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Kart Barfunkel posted:The podracer game has reminded me just how awesome the Episode 1 aesthetic is. gently caress yeah - can't wait to buy this. I loving LOVED that game.
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Jun 23, 2020 20:46
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And whooooooooosh go the goalposts
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Jun 23, 2020 20:47
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Arist posted:At what point on the circle does Luke start in The Last Jedi? This is bugging me, what is your av from
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Jun 23, 2020 20:49
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sharknado slashfic posted:This is bugging me, what is your av from Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, there's a late-game puzzle where a chibi version of the character Luke does this weird hypnotic little jig in a cage.
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Jun 23, 2020 20:52
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TLJ has lots of problems, but yoda isn't one of them. The movie cleverly takes advantage of the audience perception that yoda has to be basically benevolent and wise- when, as we all agree, the prequels amply show he is equally as compromised, hypocritical, and malign as all the other jedi if not moreso. That he pursues ruthless, indiscriminate revenge against the skywalkers solely due to their blood under the guise of being their teacher reflects what he learned from palpatine after all. You can of course read his actions in this light even in the OT, where he puts a hit on anakin by way of luke, presumably hoping for a two-for-one in the best case. Much easier to pursue your poetic revenge when your targets think you have their best interests at heart. Indeed, in some sense you could call TLJ revenge of the jedi for this reason No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 20:54
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Luke's convo with Yoda in TLJ implies that he read the Jedi texts but either found them insufficient or inapplicable to the problems at hand, right? The interpretation that he just didn't read them at all is not one that I've ever seen put forth seriously. His plotline makes no sense if he didn't read them. That's central to why he feels the Jedi have to end - as an order and an ideology they are/were incapable of dealing with problems, to the extent that they facilitated the downfall of the Republic as part of their sworn enemy's deception and manipulation. Luke rejects the limits of the Jedi in RotJ to defeat Palpatine and redeem his father, but for whatever reason decides to adopt the trappings of the Jedi to train a new generation... and in doing so creates a circumstance that leads to the downfall of the Republic yet again.
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Jun 23, 2020 20:57
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The suggestion is that Rey won't be a Jedi in the same sense that Luke was, because she's learned from the previous generation's mistakes (don't have a lot of hubris and don't go into your nephew's bedroom with a weapon). Ideally this would have been demonstrated by her doing something Luke was unable to because of his flaws, but then if she outperformed Luke onscreen then there would just be cries of Mary Sue about it, so what are you gonna do. E: if Luke had read the Jedi texts then he would presumably react to being asked if he has read them in some way other than spluttering, fidgeting, shaking his head back and forth and avoiding eye contact 2house2fly fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 20:57
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Just remembered that rey uses one of the texts in ROS for something (to wookieepedia the wayfinder I think)
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Jun 23, 2020 21:03
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I read Luke's response to Yoda asking about the texts as embarrassment that he, Luke freaking Skywalker savior of the galaxy, couldn't find the answers he was looking for in the accumulated wisdom of the ancient Jedi. If the intended interpretation is that he just couldn't be bothered to read them over the course of a decade (or longer) in exile because they were boring... that kind of puts a damper on Luke's arc in TLJ for me.
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Jun 23, 2020 21:10
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Short of luke saying "no, I didn't read the texts" instead of spluttering, fidgeting, shaking his head back and forth and avoiding eye contact when asked if he read the texts, I don't know how it could be stated any more plainly. To be sure, it's extremely stupid
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Jun 23, 2020 21:12
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Yoda says “read them have you?” And Luke looks down bashfully and says “well I...”. It’s implied he never read them. The fact that there’s any ambiguity about this speaks to my original point. The scene is a mess.
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Jun 23, 2020 21:14
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He never read them because he always planned to destroy them but kept chickening out because of the immense historical weight they represent. At some point he became stuck in stasis where he can't destroy the texts and he can't leave, because the actual reason he's there is self-imposed exile after his fuckup, and he kind of just resigned himself to staying there until he died (possibly considering burning himself along with the tree) and in all that time it never actually occurred to him to read the books because they don't exist in his mind as actual physical objects but as symbols
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Jun 23, 2020 21:23
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That is just so immensely stupid, my god.
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Jun 23, 2020 21:33
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I watched Knives Out and thought it was pretty good. Seems like Riann is much better suited to a genre where intricate jumbled up overwritten plots are the norm.
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Jun 23, 2020 21:45
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If rian was able to just admit the movie was rushed and came out a little bit hosed up, I think I would be able to reach a peace with him. But he adamantly insists this isn't the case. I'm still not sure if the blame lines with a. being a twitter man b. being a perfect disney suckup c. what he actually believes d. some mix of multiple
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Jun 23, 2020 21:52
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Luke and the texts is fine as a moment of personal growth for Luke but it gets all jumbled up with "let the past die" and "rich elites are taking advantage" which are bombs squarely aimed at the audience. it's hard to relate what Yoda says to what Kylo says to what Rey does: should we burn the texts, or save them, or save them while pretending you burned them...? is a Jedi v Sith Star War good or is it empowering the real bad guys, the rich Neutrals, or...?
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Jun 23, 2020 23:16
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Luke couldn't have read the Jedi texts because he is illiterate.2house2fly posted:The suggestion is that Rey won't be a Jedi in the same sense that Luke was, because she's learned from the previous generation's mistakes (don't have a lot of hubris and don't go into your nephew's bedroom with a weapon). Ideally this would have been demonstrated by her doing something Luke was unable to because of his flaws, but then if she outperformed Luke onscreen then there would just be cries of Mary Sue about it, so what are you gonna do. Rey is able to kill the Emperor by surpassing Luke's vulnerability to reverse psychology. pospysyl fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 23:26
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No Mods No Masters posted:Insofar as the theme of the movie is lib incompetence, confusion, self-contradiction, and general loathsomeness- agreed, it definitely is the thematic core of the movie Lmao The Canto blight part is a contradictory mess so he's spot on I guess. But the Yoda discussion makes me wonder, is there any part of the film that isn't mealymouthed or self-contradictory?
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Jun 23, 2020 23:48
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No, there is not.
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Jun 24, 2020 00:03
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General Dog posted:A sequence can be the thematic core of the movie while still being a poorly conceived/poorly executed sequence.
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Jun 24, 2020 00:45
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I’m finally watching The Mandalorian and after just one episode I’m far more invested in the characters, plot, setting, ect than I ever was for the entire ST or the Anthology films. And they didn’t need a $300 million dollar budget to do something interesting with the Star Wars universe. Solaris 2.0 fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jun 24, 2020 |
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Jun 24, 2020 01:57
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Arist posted:It's really not. It’s got all the depth of an office motivational poster. “Failure is the best teacher,” and all that. What should Luke learn from his past? How should he apply that to his present? What lessons should he learn from his failures beyond continuing to try? What has Rey learned from Luke? How has she grown? What should the Jedi be? Why are the important beyond the fact that they are telekinetic mutants who can tilt the scales of a battle? The movie does a lot of emotive gesturing at things that might be compelling but then decides to ignore that in favor of setting up an ending where you have the small but plucky band of misfit rebels, on the brink of defeat, against the now dominant empire lead by a dark force user from the sky walker bloodline. Talk about being chained to your past.
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Jun 24, 2020 01:58
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That whole idea of Rey possibly falling to the dark side was so incredibly half baked in all three movies. Mindblowing lack of commitment to any idea other than “must feel like generic Star Wars”
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Jun 24, 2020 02:05
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It's also pretty hilarious to claim the message is don't chain yourself to the past when the ST can't help itself copying the homework of the OT And yes, I absolutely am including TLJ in that accusation
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Jun 24, 2020 02:12
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unless you think it's actually good to chain yourself to the past then it sounds like you agree with the message
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Jun 24, 2020 02:28
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2house2fly posted:unless you think it's actually good to chain yourself to the past then it sounds like you agree with the message I think that maybe if you're gonna have a message don't undermine that by doing the exact opposite of what said message says But then again McCloud posted:is there any part of the film that isn't mealymouthed or self-contradictory? 2house2fly posted:No, there is not.
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Jun 24, 2020 02:33
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The concept behind the Yoda scene is that Luke has blamed the Republic, the Galaxy, and even the universe itself for the failure of his school. The Jedi are too good for this blighted world, according to Luke, so he has a spent these decades in hiding so that the Jedi Order can achieve a ‘state of perfection’. This ultimately means transcendence into the immaterial realm through suicide. Luke isn’t just planning to burn the books, but to do a Heaven’s Gate on himself as well. Yoda appears and destroys the church in order to botch Luke’s suicide. This is specifically an attack the church, and not the books, because his target is the notion of sacredness. This also deflates Luke’s self-importance. This act restores the past. Instead of being so high-and-mighty, Luke accepts that pobody’s nerfect & pushes the Jedi back towards what they used to be: psychic cops serving the Republic, flying around in a Millenium Falcon using lightsabers, etc. So, this: Arist posted:I'm on my phone but okay, which part doesn't make sense: "we are what they grow beyond", a fantastic line that perfectly summarizes that Luke has nothing left to offer to either Kylo or Rey? Or is it the destruction of the texts when Luke tries to retrieve them, a blatant message that we should not be chained by the past? Or is it his subtle acknowledgment that Rey already stole the texts, because Rey might actually be able to learn from them and put them to good use, unlike Luke, who was only able to obsess over the failures of the Jedi (and himself by extension)? ... is entirely wrong. lol. How can there be that much confusion? Well, the films have all done an insanely bad job of establishing why the New Republic failed, so Luke’s anger at the New Republic instead appears completely directionless. The film absolutely fails to convey that Luke is pissed at Leia, even though that’s repeatedly stated in dialogue. The dialogue itself is muddied by the super-badly-written “hubris” monologue where Luke complains that the Jedi of their past were too hubristic because they thought they could work with the Republic. Luke is not against the concept of the Jedi Order. Luke actually says the previous Jedis failed the Order when they became too attached to the material Universe - hence his idea of saving the Order from corruption by destroying it. But this takes a heavy analysis to decipher and is never actually illustrated. In the end, audiences just fill in the blanks with whatever they want, free-associating over the image of a grumpy Hamill and the abstract concept of doing good things instead of bad things. Burn down the bad things! What are the bad things? The film uses only the image of a hollow tree. The bad things can be whatever you want them to be.
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Jun 24, 2020 03:19
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Seems a bit of a dick move to be mad at Leia when it was him who hosed things up with her son
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Jun 24, 2020 03:28
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This movie is like a never ending series of matrushka contradictions
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Jun 24, 2020 03:33
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2house2fly posted:Seems a bit of a dick move to be mad at Leia when it was him who hosed things up with her son Leia and Han sent their troubled son away to Military school so he didn’t get in the way of their playing at guerilla commander and amoral smuggler, respectively. They’re bad parents.
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Jun 24, 2020 03:37
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Well if Luke would have simply internalized love and reverence for all beings to the point of it being instinctual then he wouldn't have felt the urge to kill and his nephew wouldn't have burned down the school! He had one job!
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Jun 24, 2020 03:43
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not to worry, it's canon that Ben didn’t burn down the school after all
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Jun 24, 2020 03:46
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who burnt down the school?
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Jun 24, 2020 03:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Luke accepts that pobody’s nerfect Hehe
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Jun 24, 2020 03:54
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The United States posted:who burnt down the school? It's heavily implied to have been Sheev. No I'm not joking.
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Jun 24, 2020 04:15
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Two half grown snokes in a trenchcoat
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Jun 24, 2020 04:18
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galagazombie posted:It's heavily implied to have been Sheev. No I'm not joking. 
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Jun 24, 2020 04:25
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TLJ: The school burned because of human weakness and folly. The battle against rage and fear is constant, and when Luke lost that battle for no more than a second his actions wrought great destruction. Disney: No, this won't do at all. A bad wizard burned the school down.
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Jun 24, 2020 04:26
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It was a place of Jedi knowledge set on fire by a bolt of lightning from the sky, so maybe it was Yoda.
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Jun 24, 2020 04:31
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2house2fly posted:Seems a bit of a dick move to be mad at Leia when it was him who hosed things up with her son Right - which is why Luke’s arc, on paper, is this: 1) Hrmph, I’m being a dick to Leia because her stupid politics ruined my school. gently caress her and gently caress everyone. I’m going to kill myself out of spite. 2) Oh no, I think Rey is right - I hosed up my school. I’m a big stupid failure, and I’m going to kill myself in shame. 3) *Yoda appears* Ok, fine, I guess can forgive myself. I’ve been way too cynical, so I’ll kill myself to express my wholehearted endorsement of liberalism! I love the New Republic! I love war! I love Leia! I love Original Trilogy Star Wars iconography! Leftists are dangerous! The answer is in the middle! Millenium Falcon! *dies* The End. The issue is that all of Part 1 and most of Part 3 are really, really poorly conveyed.
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Jun 24, 2020 04:31
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