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There used to be a proper medieval history thread, but it kinda died. The medieval period is kinda weird, since there's comparatively less known about it (at least if you focus on Europe) and a whole lot that we do know winds up being actually from the time period directly after it was over. And then people often want to talk about native americans, which the vast bulk of what we know about them tends to come from long after the ancient and medieval period. But then, it's also fairly hard to keep track of the "era" outside of Europe, like in China or India or Japan. I think it's best to keep things more manageable with a smaller target subject instead of just talking all history all the time in one thread, but then I also want to talk all history, so I dunno. Wherever you draw the line geographically or temporally, it'll end up being fuzzy, because all history is interconnected.
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Jun 25, 2020 20:36
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Discussing prehistory is hosed because if you don't have journal access you really can't do much larnin' about archaeology.
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Jun 25, 2020 20:39
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shovelbum posted:no one is getting "shrieked at" there unless they are US-standards right wing I have had a non-trivial number of cases where people I know who define themselves proudly as leftists have yelled at me for "being a loving lib," etc. in contexts not involving explicit political discussion, because I personally favored the other progressive in the Democratic primary. This has included long time friends, some of whom are not friends any more. I did not really seek out these discussions. If a similar phenomenon of someone walking into, say, an ancient history thread and posting liberals liberals LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS!! like the Mallard Fillmore guy happened (say, in the context of people discussing 17th/18th century political thinkers), would the rules and regulations at BNR treat this as the problem being on Mr. Liberals Liberals Liberals?
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Jun 25, 2020 21:08
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Nessus posted:I assume you're talking about BNR so I'm gonna slap my own case on the line here. This is purely my own situation. Yeah I mean their main rule is basically don't be an rear end in a top hat, so I think if someone is trying to drag a thread off course with personal attacks then it's not going to be tolerated.
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Jun 25, 2020 21:20
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shovelbum posted:Yeah I mean their main rule is basically don't be an rear end in a top hat, so I think if someone is trying to drag a thread off course with personal attacks then it's not going to be tolerated.
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Jun 25, 2020 21:21
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a fatguy baldspot posted:Benghazi was a goon project Well, I mean, there were goons on the ground for that one...
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Jun 25, 2020 22:17
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Anyone have a referral code for BnR? I hope it's not gauche to ask.
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Jun 25, 2020 22:48
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You don't need one at the moment. It just takes a while to be approved because so many people are jumping ship.
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Jun 25, 2020 22:52
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It seems reasonable to have multiple history threads, because discussing all of human history in one thread seems silly; having some thread boundaries is necessary to keep conversation coherent, and I think people will feel more free to talk about particular areas of history if there's a thread that corresponds to them with some degree of specificity. Where you'd divide things is less clear. There's a fairly clear boundary between "ancient" and "medieval" for the Roman Empire/Europe, and even for the Middle East, but less so for other parts of the world, and it feels like people who are interested in East Asian history tend to be interested in things both before and after any given date. So it might make more sense to divide things up by region...but I think the traditional ancient/medieval/modern boundaries in European history match up with a lot of people's subjective interests. And dividing things by region and period might result in too many threads. Also, the ideological stakes of historical discussion tend to get higher the closer you get to the present, so some people might prefer threads where 20th- and even 19th-century history is off-limits. So maybe five threads: ancient, medieval, early modern, long 19th century, WWI onwards. The boundaries between ancient and medieval and between medieval and early modern can be deliberately fuzzy, so long as the 1789 and 1914 boundaries are hard rules. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jun 25, 2020 |
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Jun 25, 2020 22:59
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Fuzzy boundaries I think are necessities for any good history thread, you can't really discuss any major event without briefly going outside of a specificed history catagory if your ever gonna go into why it happened or what the eventual concequinces of it.
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Jun 25, 2020 23:55
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To drag this thread back to its subject matter, I wonder if the way people are behaving in the forums right now is similar to how average Romans behaved during one of those civil wars where a provincial general was declared emperor and everyone had to wait around until he won or lost his coup attempt.
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Jun 25, 2020 23:58
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:To drag this thread back to its subject matter, I wonder if the way people are behaving in the forums right now is similar to how average Romans behaved during one of those civil wars where a provincial general was declared emperor and everyone had to wait around until he won or lost his coup attempt. And most people not knowing who won for weeks afterword.
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Jun 26, 2020 00:02
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At this point im confident my reactions to most things will be a shitpost, so probably
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Jun 26, 2020 00:07
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:To drag this thread back to its subject matter, I wonder if the way people are behaving in the forums right now is similar to how average Romans behaved during one of those civil wars where a provincial general was declared emperor and everyone had to wait around until he won or lost his coup attempt. I always wondered what it was like to be some independent farmer in a area a tribe settled in during the western empires collapse. like we're you more likely to be killed for your land or would you just have some new neighbor your trying to teach agriculture to dispite not even knowing what loving language they're spesking
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Jun 26, 2020 00:15
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Agean90 posted:I always wondered what it was like to be some independent farmer in a area a tribe settled in during the western empires collapse. It varied by region, but for the most part unless you were unlucky enough to be in the path of battle, it seems like little changed. The new bosses didn't want to destroy the Roman way of life, they wanted to be part of it. If you kill a bunch of farmers for no reason, they aren't paying you taxes. The big changes were to urban life--its end everywhere outside Italy and bits of Spain, more or less. Farmers were still farming, and while culture and life shifted around them, it didn't fundamentally upend their way of life. Your first son goes off and learns a Germanic language instead of Latin and is in a warband instead of joining the army or bureaucracy, but it's not that different. Britain is a notable exception, since the province went from Roman to complete power vacuum in a very short period of time. It was a breakdown unlike anywhere else in the west. That said, it was still less severe for a farmer than for someone who had lived in the cities.
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Jun 26, 2020 00:37
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Agean90 posted:I always wondered what it was like to be some independent farmer in a area a tribe settled in during the western empires collapse. If you want a slightly more ground-level view than usual of the disintegration of the western empire, I recommend reading Eugippius’ “Life of St Severinus”. It’s a clerical source obviously and mostly concerned with how awesome its subject was, but it’s near-contemporary and conveys a great feel for what life on the upper Danube frontier was like as the frontier ceased to exist. (Fairly lovely from the sound of it.)
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Jun 26, 2020 01:11
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GoutPatrol posted:And most people not knowing who won for weeks afterword.  the Cursus Goatsecus is very fast these days.
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Jun 26, 2020 02:17
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Welp. I really did not see that happening but I am happy. Back to the Hispania silver mines.
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Jun 26, 2020 02:40
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guess I gotta make that early modern thread on these forums instead
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Jun 26, 2020 02:44
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cheetah7071 posted:guess I gotta make that early modern thread on these forums instead early modem thread [46k warning]
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Jun 26, 2020 02:46
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Ok let's start off this post-Crisis session right. What was the worst place to be in the ancient world?
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Jun 26, 2020 03:08
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Lawman 0 posted:Ok let's start off this post-Crisis session right.
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Jun 26, 2020 03:14
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Torture chamber.
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Jun 26, 2020 03:19
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Jun 26, 2020 03:34
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Lawman 0 posted:Ok let's start off this post-Crisis session right. Roman state mines The Lone Badger posted:Torture chamber. I don’t know if people in antiquity did torture chambers, did they? For Romans at least torture was a public judicial practice, the whole point was to show it off to everyone. Hence the extremely visible scourging/hanging of Christ.
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Jun 26, 2020 03:43
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Lawman 0 posted:Ok let's start off this post-Crisis session right. Vomitorium janitor, no doubt.
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Jun 26, 2020 03:44
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Woman giving birth seems like a bad place to be
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Jun 26, 2020 03:45
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Agean90 posted:I always wondered what it was like to be some independent farmer in a area a tribe settled in during the western empires collapse. It's not like the barbarians across the Danube had no idea what the gently caress a plough was, they weren't ooga-booga cavemen, they too were settled and had agriculture/metalworking. The life of a farmer within the borders of rome aren't going to be that drastically different from one just outside their borders. Heck, the Germanic tribes also had towns that made small nodes within transportation networks, where workshops and craftsmen could reside and produce their goods for trade and distribution. The main difference is that they lacked the really large cities, which can act as major nodes within a trade network and facilitate transportation of bulk goods. But the majority of those cities were clustered around the Mediterranean, a nice temperate sea, that is navigatable year-round, with thousands of years of settlement with established trade networks.
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Jun 26, 2020 03:53
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euphronius posted:Woman giving birth seems like a bad place to be Yeah even amazing Roman medicine didn't save women from breech birth or postpartum infections/bleeding. Slaves in the mines had longer to live, on average, than even well off women in their ninth month of pregnancy.
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Jun 26, 2020 04:58
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Agean90 posted:I always wondered what it was like to be some independent farmer in a area a tribe settled in during the western empires collapse. Most farmed areas of the Western Empire were latifundia owned by absentee nobles or imperial lands. Barbarian kings simply came in and took over the imperial lands and distributed them to their family and friends. Or kept them for themselves. After hundreds of years of Emperors confiscating land for treason or rebellion or nonpayment of taxes, there was plenty to go around. As a farmer, you'd probably just have a new rear end in a top hat to work for. Independent farmers were a rarity in the 5th century. Things were different in Britain, but Britain was a no account shithole on the periphery.
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Jun 26, 2020 05:03
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Lawman 0 posted:Ok let's start off this post-Crisis session right. adjacent to an expansionist empire
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Jun 26, 2020 05:04
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skasion posted:I don’t know if people in antiquity did torture chambers, did they? For Romans at least torture was a public judicial practice, the whole point was to show it off to everyone. Hence the extremely visible scourging/hanging of Christ. Ok then 'between two boats, next to a lake'.
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Jun 26, 2020 05:06
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Yeah even amazing Roman medicine didn't save women from breech birth or postpartum infections/bleeding. Slaves in the mines had longer to live, on average, than even well off women in their ninth month of pregnancy. Do you have stats on that? I've just been reading about Khoisan women giving birth usually alone in the bush, with almost no medical ability. This seems like the kind of behaviour that would die out very soon if pregnancy was that dangerous, and one book mentions 2/500 maternal deaths in childbirth. The author speculates that it's because solo childbirth lowers the risk of infection.
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Jun 26, 2020 05:30
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I absolutely do not have exact statistics on the mortality of Ancient Roman women giving birth, neither do I have precise numbers to share about Ancient Roman men in iron, lead, or salt mines.
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Jun 26, 2020 05:34
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what the heck
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Jun 26, 2020 05:34
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If solo childbirth is usually not going to give you a postpartum infection I'll tell you Roman women were at a disadvantage because midwifery was a big business in Ancient Rome and they didn't know about washing their hands
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Jun 26, 2020 05:35
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Safety Biscuits posted:Do you have stats on that? I've just been reading about Khoisan women giving birth usually alone in the bush, with almost no medical ability. This seems like the kind of behaviour that would die out very soon if pregnancy was that dangerous, and one book mentions 2/500 maternal deaths in childbirth. The author speculates that it's because solo childbirth lowers the risk of infection. I'm not an expert but my understand is diet can have a profound effect on maternal mortality rates. I can't remember the specifics but in places where women's diets are bad death rates skyrocket.
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Jun 26, 2020 05:38
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Nessus posted:Thera at a particular time, although I don't know EXACTLY what time that was. What is Thera & why was it so bad?
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Jun 26, 2020 05:39
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tildes posted:What is Thera & why was it so bad? There is a volcano and it exploded
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Jun 26, 2020 05:40
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cheetah7071 posted:that's why you gotta exclude 20th century history from the successor to this thread; in an explicitly leftist space, pushing specific interpretations of the 20th century is going to be critical in a way that isn't the case for anything earlier
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Jun 26, 2020 05:41
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