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I totally understand how suffocating the turn limits in 2 feel. But I love the pressure and think it is a universally good change. It never really felt random or arbitrary in what your options were in any given turn. It changes the dynamic of the whole system in a great way.
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Jun 29, 2020 22:07
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Sylphosaurus posted:No thanks, the death of the XCOM overwatch creep was the best thing to happen to the series. yeah agreed. overwatch creep wasn't BAD per se, tbh it was an evolution of standard scout/sniper tactics from the OG. it actually felt pretty good and i'm not gonna hate on it too hard. it's just that being aggressive and taking risks and planning for contingencies is WAY MORE FUN. Alchenar posted:Oh and gently caress infinite reinforcements. Even when its not hard its just extremely tedious to deal with.
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Jun 29, 2020 22:18
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Sylphosaurus posted:No thanks, the death of the XCOM overwatch creep was the best thing to happen to the series. Hard agree with this. Plus they have an option you can use in X-COM 2 to double the turn timers, which is twice as long as you actually need, so an option like this I think is sufficient. People who don't like timers driving the action never saw beaglerush teaching an entire playerbase to advance 1 tile and overwatch 80 turns in a row while running around a UFO. It worked in the original (90s) X-COM because the Aliens had insane vision and aim and could pick you off from across the map and if it was night forget it so you HAD to move in. edit: this was bad enough that they introduced soft mission timers in the form of Meld in the Enemy Within expansion in an attempt to keep things moving. Because there was no concealment every time you wiped out one squad you could go right back to creeping 1 tile forward again.
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Jun 29, 2020 22:29
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scout/sniper tactics in the OG were a little bit different because in the OG, everyone implicitly had squadsight. you didn't need to actually 'see' an enemy to take a shot at it, you only needed a line of fire. so the de-facto strategy was to take 10 of your best soldiers and officers and 4 completely raw recruits. you send the dumbass rookie forward to establish LOS, and then you move the badasses 1/3rd as far if at all to establish LOF. you shower the enemies with bullets and if they survive they're taking shots at the dumbass in front, not anyone you actually care about. it's a little more brutal than the overwatch creep just because people will definitely die as part of its execution, but in practice it's not much different because you've already written the rookie off and he's just the cost of doing business. he's not a risk. you have 15 more of him back at base. he's actually less of a tactical cost than a scouting sensor in EU/EW because the rookie moves forward under his own power and doesn't need TUs from an actually useful soldier to do the job at hand. in 2 and CS there's frequently times where you must put something you actually care about on the line to accomplish your goal. the 'skill' that comes with the game is contingency planning and calculations surrounding properly weighting these risks and mitigating them as best you can, since they can no longer be eliminated in practice.
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Jun 29, 2020 22:38
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Der Kyhe posted:Less turn limited missions would be one thing I'd like to see. Nah, if it was blood bowl your soldiers would have a chance to trip and die every time they yellow moved. ... Actually that sounds hilarious. Time to take up modding.
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Jun 30, 2020 04:02
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FoolyCharged posted:Nah, if it was blood bowl your soldiers would have a chance to trip and die every time they yellow moved. I was actually going to say I like the idea, of, mh, -minimum- move being a game mechanic? Like, hm, maybe the speed you're moving should play into getting shot/accuracy? If you move 1 square, its a lot easier to eat reactiofiren than if you're running flat out. One thing I think the new Gears (tactics?) game did nicely was the 'bonus square butt scoot' that would get you into cover despite being a square or two short, which sort of took away the 'unfair/why bother' aspect of advancing. Also, overwatch being a cone-shaped zone that you had free control over to shape. Oddly, I think the game's a little more balanced because enemies use it more: instead of activating and shooting thrice, sometimes the enemy pods drop in, do stuff like 'overwatch an exposed agent, shoot, and flank', which contributes to the player having a dilemma to solve, but isn't punished/shot immediately - they have to rescue or committ their over'd agent. TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jun 30, 2020 |
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Jun 30, 2020 08:00
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you already do get a bonus against overwatch fire if you are gold moving. it's just that that's never relevant because overwatch shots are relatively rare, it's better to cancel them than bait them out, and gold moving is almost always objectively inferior to just having a soldier do something interesting.
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Jun 30, 2020 08:05
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Bottom line in a game thats entirely about taking calculated risks, the player should not have the option of crossing their arms and saying 'nope, actually going to do nothing'.
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Jun 30, 2020 08:30
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Der Kyhe posted:Less turn limited missions would be one thing I'd like to see. And Bloodbowl is a MUCH better game than chess. Until you roll snakes at the top of your turn, of course. Then it's a dumb game for loving idiots. More seriously, the time limits are, if anything, even more thematic for CS than they were for Xcom2. You're taking down doors, slicing pies and shouting "CLEAR !" before racing to the next door before the aliens get a chance to... flush the alien drugs ? I guess ? It being a very kinetic and fumbly experience rather than a slow and methodical sweep-and-destroy is absolutely thematic. Turn limits reinforce that. Alchenar posted:Oh and gently caress infinite reinforcements. Even when its not hard its just extremely tedious to deal with. This OTOH I can get onboard with - at least in CS. I don't think it's necessarily a bad game mechanic (i.e. I loved it in Phantom Doctrine) but it makes precious little sense in a game where YOU'RE THE COPS. You're the one with the massive resources and bloated budget !
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Jun 30, 2020 11:12
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Kobal2 posted:This OTOH I can get onboard with - at least in CS. I don't think it's necessarily a bad game mechanic (i.e. I loved it in Phantom Doctrine) but it makes precious little sense in a game where YOU'RE THE COPS. You're the one with the massive resources and bloated budget ! Technically, you're Reclamation in CS. You're the new spec ops division that's meant to bail out the cops or do stuff they can't handle. It made sense for Advent to be able to throw wave after wave of aliens and soldiers at you, the plucky rebels in XCOM2, but in CS, the lack of resources and manpower is a little bit more contrived despite being an independent entity serving at the behest of the city and police.
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Jun 30, 2020 11:27
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The infinite reinforcement mechanics in CS basically existed to make me learn how to cheese turns.
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Jun 30, 2020 11:56
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The infinite reinforcements is one of my only complaints about CS. I get that it's supposed to pressure you into getting the hell out, but it takes me out of it a bit when some weird underground organization has like 30 heavily armoured dorks at the ready. It made sense in 2 since Advent controlled everything, but it should be at least a LITTLE difficult to get past the 31PD. At least I've always assumed 31PD had the place surrounded while Reclamation went in, got the sensitive poo poo out, and then they went in batons swinging to secure the area and arrest the dorks you knocked out/pull your dorks off the floor
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Jun 30, 2020 12:44
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Xelkelvos posted:Technically, you're Reclamation in CS. You're the new spec ops division that's meant to bail out the cops or do stuff they can't handle. It made sense for Advent to be able to throw wave after wave of aliens and soldiers at you, the plucky rebels in XCOM2, but in CS, the lack of resources and manpower is a little bit more contrived despite being an independent entity serving at the behest of the city and police. Yeah, I know you're experimental SuperSWAT, but the city police still *exists*, right ? And have guns of their own ? And they still master the "cordon off incident in progress" skill, yes ?  . As Danaru says, it's a bit jarring that some glorified street gangs, no matter how underhandedly funded or masterminded, could have entire platoons of openly, heavily armed numptys freely entering a hot crime scene.
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Jun 30, 2020 13:08
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Infinite reinforcements in itself isn't my problem (I also like Phoenix Doctrine, I think it's fine there), infinite reinforcements arriving every turn is an incredibly dickish way of the game telling me 'get out' but also forcing me to use the action points I need to 'get out' to clear a path, while risking a last unit getting left behind.
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Jun 30, 2020 13:12
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Alchenar posted:Infinite reinforcements in itself isn't my problem (I also like Phoenix Doctrine, I think it's fine there), infinite reinforcements arriving every turn is an incredibly dickish way of the game telling me 'get out' but also forcing me to use the action points I need to 'get out' to clear a path, while risking a last unit getting left behind. Yeah honestly even just reinforcements every TWO turns would be a huge improvement
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Jun 30, 2020 16:01
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Danaru posted:Yeah honestly even just reinforcements every TWO turns would be a huge improvement
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Jun 30, 2020 16:11
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Infinite Karma posted:It seemed more like reinforcements twice per turn when playing, which was just too much. The interleaved turns means that the first guys to make it out either A) leave their teammates high and dry against 4+ enemies or B) wait near the door in overwatch to cover their retreat, and are then themselves left high and dry against even more enemies. If they had bigger evac zones like in XCOM2, at least you could feasibly move to evac and stay on the board laying down cover until everyone gets there, but in CS you're physically blocking the green squares if you do that. What it really needs is a steady stream of the regular cops rolling in as friendly reinforcements whenever your guys start to evac and/or as the enemy reinforcements showing up, leading to a sense of continuity and helping the real department out, but also having backup yourself. Tldr, cut the reinforcement bs with allied reinforcements. I think that's sort of what the androids were supposed to be, but they fall real flat
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Jun 30, 2020 16:28
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If allied cops rolled in i'd 100% spend 80 turns playing "urban warfare" instead of getting out.
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Jun 30, 2020 22:04
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Danaru posted:Yeah honestly even just reinforcements every TWO turns would be a huge improvement This is basically what happens in XCOM 2, where you generally have reinforcements touch down, then a turn to handle them, then another reinforcement. The only exceptions are, I think, UFO defenses and Chosen attacks on the Avenger, where after you kill all the original pods and complete the objective, they drop reinforcements every turn.
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Jun 30, 2020 22:48
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dogstile posted:If allied cops rolled in i'd 100% spend 80 turns playing "urban warfare" instead of getting out. Same. Hell, it's the main reason I played the knockoff xcom game Xenonauts longer than I should have. Having a couple allied npcs in the map that could shoot back was both fun for my attempts to save them and it helped you find where the enemies were on the map from the firefights in the darkness.
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Jul 1, 2020 03:52
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I want to say, at least on lower difficulties, the reinforcements are partially contingent on the amount of enemies present such that reinforcements don't come in if there's already at least a given amount of enemies present. That said, when the enemies are at that number, it's deadly for anyone who's left. On missions that I assume have an evac requirement, having Torque around and saving the action boosters for exit helps a lot.
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Jul 1, 2020 04:40
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dogstile posted:If allied cops rolled in i'd 100% spend 80 turns playing "urban warfare" instead of getting out. I don't mean controllable cops, but allied npcs! Basically, give you some coer on the way out.
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Jul 1, 2020 10:39
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Kobal2 posted:This OTOH I can get onboard with - at least in CS. I don't think it's necessarily a bad game mechanic (i.e. I loved it in Phantom Doctrine) but it makes precious little sense in a game where YOU'RE THE COPS. You're the one with the massive resources and bloated budget ! Obviously you are actually "diversity hires" set up to fail by the higher ups. I mean you even have to do your own research, and fund your equipment from donations and bribe money I actually like the reinforcement mechanics, it makes everything super tense as you are trying to leave. Fangz fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Jul 1, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 11:52
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TheParadigm posted:I don't mean controllable cops, but allied npcs! Basically, give you some coer on the way out. Yeah, i knew what you mean, i'd still just constantly be shooting at dudes. "SIR YOU NEED TO LEAVE" "BUT ITS A COOL GUNFIGHT"
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Jul 1, 2020 12:11
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If the reinforcement mechanics were fine tuned so bad guys never burst through the same door I'm trying to evac out of and they didn't subsequently block my movement to escape I'd have no problem with them.
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Jul 1, 2020 12:36
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Okay, that's never happened to me.
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Jul 1, 2020 19:21
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I just find it funny that in this game where you are forced to restart if just one of your soldiers dies, you can win missions with infinite enemy reinforcements by having all of your soldiers put into bleed out mode.
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Jul 1, 2020 19:35
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So on the Workshop, there are several mods I am subscribed to that are not showing as subscribed in the sidebar of mods that require them. For example, the Cerberus faction mod that needs a bunch of Cerberus assets to work says i have the highlander but not the mods for the rest of them, but when i check the individual mods they all say "subscribed."
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Jul 2, 2020 00:12
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I've been playing the original Long War a bit lately, since I sorta roped myself into a drinking game that I'm increasingly worried will actually kill me, and I've got a few newbie questions since I never really played LW itself. -Is Canada's "Advanced Preparations" good, or does it wind up being a burden later by needing to rearrange buildings? They start out on the other side of the ant farm from the satellite uplink so it doesnt block the 3x3 block I saw was the optimal Uplink pattern -Is there a suggested rookie loadout? I've been going full armour, assault carbine, AP grenade, and medkit. It's been working out well but I figure I'd run it past experienced players. -what the gently caress happened to Outsiders, I remember them being a pain but god drat one of them panic spiraled my squad and then executed them one by one. That poo poo was terrifying. -Is steady aim worth using for rookies? I find my shot percentages have been better just over watching and baiting fools out, like 51% vs 42% steady aim-ing and firing next turn -A large UFO landed and when I went to check it out, a bunch of floaters blasted out and wiped the squad on like turn two. It was UFO-001 in like week one of the game. Not a question, just some purestrain 
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Jul 18, 2020 21:46
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Danaru posted:I've been playing the original Long War a bit lately, since I sorta roped myself into a drinking game that I'm increasingly worried will actually kill me, please stop playing drinking games with XCOMs.
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Jul 18, 2020 22:00
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aegof posted:please stop playing drinking games with XCOMs. Nice try, Ethereal, I will never log off
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Jul 18, 2020 22:16
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With the caveats that it's been quite a while since I played Long War and that I never ended up finishing a campaign, despite spending a lot of time playing the mod:Danaru posted:-Is there a suggested rookie loadout? I've been going full armour, assault carbine, AP grenade, and medkit. It's been working out well but I figure I'd run it past experienced players. You want to think more in terms of squads than individual soldiers when choosing loadouts. That's way too many medkits for a rookie-heavy squad, for instance: one or two total is more reasonable. One or two motion trackers can be a very good idea, given the importance of pod activation management. Flashbangs are quite strong: I typically ran 2-4 per squad. Smoke grenades are more niche, but it can be handy to have one. There's a case for mixing a small number of HE grenades in among your explosives to deal with times where enemies are at the very edge of grenade range or on maps that have lots of fragile cover. You can do weapons and armor many ways: I found having a single soldier with a high-mobility loadout to be valuable, as well as a few assault rifles in most squads for drones and the greater chance of one-shotting sectoids. You've probably already hit the the sectoid hp bump, however, and your experience may vary based on difficulty settings. As to your other questions, I believe that the outsiders were a response to how easily players could handle them in vanilla. My go-to approach in the early game was supression + flashbang on the turn that I triggered them while dashing into position for the point-blank kill next turn. Bringing a soldier that can use a shotgun your first several UFOs is highly advised. Steady aim is best used on rookies on the turn before you open a door; there's always something better for them do in the middle of a fight. I never played as Canada: you'll probably want to tear down one of the facilities eventually so you can set up 2x2 or 2x3 blocks with adjacency bonuses, but the power required and opportunity cost of not taking one of the really strong starts are likely bigger concerns.
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Jul 18, 2020 23:20
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Yeah I was probably overcorrecting hard, between the randomized loadouts being nearly useless and the guy with the medkit always getting 360 noscoped.  Sucks about Advanced Preparation but I sorta figured  Canada's bonuses are terrible.
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Jul 19, 2020 00:19
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Danaru posted:I've been playing the original Long War a bit lately, since I sorta roped myself into a drinking game that I'm increasingly worried will actually kill me,
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Jul 19, 2020 00:56
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That was XCOM 2 and it only almost killed me  also never play the PS4 port of XCOM 2 holy gently caress it's a coding disaster even compared to the original. I've never seen the PS4 crash screen so often.E: VVVV  God drat, yeah that sounds way worse, at least I could just use an autosave
Danaru fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jul 19, 2020 |
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Jul 19, 2020 01:01
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Danaru posted:That was XCOM 2 and it only almost killed me Having only played the PS4 and Switch ports, I can safely say that the Switch port has something hosed up in how things spawn. I'll take the occasional crash over a psionic transmitter mission with no nodes any day.
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Jul 19, 2020 01:05
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Just finished a run of x-com '94. gently caress psionics, especially etherials. Blaster bombs are annoying, too, but really, gently caress psionics.
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Jul 19, 2020 01:47
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I've been playing x-com2 WoTC co-op with a friend using parsec. https://parsecgaming.com/ We each take half of the characters, and move in turn. Going through the campaign with a friend is pretty enjoyable. Neither one of us had played WotC before, so all of that is new to us. The start of the game was tough, but things have gotten significantly easier. Now that we've killed all of the chosen and have fully promoted soldiers the majority of missions are kind of a cakewalk. Serial assassin with the chosen sniper rifle, or reaper spec blademaster ranger with chosen weapons can take out a lot of pods on their own. We've mostly been playing ranger/ranger/specialist/grenadier/reaper on hard missions. For average missions we can mostly take whatever we have. We picked up the other WotC classes kind of late, or didn't have the money to upgrade them at the start, so they have fallen by the wayside. Perhaps that was a mistake. We also haven't built a psi-chamber. How important is that now?
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Jul 19, 2020 02:37
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So I got this on summer sale a while ago. Started on Commander and been enjoying it a lot, and I think I've gotten a good handle on the mechanics now. Kinda tempted to restart into a Legend/Ironman run now, any notable QoL mods that are recommended or a must have to make the experience smoother? I already have the Extended Information, AoE Preview, F1, and Detailed Soldier List mods so far.
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Jul 25, 2020 07:56
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blizzardvizard posted:So I got this on summer sale a while ago. Started on Commander and been enjoying it a lot, and I think I've gotten a good handle on the mechanics now. Kinda tempted to restart into a Legend/Ironman run now, any notable QoL mods that are recommended or a must have to make the experience smoother? I already have the Extended Information, AoE Preview, F1, and Detailed Soldier List mods so far. Don't use the enforced Ironman mode. The game still has enough instability that you might have a crash ruin your save, so you're better off doing a self-imposed one.
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Jul 25, 2020 14:10
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