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Just had a possibly idiotic idea: A decision to turn all planets of the same type in a given area into a single "planet" for the purposes of interface, all planetary pops, jobs, buildings, and districts appearing on one screen, with placement of buildings/districts basically being at random when it comes to what "actual" planet has them. You could then control "multiple" planets at once. (Habitats count as a planet type for this purpose.)
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 15:13 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 16:16 |
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Even templates would be nice. Like have it auto-build a Robohut then a Clinic then (x) [where x is the building for what the world does] until Population n is reached then do () then (). But the AI can't even manage to figure out that a size 15 world with 15 Agriculture district slots and no Motes/Crystals/Gasses should *NOT* get auto-assigned a "Refinery World" type. Like, I know I've beat on this drum before and it's probably at least partly a mod interaction but the AI doesn't ever get the colony type right accidentally. The amount of micro (and the complete inability to automate any of it with any confidence it won't potato it) is literally a hard-cap on how thicc you can build (and I like to build thicc).
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 15:19 |
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Can tomb habitable pops also settle any world there is without penalties? I created a ai devouring swarm that became really loving big way fast. Like had 200 pops and 20 worlds after 30 years.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 15:38 |
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GunnerJ posted:Just had a possibly idiotic idea: A decision to turn all planets of the same type in a given area into a single "planet" for the purposes of interface, all planetary pops, jobs, buildings, and districts appearing on one screen, with placement of buildings/districts basically being at random when it comes to what "actual" planet has them. You could then control "multiple" planets at once. (Habitats count as a planet type for this purpose.) Like some sort of "sector" or something? And then you could assign the "sector" a manager, maybe even call it a "governor"! Seriously though, I legitimately do not understand what value sectors add (to the player) given the complete incompetence of the AI.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 15:52 |
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Schadenboner posted:
Sectors were my first thought but didn't mention it because they're automated and what I'm talking about is collapsing manual control of dozens of worlds into something more manageable because I've given up on automation being worthwhile in this game... but a sector rework could do something like (and better than) what I mean.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 15:57 |
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GunnerJ posted:Sectors were my first thought but didn't mention it because they're automated and what I'm talking about is collapsing manual control of dozens of worlds into something more manageable because I've given up on automation being worthwhile in this game... but a sector rework could do something like (and better than) what I mean. Yeah, this is some of what I was driving at. There's a promising mod called Dyson Swarm, but its quality isn't quite up to snuff yet. Another overhaul of the economy to make it simpler and something that the AI could understand would be the best thing, and then we could drop down habitats in systems, build ringworlds, and do all of the other really cool space colonization stuff that has to do with playing wide or tall (hell, even mining stations could get in on the action of changing how a sector/planet/etc. works) without imposing absurd amounts of micromanagement headaches. It's one thing you start to notice with mods that make cool planet types with unique sectors - you want a way to funnel a few pops from many settlements to these neat new planets that you've colonized or built, but you want to do so in a way that isn't incredibly dull and tedious. The migration mechanic almost works for this, but you don't have the option of cutting off pop growth and putting 100% of the new growth into emigration from the planet without major penalties (for egalitarians, this could be done with subsidies, for authoritarians, could be done by lottery, etc. - we're talking about the churn of literally billions of people, and some percentage of those people are going to be happy to leave for a new life elsewhere).
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 16:36 |
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I want to make an ecumenopolis but for rollercoasters. A entire planet, but it's a Six Flags.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 17:05 |
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And Tyler Too! posted:I want to make an ecumenopolis but for rollercoasters. A entire planet, but it's a Six Flags. I like to imagine that Entertainment districts on habitats are enormous rollercoasters snaking through the ship that take advantage of zero-, micro-, and multiple-g technologies to deliver a vomitously good time for all.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 17:08 |
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And Tyler Too! posted:I want to make an ecumenopolis but for rollercoasters. A entire planet, but it's a Six Flags. It would be cool if you could combine those super special planet designations more so you could make an ecu into a resort world and do this. (It looks like you can make an ecu a penal colony though?) Or make a resort world/penal colony combo and do Deadman Wonderland...
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 17:23 |
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I agree with everyone the micro is ridiculous once you get a lot of planets. I feel like I’m constantly pausing the game once per month just to build additional buildings and districts to level up the planet. At this stage I have so many resources I could pre build the planets if they didn’t lock the slots behind a population limit. It’s really annoying. I’m finding that I spend hours just micromanaging all my planets and not really doing a diplomacy or anything else. After a while it also becomes difficult to track what I wanted to do with each planet or in what direction I want to build out that planet. Anyway: I have a holy guardians FE next door to me and they have become very angry with me for doing a full synth ascension. I partially built a mega shipyard with the intent to construct a massive fleet to challenge them but I can’t seem to even touch their power levels. For some reason my game refuses to give me titans or collosi as a research option. So somehow I need a way to configure my battleships to fight these fuckers before they invade. Right now I have a balanced 50/50 approach to shields and armor. I have hyper shields and durasteel armor. I’m building a lot of battleships with neutron launchers and arc emitters. I plan to screen them with destroyers equipped with Guardian PDs to try and shoot down the mega torpedos they have. Finally I’ll build swarms of corvettes with neutron launchers. The only thing I need to figure out now is how to meet that 240k fleet strength. Thus far my crash fleet building project had me at 40k and I’m approaching the cap soon. I can probably sacrifice the space neighbouring the FE as it was a fanatic exterminator empire I annexed and I have two citadels on the way to Sol on the main hyper lane leading to my capital. The only thing slowing me down is the lack of total pops I have to fill my Ecu’s foundry slots and my severely lacking forgeworld production capacity in general. I have no idea what I’m in for so I? On a side note. Machine ascension feels strange because I’m a fanatic egalitarian xenophile and yet from a gameplay perspective it makes perfect sense to set all your migrant species to assimilation rights. Something tells me I’ve crossed a line somewhere. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jul 11, 2020 |
# ? Jul 11, 2020 17:34 |
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Last game I did, I ended up terraforming a world into a Gaia and using it as a penal colony. Guilli's mods had made it have Titanic Snakes and Telepathic Life
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 17:37 |
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winterwerefox posted:Last game I did, I ended up terraforming a world into a Gaia and using it as a penal colony. Guilli's mods had made it have Titanic Snakes and Telepathic Life The planet *is* the warden!
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 17:43 |
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I actually feel like the micro is a lot worse than it has been with the old system. I won't necessarily say it's wrong - as long as you don't mind not playing optimally it's easy to keep up with the AI even without getting too much into it. And it's nice at the beginning. Though even from a perspective of "micro is fun actually" the old system was more comfortable to optimise due to fewer clicks, the pop management is pretty annoying to do through the planet UI.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 17:49 |
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Kraftwerk posted:On a side note. Machine ascension feels strange because I’m a fanatic egalitarian xenophile and yet from a gameplay perspective it makes perfect sense to set all your migrant species to assimilation rights. Something tells me I’ve crossed a line somewhere. Since machine ascension retains free will, I look at it as people voluntarily entering your empire because they want to become badass immortal machines. It's a hell of a lot harder to defend when your "voluntary immigrants" are set to slavery and/or livestock.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 18:16 |
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GunnerJ posted:It would be cool if you could combine those super special planet designations more so you could make an ecu into a resort world and do this. (It looks like you can make an ecu a penal colony though?)
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 18:25 |
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I've had some interesting glitches in my last game, where absorbing other empires with my default species rights set to assimilate saw me with multiple subspecies of robots with cybernetics, as well as 500 pops of determined exterminator assimilated somehow. I set them to close to my default bot in a retrofit of them, llike all the other robots i get. winterwerefox fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jul 11, 2020 |
# ? Jul 11, 2020 18:29 |
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I think that fundamentally the new system prioritizes constant engagement with pop management, but doesn't make that engagement fun or even particularly rewarding. Planets get less efficient as they get larger, and take longer to oversee, meaning players spend more and more time doing fruitless and unpleasant tasks. The tile system had its issues but what has replaced it is too cumbersome to enjoy, particularly as it has grown in importance.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 18:35 |
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How do planets take longer to oversee, the involvement is entirely linear. Pop grows -> is there no job open? Build a building/district. This doesn't change if it's the second or the 100th pop.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 18:57 |
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DatonKallandor posted:How do planets take longer to oversee, the involvement is entirely linear. Pop grows -> is there no job open? Build a building/district. This doesn't change if it's the second or the 100th pop. I think some people try to optimize by having dedicated stratified societies where workers, specialists and rulers have their own unique traits to maximize their bonuses. So if you have freedom of movement and migration you’re gonna have to gene mod/assimilate/robo mod the new pops to fit whatever role you need on that planet. For most people a generic bonus or a lack of weaknesses is all they do so there’s less work to do.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 19:46 |
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Also it's just the general escalation from planet count. Managing 10 planets is trivial, managing 30 while you're at war is quite a bit harder. Of course there's not much that really goes wrong if you fail to manage your planets well, but like, if you're not microing your planets why even play Stellaris?
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 20:03 |
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Schadenboner posted:But the AI can't even manage to figure out that a size 15 world with 15 Agriculture district slots and no Motes/Crystals/Gasses should *NOT* get auto-assigned a "Refinery World" type. Assuming an utterly blank planet, it will only be considered for being a mining planet if it meets one or more of these conditions: 1) Has one of the +mining modifiers (weight 5) 2) Has more than 5 free mining districts AND less than 5 free farming districts AND less than 5 free energy districts* (weight 1) 3) Is the same as 2 but with more 10 mining districts (weight 3) If it doesn't meet any of these then it has weighting 0. So a planet with 15 mining districts and 5 farming districts? gently caress that noise you can't be a mining planet. You're a weight 1 rural planet, deal with it. "But Splicer" you say, "I was complaining about agricultural districts! Why are you talking about mineral districts?" Because weighting for Agricultural and Energy planet designations are all messed up and I didn't feel like going into it https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...es-txt.1392722/ "OK" you say, "But I was complaining about refineries, not rural districts! Why am I getting refineries?" Ah, now that's where it gets fun https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ockers.1405114/ So let's say you have your 15 agriculture planet with 5 agriculture tile blockers. The game working as intended would only consider that 10 free agricultural districts. The game as it is actually functioning only considers that 5 free agricultural districts. Which is below the threshold for even being considered for an agricultural planet. You need two districts >= 5** to be considered for a Rural district, so if this bug reduces everything to below this threshold then Rural is also off the table**. One of the ways a refinery world will pop up as a weight 1 option is if your planet has less than or equal to 5 free of each of mining districts, farming districts, and energy districts*, and you're running in the negatives for at least one rare resource, which of course you are. So if the above bug has reduced the AI's impression of your available districts down to 5 or below, now refineries are an option. "Huh, well, that makes sense..." ominous chuckling "...ok, weird. Hey, what's with all those asterisks?" * there's an additional check to see how big your planet is, but they hosed it all up so it always evaluates to true https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...o-true.1405142/ ** there's a case where a really low district planet can evaluate to 1 weight rural, but it requires the planet itself to be quite small, except they hosed up that last check so it always evaluates to true https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/2-7-2-60bf-copy-paste-error-for-rural-districts.1405126/ twice https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/2-7-2-60bf-copy-paste-error-for-gestalt-rural-districts.1405141/ "Doesn't that last bit negate half of what you just said? And why are all but the first bug report dated today?" Well I went to go fact check some things halfway through this post and fell down a rabbit hole of circular self-negating bugs and who the gently caress knows edge cases and I still don't know what happens when you have two options with a weight of 1 but it seems that refinery wins over rural so maybe it's alphabetical or maybe it's based on the order in the file or maybe there's another bug loving things up even further and I'm so tired. "Well thanks for the effort Splicer but now I have absolutely no loving idea what's going on." but I promise you neither do the devs so high five go team gently caress this game I'm out Splicer fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 11, 2020 |
# ? Jul 11, 2020 21:27 |
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BTW everything I've listed here bar the num_free_districts bug is contained within a single file that someone apparently wrote while asleep and/or on drugs and literally no-one but me has apparently looked at since.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 21:35 |
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 22:23 |
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Oh wow. That explains so much. I've been getting pretty good behavior with automation from mods that change how automation works, but I manually set my planet designations to whatever I think is best. If the AI is mostly making refinery worlds, then yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 22:54 |
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Dirk the Average posted:I've been getting pretty good behavior with automation from mods that change how automation works Names. Now. Please.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 22:56 |
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Schadenboner posted:Names. Now. Please. Improved Planet and Sector Automation. Generally if I designate a planet as a generator world, mining world, etc., it does a good job of setting it up. I do every so often go through and swap out the occasional building here and there (and this is usually for civic/ethic specific buildings like noble estates), but by and large it seems to do a pretty good job.
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# ? Jul 11, 2020 23:03 |
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Dirk the Average posted:Oh wow. That explains so much. I've been getting pretty good behavior with automation from mods that change how automation works, but I manually set my planet designations to whatever I think is best. If the AI is mostly making refinery worlds, then yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. code:
Hive/Nexus - let's leave this out for now and stick with regular empires. So unless you've already both built at least one of the relevant district AND not fallen afoul of any of the weird bugs I listed, the game cannot automatically decide your planet is a mining or whatever, just a rural, refinery, or research planet, with research having slightly stricter requirements. Those are the only realistic options. If your colony has <5 free slots in each district (taking into account the blocker bug) then they have equal weighting toward rural or refinery, and if they have <=3 you can throw research in there. I have no idea how it decides the tie, but since colony types are meant to be sticky, and refineries are one of the stickiest: code:
it's asterisk time again *building a mining district reduces your number of free mining districts. You get a +5 weight bonus for having >=4 mining districts built, so if you have already built 4 mining districts you can ignore the other mining district weighting possibilities. But if you only build 1, 2, or 3 before exiting the <5 pop stage you don't get the "built a bunch of mining stations" bonus weighting, and you've possibly lost the "has a bunch of free mining districts" weighting. loving troll game. Splicer fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jul 12, 2020 |
# ? Jul 12, 2020 01:33 |
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Kraftwerk posted:I think some people try to optimize by having dedicated stratified societies where workers, specialists and rulers have their own unique traits to maximize their bonuses. So if you have freedom of movement and migration you’re gonna have to gene mod/assimilate/robo mod the new pops to fit whatever role you need on that planet. It's this, or really anytime when you're messing about with job priorities. The whole thing works fairly well and is decently low-effort when you don't ever touch it, but if you do then the old map menu was a lot quicker to work with. Plus it was like a minigame of sorts if you were microing your pops. Then again the old system did get fairly tedious once you got over 50 planets or so. And the AI was garbage at dealing with it.
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# ? Jul 12, 2020 02:39 |
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Kraftwerk posted:Any tips on how to micromanage genetics for your species? Genetic is pretty good for hive minds and slavers imo. Fertile, enduring are S tier poo poo, if youre going for a lot of habitats going for pop housing usage and fertile is great for the 20% housing reduction, if you get speed demon you can grab the social pheromones for 30% which is incedible. Getting a psionic pop isnt too hard by just purchasing a racket pop and gene modding it to be your leader species, great with 80 year lifespans+enduring. Most of the benefit of psionic is the leadership buffs so thats amazing. The "selecting which planets are allowed to breed" option is also a good tool for getting the right ratios of pops when you need nerve stapled slaves or leaders. By mid to end game you sorta make a lot of leaders when the ecumenopolis' online. Making a species dedicated to being a soldier is also decent when you can increase their stats as a garrison, and increase their unity output (citizen service) Its micro intensive but its also very strong as nerve stapling and the 30% early game population growth is very strong when you can turn all those saved consumer goods into research Grammar-Bolshevik fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jul 12, 2020 |
# ? Jul 12, 2020 17:35 |
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Splicer posted:Weight 1 is actually the lowest possible non-zero weight. Like, if you had a 10 mineral district world with 0 energy and 0 farms and a +minerals planet modifier and no mineral blockers that would be 1 + 3 + 5 = 8 weight toward aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I just noticed something This explains so much, thank you. I kept wondering why so many of my new planets turn into generator worlds. (It's because I tend to roleplay colonizing new planets: Obviously, the colonists first need to build their first cities to have a roof above their heads, and they of course need enough power plants to keep everything running, so the very first thing I build on new planets is 1 city district, followed by 1 generator district. Evidently, this makes the game think the planet with +20% bonus to minerals should be a generator planet.)
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# ? Jul 12, 2020 18:11 |
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having played through a game with it, i feel confirmed in my knee-jerk reaction that habitats for everyone was a real bad choice just habitats freaking everywhere invading an important AI system takes like 5 minutes of just repeatedly toggling an army into aggressive these habitats dont even have defenders!!!! just surrender shitheads! whats even the point of the habitable world % settings nemore? terrain has no value mid-late.
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# ? Jul 12, 2020 18:40 |
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The problem is less habitats and more that we can't destroy them without a Colossus. Instead of going "programming is too hard", the devs should have maybe foreseen this and programmed habitats in a way that made them explodable. No wonder they clutter everything up if you need a very special end-game tech to then very slowly clean them up again!
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# ? Jul 12, 2020 18:48 |
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Habitats are cool for the setting but are absolutely trash gameplay wise. IMO make them be required to be over habitable planets and they function as an extension of the planet and unlock more districts and special buildings. Still adds the flavor, still keeps them useful, makes them not a giant clutter.
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# ? Jul 12, 2020 18:50 |
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Shugojin posted:Habitats are cool for the setting but are absolutely trash gameplay wise. This idea makes too much sense, which means we'll never see it.
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# ? Jul 12, 2020 19:08 |
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And Tyler Too! posted:This idea makes too much sense, which means we'll never see it. Habitats would be good if planet automation worked.
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# ? Jul 12, 2020 21:22 |
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And Tyler Too! posted:This idea makes too much sense, which means we'll never see it. It makes sense if you're only considering how to simplify one aspect of gameplay, but not in any other respect.
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# ? Jul 12, 2020 21:31 |
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:invading an important AI system takes like 5 minutes of just repeatedly toggling an army into aggressive You can queue invasion orders now.
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# ? Jul 12, 2020 22:13 |
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QuarkJets posted:It makes sense if you're only considering how to simplify one aspect of gameplay, but not in any other respect. There are certainly a lot of things it doesn't address, but it definitely fixes the "dozens of 'planets' in every AI system in mid-to-late game, none of them with very many pops" issue which definitely causes me massive burnout in every game that gets that far
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# ? Jul 13, 2020 01:14 |
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PittTheElder posted:You can queue invasion orders now. Is that working again? It broke in 2.7.0.
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# ? Jul 13, 2020 07:42 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 16:16 |
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It's again a problem where Stellaris doesn't scale properly. Yeah your first war where it's two 20-system empires with three planets total it makes sense that taking a planet system takes time and effort. Later on when it's 200 vs 200 and half of them are saturated with artificial planets, not so much
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# ? Jul 13, 2020 08:54 |