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Fritz Coldcockin posted:You'd think, but Trump has such an iron grip on the chuds that they will do whatever he tells them--and if he senses even a WHIFF of rebellion among the rank-and-file, he'll start viciously attacking whoever is responsible. But if they're seeing electoral negatives from associating with him his attacks won't have the same bite. I mean this is really only going to apply to select Republicans in maybe purple areas, but at the end of the day Trump will not be as scary as losing their job in the first place. Especially if it looks like he's losing himself.
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Jun 27, 2020 17:12
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Grape posted:But if they're seeing electoral negatives from associating with him his attacks won't have the same bite. Well it will be interesting to see how many jump ship. Trump is now losing even rank and file Conservatives as evidenced by the troublesome numbers in places like Texas now. You are seeing them publicly say he needs to change course which is normally the precursor to dropping. Most candidates would take the hint as it is has probably been expressed privately a number of times more explicitly. Why they didn't flex on him early on and got him under control I have no idea. What will be interesting is to see how they handle both the base and their own history of creating and enabling him. Trump is a monster of their own creation and like many monsters will likely come back to kill them all.
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Jun 27, 2020 17:29
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Fun fact: The ACA just turned 10 back in March (we may have been preoccupied with aerosolized death to notice). That means that the GOP has had literally a decade to come up with an alternative plan. More, really, if you count the run-up time to the ACA. They have jack and poo poo beyond "Repeal and replace" It's probably a fair point worth illustrating for dems.
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Jun 27, 2020 18:15
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My final comment to the privileged Liberals in this thread who have spent the past few months distracting themselves with horse-race nonsense so that they had a distraction that enabled their willingly blindness to the obvious truth about Biden: look at what's playing out right now on something awful with regards to Lowtax- this is a preview of the future of the democratic party with Biden as its leader. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTlv5_Bs8aw
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Jun 27, 2020 18:24
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OAquinas posted:Fun fact: The ACA just turned 10 back in March (we may have been preoccupied with aerosolized death to notice). what's tough is that they do have an alternative plan - return to the pre-ACA status quo - which was universally despised and would be dramatically worse for millions of people. they just can't say that out loud, so they're left with 'we'll have the best plan ever, promise!'. its why health care has always been such a losing issue for trump, and why his court case finally working its way to the SC at this time is just another 'getting hosed by events' happenings in our timeline
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Jun 27, 2020 18:24
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Well the ACA is the Republican plan. Which is quite hilarious on a certain level to see them rail against it so much. The only other options are either absolutely nothing and going back to the way things were, which I wouldn't be surprised if there was support for that in the business circles since it would save them money and gently caress the poors. Or you know universal health care which they business side isn't going to get on board with since it will decimate the insurance industry and massively gut the inflated profits of hospital and health care industries. So they will fight against the ACA because they are stuck in a corner doing it. What will happen if they actually get rid of it somehow? I am sure it will be like every other time the GOP gets something they actually never thought they would have and look stupid. They are embodiment of the dog that chases that car.
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Jun 27, 2020 18:30
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The ACA is not really a republican plan, it was a plan that's similar to one passed by a republican in a blue state, but never would have been the plan in any red state (which is just do nothing). There's also major differences between Romneycare and the PPACA.
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Jun 27, 2020 18:51
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:You'd think, but Trump has such an iron grip on the chuds that they will do whatever he tells them--and if he senses even a WHIFF of rebellion among the rank-and-file, he'll start viciously attacking whoever is responsible. Unless they sense it’s to their electoral advantage. The only caveat is whether they figure their own election is a lost cause either way, in which case it becomes about which direction threatens their post politics career the most.
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Jun 27, 2020 18:51
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OAquinas posted:Fun fact: The ACA just turned 10 back in March (we may have been preoccupied with aerosolized death to notice). The ACA has lasted longer than the Confederacy 
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Jun 27, 2020 18:55
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Raenir Salazar posted:The ACA is not really a republican plan, it was a plan that's similar to one passed by a republican in a blue state, but never would have been the plan in any red state (which is just do nothing). There's also major differences between Romneycare and the PPACA. The basis of both the ACA and Romneycare come from the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993 which was created by the Heritage Foundation to be the Republican Alternative to the Clinton Health Care plan. They may have added a few things to the ACA, like the Medicare expansion and employer mandated contributions to insurance but by and large it comes from conservatives and is designed to be a giveaway to insurance.
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Jun 27, 2020 19:03
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Saying its a Republican plan though is like saying the Democrats are the party of the confederacy, the context of which it was developed no longer exists and the Republican party if 1993 no longer exists, its basically a form of scaremongering.
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Jun 27, 2020 19:06
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Raenir Salazar posted:Saying its a Republican plan though is like saying the Democrats are the party of the confederacy, the context of which it was developed no longer exists and the Republican party if 1993 no longer exists, its basically a form of scaremongering. Kinda, yeah. ACA is problematic at best but it has kept people I know and myself on our various healthcare’s for better. Obviously we should do better now.
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Jun 27, 2020 19:15
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Ague Proof posted:It is still strange to me that the best political asset, at least for this moment, appears to be inspiring no strong feelings for or against you. It's not really strange that after being forced to watch a hateful circus clown be president people are thinking a boring whitebread middle management type sounds infinitely preferable.
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Jun 27, 2020 21:53
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The Affordable Care Act isn't that good, but is better than nothing, which is the Republican health care plan.
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Jun 27, 2020 21:54
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I'm really more curious as to the Student Loan crisis, relief Biden has promised it looks really good.
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Jun 27, 2020 22:21
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My fiance would be dead without the ACA as would anyone with a chronic illness. Remember coverage caps? "Oh...you need how many procedures? Yeah nah, we arent covering that because you met the cap." Oh and if she ever lost her insurance she eould just die because Crohns Disease is as pre-existing condition. I think a lot of work can be done to make the ACA the vehicle to becoming a Single Payer system, but M4A was dead in the senate by at least 10 votes. There was just no way to get it through to the desk of the executive. In the meantime, the ACA helped a shitton of people and is still helping them.
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Jun 27, 2020 23:01
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Basically, "it was a republican plan" was good to say circa 2010 as a rebuttal to boomers who argued things like "it was rammed down our throats" (despite it being in committee for months), and because they claimed it was SOCIALISM. Claiming it's a republican now basically is a disingenuous way of attacking Democrats to advance an agenda as a means of painting people with guilt by association by conflating people who decent the PPACA as being "basically evil" because that's how crazy Republicans have become since then.
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Jun 27, 2020 23:09
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:It's not really strange that after being forced to watch a hateful circus clown be president people are thinking a boring whitebread middle management type sounds infinitely preferable. The question, though, is which of "strong population-level feelings both for and against" or "no strong population-level feelings for or against" will get people to go to the polls and risk their health and the health of those around them in the middle of an ongoing pandemic.
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Jun 27, 2020 23:53
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Somfin posted:The question, though, is which of "strong population-level feelings both for and against" or "no strong population-level feelings for or against" will get people to go to the polls and risk their health and the health of those around them in the middle of an ongoing pandemic. Based on 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020, as well as every poll the answer is “a lot”. Enthusiasm for Biden has had no effect so far on voter turnout. Also quite a few of the swing states will have no excuse core by mail, so...
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Jun 27, 2020 23:58
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Somfin posted:The question, though, is which of "strong population-level feelings both for and against" or "no strong population-level feelings for or against" will get people to go to the polls and risk their health and the health of those around them in the middle of an ongoing pandemic. i mean, democratic primaries have seen record turnout. the "strong population-level feelings against trump" are pretty strong even if the feelings for biden aren't
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Jun 27, 2020 23:59
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Hollismason posted:I'm really more curious as to the Student Loan crisis, relief Biden has promised it looks really good. It really hurts at the margins though. I just skimmed through his policy page on it and it only seems to mention lowering payments for undergraduate loans and also his public service loan forgiveness reform plan absolutely screws anyone that has graduate loans. It gives $10k per year, but caps at 5 years of eligible forgiveness. Just using myself as an example, but I went to law school and accrued over $100k of debt (and my school was a public school with one of the cheaper tuitions available). I went into public service after graduating, turning down higher paying jobs, because I wanted to help and also counting on the availability of debt cancellation for public service after 10 years. I'm now already 5 years in. I've been paying on a income contingent repayment plan this whole time, as public service attorneys don't exactly make big bucks. In fact, my payment is such that I'm not actually lowering the principal of my loan at all. My loan balance is higher now after 5+ years of full time employment and on time payments than it was when I graduated. Under Biden's proposal I would (I think) immediately earn $50k of debt cancellation, still holding a near-mortgage sized bag of debt, and apparently not qualify for any of the new lower rates as those are specifically for undergraduate loans. It would loving suck for people in a similar position to me, though I do admit it would be a marked improvement for many.
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Jun 28, 2020 00:21
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I might be reading his plan differently, but it does not seem to change the existing public service forgiveness, just expands it - he calls the existing program broken and says he’ll make a different, simpler program, but that program is very different with different goals - so I would think they’d both work?
Seven Hundred Bee fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jun 28, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 00:23
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:I might be reading his plan differently, but it does not seem to change the existing public service forgiveness, just expands it - he calls the existing program broken and says he’ll make a different, simpler program, but that program is very different with different goals - so I would think they’d both work? "Make loan forgiveness work for public servants by creating a new, simple program that offers $10,000 of undergraduate or graduate student debt relief for every year of national or community service, up to five years."
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Jun 28, 2020 01:14
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Raenir Salazar posted:Basically, "it was a republican plan" was good to say circa 2010 as a rebuttal to boomers who argued things like "it was rammed down our throats" (despite it being in committee for months), and because they claimed it was SOCIALISM. PPACA was a republican plan in 1993 but it's incorrect to call it a republican plan now because the Democratic party of today is the 1993 Republican party, so it's a Democrat plan now, just like destroying social security
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Jun 28, 2020 03:49
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 https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1277073725821779970
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Jun 28, 2020 04:31
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If Jones holds on in Alabama, the Dems are all but guaranteed to have a Senate majority. If they are winning Alabama they almost assuredly are winning AZ, CO, ME, and NC.
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Jun 28, 2020 04:39
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That’s interesting as hell. No wonder why there is already stories from GOP Senators. They have to be losing it behind closed doors.
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Jun 28, 2020 04:39
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Like if Jones wins re-election vs a non pedophile appointment that has to be, what, a 20 point shift?
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Jun 28, 2020 04:46
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:Like if Jones wins re-election vs a non pedophile appointment that has to be, what, a 20 point shift? At least. Probably more considering the voter suppression and decades of entrenchment.
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Jun 28, 2020 04:59
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I would consider it completely absurd if Jones kept his seat, but if that were to happen then I'll bets are off everywhere pretty much.
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Jun 28, 2020 05:06
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What is Jones' approval numbers?
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Jun 28, 2020 05:19
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Reminder that Doug Jones has a long history in Alabama, and is perhaps the only Democrat in the state who has any chance at all. (he was the prosecutor who resurrected an old cold case and convicted klansmen who bombed churches in the 60's) People generally see him as "great guy, its too bad he's a Democrat though, so I probably can't vote for him" That long history still should get him up to being defeated solidly instead of being completely crushed in a normal year. That incumbency and Trump might make it close is still amazing.
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Jun 28, 2020 05:28
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Djarum posted:What is Jones' approval numbers? 41-35 as of January.
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Jun 28, 2020 05:34
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Djarum posted:What is Jones' approval numbers? Not very well polled. He's generally more liked than not, but there's usually a huge undecided % (I think the last one was 39+/37-/24?) Jones is, as noted previously, probably the one Dem who could be pulling this off in AL; it's still blood red and probably not shifting too much. If he survives by the skin of his teeth, Senate majority is guaranteed. I wouldn't bet on it though, especially if Tuberville is the GOP nom. The good news (for everyone Not Doug Jones) is that the field is so wide you can bake in his seat as being lost and still have a ton of paths to majority.
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Jun 28, 2020 05:40
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OAquinas posted:I wouldn't bet on it though, especially if Tuberville is the GOP nom. The good news (for everyone Not Doug Jones) is that the field is so wide you can bake in his seat as being lost and still have a ton of paths to majority. I've basically been looking at things with that very assumption. I wish him luck though.
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Jun 28, 2020 05:50
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Rigel posted:Reminder that Doug Jones has a long history in Alabama, and is perhaps the only Democrat in the state who has any chance at all. (he was the prosecutor who resurrected an old cold case and convicted klansmen who bombed churches in the 60's) People generally see him as "great guy, its too bad he's a Democrat though, so I probably can't vote for him" It says a lot that to win a Senate seat in Alabama, you need a Democrat as good as Doug Jones and a Republican as bad as Roy Moore.
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Jun 28, 2020 06:05
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If Biden wins and Jones loses, you'd think he'd have a shot at AG
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Jun 28, 2020 06:14
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Charlz Guybon posted:If Biden wins and Jones loses, you'd think he'd have a shot at AG I’d like someone more progressive but I’d take him over like, Klobuchar
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Jun 28, 2020 06:25
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Has anyone polled Bama fans if they would rather vote for a Dem or an Auburn coach? ROLL TIDE
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Jun 28, 2020 07:24
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Rigel posted:Reminder that Doug Jones has a long history in Alabama, and is perhaps the only Democrat in the state who has any chance at all. (he was the prosecutor who resurrected an old cold case and convicted klansmen who bombed churches in the 60's) People generally see him as "great guy, its too bad he's a Democrat though, so I probably can't vote for him" Very interesting info, I admittedly don't know much about Jones and barely know more about Alabama politics since the Democratic Party there has been basically nonexistent for 30 years. I do wonder what the Trump effect will be there. Both Tuberville and Sessions had the taint on them. If things keep getting worse I can see it being more of a liability as time goes by.
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Jun 28, 2020 07:51
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