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Majorian posted:Given that the media is already touting how effective these ads are (when it remains to be seen if they have any effect whatsoever), it looks to me like the narrative is going to be, "Biden owes his victory to these 'moderate Republicans.'" Biden's natural inclination is to try to look bipartisan for its own sake, and will probably give these ghouls more access than they deserve (which is zero). Nevermind the fact that Rick Wilson is literally the piece of garbage who made the ad that slimed Max Cleland as unpatriotic. There is not even the slightest chance in hell that the media will give most of the credit to moderate republicans if Trump gets annihilated in November.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:15
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Majorian posted:Given that the media is already touting how effective these ads are (when it remains to be seen if they have any effect whatsoever), it looks to me like the narrative is going to be, "Biden owes his victory to these 'moderate Republicans.'" Biden's natural inclination is to try to look bipartisan for its own sake, and will probably give these ghouls more access than they deserve (which is zero). Nevermind the fact that Rick Wilson is literally the piece of garbage who made the ad that slimed Max Cleland as unpatriotic. or perhaps this thread has created an echo chamber wherein people ignore the significant, actual campaigning biden is doing, to instead breathlessly focus on tweets featuring super regional ads that are funny because they're designed to personally make trump feel bad (which is a good thing). nobody outside of the hot take online political journalism newcycle gives two fucks about the project lincoln ads (or has heard about them). its telling that the news story about these ads are from places like the independent, politico and alternet. there is absolutely zero evidence these ads have any sort of electoral effect, and, again, tellingly, all of the stories discussing them are in the context of how funny they are and how bad trump is. Seven Hundred Bee fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 20:15
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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s not just their embrace of the Lincoln Project fools. They are now openly embracing Republicans that are anti-Trump between MSNBC being full of them and a bunch of former Republicans openly endorsing Biden because he is the McCain/Romney-esque business conservative that they want What exactly would be beneficial to them speaking out against these people and telling them to vote for Trump instead? Why in the hell would they not tell anti-Trump Republicans to vote for Biden? Biden becomes president by getting the more votes than Trump.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:17
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:or perhaps this thread has created an echo chamber wherein people ignore the significant, actual campaigning biden is doing, I haven't made that claim, so don't project it onto me, please. quote:nobody outside of the hot take online political journalism newcycle gives two fucks about the project lincoln ads (or has heard about them). The mainstream media seems to think they're pretty cool. Given Biden's predilection for making nice with Republicans wherever he can, it's not difficult to imagine him giving access to these ghouls as well.  Xombie posted:What exactly would be beneficial to them speaking out against these people and telling them to vote for Trump instead? Why in the hell would they not tell anti-Trump Republicans to vote for Biden? That's a false dichotomy; the Dems don't have to choose between "telling them to gently caress off" and "giving them the keys."
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Jul 7, 2020 20:19
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Majorian posted:I haven't made that claim, so don't project it onto me, please. its an op/ed article on the nation. rick wilson's play isn't for a seat at the table during a biden administration, its to be welcomed back into the party in 2024 when he tries to run a pro-business/quiet racism candidate.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:21
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https://twitter.com/kpoulsen/status/1280553036432080896?s=20
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Jul 7, 2020 20:21
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:its an op/ed article on the nation. Yes, one that you clearly haven't read, because it cites several examples. You should rectify that.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:22
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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s not just their embrace of the Lincoln Project fools. They are now openly embracing Republicans that are anti-Trump between MSNBC being full of them and a bunch of former Republicans openly endorsing Biden because he is the McCain/Romney-esque business conservative that they want "Embrace" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this analysis, when really it's just "allowing them to exist and do what they want"
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Jul 7, 2020 20:22
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Majorian posted:That's a false dichotomy; the Dems don't have to choose between "telling them to gently caress off" and "giving them the keys." It's not a false dichotomy, because "giving them the keys" isn't a thing that's really happening. Making up some fantasy scenario in the future where it would happen isn't proof that it is. In reality, all they're doing is allowing them to operate unimpeded, because it objectively helps them.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:23
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this is not "giving them the keys"quote:Some liberals were quick to applaud the ad. It was retweeted and quoted by Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe, former Bill Clinton adviser Paul Begala, and Mother Jones magazine D.C. bureau chief David Corn. Clara Jeffery, editor in chief of Mother Jones, tweeted, “this one might be the most yowza ad yet.” She went on to argue that the Lincoln Project and other Never Trump endeavors were valuable because they can “assail Trump from the right, speak in ways that a left candidate/group cannot convincingly, and provide a permission structure for wavering folks who feel the tug of party loyalty.” do you have any evidence that never trumpers will, say, be part of biden's transition team, or in his cabinet?
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Jul 7, 2020 20:24
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Xombie posted:What exactly would be beneficial to them speaking out against these people and telling them to vote for Trump instead? Why in the hell would they not tell anti-Trump Republicans to vote for Biden? should Dubya be elevated by democrats if he endorses biden? e: https://twitter.com/ComicBook/status/1280551746578898944 just in case the rona wasn't gonna completely envelop florida!
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Jul 7, 2020 20:25
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If the Lincoln Project is so successful at insinuating themselves into the democratic establishment, it seems to me that a good tactic for the left would be to create attack ads for Joe Biden in a parallel movement.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:25
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A big flaming stink posted:should Dubya be elevated by democrats if he endorses biden? "Elevated" is still not a thing that's occurring.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:26
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:"Embrace" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this analysis, when really it's just "allowing them to exist and do what they want" This would be a lot more convincing if Biden wasn't cozying up to Republican ghouls and outright neocons already: quote:Among the GOP’s more ardent anti-Trump faction, several names came up in conversation when asked who could theoretically have a role in an outside political entity, which would not be allowed under campaign-finance laws to coordinate with the campaign directly. Those names include former Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ), Wisconsin-based political analyst Charlie Sykes, conservative media giant Bill Kristol, former Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele, longtime campaign operative Steve Schmidt, former Rep. David Jolly (R-FL), and columnist Mona Charen, among others. e: This also functions as a response to this post: Seven Hundred Bee posted:this is not "giving them the keys" e2: or here, ask the man himself: quote:The former vice president said he might announce some of his Cabinet level picks before the election, and that he would take the advice given to him by former President Obama to surround himself with people who “know more than you know.” Majorian fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 20:26
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Not that there isn't plenty to criticise in how our government and health experts have handled Covid-19 here and subsequently also things to learn from, but good god is it annoying to see our dead used as a batting instrument to score political points. The right for being gross loving liars and bringing it up constantly and shitlibs for replying by painting as dark a picture as possible. There's plenty of people over here in Sweden annoyed by the lack of direction shown by the government, but local and regional healthcare authorities have certainly not been resting on their laurels during this. Plenty of workers in those fields should get medals if this was a fair world and not a garbage fire of a hellworld. I just... It just makes me so irrationally angry, and at the same time I understand that there are things to learn from all this. But these loving vultures (media/pr people, not goons) ... those are people y'all are talking about, not mere loving numbers. Sorry, just needed to get it off my chest. I know it is a small, silly thing in the big picture, but it simply got to me just now. 
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Jul 7, 2020 20:26
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Xombie posted:"Elevated" is still not a thing that's occurring. should dubya be praised, or remarked upon favorably by democrats if he endorses biden?
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Jul 7, 2020 20:26
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A big flaming stink posted:should Dubya be elevated by democrats if he endorses biden? People die all the time at disneyworld so at least they're trained and sneaking bodies out.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:27
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A big flaming stink posted:should dubya be praised, or remarked upon favorably by democrats if he endorses biden? "Praised", and other synonyms for "elevated", still not occurring. The Democrats should not stop any Republican from voting for Biden. Because getting the most votes is the goal of an election.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:28
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Can we talk about something actually important, like the US pulling out of the WHO, instead of Round 10 million of Election Chat In The Incorrect Thread? The last time I heard any news about the WHO a month ago nobody in the administration had done anything despite Trump's threats. What happened?
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Jul 7, 2020 20:31
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Xombie posted:"Praised", and other synonyms for "elevated", still not occurring. so, you agree that if dubya endorses biden, Biden should not tout his endorsement, right?
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Jul 7, 2020 20:31
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Xombie posted:"Praised", and other synonyms for "elevated", still not occurring. I have bad news about how we select the president
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Jul 7, 2020 20:32
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A big flaming stink posted:should dubya be praised, or remarked upon favorably by democrats if he endorses biden? It's funny that you think republicans in the Trump era would vote against Trump because George W Bush told them to.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:32
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https://twitter.com/repjohnlewis/status/1280570353845231620?s=20
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Jul 7, 2020 20:33
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VideoGameVet posted:Maybe Musk... should step up and provide electric delivery trucks with a decent finanicing deal. We want them to catch fire less 
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Jul 7, 2020 20:33
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Sanguinia posted:Can we talk about something actually important, like the US pulling out of the WHO, instead of Round 10 million of Election Chat In The Incorrect Thread? I was under the impression that Trump needed the house(?) to vote in his favour to do anything internationally related like trade deals and poo poo. Or does the WHO not fall under that umbrella?
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Jul 7, 2020 20:34
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trumps gurgling about reopenings. https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1280583192660054016 https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1280582945657454595 https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1280581098934861824 https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1280581789816414209 sure is a pivot.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:34
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A big flaming stink posted:so, you agree that if dubya endorses biden, Biden should not tout his endorsement, right? It's telling that not only do you have to keep moving these goalposts, but that the goalposts are a fantasy to begin with
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Jul 7, 2020 20:36
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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s not just their embrace of the Lincoln Project fools. They are now openly embracing Republicans that are anti-Trump between MSNBC being full of them and a bunch of former Republicans openly endorsing Biden because he is the McCain/Romney-esque business conservative that they want It's smart strategy. Americans like the vague idea of bipartisanship and compromise. Biden's moderate style has already been tremendously successful in driving turnout and winning Obama-Trump pivot counties compared to the rigid ideologues he was competing with in the primary.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:36
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The poo poo Heard Around The World
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Jul 7, 2020 20:36
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Xombie posted:There's also evidence that Trump is mis-spending on his ads, putting it mostly in states that he'll slightly win anyway like Georgia and Texas, or trying to defend Ohio. While ignoring states that he barely won like Wisconsin and Michigan. Wheras Biden is doing the opposite, and going heavily towards great lake states that will get him the Electoral College win. the bolded isn't quite correct. the argument is that ad spending moves stuff around the margins, and if Georgia and Texas are close enough that ad spending moves them back and forth, then Trump has already lost re-election. there's no situation where he barely wins Texas and wins the election, even if his ad spending moved the needle to keep texas red. as a result, he should not bother: if trump is even in Texas, he's hosed everywhere. the only sensible strategy is to hope things turn around nationally, while continuing to deploy your spending to "tipping point" states. if trump recovers nationally enough to where he has a shot at winning, then he recovers in texas enough to win texas easily and his ad spending in texas was wasted. if he stays where he is, but barely wins texas, his ad spending in texas was wasted. if he stays where he is but loses texas, his ad spending there was wasted. since it's wasted in all cases, he shouldn't spend the money. evilweasel fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 20:38
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Xombie posted:"Praised", and other synonyms for "elevated", still not occurring pop quiz: was George W. Bush declared a member of the #resistance at John McCain's funeral
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Jul 7, 2020 20:42
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LinYutang posted:It's smart strategy. Americans like the vague idea of bipartisanship and compromise. Biden's moderate style has already been tremendously successful in driving turnout and winning Obama-Trump pivot counties compared to the rigid ideologues he was competing with in the primary. I'll respond to this in the Gen Election thread.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:43
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Franks Happy Place posted:The poo poo Heard Around The World Of course nowadays we get that multiple times per day on Twitter
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Jul 7, 2020 20:45
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evilweasel posted:there's no situation where he barely wins Texas and wins the election, even if his ad spending moved the needle to keep texas red. Hey now, it's 2020 - the west coast could fall into the ocean tomorrow and we'd all just be like "well at least it put out the wildfires!"
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Jul 7, 2020 20:48
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Trump's withdrawing on July 6th, 2021, so... we're probably not leaving the WHO. I gotta wonder who this is for. To entrench the narrative that this is all china's fault? To distract from the book cause it makes him look like a lunatic? Just another bit of red meat he's throwing the infowars base? Every motive I can ascribe seems like a bad idea.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:49
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Grondoth posted:Trump's withdrawing on July 6th, 2021, so... we're probably not leaving the WHO. Yes to all.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:51
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Xombie posted:It's telling that not only do you have to keep moving these goalposts, but that the goalposts are a fantasy to begin with i am legit trying to drill down into what you actually believe regarding how the democrats ought to react to hypothetical endorsements from objectively terrible people dubya is legit one of the worst people alive, in my opinion. Do you agree or disagree with the statement that if Dubya or a prominent member of his administration endorses biden, the biden campaign should not tout those endorsements?
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Jul 7, 2020 20:51
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Furnaceface posted:I was under the impression that Trump needed the house(?) to vote in his favour to do anything internationally related like trade deals and poo poo. Or does the WHO not fall under that umbrella? He needs the Senate to get us into a new treaty or trade deal. Many of our current deals give the president the ability to break trade deals and treaties without having to return to congress (often needing to give notice first), under the assumption that our president would never be a crazyass imbecile.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:54
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Didnt he say schools indoctrinate kids. Why would he want them back in schopl
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Jul 7, 2020 20:57
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Didnt he say schools indoctrinate kids. Why would he want them back in schopl Schools reopening will be a sign that the coronavirus has magically gone away and the economy is full speed ahead *nudges millions of infected corpses under bed with a broom*
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Jul 7, 2020 20:58
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