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Shoeless posted:The other thing about the horse arty is that it's the quickest and easiest to redeploy in light of a changing battlefield. The initial placement I suggested is very central, and so if it turns out that the enemy is pushing on the right, we can more easily redeploy them to the alternate hill to support there. But if the enemy ends up pushing the left, and we initially deploy them to the right, it'll take longer to redeploy them. That's why the plan I laid out has so much focus on the center with our scouts flanking wide, it gives us the best ability to react to where we find the enemy host. That makes sense, my only concern then would be hard charging enemy cav down the center while all ours is on the flanks. How much faster does horse artillery move than infantry?
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Jul 7, 2020 01:29
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Generation Internet posted:That makes sense, my only concern then would be hard charging enemy cav down the center while all ours is on the flanks. Well Spamo's going to have some of his scouts moving up ahead of the center push and so should spot any cavalry charge coming so that we can simply unlimber the horse arty en route and give them a war high velocity greeting. And with Spamo taking full control of the scouting, that leaves the very heavy cavalry to move with our main center force, so in addition to our complete infantry group there will also be heavy cav to chase down any enemy that attempts to engage and then flees. And I believe Grey mentioned earlier that horse artillery moves 18" compared to 12", though it can of course simply limit itself to 12" increments to not outpace the infantry.
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Jul 7, 2020 01:35
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Spitballing here while looking at the map... Are we on the offensive or defensive of this battle? Because if we can favor defense, I think securing the western edge and using the river as a natural barrier would be immensely beneficial. Securing the city with the river crossing and the town just ahead of the other crossing would be a boon and would allow us to hold our ground and grind them against our line infantry while allowing our skirmisher's solid positions to start picking them off from a distance.
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Jul 7, 2020 07:00
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Sorry! Scale map is here. Bottom left corner. I said this was a big map.
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Jul 7, 2020 08:51
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Well. That completely changes where we want our heavy arty. Have that position where I had put the horse arty, and instead deploy horse arty to the hill north-west of the center town?
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Jul 7, 2020 10:17
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I suddenly feel a bit silly thinking I could bombard those hills on the opposite corner of the map.
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Jul 7, 2020 10:26
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Holding the river crossings with arty on the high ground behind and between looks very good on the defensive
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Jul 7, 2020 12:34
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Grey Hunter posted:Sorry! Scale map is here. Grey, can I suggest we halve or even quarter the map scale? Our infantry's max one-turn (three move) movement speed is 54", assuming everyone passes their command rolls. It's gonna be a long time before we start to see any action and I'm worried goon interest will burn out before we get much of a fight.
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Jul 7, 2020 13:45
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Bacarruda posted:Grey, can I suggest we halve or even quarter the map scale? Our infantry's max one-turn (three move) movement speed is 54", assuming everyone passes their command rolls. NOPE! I plan on running multi turn updates. maybe even a whole day in one go. The whole point of this is to have a big map you guys can get lost in.
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Jul 7, 2020 13:53
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What is the movement rate of my (our) cavalry then? Also, what does 1 (or 12") inches map to in terms of miles/kilometers? Anyway, looking at the map we have the opportunity to control the river, which if it's a pain in the butt to cross might make for a good natural bulwark. On the other hand, we can get across it really quick and use it as a left flank guard as I doubt a flanking force will want to cross back and forth willy nilly. But, I'll focus on scouting. Since this map is huge, I'm going to re-evaluate once I get distance clarifications. Here's my initial thoughts. River crossings are key, so I'm going to send Alpha scouts up the left side to the crossroads south of the city/field/field cluster in the SW (I'll mark up the map when I get the chance). It's got a road, river, city, and fields and it's got so much going on I want to get eyes on it. From there I'll split into 3 tiny units, A1, A2, A3 and send them out to the river fork, nearby crossroads, and central N/S road respectively. Beta scouts are going up the right hand side pushing hard for the easternmost settlement. From there for out into B1, B2, B3 and push north via the western field, road, and skirting east of the eastern field. Not as much interesting going on over there so really just trying to see as far as possible and make sure nobody's trying to sneak down the edges. Things I wonder about, is if I should break into tiny units sooner to cover more ground or respond to anomalies. It may also help protect the unit integrity too since I can afford to suffer damage to a tiny unit in discovery because I have the other two that are still fully functional, but if I run into trouble early with the large unit it'd be a hassle to reorganize if it got hit and the whole shebang is probably useless until then.
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Jul 7, 2020 14:41
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We should send one of the scout cavalry squadrons and one full infantry brigade to the west side of the river to secure the crossing and that flank. Two of the infantry brigades, the other light cavalry squadron, and the heavy cavalry brigade should follow the river on the east side. In my mind we can have my brigade make up the "center" and the remaining infantry brigade make up the right flank. The heavy cavalry brigade should cover our right flank and work in concert with the right-infantry brigade to erode them on the right flank. We should focus the artillery in the center such that it can cover as much of the battlefield as it can. I'd rather have at least one battery covering my brigade and one battery covering the right flank so we can wheel them up and trap them against the river/river crossing where we will have that light cav squadron and infantry brigade as I said above.
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Jul 8, 2020 18:01
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Alright, I see some people coming up with more ideas for our strategy going in. Would those who do please do a 9000 hours in MSPaint draw-up of your plan to make it easier to visualize what you're thinking? And for those considering how we deploy, our force is configured for defense. So we can essentially choose where we want to go (within roughly our half of the map before it becomes likely we'll encounter the enemy) and set up there. People talking about setting up by the river crossing, I think you've got a good idea brewing.
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Jul 8, 2020 19:11
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Keep in mind that movement depends on orders rolls. We could have an issue where brigades are out of sync because of the rolls, either rolling too good or rolling too bad. We should make sure we deploy in March Column such that we always get free moves and at least try to move in sync.
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Jul 8, 2020 19:23
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I do good drawing as you can see.
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Jul 8, 2020 19:37
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BadgerRat posted:I do good drawing as you can see. I like this plan except the poo poo on the right side should start on the right side of the river and move along the road
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Jul 8, 2020 19:53
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Hmm, that is good at draw, yes. I like it mostly, though I think the arty are too far back to be in range of where the fighting will be. Turns out the map's REALLY big. I think we'd end up needing it pressed right against the river if we stationed it in that area to be able to fire across and support the pbi in the towns.
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Jul 8, 2020 19:54
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I do not think we should enter the towns.
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Jul 8, 2020 20:08
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Phi230 posted:I like this plan except the poo poo on the right side should start on the right side of the river and move along the road My thought was that then we risk defeat in detail considering how far away that road on the right of the river is.
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Jul 8, 2020 20:15
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Phi230 posted:I do not think we should enter the towns. Why not?
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Jul 8, 2020 20:17
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BadgerRat posted:My thought was that then we risk defeat in detail considering how far away that road on the right of the river is. Its not that far, its only 12'' which is one movement for infantry. Remember these are full brigades we are working with. A single battalion has a frontage of about 7-10 inches. Meaning my brigade alone laid out in a line is about 30-40 inches wide. The road would also allow us to move extremely quickly to deploy. Shoeless posted:Why not? Units in buildings are treated like they are in square formation. Meaning they are severely limited in shooting. They are only slightly harder to hit/kill but at the same time you are vulnerable to having the building set on fire or shelled by artillery. Moving our units into the town would make them harder to dislodge but the enemy would just flank us and shell us until we were dead. We have to stay mobile to keep a coherent line. Phi230 fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jul 8, 2020 |
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Jul 8, 2020 21:09
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I'm not against occupying the town but realize it'll essentially have to be a rock with cavalry support. My brigade would have to be between the river crossing and the town and hold the center with artillery support. My brigade will be stretched into a single line with no reserves. Its not a bad defensive strategy, but be aware of the risks you're exposing the infantry brigades to by having them occupy a town and have the strategic risk of being flanked in your mind as well, and also the risks of my brigade being stretched thin with no reserves. We'd need strong flank support but also strong support for the center.
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Jul 8, 2020 21:16
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Phi230 posted:I'm not against occupying the town but realize it'll essentially have to be a rock with cavalry support. Hmm, unfortunate that towns don't provide the survivability I hoped they would. Curse you game mechanics! In that case, I think garrisoning the river crossing town is still viable, since we can have our artillery firing in support from across the river. And not every brigade need occupy the town, indeed I think it would be prudent to deploy some to the woods north of the town to deal with any potential enemy flank from that direction. The town would act essentially as a strongpoint for the center of our line, but we'd have infantry on either side of it, and our cavalry prepared to punish enemy forces who focus on it without protecting their own flanks.
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Jul 8, 2020 21:21
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Shoeless posted:Hmm, unfortunate that towns don't provide the survivability I hoped they would. Curse you game mechanics! In that case, I think garrisoning the river crossing town is still viable, since we can have our artillery firing in support from across the river. And not every brigade need occupy the town, indeed I think it would be prudent to deploy some to the woods north of the town to deal with any potential enemy flank from that direction. The town would act essentially as a strongpoint for the center of our line, but we'd have infantry on either side of it, and our cavalry prepared to punish enemy forces who focus on it without protecting their own flanks. I would suggest using skirmishers in woods. We should all advance with skirmishers ahead of our brigades anyway, but when the battle lines are set we should pivot them to the woods. Skirmishers benefit greatly from woods.
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Jul 8, 2020 21:24
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After some thinking I'm feeling if we're going defensive then occupying buildings isn't a bad idea. It could lure the enemy into trying an attack which would lock them down and make them vulnerable to cavalry and artillery but our infantry wouldn't be doing the heavy lifting when it comes to actually inflicting losses.
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Jul 8, 2020 21:44
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Phi230 posted:Its not that far, its only 12'' which is one movement for infantry. Remember these are full brigades we are working with. A single battalion has a frontage of about 7-10 inches. Meaning my brigade alone laid out in a line is about 30-40 inches wide. Are you sure? My reading of the scale marker says the 2 roads I'm using are a couple of hundred inches apart, let alone the road on the other side of the river?
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Jul 8, 2020 22:02
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Phi230 posted:I would suggest using skirmishers in woods. We should all advance with skirmishers ahead of our brigades anyway, but when the battle lines are set we should pivot them to the woods. Skirmishers benefit greatly from woods. Phi230 posted:After some thinking I'm feeling if we're going defensive then occupying buildings isn't a bad idea. It could lure the enemy into trying an attack which would lock them down and make them vulnerable to cavalry and artillery but our infantry wouldn't be doing the heavy lifting when it comes to actually inflicting losses. I'm not a rules guru, so wanted to check, do Skirmishers benefit from being in a town? I figured between their range and the fact they're not really firing in a line they might be more suited for garrison duty in the towns, whittling the enemy away from a distance while our line forms up just infront of the town to also pour fire on.
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Jul 9, 2020 02:59
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Let's not over think this here, the map is huge and we're going to have a ton of time to maneuver. Keep things tight, and send out scouts. Once we have a sense of where things are, we can reposition. To that end, the only thing I'd add is that unless we want to bunker behind the river, we should start the forces on the northeast side of the river because I doubt we want to ford artillery/infantry across the river unless necessary. It would suuuck to be stuck on the wrong side.
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Jul 9, 2020 04:28
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 My plan is a bit more aggressive than BadgerRat's, but I feel it should be achievable. The battle line is centerd around the level two hill where my heavy battery will be placed. The horse battery, being more mobile can be placed wherever it can be most helpful. Phi's voltigeurs and Guards will protect the battery, while the rest of the brigade holds the center. The smaller hill behind Phi's lines is not vital, but is a great place for the horse artillery, so if it can be held, great, but the line can fall back if needed. Jimmy's brigade takes the left flank, the chasseurs hiding in the woods. BadgerRat then takes the Right. Again, falling back if needed. The Hill by the city could make a good fallback artillery position if need, but hopefully won't be necessary. I placed the cavalry based on the terrain they should be best in, and where I feel enemy cavalry would most likely be present. The light cavalry has a good position to sneak up behind the enemy assuming they neglect the clearing between the woods and river, and serve to guard the flank, and prevent a river crossing otherwise. I also included the routs everyone should take to avoid congestion. Unfortunately, this has us marching immediately into the dead center of the map, so may rely on the red team sitting back to scout for everyone to get to their positions. I also don't really know quite how this plan will interact with game mechanics. I may also be overestimating artillery ranges. Comments and critiques are welcome.
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Jul 9, 2020 12:54
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I agree with the idea of moving to take good positions quickly. I would simply say to keep my light cav way out in front to trip any traps long before the vulnerable damage dealers show up. It's their job, professional trap springers.
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Jul 9, 2020 15:01
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OK well we've I think got 2 general strats here, defend at the river crossing and defend near the center town. Let's get a vote going and decide on which, and then people can deploy themselves. I don't want us to hold up the game by taking a week to decide our deployment. So vote A for river strat and B for center town strat. I have no forces and to prevent a tie will not vote.
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Jul 9, 2020 18:33
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El Spamo posted:I agree with the idea of moving to take good positions quickly. Yeah. Once the battle is going though, having cavalry there should be useful, otherwise there's only a single battalion of chasseurs to respond to any flanking attempt. I'm voting B obviously. Hippocrass fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jul 9, 2020 |
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Jul 9, 2020 21:53
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Both plans look decent, but I tend to think more defensively so I'm going with A and focusing more on defending strong points closer to the rivers. The more we can concentrate our forces the stronger our fighting positions can be.
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Jul 9, 2020 23:48
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I'll vote B however, remember that my heavy cavalry should be used to assist our infantry I don't mind taking the flank but if I run into a proper enemy firing line there won't be much I can do.
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Jul 10, 2020 00:47
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I'm torn. I think we should do A though.
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Jul 10, 2020 01:08
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B, because early on we should seize easy territory and stake out a somewhat more aggressive position
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Jul 10, 2020 03:29
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Currently 5/7 votes in, I'll keep this running for the next let's say 16 hours (because time zones) unless the other two votes get in before then. After that, we'll finalize where we want to deploy and I assume Grey will ask for our first turn's worth of orders. Current voting is 3 for B and 2 for A.
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Jul 10, 2020 03:56
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So, I am going to have to halt this for a week (kinda why I've not been pushing it TBH) - The wife's gran has passed, and we need to go clear her house out. Sorry everyone, but you will have plenty of time to plan your winning stratergy! Orders due by 5am BST saturday the 18th
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Jul 10, 2020 08:53
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Sorry I missed the vote post, I agree with B. Considering how important positioning will be on this map I like us taking the strong centre position.
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Jul 10, 2020 11:34
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Grey Hunter posted:So, I am going to have to halt this for a week (kinda why I've not been pushing it TBH) - The wife's gran has passed, and we need to go clear her house out. I hope things go as smoothly as possible for you and your family.
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Jul 10, 2020 15:25
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Sorry to hear that GH, hope you and yours are keeping well. I'm happy with whatever strategy we choose, and without an objective more clearly defined than beating the enemy force I'd vote A
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Jul 10, 2020 20:13
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