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AradoBalanga posted:Are you prepared for Patrick Seitz to take over the role, if Theo gets more lines? Sure why not. I'm not sure who voices him in the dance games but they have the correct Theo voice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T093CX_ARqQ Look at this! Look at how much nicer he is to Lavenza than the other two. He's a good egg and deserves better than to dress up as popcorn and be a vendor. This is my Theofesto.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:11
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Arist posted:My problem is really that, come the gently caress on ZMB, we all loving know the Ken thing is gross, why do you bring it up every single loving time anyone talks about liking Minako as a character? It's really weird and doesn't actually make sense as some consistent principle you hold. Because Persona's a franchise filled with really lovely and gross poo poo that largely gets glossed over or ignored by the playerbase at large and P3P's lady route is constantly touted as "Actually this one is really good!" especially in this thread anytime P3 is brought up when it's got some of the worst poo poo in the franchise that isn't P5's entire morally cowardly writing.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:12
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Because Persona's a franchise filled with really lovely and gross poo poo that largely getting glossed over or ignored by the playerbase at large and P3P's lady route is constantly touted as "Actually this one is really good!" especially in this thread anytime P3 is brought up when it's got some of the worst poo poo in the franchise that isn't P5's entire morally cowardly writing. https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1259977589713764354
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Jun 10, 2020 02:13
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Theo's current VA is Bryce Papenbrook, he's been voicing him since Q. I preferred Travis Willingham's Theo, however.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:14
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In a topic about the writing in these games going "No it's just as lovely as the rest of them" anytime someone pops up to go "No THIS is the one with the good writing" isn't me bringing some tangential sin of the game.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:15
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Arist posted:My problem is really that, come the gently caress on ZMB, we all loving know the Ken thing is gross, why do you bring it up every single loving time anyone talks about liking Minako as a character? It's really weird and doesn't actually make sense as some consistent principle you hold. ZMB has an actual problem with this. They've decided that any opinion I have on FFXIV is invalid because they willfully misinterpreted my opinion on a late-game area. Only they ever bring it up, but they bring it up every time.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:17
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Cleretic posted:ZMB has an actual problem with this. They've decided that any opinion I have on FFXIV is invalid because they willfully misinterpreted my opinion on a late-game area. Only they ever bring it up, but they bring it up every time. That whole thread makes fun of you for getting actual plot points you're talking about wrong and making things up repeatedly. I bring that up when you start derails doing it cause it's incredibly enervating reading other people having discussions about theme and plot to only have you bumble in, slam a few incredibly bad reads down and then get corrected for 3 pages until you just go "OH I didn't actually read that plot bit."
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Jun 10, 2020 02:19
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Dude, you're not pushing past some forbidden barrier, casting light upon some harsh truth. People are saying they like a fun character, and you unfailingly pop in and go "pedophile!!!!" like you're publishing a loving expose on the Catholic church. I honestly find it really gauche how easily you're willing to toss poo poo like that around just to be a gigantic wet blanket.
Arist fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 02:21
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Arist posted:Theo's current VA is Bryce Papenbrook, he's been voicing him since Q. I preferred Travis Willingham's Theo, however.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:23
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Because Persona's a franchise filled with really lovely and gross poo poo that largely gets glossed over or ignored by the playerbase at large and P3P's lady route is constantly touted as "Actually this one is really good!" especially in this thread anytime P3 is brought up when it's got some of the worst poo poo in the franchise that isn't P5's entire morally cowardly writing. What you don't seem to get is that everyone is aware it is stupid. It is also completely optional and not something anyone will see unless they actively attempt to go for it. People are aware it is dumb but it is one loving thing that is optional. Nobody says it is good but it's one of those things people have to shrug at when it involves a really stupid thing in a specific game, which Persona is not remotely exclusive to. Your argument, as near as I can tell, boils down to "this has a stupid thing and ergo is forever ruined." It is pretty loving obvious that when people say Minako's writing is better it does not involve that specific thing which is crappy and stupid. Like loving hell man. I love JRPGs but I also am not unwilling to acknowledge that the vast majority of them feature teenage characters who are frequently sexualized. It is gross. I don't like it. That doesn't mean it is impossible for me to look past that if the content is optional or avoidable. The fact you hyper-focus on this one specific thing makes it come across more like you're upset people saying anything positive about P3P's protagonist.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:27
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minakos pretty neat imo, but bringing up the Bad ken SL every time someone discusses how much they like her just sounds really obnoxious honestly. like every now and again, yeah sure that's totally fair, but every time??ImpAtom posted:At bare minimum it does not get brought up every single loving time someone mentions Joker. to even the scales out, someone should say kawakami et al are pedos every time they're mentioned 
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Jun 10, 2020 02:28
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ImpAtom posted:At bare minimum it does not get brought up every single loving time someone mentions Joker. What age gap, Jun is the same age as his canonical boyfriend Tatsuya 
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Jun 10, 2020 02:32
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Minako has a dumb s. link with ken and her route still has far and away the most thoughtful writing of any modern persona. These things arent mutually exclusive.
Endorph fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 02:32
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I was like 16 when i played p3p and aigis worrying about whether its okay to love another girl and minako going 'its not just okay its badass' completely changed my view of the world You can criticize a dumb element without acting like it somehow takes away from the things people clearly got out of the game that aren't in other modern persona games.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:34
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Ibram Gaunt posted:PQ2 gave her a real personality and that's good yeah but I think people vastly oversell how much actual character she has in P3P proper. And I didn't word it very well but by giving minato those s.links I just meant giving him party member s links not just copy pasting...I agree that her mode ends up better simply because of the s link changes and stuff but I don't think basically any of it has to do with her as a character and I find it weird to see people assert otherwise for so long. It really isn't surprising people see her as a breath of fresh air compared to the other persona guys, even if she's still ultimately a self insert protag in largely the same story as minato
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Jun 10, 2020 02:39
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ImpAtom posted:What you don't seem to get is that everyone is aware it is stupid. It is also completely optional and not something anyone will see unless they actively attempt to go for it. People are aware it is dumb but it is one loving thing that is optional. Nobody says it is good but it's one of those things people have to shrug at when it involves a really stupid thing in a specific game, which Persona is not remotely exclusive to. Your argument, as near as I can tell, boils down to "this has a stupid thing and ergo is forever ruined." It is pretty loving obvious that when people say Minako's writing is better it does not involve that specific thing which is crappy and stupid. Alright fine here's a very sincere and effortful post about why I"m so testy about it The shift in tone for the answers the mostly personality-less protag gets to pick doesn't form a massively significant boost in the writing of the core story of the game, and while some of the new S Links are fine to good, most are as forgettable as the things they're replacing (And the ones that are good are often really only in comparison to the girl party members they're replacing because P3's original script handles its lady cast poorly to say the least). Outside of that it's still largely the P3 plot and character writing, the majority of which is straight up not good and the bits that aren't feel incredibly disconnected because you see everyones character arcs in what boil down to 3 soliloquies each and then they achieve their final forms. So while P3P's lady route is probably better than its counterpart it's still not good nor does it overcome the pit falls all the persona games gleefully rush headlong into, which is mostly hating gay people and making sexual assault into a joke except for when a designated bad guy does it, all while largely being praised as well written and good in the greater public sphere. Which is why it's so frustrating to see this thread jump into pushing it as The Good One To Play when it's as bad as the rest (and worse in some regards) especially for a franchise explicitly about people and their emotions and how society fits in to all of that. Endorph posted:I was like 16 when i played p3p and aigis worrying about whether its okay to love another girl and minako going 'its not just okay its badass' completely changed my view of the world Endorph posted:Minako has a dumb s. link with ken and her route still has far and away the most thoughtful writing of any modern persona. These things arent mutually exclusive. And to be fair, these are fair points, and P5, as I stated earlier, is acutally probably the absolute nadir of all of my issues with the persona franchise and I should probably be more mad about it but usually it's brought up in the context of "HEy this is bad" in this thread. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 02:43
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The reason Minako is so good is because while Minato's quiet gloom generally made sense for the tone P3 was going for, it really just engendered a sense of apathy and disconnection, like a lot of the game's creative decisions, and counteracted the ultimate message. Meanwhile, Minako, caring and peppy and energetic in a world falling to entropy and smiling despite the tragedy of her history, seems more initially dissonant but really strengthens connection and attachment. In Minato's path, everyone just kind of sucks, including Minato. In Minako's route, you're playing as someone who it actually seems possible for the characters and player to care about, to actively want to survive. That's just so much loving better.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:45
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Also, her being a girl has an effect on just all of the incidental ways the party members interact with you junpei definitely shows his rear end a lot more instead of just being Your Kinda lovely Bro, and mitsuru and yukari feel more solidarity with you
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Jun 10, 2020 02:45
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Arist posted:The reason Minako is so good is because while Minato's quiet gloom generally made sense for the tone P3 was going for, it really just engendered a sense of apathy and disconnection, like a lot of the game's creative decisions, and counteracted the ultimate message. Meanwhile, Minako, caring and peppy and energetic in a world falling to entropy and smiling despite the tragedy of her history, seems more initially dissonant but really strengthens connection and attachment. In Minato's path, everyone just kind of sucks, including Minato. In Minako's route, you're playing as someone who it actually seems possible for the characters and player to care about, to actively want to survive. That's just so much loving better. The first point I can agree with the latter I cannot be farther from you. The whole cast of P3 being sad and depressed and kind of lovely but dragging each other kicking and screaming into being better people who ultimately put it all on the line for the world fits the ensemble cast thing P3's going for a bit better. P3 spends a lot more time with you just watchign the other party members do poo poo without the protag around than 4 or 5 does so it feels a little more like its also their story. Like it's Shinji who pulls Akihiko out of his funk who then passes it on to ken. Yuakri and Mitsuru do the same for each other. Junpei has Chihiro (? The gothic lolita lady) and Aigis has you. Everyone's a little sad and meandering but find something to hold onto in their sorrows together and it works a bit better with the more somber protag than the happier one who makes it seems more like they're leaning on her in a way that the casts of P4 and p5 do for their protag. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 02:48
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Alright fine here's a very sincere and effortful post about why I"m so testy about it Well, to be honest, you're being a dick here. You are upset that people like the Persona series. Or like even one part of the Persona series. You personally feel this way about the series and that's fine but your response is to start using the word pedophile in response to make sure everyone knows it is Bad and Wrong. Persona is a series that has problems. It also has strong moments aside from those problems, either in individual character moments or characters or specific tones and atmospheres that appeal to people. If it doesn't work for you it doesn't work for you but demanding that everyone focus on the lovely parts every time it is brought up in any positive fashion helps absolutely nothing. It is fine to dislike something but when you use intentionally inflammatory language to do so your goal is just to be angry at people who like a thing. It is also entirely possible for people to compartmentalize bad and good parts and enjoy something despite the bad parts while recognizing they exist. This is something pretty much everyone has to do because the vast majority of video games, movies, television shows, books or podcasts have 'eeergh' moments. I love Ghostbusters but it's a movie about how the EVIL EPA is keeping the Hard Working Man Down and where the most popular and arguably most funny character is a borderline rapist at the best of times. I will still recommend Ghostbusters to people despite that because it's possible to like parts of it without liking others.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:53
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Varinn posted:Also, her being a girl has an effect on just all of the incidental ways the party members interact with you But it's not just Junpei being a shithead either, which is why it's so great! Like, yes, he gets sexist and resentful about you being the leader, but he also becomes your best loving friend and the only opposite-gender classmate in the entirety of modern Persona you can't date, which rules. One of my favorite Social Link events in the game is when Junpei takes Minako aside and reveals that someone's been taking creepshots of her, and he's trying to hide how pissed off he is and subtly tell you he's looking out for you. That dynamic doesn't even exist anywhere else in the series. I also really, really love the entire arc of Minako saving Shinjiro, as fan-ficcy as it is. One of my biggest problems with P3's structure is that the party is always reactive, always on the back foot. They never make choices or are even placed in positions where they are able to make choices, they just go with the flow, and usually the thing they were already doing is the thing they were supposed to be doing anyway. But P3P lets you actually have a pretty touching doomed romance where you can save Shinji's life... and then get ripped out of it in what must be the cruelest loving way possible. I don't think I actually like Persona 3 now that I think about it, I only like Minako's story. Arist fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 02:53
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I mean, the thing is, P3P... is better about not hating gay people and not making sexual assault a joke? The feMC route in P3P doesn't have that trans 'joke' on the beach and I can't think of anything else like that in P3, and it has the Aigis romance for Minako. And Junpei's s. link in P3P is actually a nuanced exploration of sexism. Junpei gets testy because he's clearly the lowest ranked member of a team comprised of 3 girls and him, he makes some dumb cracks, Minako gets weird letters, he realizes girls have to deal with a lot of poo poo that he's never had to think about, he offers to walk her home if it'd make her feel safer, he admits that he was just being defensive because his dad was a shithead and made him feel like less of a man, so he tried to take it out on girls, but that isn't healthy. It isn't a masterpiece but I could see a kid who does have issues with girls taking a lesson from that. (of course, whether a sexist teenage boy would play the femc route in the first place is another question, but regardless.) P3P still isn't an amazingly written game but it's the closest the series gets to actually engaging with real social issues in a fully explored, nuanced way. I agree people are a bit too effusive in their praise of it maybe, but when so much of the series is the way it is it's kinda natural people would be happy it exists. Like have whatever opinion you want on P3P but the series would probably be better if it had gone more in its direction, rather than saying it didn't make sense for girls to be in small towns.
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Jun 10, 2020 02:57
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Arist posted:I also really, really love the entire arc of Minako saving Shinjiro, as fan-ficcy as it is. One of my biggest problems with P3's structure is that the party is always reactive, always on the back foot. They never make choices or are even placed in positions where they are able to make choices, they just go with the flow, and usually the thing they were already doing is the thing they were supposed to be doing anyway. But P3P lets you actually have a pretty touching doomed romance where you can save Shinji's life... and then get ripped out of it in what must be the cruelest loving way possible. I don't think I actually like Persona 3 now that I think about it, I only like Minako's story.  I'd kinda wish it was a remake of P3P but actually adding the environments and gameplay parts back for PC. I never did complete my 2nd playthrough of P4:G so I'll wait for a sale for it eventually.
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Jun 10, 2020 03:51
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I just realized that, if this really is a Persona 4 Golden PC port, they might've accidentally timed it perfectly. Adachi is exactly the right villain for this moment. EDIT: You know what, that's fair. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 04:01
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There are gonna be a whole lotta new Persona 4 fans coming into this thread who don't know the identity of the murderer so it would probably be best not to casually spoil that any longer.
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Jun 10, 2020 04:08
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Endorph posted:I mean, the thing is, P3P... is better about not hating gay people and not making sexual assault a joke? The feMC route in P3P doesn't have that trans 'joke' on the beach and I can't think of anything else like that in P3, and it has the Aigis romance for Minako. And Junpei's s. link in P3P is actually a nuanced exploration of sexism. Junpei gets testy because he's clearly the lowest ranked member of a team comprised of 3 girls and him, he makes some dumb cracks, Minako gets weird letters, he realizes girls have to deal with a lot of poo poo that he's never had to think about, he offers to walk her home if it'd make her feel safer, he admits that he was just being defensive because his dad was a shithead and made him feel like less of a man, so he tried to take it out on girls, but that isn't healthy. It isn't a masterpiece but I could see a kid who does have issues with girls taking a lesson from that. (of course, whether a sexist teenage boy would play the femc route in the first place is another question, but regardless.) My guess is it was done by a different team.
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Jun 10, 2020 04:40
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Detective No. 27 posted:There are gonna be a whole lotta new Persona 4 fans coming into this thread who don't know the identity of the murderer so it would probably be best not to casually spoil that any longer. Another 13 Years of Culprit!
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Jun 10, 2020 04:45
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Since they've become popular since P4 was released, maybe now they will include a dark, meta twist where the game claims that the real culprit is You The Fans because without you playing the game the murders would never happen. After all, the only reason Culprit has to keep killing is because You The Fans won't stop advancing the calendar. They are just as much a victim as anyone.
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Jun 10, 2020 04:54
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I think once the fighting game came out with the culprit being out and about all bets were off wrt spoiling it. It's just kinda out there in the either now, having the sickest throw animation in the game. They should put him in Crosstag. EDIT: He is already apparently! I gotta get back into that. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 04:56
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MonsieurChoc posted:My guess is it was done by a different team.
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Jun 10, 2020 04:58
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BBtag owns, go play it I think the fact that Bitches and Whores Adachi is the culprit of P4 is a fairly wide spread spoiler, but for anyone hitting P4 blind I think its cool to let them figure it out.
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Jun 10, 2020 05:40
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ImpAtom posted:She has one weird romance thing that you can just not take and it is never an issue. Meanwhile the Persona 5 protagonist has like four different pedophiles fighting over him and ~mysteriously~ people argue about 'which is the best' instead of calling them all that. I don't think the two situations are comparable. People probably have a much more visceral reaction with someone dating a 10 year old than a 17 year old. The former is also illegal, while the latter is just kind of weird and creepy. There's also the factor that the roles are reversed. Since the player takes on the role of the protagonist they probably are perfectly fine with themselves dating an adult, whereas trying to put themselves in the role of dating a 10 year old feels wrong. Compare it also to the scene they added in Royal where Lavenza comes to Joker's room and watches him work out and falls asleep on his bed. Nothing sexual happens but based on the comments on it on youtube and forums people still find it weird. CJ fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 10, 2020 |
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Jun 10, 2020 20:33
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I would have thought the Persona 4 Golden anime would have gotten cheaper by now but nope, it's still two parts for $80 each.
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Jun 11, 2020 05:21
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I bought and watched the original P4 anime right before they announced the P4G one lmao.
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Jun 11, 2020 05:30
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The Persona 4 Golden anime is an expansion pack of sorts. The first episode kinda establishes that the anime is a new game plus run, but then just jumps around to newly added events. The Christmas episode is quite entertaining since at that point in the game Marie had removed herself from the world and the OP changed to what it would have been if it were an episode of the original. I got to watch it on Crunchyroll but it's not worth $160.
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Jun 11, 2020 05:37
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Just realised Persona 5 Royal is out in English. How is it? Does it like, invalidate/supplant the original game and more importantly, is it worth buying again if I already own the original? I've got that SMT/Persona itch but not sure if I wanna plonk down the big bucks for it...
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Jun 11, 2020 14:02
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Artelier posted:Just realised Persona 5 Royal is out in English. How is it? Does it like, invalidate/supplant the original game and more importantly, is it worth buying again if I already own the original? I've got that SMT/Persona itch but not sure if I wanna plonk down the big bucks for it... There is no reason to buy the original now unless you are particularly attached to Takemi's original voice. It comes down to whether you want to spend 100+ hours replaying the original story to get a dozen hours of additional original story at the end. They made mechanics changes as well like new trinkets you can find in dungeons, activities to buff baton passing and technical attacks, showtime attacks, getting XP for using Ryuji's instakill ability. This mainly just makes the game even more ridiculously broken. If you have the itch to play through it again then it's a more substantial change than P4G was, but you could just watch a Let's Play of the new stuff as well.
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Jun 11, 2020 16:42
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https://twitter.com/regularpanties/status/1271201855176085505 Probably icons for when Steam detects a Switch controller playing P4G but it's there. Dehry fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jun 11, 2020 |
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Jun 11, 2020 23:49
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Detective No. 27 posted:There are gonna be a whole lotta new Persona 4 fans coming into this thread who don't know the identity of the murderer so it would probably be best not to casually spoil that any longer. I played P4G for the first time start of 2017 and I managed to avoid being spoiled on the killer. Everyone was very considerate about it, even before I actively started posting people usually avoided saying the killer's name. All the memes made me think it was Nanako, actually.  I mean, not Nanako herself, but like, she was possessed or something. She's always in front of the damned TV after all...
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Jun 12, 2020 01:03
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Honest question: How many different post-apocalypic/wrecked up Tokyos have there been in this franchise?
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Jun 12, 2020 12:31
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