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Looking to declutter the MIL's kitchen countertop and I basically need either 3 outlets or 2+USB-C to power her google wifi puck (5V/3A, USB-C) + charge iDevices. Previously I've never trusted whatever garbage was out there as an integrated in-wall device, as they were either so poorly made they didn't "handshake" to the higher charging rates on common devices (samsung, apple) thus leaving them to charge at basically 500ma, or they were from ShadyImporterInc and lacked a UL stamp, or the UL listing was definitely fake. It looks like these may have improved finally? Are these "trusted" these days? I realize that I'm putting a time bomb in the wall but it might be just what she wants. My goal is for it to last say 5 years and not burn the house down. https://smile.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Resistant-Electrical-Receptacle/dp/B07XB2XV7Z https://smile.amazon.com/Leviton-T5635-W-Delivery-Charger-Tamper-Resistant/dp/B07PTWG5DV/ (30W total output, which is 3A+3A as the Google Wifi would always be drawing 3A.)
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Jun 21, 2020 18:05
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H110Hawk posted:Looking to declutter the MIL's kitchen countertop and I basically need either 3 outlets or 2+USB-C to power her google wifi puck (5V/3A, USB-C) + charge iDevices. Previously I've never trusted whatever garbage was out there as an integrated in-wall device, as they were either so poorly made they didn't "handshake" to the higher charging rates on common devices (samsung, apple) thus leaving them to charge at basically 500ma, or they were from ShadyImporterInc and lacked a UL stamp, or the UL listing was definitely fake. Don’t kitchen outlets have to be GFCI these days? Probably should just go with a nice Anker dual USB-C wall wart, I have Atom PD 2s everywhere.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:56
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movax posted:Don’t kitchen outlets have to be GFCI these days? Probably should just go with a nice Anker dual USB-C wall wart, I have Atom PD 2s everywhere. There is gfci upstream.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:57
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H110Hawk posted:There is gfci upstream. You’re a genius. I kinda gave up on the idea because I didn’t have that, but I guess I could always add it. The Leviton is the one that I was gonna buy FWIW, in that case before I just kept the wall warts. Only other idea I vaguely had was trying out some fancy LV junction box with USB-C keystones but that might not exist.
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Jun 21, 2020 19:02
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I would like to not burn my house down. Here's the situation: I have a table saw I'd like to run. Typically machines are done through industrial 16A sockets, but I don't have the right setup to wire one in in the area that I'm (temporarily) using it. The plate has it rated for 3kW, and I'm on a 230V supply, so we're talking a smidge over 13A draw. When I test ran it through a 13A fuse I'm pretty sure it popped it, but I don't have a multimeter handy to check. I do have domestic sockets available in the area, and they're a decent brand (MK) that I trust not to have skimped on meeting the regulations, so I trust that I should be able to run 13A through it without harm, but I'm working mostly with a finger in the air. There's some received wisdom on the electrician forums that the spec says they must be tested with a continuous current of 14A in one socket and 6A in the other without overheating, but I can't find that confirmed anywhere, and I don't have a copy of the spec. So, would I be foolish to put a 14 or 16A fuse in a 13A plug, plug it into one side of a double socket, and use it like that for short stretches (< 20min at a time)? I'm doing that already for my jointer, but that's marked for 2.2kW, or a little less than 10A.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:35
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One trick you insurance company will hate! But more seriously......is a properly rated extension cord not an option here? It's not clear if "area" is just a room or like....off your property.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:49
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Motronic posted:One trick you insurance company will hate! A proper extension is a possibility, but that potentially raises more questions. The "area" is a temporary workshop area in what will be a kitchen/diner (currently a kitchen/workshop). I could run a 16A-rated extension, but since it's still in a domestic house there's no 16A sockets to run it to. I could run it to the distribution box but then we're into adding another circuit and all that jazz, to add a 16A socket that I won't use afterwards (I'll eventually be running that circuit to an outbuilding).
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Jun 22, 2020 23:03
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Would replacing an exiting outlet with a 16 amp one be an option? If the wiring & breaker is rated for it you'd be safe, and you could reuse the outlet in your eventual permanent workshop. I'm not having much luck googling 16 amp UK outlets that look like they would work as drop in replacements for residential 13 amp outlets, though.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:29
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Nevets posted:I'm not having much luck googling 16 amp UK outlets that look like they would work as drop in replacements for residential 13 amp outlets, though. I did think about that, and this is the issue I encountered there too. Figuring that out (if it's even doable, and I suspect not neatly) would be a proper electrician job.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:35
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Jaded Burnout posted:So, would I be foolish to put a 14 or 16A fuse in a 13A plug, plug it into one side of a double socket, and use it like that for short stretches (< 20min at a time)? Short answer yes.  Absolutely do not just slap incrementally bigger fuses in until you find one that holds. A 13A fuse can carry up to 20A indefinitely without blowing and overloading a fuse by even a small amount is going to make it heat up a lot. Its virtually impossible to design a fuse that does not blow at 13 Amp but definitely blows at 14 Amps due to the tolerances involved. Without knowing more it's hard to say exactly what's causing it. Startup pull too high, Back EMF on the motor, a fault somewhere even.
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Jun 23, 2020 06:51
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kecske posted:Short answer yes. I see, OK. 16A would be OK, though, right? because that's the rating listed in the manual? But then potentially pushes the issue onto the socket.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:52
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A 16A commando isnt a fused plug, it's the max rating of the circuit supplying it from an MCB at your consumer unit. Putting a >13A fuse into a 13A plug top is dangerous because even if the wiring loom is rated for a 16A supply, a generic white plastic socket outlet isnt rated for a single load power draw above 13A and will suffer the thermal effects of heat buildup, introducing the risk eventually that other parts of the plug or socket assembly will break down from thermal effects before the fuse pops to save it. Ib ≤ In ≤ Iz  e: I'm making a lot of assumptions here, like you're in the UK somewhere and using outlets on a generic ring final or radial. kecske fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 08:31
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kecske posted:A 16A commando isnt a fused plug, it's the max rating of the circuit supplying it from an MCB at your consumer unit. Ah, interesting. So is the intended setup to put in a subpanel and have a dedicated 16A MCB for each machine? The only other alternative I have readily available is a dedicated 40A MCB with a 10mm feed running to what was going to be a 14.8kW induction range cooker that I changed my mind about. From what you're saying it sounds like it might not be safe to wire a 16A commando socket direct into that? Without having a proper 16A breaker in between? kecske posted:Putting a >13A fuse into a 13A plug top is dangerous because even if the wiring loom is rated for a 16A supply, a generic white plastic socket outlet isnt rated for a single load power draw above 13A and will suffer the thermal effects of heat buildup, introducing the risk eventually that other parts of the plug or socket assembly will break down from thermal effects before the fuse pops to save it. mm, this is what I was concerned about. I'll steer clear of the ring mains then. kecske posted:e: I'm making a lot of assumptions here, like you're in the UK somewhere and using outlets on a generic ring final or radial. In the UK, yes, and with a modern but standard residential electrical system.
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Jun 23, 2020 08:44
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Jaded Burnout posted:Ah, interesting. So is the intended setup to put in a subpanel and have a dedicated 16A MCB for each machine? This would be considered best practice, although not always achievable depending on your circumstances. Jaded Burnout posted:The only other alternative I have readily available is a dedicated 40A MCB with a 10mm feed running to what was going to be a 14.8kW induction range cooker that I changed my mind about. From what you're saying it sounds like it might not be safe to wire a 16A commando socket direct into that? Without having a proper 16A breaker in between? 40A is way too big for an outlet that size, you could swap it out and rerun the cable if it's not too much work to pull it back out. Alternatively you could feasibly power a small sub-DB off that with a handful of ways for a small workshop. fwiw, cooker installs have been notifiable works to the local authority since 2005 or so, fines go up to 5k or thereabouts for not getting a Part P spark in to certify it.
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Jun 23, 2020 09:08
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kecske posted:40A is way too big for an outlet that size, you could swap it out and rerun the cable if it's not too much work to pull it back out. Alternatively you could feasibly power a small sub-DB off that with a handful of ways for a small workshop. Right, I'll take that off the table too. kecske posted:fwiw, cooker installs have been notifiable works to the local authority since 2005 or so, fines go up to 5k or thereabouts for not getting a Part P spark in to certify it. The (much much smaller) oven I have in now was installed (by me) before the electrician certified the whole house, so I'm assuming it's included in that signoff? kecske posted:This would be considered best practice, although not always achievable depending on your circumstances. So, what I'm thinking right now, is get the electrician in, have him fit a new workshop-sized circuit in the main DB, and add a sub-DB off that right next to it with a 16A MCB in it, and then a 16A socket off that, that way all that gear is reusable in the (eventual) workshop, it'd just be a matter of moving the sub-DB etc, and running a new feed to the outbuilding. And in the meantime I can run a properly rated extension from that socket out to where I currently have the machine(s). Does that sound sensible?
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Jun 23, 2020 09:24
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if it's just for the one socket for now then you dont need to go as far as a sub DB. A single 16A C type MCB in your main consumer unit to a single 16A outlet will do you if it's a short term thing. Then put a new bigger feed to a sub DB in your outbuilding whenever. If it's a new install you can then spec it how you want, but the installer is likely to insist on stuff like double pole rotary isolators for each machine.
kecske fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 10:22
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kecske posted:if it's just for the one socket for now then you dont need to go as far as a sub DB. A single 16A C type MCB in your main consumer unit to a single 16A outlet will do you if it's a short term thing. Then put a new bigger feed to a sub DB in your outbuilding whenever. OK, so it'll be reusable on the new rail? If I'm going for something relatively simple like this, is it still recommended to get the electrician in for it? Don't want to waste our time if it's a bit trivial. kecske posted:If it's a new install you can then spec it how you want, but the installer is likely to insist on stuff like double pole rotary isolators for each machine. If by "installer" you mean the installer of the machines, that'll be me, and I'm happy to spend a bit extra for safety and convenience. Definitely want some kind of switch on each socket, happy for the electrician to provide recommendations. If by "installer" you mean the electrician then yeah equally fine with following his guidance.
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Jun 23, 2020 10:53
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Jaded Burnout posted:OK, so it'll be reusable on the new rail? yeah as long as it's not damaged it's perfectly fine to pull and reuse parts. If you've done any electrical work at all it's pretty intuitive to do, worst case scenario you can get the parts in and have a look if you feel happy to do it and then farm it out it if you dont.
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Jun 23, 2020 11:14
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kecske posted:yeah as long as it's not damaged it's perfectly fine to pull and reuse parts. If you've done any electrical work at all it's pretty intuitive to do, worst case scenario you can get the parts in and have a look if you feel happy to do it and then farm it out it if you dont. Roger. I think I'll probably get him in to do it, because while I feel confident not killing myself while installing it, I don't feel confident enough that I can make safe and informed choices about e.g. cable gauge and similar subtleties, the sort of thing that can lead to the title of this thread. Thanks for all the help! edit: also the fact that I used the word "cable" instead of "wire" is a telltale sign Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 11:28
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Jaded Burnout posted:edit: also the fact that I used the word "cable" instead of "wire" is a telltale sign Cables are just multiple wires in a single jacket. In the USA you have (for example) 3 wires in a single 12/2 cable.
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Jun 23, 2020 14:38
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Since learning more about electrical work I've tried to call the individual wires 'conductors' to avoid confusion, since 'wire' and 'cable' are often used interchangeably by non-tradespeople.
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Jun 23, 2020 18:31
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H110Hawk posted:Cables are just multiple wires in a single jacket. In the USA you have (for example) 3 wires in a single 12/2 cable. Very true. "/" NM with ground has been used for so long now that the "with ground" is just assumed at this point. Also, it's not necessarily "wires" plural. Coaxial cable is one wire with a metal jacket around it. The jacket is usually a grounded shield, but it may be energized depending on the job. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 21:46
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Hopefully this is the right thread for this. If I have a 3 phase feed rated at 10kva, in this case a generator, I should be able to pull about 2/3 of that per phase, right? 440v and 230v respectively if that makes a difference.
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Jun 24, 2020 20:52
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kVa3ø x 1000 ____________ root3 x VLL is your max draw per phase. So a 10kVa diesel generator set is 8kW (p.f 0.8), and you say your line-line is 440V which gives you: 8 x (1000) ____________ (1.732) x (440) = 10.49A per phase. I think that's correct? someone will hopefully step in and correct me if I've got that wrong. If your generator set runs on something other than diesel than you'll have to substitute in whatever the correct power factor is.
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Jun 24, 2020 21:23
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Hi Wiring thread, I posted a number of months ago about wiring 120 and 220 to brew indoors. Between putting it off then Covid, I finally took the "you can DIY this" to heart, and successfully put in GFCI breakers for both runs, 10 ga for the 220 and 12 ga for the 120. Works great! I did hire out the plumbing to be sure it was pumped up to the drain correctly, but I was able to already have an outlet in a useful location. 
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Jun 25, 2020 16:34
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Weka posted:Hopefully this is the right thread for this. Rule of thumb is 56% per phase. There's math to back that up that I remember doing a decade ago.
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Jun 26, 2020 02:23
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I have a GFCI 20a outlet on my kitchen island, but I'd wished it was on one of the walls close to it. I was checking things today to see what other outlets were on the same 20a breaker and found that the two outlets on the wall that I wanted a 20a is on the same breaker, however when I trip the GFCI test on the island the wall outlets still have power. I've been through the wiring in the house and there is nothing smaller than 12ga used anywhere (I also verified the wall outlets). Should I be safe to install a GFCI 20a outlet in place of one of the 15a outlets on the wall?
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Jun 27, 2020 18:57
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BlackMK4 posted:I have a GFCI 20a outlet on my kitchen island, but I'd wished it was on one of the walls close to it. I was checking things today to see what other outlets were on the same 20a breaker and found that the two outlets on the wall that I wanted a 20a is on the same breaker, however when I trip the GFCI test on the island the wall outlets still have power. I've been through the wiring in the house and there is nothing smaller than 12ga used anywhere (I also verified the wall outlets). Should I be safe to install a GFCI 20a outlet in place of one of the 15a outlets on the wall? Yeah. In houses, 15A and 20A outlets are practically interchangable.
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Jun 27, 2020 19:01
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Thank you . I was planning on going with one of these since it will have an espresso machine plugged into it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081ZCTHH7?pf_rd_r=8JH12N2WHY72QP3PHWDK&pf_rd_p=edaba0ee-c2fe-4124-9f5d-b31d6b1bfbee
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Jun 27, 2020 20:47
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Yeah. In houses, 15A and 20A outlets are practically interchangable. I had to buy a replacement outlet and it had all kinds of warnings about not using the wrong one. What actually happens then if you use a 20a GFCI in place of a 15a one?
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Jun 27, 2020 21:40
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Chronojam posted:I had to buy a replacement outlet and it had all kinds of warnings about not using the wrong one. What actually happens then if you use a 20a GFCI in place of a 15a one? If the wire is #12 and the breaker is 20a, it's fine. If the breaker is 15a and something is plugged into the 20a outlet pulling more, then it'll trip (also it's not code legal). If the wire is #14 and the breaker and outlet are 20a it'll burn wires up eventually. One can use 15a receptacles on a 20a circuit with no problem.
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Jun 27, 2020 21:56
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BlackMK4 posted:I have a GFCI 20a outlet on my kitchen island, but I'd wished it was on one of the walls close to it. Out of curiosity, what are you plugging in that requires a 5-20R?
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Jun 27, 2020 23:19
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B-Nasty posted:Out of curiosity, what are you plugging in that requires a 5-20R? Double boiler espresso machine. It can be run in 15a or 20a mode, may as well run 20a if I can.
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Jun 27, 2020 23:41
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BlackMK4 posted:Double boiler espresso machine. It can be run in 15a or 20a mode, may as well run 20a if I can. This sounds better than the instant coffee I've been drinking at home.
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Jun 27, 2020 23:54
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I am going to end up crossposting this in a couple of threads, but the home we purchased has some old florescent fixtures in the basement. One only fires up after the switch is on for like... an hour, and a separate one just doesn't turn on.The previous homeowner said they they thought it was either the ignitor or the ballast, but I just would rather replace them flat out. They appear to be 48" boxes. Is there a recommended LED replacement fixture? I'd like something warmer than daylight, maybe dimmable but not specifically required.
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Jun 29, 2020 15:40
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KKKLIP ART posted:I am going to end up crossposting this in a couple of threads, but the home we purchased has some old florescent fixtures in the basement. One only fires up after the switch is on for like... an hour, and a separate one just doesn't turn on.The previous homeowner said they they thought it was either the ignitor or the ballast, but I just would rather replace them flat out. They appear to be 48" boxes. Yeah, probably a ballast. They make all kinds of retro fit LED kits for the insides that bypass a ballast and so on. But, for the same amount you can buy a straight up LED fixture and just replace the whole thing (it's what I just did in my own basement). https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...30LPL/306860677
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Jun 29, 2020 15:53
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Ferrule posted:Yeah, probably a ballast. Yeah this is what I am looking for. Wanted to try to find some that looks a bit nicer, in so far as a tube light style fixture can look.
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Jun 29, 2020 18:18
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I am having my electrical panel replaced and upgraded tomorrow, along with a couple new outlets/circuits run. A coworker who has a bit of electrical knowledge says I should not let the electrician haul off my old panel because the breakers have long since been discontinued (Pushmatic) and I could probably sell them off for a bit of cash. Am I gonna get some weird side eye from the sparky when I ask them to leave the old panel? Anyone know of any wholesalers that would buy these or would I have to try my luck on ebay? I'm honestly not sure it's worth my time if it's the latter.
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Jun 29, 2020 18:35
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Sirotan posted:I am having my electrical panel replaced and upgraded tomorrow, along with a couple new outlets/circuits run. A coworker who has a bit of electrical knowledge says I should not let the electrician haul off my old panel because the breakers have long since been discontinued (Pushmatic) and I could probably sell them off for a bit of cash. Am I gonna get some weird side eye from the sparky when I ask them to leave the old panel? Anyone know of any wholesalers that would buy these or would I have to try my luck on ebay? I'm honestly not sure it's worth my time if it's the latter. There are two kinds of electricians, those who save all the scrap from different jobs and sell it and those who give the scraps to another electrician who sells it. I doubt there's any value in the panel (to the electrician) and you'll probably just save him the hassle of dragging it out of the house. I quite enjoy when someone says "Oh I'll take care of that bundle of nasty dirty poo poo with $.87 of copper in it."
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Jun 29, 2020 18:41
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Sirotan posted:I am having my electrical panel replaced and upgraded tomorrow, along with a couple new outlets/circuits run. A coworker who has a bit of electrical knowledge says I should not let the electrician haul off my old panel because the breakers have long since been discontinued (Pushmatic) and I could probably sell them off for a bit of cash. Am I gonna get some weird side eye from the sparky when I ask them to leave the old panel? Anyone know of any wholesalers that would buy these or would I have to try my luck on ebay? I'm honestly not sure it's worth my time if it's the latter. Ebay shows sold listings of $10/breaker. Offer it to your coworker or let the electrician haul it away. That doesn't seem worth the hassle to me.
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Jun 29, 2020 18:44
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