet?

on a greenfield team was going to go with GitLab out of inertia but that�s mainly because I was coming from a land of on-premise self-hosted.

# ? May 26, 2020 21:45

mystes: May 31, 2006

Hed posted:

If I�m using ~~Office~~ Microsoft 365 is there any integration to using GitHub yet?

on a greenfield team was going to go with GitLab out of inertia but that�s mainly because I was coming from a land of on-premise self-hosted.

I don't think there's any integration, thank god. If it was run by the Office people they'd probably replace git with SharePoint.

# ? May 26, 2020 21:56

Fiedler: Jun 29, 2002; I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

Hed posted:

If I�m using ~~Office~~ Microsoft 365 is there any integration to using GitHub yet?

on a greenfield team was going to go with GitLab out of inertia but that�s mainly because I was coming from a land of on-premise self-hosted.

use azure devops

# ? May 26, 2020 23:12

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

We currently have a monorepo containing about a dozen separately-built projects all depending on some common includes. We're transitioning soon from P4 to Git so I've got a window to reorganize this

My problem is how to actually do that; the only tool I know well for the task is git submodule and that particular tool sucks arse

(ed) or if I even want to do so; a lot of the Googleable Internet seems to think monorepos are a good thing for various reasons that only halfway make sense to me

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 14:59 on May 27, 2020

# ? May 27, 2020 14:53

Phobeste: Apr 9, 2006; never, like, count out Touchdown Tom, man

what about having each project be a separate repo that has the common includes as git subtrees?

# ? May 27, 2020 15:00

Brain Candy: May 18, 2006

animist posted:

would a c# shell still have, like, entirely c# syntax or would there be shortcuts for calling functions and stuff?

i guess minimizing keystrokes isn't such a big deal w/ good autocomplete

it could have been like awk, where it feels c-ish but you have reduced generality (so and complexity) and more convenience

# ? May 27, 2020 15:04

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

Phobeste posted:

what about having each project be a separate repo that has the common includes as git subtrees?

thanks, I'll look at that

I can virtually guarantee one particular developer running headfirst into "The responsibility of not mixing super and sub-project code in commits lies with you." though. Unless by "you" they mean me, the person putting in this subtree stuff, rather than developers working with it later; I'll keep reading

[that developer may or may not be me, no jury will convict me]

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 15:09 on May 27, 2020

# ? May 27, 2020 15:05

Brain Candy: May 18, 2006

it's a general lesson in design & abstraction:

taking something like c and boiling it down and making it more specific leads to a gem like awk

taking something simple and building it up leads to bash, javascript, and perl

if you don't have a fixed end goal, you are going to have to grow which means warts since you are going to make missteps you have to keep around

# ? May 27, 2020 15:11

cool av: Mar 2, 2013

Ciaphas posted:

We currently have a monorepo containing about a dozen separately-built projects all depending on some common includes. We're transitioning soon from P4 to Git so I've got a window to reorganize this

My problem is how to actually do that; the only tool I know well for the task is git submodule and that particular tool sucks arse

(ed) or if I even want to do so; a lot of the Googleable Internet seems to think monorepos are a good thing for various reasons that only halfway make sense to me

what're you trying to accomplish by reorganizing it. smaller checkouts? preventing accidental circular dependency commits?

# ? May 27, 2020 15:56

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

cool av posted:

what're you trying to accomplish by reorganizing it. smaller checkouts? preventing accidental circular dependency commits?

as I explore, the answer to that question is turning into "not very much". AFAICT it would mean an easier time with Jenkins and vaguely clearer divisions of responsibility and that's about it

"monorepo is fine for my case" is perfectly acceptable, i'm just exploring right now

# ? May 27, 2020 16:01

Phobeste: Apr 9, 2006; never, like, count out Touchdown Tom, man

Ciaphas posted:

thanks, I'll look at that

I can virtually guarantee one particular developer running headfirst into "The responsibility of not mixing super and sub-project code in commits lies with you." though. Unless by "you" they mean me, the person putting in this subtree stuff, rather than developers working with it later; I'll keep reading

[that developer may or may not be me, no jury will convict me]

Ciaphas posted:

as I explore, the answer to that question is turning into "not very much". AFAICT it would mean an easier time with Jenkins and vaguely clearer divisions of responsibility and that's about it

"monorepo is fine for my case" is perfectly acceptable, i'm just exploring right now

yeah i mean the real use case is to treat the common includes like a dependency, with dependency management tools rather than version control tools. there are unfortunately not many good dependency management tools for c++ source dependencies (at least I think; I certainly can't recommend any), but using git for this is going to be painful somehow, using subtrees vs modules vs whatever is just letting you Choose Your Pain

# ? May 27, 2020 16:06

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

you're talking about something like npm or NuGet, I suppose? 'cos yeah having that would definitely help

I *guess* cmake ExternalProject_Add would fill the niche too but that feels sketch af for reasons i can't articulate yet

# ? May 27, 2020 16:56

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

in any case I don't think any of the monorepo disadvantages really apply to us so I think i'm okay with that particular status staying quo

# ? May 27, 2020 17:12

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

pointsofdata posted:

of all the dumb js library names, "joi" has to be the worst

I, too, get my software from walmart

# ? May 27, 2020 18:55

Blinkz0rz: May 27, 2001; MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS

trying to release a hotfix

jenkins down

no gods no masters

# ? May 27, 2020 22:34

abraham linksys: Sep 6, 2010

can you run through your build manually or somethin? or just do a rollback to an older version

everyone at work likes to merge a revert PR and deploy that when something breaks, but that process takes like 45 minutes between building and testing the revert branch, merging, and building and testing master, and i always get annoyed when we have a critical bug and no one just thinks to deploy an older built docker image from a past deploy and prod is just broken for 45 minutes for no reason

ofc this is in a frontend context where you don't have to worry about doing schema migrations down or whatever which is more complicated

# ? May 27, 2020 23:37

Blinkz0rz: May 27, 2001; MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS

nah, it affected 2 customers that used a cross-product feature so we just waited until jenkins came back up and released

didn't take too long cause it turns out our build infra and it teams are actually good at their jobs

# ? May 28, 2020 00:55

animist: Aug 28, 2018

Brain Candy posted:

it's a general lesson in design & abstraction:

taking something like c and boiling it down and making it more specific leads to a gem like awk

taking something simple and building it up leads to bash, javascript, and perl

if you don't have a fixed end goal, you are going to have to grow which means warts since you are going to make missteps you have to keep around

# ? May 28, 2020 02:51

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

ugh why is handling tiff files in python such a pain in the rear end

they keep getting hosed up. tried pillow & tifffile

# ? May 28, 2020 08:19

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Blinkz0rz posted:

nah, it affected 2 customers that used a cross-product feature so we just waited until jenkins came back up and released

didn't take too long cause it turns out our build infra and it teams are actually good at their jobs

well, good at their jobs while still having their infra going down without apparent redundancy?

# ? May 28, 2020 08:46

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

lmao this is the worst

code:

if self.exif['Image Compression'].printable == 'JPEG (old-style)':
  a = tifffile.imread(self.imagepath)
  self._image = PIL.Image.fromarray(a) # TODO loses original DPI...
else:
  self._image = PIL.Image.open(self.imagepath)

tiff is such a shitshow

# ? May 28, 2020 09:28

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

just use FITS and have n-dimensional images

# ? May 28, 2020 10:51

Blinkz0rz: May 27, 2001; MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS

Sagacity posted:

well, good at their jobs while still having their infra going down without apparent redundancy?

i mean idk the details but from what i've read it seems like both the primary and secondary firewalls in our dc went down or were severely limited at the same time which affected outbound traffic so i can't really fault the team for that

# ? May 28, 2020 18:29

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

Progressive JPEG posted:

just use FITS and have n-dimensional images

tbh i wanna just delete everything but then id get fired

# ? May 28, 2020 18:40

whose tuggin: Nov 6, 2009; by Hand Knit

the lead programmer will let 2 hrs go by without responding after I slack him asking a question, but when I follow up that I figured it out on my own he posts a thumbs up emoji within 5 minutes

# ? May 28, 2020 18:54

Brain Candy: May 18, 2006

The Scientist posted:

the lead programmer will let 2 hrs go by without responding after I slack him asking a question, but when I follow up that I figured it out on my own he posts a thumbs up emoji within 5 minutes

this is a pro-technique, you have a good lead

# ? May 28, 2020 18:59

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Brain Candy posted:

this is a pro-technique, you have a good lead

# ? May 28, 2020 19:11

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

The Scientist posted:

the lead programmer will let 2 hrs go by without responding after I slack him asking a question, but when I follow up that I figured it out on my own he posts a thumbs up emoji within 5 minutes

Wait am I your lead?

# ? May 28, 2020 19:34

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 13:25

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

that rubber ducky thing works.

If i can't figure something out, i get a new email window to the person i think knows the solution. I remove their name from the TO: field and start describing the issue in detail. 80% of the time the process of describing the issue will lead me down the path I needed to be led down to answer my problem.

If I get to the end and still dont know wtf, i add their name and hit send.

Works great.

# ? May 28, 2020 19:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > awful programming: feature flags and suffering

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