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Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


I'm like 1500 posts behind but the daily fun of reading through RPG writer's weird choices, and how games reacted to them, has been a joy.

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Reflections85
Apr 30, 2013

atal posted:

I never post but I've had years of fun reading the content in this thread and if this ship is going down I wanted to say thanks to anyone who has taken the time to post a dumb RPG review.

I just want to echo this. I got into SA through the Fatal & Friends CthulhuTech review and this thread has introduced me to a lot of cool games.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.
I guess the F&F archive might have to take posts directly?

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




Guess I'll just have to do the rest of the Mutant books on a WP blog or something if things goes full Hindenburg. Time will tell I guess.

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

I joined SA for this thread, so thanks for all the years of interesting RPGs.

Smiling Knight
May 31, 2011

Yes, thank you so much to all the wonderful posters in this thread. You've provided many hours of joy.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

Leraika posted:

If I got at least one person to purchase the itch.io bundle with my reviews, they'll have been worth it. :unsmith:

I bought the itch.io bundle because of your reviews

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.

Kaza42 posted:

I bought the itch.io bundle because of your reviews

:kimchi:

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



This thread has been one of my mainstays for years though I never contributed a review. Thank you all reviewers and especially Inklesspen for the archive.

The forums are unlikely to be deleted anytime soon for several reasons so don't panic about preservation of what's here, but making plans for a future elsewhere is probably not a bad idea.

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

Kaza42 posted:

I bought the itch.io bundle because of your reviews

:same:

Also, I'd like to salute Inklesspen for her peerless service archiving all the thread's reviews :patriot: I love being able to consult them whenever I have questions about an RPG; I've used a couple of reviews as system references for planning my own games.

I can't think of any equivalents to this thread elsewhere. Are there any anyone knows about?

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


Inklesspen I vow that I will review that second adventure because you are providing an important service to all rpg nerds.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
If the forums go down I hope someone finds a way to keep the F&F magic going.

If I don't get to finish my Buck Rogers overview, it's a good game and probably kinda hard to find now, but keep an eye out because there's a lot of good stuff in it.

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!

This is one of the best threads on the forum. I appreciate all the work everyone has put into this over the years.

Pakxos
Mar 21, 2020
I'm new and mostly a lurker, but this thread is what drew me to SA and everything about has been fantastic. I have such a deeper appreciation for the craft (or lack thereof in some cases) that goes into an RPG now that I never would have without this thread.
Someday I will run a much better game group because of the posters here.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Maxwell Lord posted:

If the forums go down I hope someone finds a way to keep the F&F magic going.

If I don't get to finish my Buck Rogers overview, it's a good game and probably kinda hard to find now, but keep an eye out because there's a lot of good stuff in it.

According to Inklesspen, she'll be able to continue processing posts from the thread even if the forum goes down. Also we nerds on the tradgames discord are debating what to do and where to go if the forums to go down, so consider joining us:

https://discord.gg/p8WqNV8

Vox Valentine
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

Even if by and large I've dropped off this project, F&F will always have a special place in my heart for helping me hone my writing voice and helping me actually learn how to dissect, critique and improve TTRPGS.

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

PurpleXVI posted:

According to Inklesspen, she'll be able to continue processing posts from the thread even if the forum goes down. Also we nerds on the tradgames discord are debating what to do and where to go if the forums to go down, so consider joining us:

https://discord.gg/p8WqNV8

Then I'll be damned if I stop now!



The Outer Planes: Limbo and Pandemonium

Limbo (Chaotic) is both the epitome and antithesis of :smugwizard:. While it's all shapeless matter at its base, most of Limbo takes temporary concrete forms that echo things from across the cosmology before dissolving again. You need :smugwizard: just to survive entry, since portaling into the plane may find you embedding yourself in rock or in the middle of a bonfire. Once in, the defining feature of Limbo is sentience’s effect on it. Any intelligent creature can control a certain amount of territory around them, shaping its matter however they please. The size of the area depends on the INT of whoever’s maintaining it: creatures with 1 to 4 control 10 feet per point, with 5 to 10 10 yards per point, 11 to 18 100 yards per point, and 19+ 1 mile per point. The effects stack when they work together by adding one increment to the radius controlled by the one who maintains the area as long as they’re less than two steps down the chart; a magic user with INT 16 supported by a marginally intelligent familiar and the four plebs they brought with them controls 2100 yards, even if some of those plebs are nearly as smart as they are. The magic user can’t cast spells, though, since it takes enough concentration to maintain at that they can’t use magic or sleep (though they can take other actions). Others can use magic in there just fine, though. Anything outside of a sphere of influence either breaks down (if it’s temporary or made out of Limbo matter) or just glides to a stop (if made from actual matter) 1d10 turns after it leaves it. As far as I can tell, if the sphere manager has to go take a nap or gets enchanted, someone else can immediately take over and stabilize it before it dissolves back into the plane; it’s how githzerai can maintain their own fortresses.



Everything outside of a sphere of influence is in constant motion. Physical objects imported from elsewhere exists just fine but get carried away the moment you let them go, as are travelers who don’t stick together using standard planar mental travel. The only objects that sit still are portals, which take the shape of any kind of aperture sitting motionless in the midst of changing matter: since motion is relative, the best way you can tell a portal’s a portal is if it only seems to move in one direction. In theory, the plane has five levels (ruled by the Githzerai and Slaad, Agni, Susanowo, Indra, and… someone, in sequence) but in practice those divinities drift between layers and locating a boundary comes down to pure luck or :smugwizard:. The only important difference is portals only open up on the first. The two intelligent species in Limbo, the Slaad and Githzerai, mostly inhabit the first level (hence the name), with the first probably being the lesser threat; while unharmed by the shifting local conditions and able to maintain their own spheres without effort, they take damage from spells as normal and work alone. The githzerai operate in groups, though, and though they seem content to peacefully ignore the slaad, they like to mount raids into the Astral on the Githyanki and capture visitors to Limbo as slaves. Maybe 10,000 of them total live in fortresses across the plane with wizards, a few hundred citizens and a smaller number of slaves (meaning there spheres can extend for several miles, enough to build proper settlements). Add that to the occasional spirit that gets sucked in and turned into a pseudo-Lovecraftian “chaos elemental” and Limbo’s just not a nice place.

Pandemonium (Chaotic Evil) is a giant mess of caves full of howling winds. It’s dark, the wind rips light objects away (at its strongest it can even sweep away a halfling), and the noise is so intense you go permanently deaf after one round without protection (while :smugwizard: certainly helps, you can neutralize the effects with wax stoppers just as well). You can’t even use spells with vocal components because the sound doesn’t reach the target. Of course, the book also tells us you can shout to anyone within 10 feet and still be heard, I guess before you lose the ability to hear anything else seconds later. Natives (i.e. creatures that have lived here for generations, nothing’s actually native) ignore the wind, just like natives to other planes ignored local conditions, but the noise still deafens them.



Unlike Limbo, Pandemonium’s layers have definite differences and inhabitants, though all keep the darkness and wind and gravity always pulls down towards the nearest surface. The barriers between them look like blank rock walls that the wind roars through without stopping, signifying an invisible hole. The portals between Pandemonium and its neighbors, on the other hand, resemble squares carved into the rock with colors that indicate which plane they lead to; you can enter them just by flying through, but there’s a one in five chance they’ll whisk you away to one of the other realms.
  • Pandesmos, the top layer, resembles the above description more closely than the rest of the plane. It contains the source of the river Styx, a daemon-infested river that burns away the minds of anyone that touches it spanning all the lower planes. Unless you :smugwizard: your way across, your best bet to travel on it is to wait for none other than Charon (or one of several demon servants) and pay bus fare. Aside from various demons and assorted exiles, Loki keeps a hideout here while a couple of Finnish gods maintain their pantheon’s afterlife, the Babylonian God of darkness sulks in his palace, and the God of bugbears holds court in a wind tunnel covered in severed body parts nailed to the floor.
  • Cocytus emphasizes the windy part of Pandemonium; its tunnels are smaller, the winds are loud enough hearing them drives you temporarily insane as well as deaf, and if you’re dumb enough to listen you can faintly hear people crying and screaming. Unlike the natural walls in the rest of the plane, this place looks like someone carved it out, though not even the Great Powers know who.
  • Phlegethon emphasizes the dark part of Pandemonium. While you can light up the rest of the plane if you can protect the light source from the wind, non-magical sources can’t penetrate the darkness here (all spells have their illumination effects halved). Without :smugwizard: you won’t be able to see anything. Unlike in the rest of the plane, water flows through the whole level, bringing with it the appropriate rock formations.
  • Agathion is a giant stretch of featureless rock except for the occasional rock sphere. Half those spheres contain barriers that, if broken, shoot bystanders away with the force of a contained windstorm; the others contain nothing, unless they house ancient, powerful creatures the gods shoved in them because they couldn’t kill them. There might be other layers, but no one’s ever reached them.

Since the thread’s attention span is understandably low right now, I’ll leave it to those two planes for now, just a bit of a breather for everyone between worrying about the future. Next time (whatever that happens to mean), we’ll start rounding the bottom of the Outer Planes. How many layers would you think the plane of demons has? 666? You’re right! :downsrim:

:smugwizard: Counter: 32.5

But seriously, I doubt the forum is going to suddenly implode. I 'd say we have at absolute minimum a few days before anything starts to change on a practical level. So even as we plan for the future, let’s keep on enjoying the same stuff we came to this thread for.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Hell yeah, let's ride the :smugwizard: into hell

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
I always felt like Pandemonium was criminally underused as a location. Between the persistent darkness and noise, almost every visitor will be near deaf and blind, in endless tunnels, some of them partially flooded, others just narrow.

Just imagine the horror of being stalked by something in there that can see perfectly well in the darkness and has all the patience in the world.

Tungsten
Aug 10, 2004

Your Working Boy

i'm using these manual of the planes writeups for my game right now

the gamma world influenced precursor culture left arcologies with planar bleedthrough to the demi-planes which have become megadungeons

reading all of these write-ups for years instead of watching tv has been great preparation for actually running games, i can rattle off complicated nuanced bits of background worldbuilding as if i'm coming up with it on the spot when in fact i'm hazily remembering something someone posted here like six years ago

thanks everyone

Sharkie
Feb 4, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
edit: stop spamming random threads

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Sharkie posted:

Hi! So, I don't think I've ever posted in this thread, but I've lurked it for a long time. I genuinely love what's been created here, and reading through these reviews has gotten me through plenty of hours of being bored, sad, hungover, etc. So please let me shill for breadnroses.net. It's an SA replacement web forum that was created by goons earlier this year and in the past 24 hours it's gone from a few hundred to over 3000 posters.

It's the closest thing to SA that you're going to find online. It has a lefty politics section, yes, but it also has tons of chill forums, including a traditional/tabletop games forum. I'm not a mod or anything there, just someone who loves this thread (and tg in general) and wants to see it continue regardless of what happens here. So please consider going to breadnroses.net and signing up. Right now afaik it's free, there's a note about 10bux when you register but from my understanding the admins are waving that because they're flush with donations and right now they just want to let everyone in that they can. They approve everyone manually so it might take a second because there's such a rush of new posters signing up. And yes, it is a lefty site, but there's plenty of subforums and threads on there that are very chill and fun (basically don't be a nazi). But please just consider signing up and checking the games forum out (they also have forums for mafia, cyoa, and so on). I think it would make a great new forever home for this thread, and while I don't know computer stuff, it looks like inklesspen would be able to adapt her magic archiving, uh, magic to that sort of forum far easier than discord. So please! Check out breadnroses.net!

Thanks to everyone who's ever contributed. I hope goons keep fatal & friends rolling for years to come. :3:

I’m not going anywhere near a forum created and run by c-spam posters and these advertisements spammed in every loving thread on SA are tiresome.

DAD LOST MY IPOD
Feb 3, 2012

Fats Dominar is on the case


i haven't posted in this thread in ages, i kept putting off my Dead Gods review, but i wanted to post now to say it's a Good Thread and also I did end up finishing my Great Modron March review (currently labeled on Inkless as "abandoned") and I hope the rest of it gets uploaded and not lost to the sands of time.

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

Night10194 posted:

Hell yeah, let's ride the :smugwizard: into hell

Fatal & Friends 2020: Hell Yeah, Let's Ride The Smug Wizard Into Hell

Dallbun
Apr 21, 2010
Geez, all this lovely stuff is coming to a head just as I've been finishing up the AD&D Deck of Encounters Set 2 in preparation for posting.

If something decisive happens with the forum or the thread before I'm ready, I'll follow wherever Inklesspen goes!

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Dallbun posted:

Geez, all this lovely stuff is coming to a head just as I've been finishing up the AD&D Deck of Encounters Set 2 in preparation for posting.

If something decisive happens with the forum or the thread before I'm ready, I'll follow wherever Inklesspen goes!

I know Inklesspen hangs out on the tradgames Discord where most of this thread's posters are also present. Scroll up a bit for the link.

Dallbun
Apr 21, 2010

PurpleXVI posted:

I know Inklesspen hangs out on the tradgames Discord where most of this thread's posters are also present. Scroll up a bit for the link.

Thank you! I just meant that I'll follow and post if Fatal & Friends moves to some other forum. (I asssume nobody wants me to dump pages and pages of encounter reviews in a Discord channel.)

IshmaelZarkov
Jun 20, 2013

Another lurker checking in to tell you all that you've been great and that I'll be following any migration.

InklessPen, if I get a chance at some point in the future, I'm nominating you for sainthood.

punishedkissinger
Sep 20, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 11 hours!
This has been a really good thread to read about a bunch of RPGs I will never read or play myself. Y'all are diamonds and I hope you keep on shinin

Ultiville
Jan 14, 2005

The law protects no one unless it binds everyone, binds no one unless it protects everyone.

I hope someone else manages to take over SA, because it's had a good run and I've been here so long, even if I mostly haven't ventured out of Games for like a decade.

But whatever happens to this thread I'll follow, it's one of my favorites ever.

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E
I have exactly 4 opinions on the proposed move:
  • If the mods are to be believed the scare MIGHT be over, so this may all just fizzle out :shrug:
  • if it doesn’t, we might want to consider shifting the thread over to a preestablished forum elsewhere not directly affiliated with SA, somewhere the thread’s format and ethos can survive. I dunno, maybe RPG.net? I don’t know much about forums, SA (specifically this thread) is the only one I visit now.
  • Wherever we go, we might want to keep this and that thread running concurrently, crossposting as necessary. If S for A collapses, we pick up where we left off; if it stays intact, we can just let it to spin off and make Inklesspen’s job harder.
  • I just cracked Glitter Hearts from the Twitch bundle open out of curiosity and found the most elegant “what is an RPG” section I’ve ever seen. I want to both review that and finish this review first, so I’m not stopping now. Whether the forum lives or dies, let’s party like the Wari, motherfuckers :black101:



The Outer Planes: The Abyss and Tarterus Tartarus



The Abyss (Chaotic Evil) has a theoretically infinite number of layers; the whole “666” thing is an estimate probably chosen for :downsrim: reasons. Each layer contains its own ecosystem of demons of every kind up and down the power scale, though usually any given layer has a demon that claims control over it and likely neighboring layers (effectively making them a Lesser Power). While not necessarily hostile to foreign life, visitors to the Abyss have to deal with demons, always an iffy proposition. The book gives a listing of several powerful demons and evil deities and what their levels look like (Lolth’s is a series of massive spiderwebs around a permanent storm, Demogorgon lives in a multilevel jungle packed with appropriate monsters, Orcus has a bone palace stocked with undead, etc.), but you can expect to run into some ruler controlling every level. While demon rulers can and do die, some underling always takes their place after a brief break and drags the layer into line. I suppose evil players could do this, too.

The top layer of the Abyss is called Pazunia because it’s ruled by Pazuzu, a demon of the air that also controls the sky above every layer by respect and recognition; for all the power that nets him, he only uses it to shuttle people between layers, making him about as popular as a demon can be. Aside from a typically hellish landscape, the layer contains iron portals leading to neighboring planes, fortresses built around those portals that house demons who monopolize them, the river Styx (which flows through the layer same as the rest of the lower planes) and a series of holes in the ground that lead to other layers deeper in. At this point the mechanics get somewhat vague and confusing. Occasionally the Styx flows through those holes, which I think means you can ride it back to the first level and out of the plane, but most just lead to other layers and dump you out hundreds of feet above the surface. I think you have to rely on Pazuzu or :smugwizard: not to splatter, but I don’t know how you might negotiate a way down with him. Unless you know where a given hole leads, it deposits you into a random level with terrain rolled by the GM; these range from Prime Material-equivalent to solid rock (though you always pop out in a relatively safe area) to Mustafar to somewhere that looks like a Prime Material but everyone wants to kill you to a plane that can instantly kill good visitors. Like, save versus spell or die, good creatures that survive and neutral creatures get flung into a random level and evil creatures turn into demons on the spot. You have a one in 20 chance of hitting this plane. It’s just… I know AD&D tends to be lethal and unfair, but the idea of making your way all the way into the Abyss only to die because of two unfortunate rolls just sucks.

Also, note: no Tanar’ri here. This book came out before the Satanic Panic, so no name changes to avoid censors. This will come up later.



Tarterus is a nonstandard romanization of the name for a part of the Greek underworld and I refuse to use it. Tartarus (Chaotic Evil) looks like a series of nested solar systems – well, endless strings of planets suspended in breathable space. I think, the wording’s a bit confusing. Each level contains countless planets about the size of a Prime Material world but whichever Power dominates a sphere dictates local conditions (to a point). The ancient Greek Titans were the first to really take control of the plane and gave it and its layers there names, but most of them have long since been largely usurped by some mixture of demons and daemons across the spheres; the two sides use the plane for low-level proxy wars that their higher-ups mostly ignore. While you get out through touching big monoliths that connect to neighboring planes depending on their size, you go deeper into the plane by finding barriers at the lowest points of each planet; after crossing them you find yourself on the corresponding smaller planet in a similar pseudo-solar system, though interplanetary conditions vary from level to level. I can’t tell where you come out after passing through a barrier or how you get back, but I think it’s through corresponding barriers at the top of the tallest mountains. It’s possible to fly through interplanetary space – the heirs breathable in most levels – but as far as I can tell you don’t have mental movement like you do outside of the Outer Planes: I think you have to either :smugwizard: your way across or catch a ride from somebody. Or you could use the Styx? I don’t know how the Styx crosses Tartarus so :shrug:
  • Orthrys is the highest level of Tartarus and the part where the Titans still hold the most sway. Or rather, some Titans; the less assholish ones peaceably wander the upper planes. Kronos holds court on a pair of spheres whose tallest mountains touch tips, the bottom of Mount Olympus used to extend here until the Olympians broke it to seal the Titans, Kronos can’t muster enough force to attack another plane but still plots, etc. Going to try to keep my promise not to go too deep as much as possible. You also have a pair of Finnish gods ruling swamp planets here, though their area of control spreads out from the first layer into the rest of the nested spheres. Planets are about 100 miles away from each other, making travel relatively easy (with the right equipment).
  • Cathrys’s worlds are smaller and sit maybe 500 miles away from their neighbors. They have a lot more life than the rest of the plane – lots of jungles and grasslands – but all the plants here secrete acid that rapidly eats away metal and less rapidly eats away everything else. Dangerous place to be unless you can :smugwizard: your way around environmental hazards.
  • Minethys is characterized by the massive, dusty windstorms that rage across the 5000 miles between worlds. Each planetary surface has long since been stripped of life, since the dust is so poisonous it’s like the entire plane is under a permanent cloudkill spell (:smugwizard:). Also every 10 days or so a tornado sweeps across any given planet and tosses everyone there either to another planet or another level entirely.
  • Colothys’s planets sit 500,000 miles apart, twice the distance between the Earth and the moon. They are rocky, irregularly shaped, and so wildly mountainous portals down to the next level can be hundreds of miles from the tallest peaks. For some reason an unusually high number of demons and daemons carve bases into the cliffs here, and one sphere houses the God of hill giants, a raging rear end in a top hat that controls the rest of his sphere’s levels through brute force and fear. Since you can theoretically fight or climb your way down without wizard help, I’ll give it half a :smugwizard:
  • Porphatys brings back the :smugwizard:. The plane is filled with clouds of acidic snow, though the acid is much milder than in Cathrys; however, it melts into equally acidic water that sits a few feet deep on most surfaces and submerges every level barrier to the next. Also, traveling to another sphere involves flying through cloud after cloud of snow over millions of miles.
  • Agathys, the lowest known plane of Tartarus (there might be more but no one knows for sure) is pretty much the Himalayas: the planet, every planet. The air is thin, the environment is cold, and there’s very little reason to go here except bragging rights. It may as well be a series of separate, tiny levels, since the adjacent spheres are so far away reaching them might as well be impossible.

This section reads like Grubb was trying not to fall asleep while he wrote it; every time he nodded off, he skipped another bit of description before waking up again and writing like there was no interruption. It’s still interesting stuff (there’s a reason this post is longer than several previous ones), it’s just I wish it gave me a better grasp of how the planes worked.

Next time we hit the bottom of the Lower Planes and enter the home stretch; we’ve got maybe four more updates before we wrap this up.

:smugwizard: Counter: 38

PS thanks to all the lurkers crawling out of the woodwork to talk about how much this thread meant to you, you make this thread worth posting in <3

E:

Tungsten posted:

i'm using these manual of the planes writeups for my game right now
double thanks just for you :3:

Falconier111 fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jun 26, 2020

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Falconier111 posted:

I have exactly 4 opinions on the proposed move:
[list]
[*] If the mods are to be believed the scare MIGHT be over, so this may all just fizzle out :shrug:

I am inclined to believe them. If only cause it would be the best situation.

Also always been a fan of the Abyss. If only for being able to do whatever you want there.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Jun 26, 2020

Chernobyl Peace Prize
May 7, 2007

Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Tart(a/e)rus seems like such a squandered opportunity for adventuring hooks, if I'm reading it correctly—an infinite number of full-on planets, often very close to each other, and half of them are like "yeah this is just rocks or mountains (tall rocks), rip." Like, you know how big the Earth is, right, how much stuff's on it. Jam that into an infinite number of Tartaran planetoids, go nuts man!

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

Tart(a/e)rus seems like such a squandered opportunity for adventuring hooks, if I'm reading it correctly—an infinite number of full-on planets, often very close to each other, and half of them are like "yeah this is just rocks or mountains (tall rocks), rip." Like, you know how big the Earth is, right, how much stuff's on it. Jam that into an infinite number of Tartaran planetoids, go nuts man!

That’s the tragedy of the Manual of the Planes. Grubb specifically decided to avoid anything that didn’t reflect his sources; he wanted to leave the fluff up to GMs to provide them creative freedom. Instead, he left the book without hooks GMs didn’t have to make up themselves. He gave his readers too much creative freedom and the book paid the price.

Also I’m in the part of the US hit by the Sahara Plume and my allergies are going nuts, so I don’t know how much I’ll write today. I’ve kind of given up on the “it’s done when it’s done” thing :v:

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
Tartarus ended up becoming Carceri in later editions, an outright prison plane that's exceptionally hard to escape from, the eventual fate of traitors, specifically. Similarly to the bottommost layer of Pandemonium, generally used by the Powers as a dumping ground for anything real nasty and dangerous they didn't want to deal with again but which they couldn't(or for some reason wouldn't) outright put in the deadbook. Also on the first layer, in the void beyond the orbs, vast creatures from before the dawn of time are said to be imprisoned, older than the Titans, unknown to most of the planes, trying to lure travellers to them so they can attempt escape. Seems like a bit of Lovecraftian influence.

Also something of interest from 2e Planescape is that the fucky local magic conditions can be overcome with "Keys" that allow you to use a school of magic normally on a plane that would normally gently caress it up, or channel your god's powers normally despite any planar distance.

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E


The Outer Planes: Hades and Gehenna

Hades (Evil) would in later editions be renamed the Grey Wastes, and you can see the seeds already; the entire plane is almost entirely gray, leaching the color out of visitors and their items after a week or two of exposure and eventually turning into human-headed worms called larvae (the book implies pulling those larvae out of Hades will return them to normal, but rescuing them before their transformation or :smugwizard: magic can also bring them back). Hades is so gloomy it drains the emotions and hope of the gods that live in it; they even call the layers glooms. Though the plane is theoretically ruled by Anthraxus, the God of daemons, he and his servants only control the top layer; the other two are controlled by gods from other pantheons appointed to oversee that pantheon’s dead and guard entrances to their home realms (which I’ll cover when I get to the layers). The whole point of Hades is showing how evil gradually corrodes a personality until only a shell remains. It reflects the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. Of course, going too deep into analysis means examining the nature of good and evil in D&D and :yikes:



Hades has three layers glooms, each dominated by a single Power (though many have auxiliary Powers bumming around in the background). You get into/out of the plane by coming in through the Astral, sailing the Styx, climbing up one of the structures that connect to the lower glooms, or touching floating, spinning coins color-coded to represent the plane they lead to; their clear color and motion tends to stand out in the endless gray of the plane. Naturally, powerful daemons tend to build fortresses over those coins to control traffic. Speaking of daemons:
  • Oinos, the top layer and home of Anthraxus, is a mess of dead vegetation and sickness; spending time on the level gives you a one in 10 chance of catching a major disease (when do you roll this? The book doesn’t say, Grubb nodded off while writing that part). Oinos is crawling with daemons constantly fight brush wars over power, only uniting when the some force invades the plane; Anthraxus usually sticks around in his tower (called Khin-Oin, where the level gets its name) and squabbles with neighbors until he takes control any time Oinos comes under attack. You can also find the Babylonian death god, the god of Druergar, and the orcish god of death in their own, smaller sub levels.
  • Niflheim contains Yggdrasil’s roots, making it a natural location for Hel to set up shop. Though she’s long since lost most of her personality to the plane, she remains loyal to the Norse Pantheon and rules out of a feasting hall in clear sight of the only known gate between Niflheim and Oinos. The environment is a bit more pleasant here – the vegetation is a bit thicker, no gradual disease – but the soul-consuming effects of the plane are still in full effect.
  • Pluton is the layer controlled by Hades himself, just assigned his Roman name to set it apart from the rest of Hades. Like Hel, Hades is both grimly emotionless and loyal, a good thing since Mount Olympus’s base can be found in this layer and theoretically scaled. He rules out of a gigantic fortress built around that base with its gates just across from the only portal between Pluton and Niflheim, both guarded by Cerberus. As for the terrain, think Oinos except without disease and with Mediterranean vegetation.

I love how they immediately forgot they were trying to call Hades’s levels glooms. Also note that they call them daemons, not Yugoloths like in later editions. This will also be important.



Gehenna (Lawful Evil) has gravity that pulls “at a 45-degree angle to the level of the ground”, which means a misstep can send you tumbling down its mountainous slopes until you hit some outcropping and take damage like you fell straight down on it. Every level of the plane is rocky (the plane is boiling with volcanic activity), hot (bring :smugwizard: to counteract the resulting heat or take steady fire damage), and packed with various daemons and devils (most of whom are on the run from rivals in neighboring planes). You do find fortresses built into carved out of the rock, but they rarely house anything wildly dangerous; there isn’t enough to squabble over for either side to launch invasions into the plane, so you find very few Powers down here unless they themselves lost a serious power struggle elsewhere. While you can easily ride the Styx in and out, both portals and barriers tend to be hard to find; barriers tend to be horizontal holes in the wall and portals tend to be vertical and marked by the locals with information on where they go (surprisingly friendly, given circumstances).
  • Khalas’s light levels are low outside of areas illuminated by lava, and the air is perfectly breathable but hot enough to deal 1d6 damage per turn without protection - I'd say the :smugwizard: is enough of a borderline case for half-credit. You get a lot of water flowing down the mountainside, not just the Styx but waterfalls that just push the edge of the boiling point. Most of the exiles that inhabit the plane live here, though the only god in the area is a Chinese demi-Power.
  • Chamada is substantially more volcanic than the first layer; you get entire volcanoes sticking out of the mountainside and lava waterfalls everywhere. The resulting volcanic gases hit unprotected visitors like the stinking cloud spell and can permanently damage their lungs. In other words, roll out your :smugwizard:.
  • Mungoth mixes a great deal of snow and ice with much reduced but still present volcanism. No heat damage here, though you do have to look out for avalanches whenever something erupts under the ice and sends a mixture of snow, lava, and flash-boiling water down the mountainside. You might also run into the Finnish goddess of pain, who you should probably avoid (the book describes her realm as “not a nice place to visit”). Aside from that the level is about as habitable as Gehenna can get; once you get away from the cold underground, you might as well be in the sort of cave system you might find in a Prime Material (even hostile creatures tend not to make it this far in the plane).
  • Krangath is both volcanically inactive and nearly uninhabited. It’s completely dark and :smugwizard:-level cold, and the only real inhabitants are Shargaas, Orcish god of darkness, and his various spirit followers and undead hanging out deep under the surface.

Next time we finally finish off the Lower Planes and take a peek at what it might look like if Dante’s Inferno and Paradise Lost had an extremely entitled baby.

:smugwizard: Counter: 41.5

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
In Planescape, Gehenna and the Grey Waste became more important locations to the general cosmology.

While Good and Neutral petitioners more or less instantly assumed their new forms in their relevant end location on death, evil petitioners instead got turned into "larvae," big fat barely-sapient caterpillars occasionally used for all sorts of evil purposes by Baatezu, Tanar'ri and Yugoloths. Sometimes just eaten, sometimes used as juice for powerful magics and items, but most importantly the basic ingredient for the lowest tiers of all three types of creature. Gehenna and the Gray Waste were also home to the Night Hags, creatures that made it their business to capture, herd and trade larvae, alongside other evil shenanigans.

mellonbread
Dec 20, 2017
ESOTERIC ENTERPRISES PART 1: OVERVIEW

Hey FATAL and Friends. With the fate of the forums up in the air, there's no better time to start a new review. So let’s read Esoteric Enterprises!



Esoteric Enterprises is an urban fantasy dungeon crawler, released by Dying Stylishly Games in late 2019. There was a draft floating around several months before that just had the chargen rules, but this is the complete package.

The setting is an Unknown Armies or World of Darkness style occult underground. Wizards and magical creatures exist, but they live in the sewers and cast spells using garbage. You’re a homeless supernatural criminal, here to get rich or die trying.

The rules are a hack of a game called Lamentations of the Flame Princess, which is a hack of one of the super early D&D editions. It’s a perfectly serviceable “retroclone” and also a huge can of worms I’m not opening right now. Esoteric Enterprises makes a handful of cool changes, a handful of dumb ones, and a lot that just awkwardly crowbar the Lamentations mechanics into a new setting.

Why do I continue to play this game, and why am I posting about it? The mechanics range from mediocre to bad, but the game’s world creation system is its killer app. The rules for generating and populating the occult underground make it worth sifting through the busted rules. After a couple sessions of play the game really comes alive.

I’ve run about 20 session of Esoteric Enterprises, so I’ll be interspersing descriptions of the book with how they actually work out during play.

PRESENTATION
I’m using the PDF copy of the book I got off drivethroughrpg. There was also physical book that sold out pretty quickly. I hear the hardcover is pretty good. There are still a couple copies on the UK storefront that I actually considered buying, but I can’t justify dropping fifty dollars AND paying international shipping for a game I already have digitally.

There isn’t much art to look at, and most of it is public domain photos or artfully fair-used images from other media properties. This is a shame, because there are a couple places in the book where a couple instructive illustrations would actually have been really helpful, and could have been easily generated by the author using nothing but a cell phone camera. On the plus side, the lack of relevant images makes editing these posts a lot easier.




I'd credit these if the book had annotations for them

The book has proofreading problems that affect the usability. Words are spelled using the American spelling in one place and the Commonwealth spelling in another (mold vs mould) making it difficult to ctrl-f for things like monster stat blocks or spells. Tables are always referenced in the text by table number rather than page number, which is annoying for both a physical book and a PDF.

INTRODUCTION
The game gives us this descriptive text to tell us what it's about.

Esoteric Enterprises, Pages 4 and 5 posted:

This is a world much like our own. The nations and cities of the familiar world are all there. The mundane apparatus of modern society – Walmart, the police, hospitals, Google, churches, and the rest – do their normal jobs. Billions of people live their mundane lives just like anybody in the real world.

It is also, however, a world with startling differences to the familiar, for those who know where to look. Beneath the veneer of mundanity, there are far stranger and more frightening things. In suburban basements, secretive cults worship old, alien gods, offering sacrifices of spilled blood and burned banknotes. Strange creatures live in the sewers and catacombs and subway tunnels, things that look human at first glance but behave in profoundly odd ways and display weird and unnatural powers. Driven men and women conduct research into the occult, unlocking the forbidden powers of the arcane and hiding their experimentation from the authorities. University libraries contain books kept under lock and key, so that only the most trusted scholars are allowed to study them, for fear of releasing things humanity is better off ignorant of. In the penthouse apartments of business-district tower blocks, the wealthy traffic in things best left alone to scrape whatever advantage they can over their rivals.

In this world, the supernatural is frighteningly real. It is an old and unpredictable force, a harbinger of madness and death and widespread destruction. Magic corrupts and inhuman beings prey upon humanity.

The mundane authorities are well aware of this. Considering the massive damage that can be done by a magical mishap, how could they not be? Knowledge of the supernatural is suppressed, trading in magical supplies proscribed, and esoteric organisations frequently investigated and prosecuted. Most law enforcement agencies deal with occult crimes at least tangentially, and many have entire departments dedicated to keeping the supernatural under control.

The Occult Underground
Of course, banning the occult doesn’t mean it goes away, just that it is practiced in secret. The occult underground is a loose network of cultists, magicians, criminals and monsters. Away from the eyes of the law, they meet to trade information, settle disputes and pursue their various goals. Many members of the underground don’t practice magic themselves, seeing the dangers as outweighing the benefits, but are willing to aid and abet those who do, so long as they get paid.

The underground is active and thriving, but it’s far from united. Rather, all manner of rival gangs, covens and conspiracies are forced into the same space and squabble among themselves for resources and influence. Gang wars are common, with rival groups competing to hold territory, secure sources of income and increase their prestige. Often, these wars turn bloody, with spells and bullets being used to solve disputes with sudden brutality.

Whilst most members of the underground are a mix of common criminals and hedge-magicians, there are other, stranger powers active. Many gangs function as cults, revering some strange entity. Sometimes this is a distant deity who responds only with vague gifts and omens, but at other times the focus of their reverence is very real. Aboleths, ancient vampires, cunning paradox beasts and the surreal nobility of the fae are all known to establish cults of worshippers.
Other factions in the underground take a form that is less pious but no less odd. Packs of undead predators, courts of fairies, and semi-sentient viruses all form their own power blocks in the underground. Where the motives of a gang of criminals are easily understood - money, power and so on - these beings’ goals can be far more bizarre.

The Undercity
Beneath most cities, there is an undercity. A mess of sewers, catacombs, bricked up basements, subway tunnels, caverns, burrows, mines, bunkers, and more, all jumbled together in one tangled mass. The undercity is as old as the city is, often dating back to medieval times or before.

These places are inhabited. Vagrants and fugitives often drift down here, where the eyes of mundane society can’t reach them. They are safe from the law and the disapproval of regular folks, if vulnerable to stranger things. Likewise, criminals (occult and mundane) frequently use the undercity to hide their activity; frequently the underground markets are literally underground. The inhabitants leech electricity from the mains above them, building semi-permanent structures that become their homes and meeting places. Without the influence of the law, territory is jealously guarded, and neutral ground to meet on becomes a tense, if busy, place.

The undercity is inhabited by more than just humans. All manner of supernatural beings make their way down here. Subterranean races of morlocks and mole-people and svartalfr are not uncommon, beings whose natural inclination is to burrow. Other monsters who can’t safely live on the surface, such as the most inhuman vampires or unnatural looking golems, likewise inhabit these places in relative anonymity. These beings mix and mingle with the regular humans down here, their weirdness diminished by their weird surroundings.

There are much worse things down here, too. Places in the undercity where explorers vanish without trace or where brutally dismembered corpses mark the boundaries. Old and alien beings dwell in the depths, things that crawled up from beneath the earth rather than coming down from the surface. Magic pools in the deep places of the world, creating strange and dangerous environments and spawning bizarre creatures which should not be able to live, yet do.

Sometimes, the more civilized inhabitants of the place coexist uneasily with these things, or send them regular tributes to keep them from rampaging. Sometimes, a silent war rages under the city streets between the dispossessed and the truly unnatural. Sometimes, the alien things win, and the undercity becomes a much nastier place to live.

The PCs
PCs are assumed to be a small gang active in the occult underground. They aren’t particularly powerful – at least not initially – and are likely to be doing jobs for more influential members in return for cash and favours.

An employer might have the gang do all manner of weird and borderline illegal things. They might be asked to raid a bank, museum or library to retrieve some useful occult item. They might be asked to assassinate the employer’s rivals, or to clean up evidence of their misdeeds. Frequently, they’re tasked with exploring the undercity, making contact with the things that exist down there or bringing back treasure that languishes in the dark beneath the city.

These jobs are often unseemly, but they bring the gang money, prestige and experience; over time, the more jobs they complete, the more power they will accrue until they are one of the movers and shakers of the occult underground themselves.
I promise I won't post any more filibusters like that directly from the text, but I think it's a good description. More about setting the tone than belaboring the players with lore and backstory.

Following this, we get the usual “what is an RPG” section that I’m not going to reproduce, along with a player advice section that reproduces a lot of “what is OSR” primers you can find on the internet. Don’t start fights you don’t think you can win, you’ll die if you’re not careful, you’ll die if you’re unlucky, use your brain, the world isn’t fair, etc.

Then it’s off to character creation. See you there in part two!

mellonbread fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jun 28, 2020

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

PurpleXVI posted:

While Good and Neutral petitioners more or less instantly assumed their new forms in their relevant end location on death, evil petitioners instead got turned into "larvae," big fat barely-sapient caterpillars occasionally used for all sorts of evil purposes by Baatezu, Tanar'ri and Yugoloths. Sometimes just eaten, sometimes used as juice for powerful magics and items, but most importantly the basic ingredient for the lowest tiers of all three types of creature. Gehenna and the Gray Waste were also home to the Night Hags, creatures that made it their business to capture, herd and trade larvae, alongside other evil shenanigans.

While most of that is present here, the book doesn’t add it up in into a coherent whole like that. I think the only part it doesn’t mention in the Lower Planes section is the whole “this is where evil things come from” part, which you’d think would be worth emphasizing.

mellonbread posted:

ESOTERIC ENTERPRISES PART 1: OVERVIEW
Hey FATAL and Friends. With the fate of the forums up in the air, there's no better time to start a new review. So let’s read Esoteric Enterprises!

:respek:

Looking forward to world creation and praying for random roll tables, since the .pdfs where those two combine usually end up in a sale for me.

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mellonbread
Dec 20, 2017
ESOTERIC ENTERPRISES PART 2: CHARGEN


Chargen begins with random rolling ability scores. 3D6 in order for Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma. Then you apply your ability score modifiers using a table. Like most D20 games, you use these modifiers for everything, and only occasionally glance at the ability scores themselves. So far this could be any grog D&D game.

The fashion now is to include some safety mechanism so you don’t end up with a character who’s totally useless. Esoteric Enterprises lets the player “invert” their ability scores by subtracting 21 from each and taking the absolute value. This makes your good scores bad and vice versa, so if you’ve got more bad scores than good, inverting is a good idea.

Next you choose your class. Since this is old time D&D, you’re encouraged to choose a class that fits with the random ability scores the game gave you. This game does some stuff with the skill system that makes choosing a class that fits your stats more important than in other retroclones. More on that in a second.

After this you roll Flesh and Grit, based on the class you chose. You might get anywhere between a D4 and a D10 of each. Flesh and Grit are a good design and we’ll talk about them once we get out of chargen.

Next you copy down your saving throws. There’s five, all reskinned versions of the ones from Lamentations. Stunning, Poison, Hazards, Machines and Magic. Saves are D20 roll-over the value on your sheet, but the game also modifies them based on your ability scores.

Then your skills. They all start at “1 in 6”, unless you’ve got a special class ability that sets them to a different value. Again, straight out of Lamentations, but there are a lot more skills, AND they’re modified by your ability score modifiers.
  • Athletics is modified by STR
  • Charm is CHA
  • Contacts is CHA
  • Driving is DEX
  • Forensics is WIS
  • Medicine is INT
  • Perception is WIS
  • Stealth is DEX
  • Technology is INT
  • Translation is INT
  • Vandalism is STR
You might notice that it’s possible to start with a skill at 0 out of 6 due to an ability score modifier. For some classes, it’s also possible to start with 6 in 6. I’m queuing up a lot of ominous “we’ll discuss that later”s and this is probably the biggest one.

Now starting equipment. You get five items, plus or minus your INT modifier, plus any class bonuses. In a genre of games that prizes fast and simple character creation, equipment selection has always been the biggest pain in the rear end. Shopping through huge gear lists and price sheets, which the players are usually seeing for the first time. Starting equipment packages are an obvious antidote, and Esoteric Enterprises doesn’t have them. It at least dispenses with starting money and just asks the player to choose a flat number of items, while ensuring that no more than a certain number have the “rare” tag.

In addition to physical items, you can also use your starting allotment to buy “social advantages” that give you always-on perks, like access to a safehouse or laboratory. These can’t be bought outside chargen, so like Eclipse Phase 1e there’s a tiny incentive to eschew physical items and load up on positive reputation modifiers.

There are actually a couple other steps you have to take care of, but they’re not in the character creation section of the book.



CLASSES
Let’s talk about the classes. I’m going to include a little editorializing with each one, based on how I’ve seen them shake out in play.

BODYGUARDS
Bodyguards are a combat class with decent saves, a bonus to Perception (most people start with none), big hit dice and a free CON bonus. They can carry twice as many items as everyone else (this is a LOT more important than you might think). They also get the ability to use “combat maneuvers” without taking any penalties, in essence giving them free positive modifiers during combat. The only downside is that they don’t actually have the ability to bodyguard people. The NPC bodyguard stat block includes the ability to step in front of an attack directed at an ally, but the player version of the class gets no such ability.

By the author’s own admission, Bodyguards are a reskinned Dwarf from Lamentations. They have the same slightly-slower-than-a-fighter XP advancement rate, requiring 2,200 points to reach Level 2.

Bodyguards are awesome. Play a bodyguard.

CRIMINALS
Criminals get 6 skill points to spend how they please, plus 4 more each level afterward. Esoteric Enterprises has an extremely punishing skill system, and the ability to reliably succeed at a couple important things should not be discounted. If you’ve got even a small positive modifier to something like CHA or INT, those 6 points can buy a skill up to 6 in 6 - an almost guaranteed chance of success.

Criminals also get two extra starting items, but they MUST be taken from the “adventuring gear” list.

Criminals are ok. Personally I think they should have made the skill system not-bullshit, rather than having one class that was good at anything.



DOCTORS
Doctors get free points of healing that can be applied to a patient’s Flesh points (which are harder to recover than Grit). They start the game with 5 out of 6 medicine, meaning if you have a +1 INT modifier you can start with 6 in 6. They also get the “experimental medicine” ability, meaning they can use body parts taken from dungeon monsters to upgrade their allies via grafts and surgery.

Having a Doctor makes a MASSIVE difference in the trajectory of the average group. First of all because half the results on the game’s death and dismemberment table include a “bleeding out” condition that’s fatal if not immediately treated with a Medicine roll. Second, because those results also include a bunch of permanent injuries that make your already-garbage character borderline useless. Injuries the doctor can rewrite out of existence in their lab. Finally, because they can give you special powers from the creatures you kill. The experimental medicine system is explained later but barely covered in any detail. Aside from a Medicine roll and a saving throw the book just tells the DM to wing it.

EXPLORERS
Explorers are movement machines. They start with 5 Athletics and 3 Stealth, allowing them to zip around the dungeon with relative ease compared to their 1 Athletics 1 Stealth brethren. They also get a free boost to DEX and AC, making them even harder to pin down. The downside is that they treat any weapon as one die-size smaller than it actually is when rolling for damage. It’s fluffed as the Explorer being a pacifist and unaccustomed to violence, but in reality it’s because the Explorer is a reskinned Halfling from D&D.

The explorer is a weird inclusion and a little redundant. You can already make a guy with 5 Athletics and 3 Stealth at chargen by taking a Criminal and buying those skills, and you don’t get a penalty to weapons. AND the Explorer takes more XP to level up than the Criminal.



MERCENARY
Take a Bodyguard, make the saves worse, take away the CON and perception bonuses, remove the ability to carry more items, but give them +1 to hit and a couple extra items that MUST Be taken from the weapons and armor list.

Yes, mercenaries get +1 to hit every level, and yes they’re the only class in the game that does. Considering how often you actually level and how much +1 to hit is worth, I’d stick with the bodyguard.

MYSTICS
Charisma based casters who can cast a small number of spells a potentially infinite number of times, but must beseech a patron deity every time they do. How do they beseech that deity? By rolling Charm. What’s their base Charm? 1 in 6, same as everyone else. What happens if they fail the Charm roll? They have to roll on a miscast table to find out. But hey, once you reach level three, your Charm goes up to 2 IN 6! Wow!

Mystics suck. They have a miniscule chance to cast spells because the game doesn’t give them a bonus to the thing they HAVE TO ROLL in order to do so. The miscast table ranges from “you don’t cast the spell” to “you don’t cast the spell and something bad happens to you”. I understand what they were going for here - a combination of warlock and wild-magic sorcerer that has all kinds of wacky cascading magical effects. But guess what? When death is a single round away, a 2 in 6 chance to cast the spell you need to survive isn’t an exciting opportunity for emergent gameplay, it’s a giant gently caress-you.

They have the ability to “bless” other characters by giving them a prepackaged spell for use at a later time. What happens when the other character casts the spell? THEY have to roll Charm, and then the mystic rolls again on a DIFFERENT miscast table, even if the spell actually succeeds (it won’t).

Don’t play a mystic.



OCCULTIST
Your bog standard vancian caster, and better than the Mystic in basically every way. You’ve got your tiny spell list to start, but you can add more at chargen by buying tomes with your starting equipment. You have a small number of spell slots, but you can cast any spell you want from your spellbook without memorization, as many times as you want, as long as you spend a dungeon turn (10 minutes) doing so.

You can even cast spells above your level, requiring a save and risking a roll on an admittedly much more dangerous miscast table than the Mystic one.

The one downside to occultists is that once they’re out of chargen in-the-wild, they have to make a Translation roll to copy new spells into their spellbook, or get boned by ANOTHER miscast table. What’s their translation skill? 1 in 6. Even they aren’t immune to the awful skill system.

Occultists are better than mystics in just about every way. If you want to cast spells, play an occultist.

SPOOK
The “monster” class. Choose a supernatural origin, then choose special powers from that origin’s theme. You’ve got garbage skills and mediocre saves, but your origin and the power you choose give you a suite of special strengths, weaknesses, and abilities. Be a goblin who erases people’s memories, or a vampire who climbs on walls, or a machine-man who ambushes people and slashes their throats.

The Spook powers aren't listed in chagen. They're in a separate section of the book, like the magic user spells, and we'll cover them in another post.

There are a lot of borderline-useless abilities and some pretty good ones. So far I haven’t seen anyone make a really broken character. So far the “fey” origin package has been most popular with my players. Overall Spooks are fun, and a good way to salvage a character whose ability scores are uninspiring even after inversion.



That's all the classes the game has to offer. After that comes the gear list.

EQUIPMENT
The equipment list isn’t huge, but I’ll stick to the high points anyway.

To start, the game offers a spread of weapons. Hand weapons offer increasing damage in exchange for increasing encumbrance and decreasing concealability. Firearms offer a similar gradation. Pistols don’t take up an inventory slot, shotguns do high damage up close, and automatic rifles let you take the “covering fire” action. You’ve also got grenades and flamethrowers, which let you make an area attack without rolling to-hit.

Unlike a lot of games, the tradeoff between weight and the benefits an item gives you is actually meaningful in EE. You don’t have many inventory slots, and encumbrance is actually simple and well integrated into the game, rather than being a pain in the rear end or irrelevant afterthought. Most players end up rocking pistols and light hand weapons if they want space for treasure.

Armor similarly runs the gamut from light to heavy, with increasing protectivity along the way. The leather jacket doesn’t fill a slot, the flak vest takes one slot, and the riot armor increases your encumbrance by a whole level. Don’t take the riot armor unless you’re a bodyguard.

Adventuring gear. You’ve got flashlights, night vision goggles, smart phones, smoke grenades, door spikes, etc. Some of the items have defined mechanical uses, like boosting skills. Some of them just have a text description. It’s not always clear what they do in-game, like the difference between a first aid kit and surgeon’s tools - neither of which have any effect on your Medicine skill, apparently. The most essential items are a light source of some kind, climbing gear and a gas mask. The dungeon is dark, full of holes filled with horrible things, and full of spores, gas and corrosive fumes.

Then there’s a list of grimoires that Occultists can buy, to expand their starting spell list. I’m going to include this as a screencap, since I like it.



Lots of flavor, but notice that the spells aren’t listed by rank. The player has to open the game’s spell list to see what they can actually use at level one.

After this, a list of “esoteric equipment”. Weapon modifiers like blessed bullets and silver plating, to deal bonus damage to different types of underworld creatures. Stuff to increase your saves when casting different types of dangerous magic. A holy symbol, required for the mystic to cast spells, which is NOT MENTIONED anywhere in their class description.

A few vehicles. This depends on how much of the game you play on the surface, versus how much time you spend underground. In the first campaign I ran, almost nobody had a car. They took the bus and awkwardly stuffed their weapons in duffel bags when they needed to get around town above ground. One time they caused an outbreak of bubonic plague on the transit system.

Finally, social advantages.



A lot of these interact with the game’s “resource level” mechanics. This isn’t explained in the character creation chapter, but in brief, wealth is abstracted based on experience level, which is used to calculate your ability to acquire gear.

HOW DO I PLAY AS...
This section lists different character archetypes the players might be interested in, and then how to create them using the game’s mechanics. I don’t know how effective the whole thing is when your attributes are randomly generated. Some of it definitely feels like a kludge, using the system to create stuff it isn’t really good at representing. Some examples of the advice given.

Esoteric Enterprises, Pages 30 to 31 posted:

...Drug Dealer?
Probably a criminal. The Contacts skill is paramount, and Medicine and Forensics probably want to have some points too. Charisma should be high, as the social advantage ‘dealer’ can reflect the profit a drug dealer’s trade makes. Alternatively, a doctor also works, for a character who produces rather than merely distributing drugs; in this case, social backgrounds are similarly important.

...Elf, Nymph, Sidhe or Siren?
A spook with the Fairy origin. Unnatural Beauty, Mimic, Mesmerizing Gaze, and Mental Communication are appropriate powers, and Charisma probably wants to be high.

...Femme Fatale?
Any class works, but charm is your most important skill for this. Criminals can bump their social skills quite well. Alternatively, a mystic gets steady improvements to their Charm skill, so they can work well - particularly if they get access to spells such as Command and Gease. The key to this concept is in how she’s played; rely on high charisma and seduction to get others to do what you want.

...Meddling Kid?
Playing children younger than about 15 is likely to cause problems, as younger children don’t have the independence to really take part in the occult underground. Don’t do it unless the group’s concept is odd enough that child PCs make sense. Most kids will be members of the explorer class, since they’re involved with the underground out of teenage rebellion and excitement than the pursuit of profit or arcane power. Criminals might be kids from particularly rough backgrounds. It’s possible that a kid with an unfortunate connection to occult forces might be a mystic as well; The Black Goat makes a fun patron for teenagers so incredibly goth that they’ve ended up meddling in forces they can’t control.
Children under about 10 should really only be encountered as NPCs, either innocent victims of the occult, or creepy-rear end kids with blank eyes and knives.

...Swarm of Vermin Hidden In Human Skin?
A spook, with the Living origin. Detach Body Parts, Venom, Fluid Form, Web, and Animal Speech are appropriate powers.

...Troll, Jotun or Ogre?
A spook with the Fairy origin. Trackless, Bite Attack, Unnatural Strength, Hoard, and Resilience are good powers, and high Strength and Constitution help.

...Vagrant?
This is best represented with the Explorer class. You’ll probably want low charisma, since a vagrant is less likely to be taken seriously. Equipment should probably not have anything expensive, and the ‘off the grid’ social advantage reflects the lack of a fixed address well.

...Wandering Soul of a Coma Patient?
A Spook, with the ghostly origin. Any powers work well for this sort of character. Should they wake up from their coma, then they should probably be re-statted as first level human character, although their knowledge will carry over.

This section is far from perfect, but “here’s how you mechanically do X to create Y” is good advice, and more books should include it.

TABLES TO FLESH OUT PCS
A set of tables to roll interesting character details. You’ve got
  • Social class
  • Relationship with the player character on your left
  • First contact with the occult
  • Tragic flaw
  • Criminal record
  • How an occultist learned magic
  • Forms taken by holy symbols
  • Why a variant human spook is so weird
  • Dreams that spawned a fairy spook
  • Favored weapons
  • What killed a undead spook
  • Why a mundane character is involved with the occult
This is all fluff but it’s a nice touch. If you’re going through a lot of characters, it’s nice to quickly sprinkle some flavor on them before sending them into the underworld.

EXAMPLE CHARACTER
Let’s put together a character and see how all this fits together.

First, we roll 3D6 six times. I did this at my desk and got an 11, an 8, an 11, a 17, a 16 and a 13.

STR 11, DEX 8, CON 11, INT 17, WIS 16, CHA 13
Our modifiers are, respectively, 0, -1, 0, +2, +2, +1

I’ll be honest, this is a lot better than I was expecting. No need to flip these results, we’re doing quite well overall.

With all that intelligence, let’s make an Occultist

We’ve got a D4 of Flesh and a D4 of grit. I rolled again at my desk and got 4 Flesh and 3 Grit. Again, we’re ahead of the curve.

We save versus Stunning on a 13+, versus Hazards on a 13+, Poison on a 16+, Machines on a 13+, and magic on a 14+. Remember also that when we actually roll these, they’ll be modified by an ability score modifier.

Next we fill in our skills. They all start at 1, but get modified by ability scores.
  • Athletics is STR so starts at 1
  • Charm is CHA so starts at 2
  • Contacts is CHA so starts at 2
  • Driving is DEX so starts at 0
  • Forensics is WIS so starts at 3
  • Medicine is INT so starts at 3
  • Perception is WIS so starts at 3
  • Stealth is DEX so starts at 0
  • Technology is INT so starts at 3
  • Translation is INT so starts at 3
  • Vandalism is STR so starts at 1
Not bad, so long as we never have to be quiet. There are spells for that, right?

Speaking of spells, we start with a single one, randomly determined from the first level list. We’ll cover the spell list in full over a later post, but right now a D20 roll of 12 gets us… Light. Not a show stopper, but nice to have in the back pocket.

We have a +2 INT modifier, so we start with seven items instead of the usual five.

I’m thinking
  • Machete (D8 damage, Light)
  • Leather Armor (12 AC, Light)
  • Flashlight (Light)
  • Gas Mask
  • The Grimoire Galdrabók by Natan Lindqvis (gives us access to the life saving spell Cure Wounds, plus Neutralise Poison and Cure Disease)
  • A Ritual Mask (light, gives us bonuses to saves when casting spells beyond our level)
  • A Safe House from the social advantages table
Our Occultist is good with people, good with books, and awful with their hands. I’m thinking they’d keep Cure Wounds memorized in their one spell slot for emergency healing, and the other spells would stay in the book to be cast as-needed using a ten minute turn.

Just for fun, let’s give our Occultist some personality using the random roll tables. A roll of 3 for Social Class gets us skilled working class, a 4 for How the Occultist Learned Magic gets us Experimentation whilst taking like, so many drugs, man, a 4 for our tragic flaw is Overly curious about things best left unknown, and our criminal record roll of 8 is Worship of an interdicted inhuman being.

So our wizard is an acid head who accidentally plugged into the dreaming mind of a minor deity through abuse of strange chemicals. This was a positive experience and she continued doing it until she got caught (for the first time) by the MIBs. She will try anything once and if I had known this is the kind of character I was working on, I’d probably have picked a different spellbook. Something with more mushrooms and astral projection in it.

OVERALL
How do I feel about character creation in Esoteric Enterprises? Full disclosure, I’ve run the game for a few months, but never actually experienced it as a player.

Logistically, it’s in an annoying place: just barely too complicated to do quickly at the table, but it also doesn’t offer much customization outside a couple of the classes. Retro games have always annoyed me with their huge tables of saving throws and unnecessarily detailed equipment purchase lists, and Esoteric Enterprises manages to offend even more by requiring the players to factor their ability score modifiers into both their saves AND skills. I had a player describe it as “the worst possible combination of OSR and 5E” and I agree.

There are some redundancies among the classes. Bodyguard and Mercenary are almost identical, and the Explorer is just a specific build for a Criminal. The Mystic is distinct from the Occultist, but also sucks and nobody should play them.

In spite of all that, it works. It’s hacked together and I’ve further muddied the waters by houseruling the poo poo out of it in my own game, but it’s functional and even fun to make characters with.

We’ll be covering other stuff in future segments that interacts with the character creation mechanics, but that’s it for now. See you in part three, when we dig into the base rules.

Falconier111 posted:

Looking forward to world creation and praying for random roll tables, since the .pdfs where those two combine usually end up in a sale for me.
There will be random tables for world creation in abundance, but they'll be a bit delayed in arriving. I forgot just how much content there is to chew through before we get to the section where we generate the underworld.

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