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LLSix posted:Need a launcher large enough to shoot it. There may be an upper limit on launcher size, I haven't checked. I mean, I'm just saying, if the launcher were a shipyard, we'd have a lot more freedom with missile size. I mean, yes, sure, we'd need to crew them, but that's what non-dorfed Naval Captains are for!
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Jul 19, 2020 17:54
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In a similar vein I have some questions from previous Aurora LPs despite never having played: How effective are swarms and swarms of microwave fighters for crippling enemy ships? and How effectively can you stealth a ship with a huge spinal beam weapon and not much else?
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Jul 19, 2020 19:16
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EclecticTastes posted:So, I have a few questions about Aurora that I'll be using to inform my future decisions related to both policy and possible ship designs: - I believe only NPR (AI) ships conduct ramming at the moment, possibly to ward off this line of thought. - As big as we can expand our military shipyard to. I've personally never built a ship larger than 120,000 tons, but don't let that stop you. I'm going to do at least a few more in game years before changing our economic/industrial focus, but I'll be sure to a give the option to massively expand our shipyards. -military ships can contain all components. Constellation style cruisers are easy enough to produce. They do suffer a bit from being good at many things, great at nothing. I won't stop you guys from making that style of ship if you want to. - Shuttles for loading freighters are a component, all other small craft we must design and produce. Anything under 500tons is considered a fighter and can be produced by industry, thus not occupying shipyard slipways. Radio Free Kobold posted:So what's stopping us from making a 1000 ton unmanned missile with a range measured in AUs? Looks like the largest missile possible is 250tons. That said even at our tech level I could easily design a not good, but still serviceable, misled that could could travel a couple AUs. It would be pretty ineffective against ships, but if we were targeting a NPR colony without much PD we could hit them without ever being seen. Also I'm ending the policy vote now. I'll tally it up and post results shortly. If you're working on ship designs get them in quick, I'll be starting the ship vote later tonight.
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Jul 19, 2020 19:47
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Im fairly surpised you have fighters statted out for this early of tech level. At that level its a roll of the dice (often weighted not in your favor) of NPR and REDACTED ships being faster or near parity with our fighters.
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Jul 19, 2020 20:05
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Telsa Cola posted:Im fairly surpised you have fighters statted out for this early of tech level. At that level its a roll of the dice (often weighted not in your favor) of NPR and REDACTED ships being faster or near parity with our fighters. Oh definitely, I just threw together a inter-system navy for the sake of having one, more as fluff. It was never meant to be perfect or even very competitive. Gnoman posted:Additionally, there's one more, if C# hasn't changed it. If you capture ships with troops and scrap them, or of ypu salvage a wreck with a salvage module, you can get alien ship components. You can consume these compoments to get a research boost if they use techs you dom't yet possess. Yes this is still in, it's basically the only way to catch up to an NPR that is a couple tech levels above you. Creating those wrecks sure can be dicey though.
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Jul 19, 2020 20:40
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Virtual Russian posted:- As big as we can expand our military shipyard to. I've personally never built a ship larger than 120,000 tons, but don't let that stop you. Believe me, I won't. Virtual Russian posted:-military ships can contain all components. Constellation style cruisers are easy enough to produce. They do suffer a bit from being good at many things, great at nothing. I won't stop you guys from making that style of ship if you want to. It's not about effectiveness, it's about being a symbol of how much rear end we kick and how many names we take. A giant, impractical spaceboat crammed with all our most cutting-edge tech (well, the stuff that makes sense to include together; you obviously don't want colony ship stuff on a vessel that's likely to see combat). Something we'd send on science/diplomatic missions during peacetime just to remind everyone else of the sort of thunder we can bring when angered. Virtual Russian posted:Looks like the largest missile possible is 250tons. That said even at our tech level I could easily design a not good, but still serviceable, misled that could could travel a couple AUs. It would be pretty ineffective against ships, but if we were targeting a NPR colony without much PD we could hit them without ever being seen. If the target truly can't determine it was us who fired it at that range, I propose we call this amazing idea The Anonymissile. Also we need to make it as soon as is feasible.
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Jul 19, 2020 20:47
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AI will always know who's weapons hurt them. Just like you can't lay a two-stage mine in an area two NPCs travel and have one blame the other.
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Jul 19, 2020 20:53
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Voting Results 1. What system should we first colonize outside Sol: a. Adrastapol 2. Should we begin a sustained warship building program, or divert resources elsewhere? b. The Navy can make do with a few new ships. 3. Europa Defense Initiative a. We must fortify Europa from future attacks, install Surface-to-Orbit weapons
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Jul 19, 2020 21:06
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Gnoman posted:AI will always know who's weapons hurt them. Just like you can't lay a two-stage mine in an area two NPCs travel and have one blame the other. Lame. Is it possible to knock, like, comets and stuff off-course and into enemy planets? How thoroughly can we Rube Goldberg the universe?
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Jul 19, 2020 21:11
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EclecticTastes posted:Lame. Is it possible to knock, like, comets and stuff off-course and into enemy planets? How thoroughly can we Rube Goldberg the universe? No. The next version will have support for "planet spiraling into the sun", but not as something the player can cause.
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Jul 19, 2020 21:13
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Virtual Russian posted:Voting Results Two out of three ain’t bad. Best colony here we come! Did anyone even submit a buildable warship design?
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Jul 19, 2020 21:18
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Gnoman posted:AI will always know who's weapons hurt them. Just like you can't lay a two-stage mine in an area two NPCs travel and have one blame the other. I've always rationalized this though the idea that aliens would be able to identify our unique weapon components in the wreckage.
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Jul 19, 2020 21:22
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I didn't get a vote in before you closed, but I'm curious how exactly 'policing' works, given one of your voting options was ground units for policing. Tell us a little about... well, whatever systems that feeds into in Aurora, if you please?
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Jul 19, 2020 21:32
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LLSix posted:Need a launcher large enough to shoot [a 1000ton super-missile]. There may be an upper limit on launcher size, I haven't checked. planet. use planet.
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Jul 19, 2020 21:40
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nweismuller posted:I didn't get a vote in before you closed, but I'm curious how exactly 'policing' works, given one of your voting options was ground units for policing. Tell us a little about... well, whatever systems that feeds into in Aurora, if you please? Sure. Your colonies can incur unrest, either through overcrowding in colonies requiring infrastructure, or through people being unhappy with the lack of naval assets in their system. Ground Forces don't solve those problems, but they can enforce stability and reduce unrest. Unrest impacts your colonies productive output, as well as having the possibility to cause rebellions.
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Jul 19, 2020 21:49
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Virtual Russian posted:- As big as we can expand our military shipyard to.
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Jul 19, 2020 21:58
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EclecticTastes posted:Believe me, I won't. A big limitation is that it's hard for any single ship to have adequate anti-missile defense... or maybe I just didn't build them big enough.
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Jul 19, 2020 22:15
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Re: Troop transport Just take whatever colony ship design we pick, swap the freezers for troop bays, call it done. Troopship yard can also build the matching freighter. I don't think there's a way to get a triad of designs that can all build out of one yard LLSix posted:Did anyone even submit a buildable warship design? Gnoman and I did. Here's another!  This is a single ship design (still needs a tanker to cross systems) that would occupy the big naval slipway and doesn't use any expensive new components or missiles (36RP for a fire control that matches our existing missiles, 75RP for a mini size 5 missile launcher) Fires 12 missiles salvos once per hour, carries 5 salvos. Armored to absorb about 25 of its own missiles vs itself, runs out of missiles before getting through armor a pair vs equal tonnage of Kobold+Wyvern, one is destroyed in the Kobold's post-reload pass, the other one survives and has has just enough missiles to scrape off the Wyvern's armor, but not to usually get through
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Jul 19, 2020 22:49
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Star Destroyer Doctrine all the way. We have a system/planet with enough resources to house a massive maintenance facility. We could do it.
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Jul 19, 2020 22:56
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These are better than mine. I don't remember why I gave them 12 month deployment times, I don't think it does anything for commercial ships except geosurvey ones. Can the combined CS+transport still build a freighter out of the same yard? The other reason I usually avoid odd-sized freighters is that they haul fractions of installations around and it leads to a mess of 2/5 of factories sitting places.
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Jul 19, 2020 23:08
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Foxfire_ posted:Gnoman and I did. Here's another! Technically ours aren't "buildable" because they require component research, and I think one of yours needs a capacity bump. That's a bit pedantic, though.
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Jul 19, 2020 23:14
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Foxfire_ posted:These are better than mine. I don't remember why I gave them 12 month deployment times, I don't think it does anything for commercial ships except geosurvey ones. Thank you. I don't think the CS with infrastructure cargo holds can build freighter's. It's 14 percent smaller than the more normal designs. Fortunately, the 0 colony cost option won so we don't want it anyways. The fractional installation problem is why it's flagged as a colony ship and not a cargo ship. The Sufficient is a very bad cargo hauler.
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Jul 19, 2020 23:24
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Virtual Russian posted:Star Destroyer Doctrine all the way. We have a system/planet with enough resources to house a massive maintenance facility. We could do it.
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Jul 19, 2020 23:33
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I beg to differ. 
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Jul 20, 2020 00:02
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Make it so. But only if we want a cultural or science victory.
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Jul 20, 2020 00:18
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I'm detecting two distinct factions forming.
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Jul 20, 2020 00:25
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Im going to suggest that, while fun, we try to cut down on impractical and extremely subpar ship designs. Or at least offer a "Are you really sure option". IMO The last few LPs had issues with this, which lead to players getting extremely frustrated and upset. Aurora is a slow paced game and going full blast with horrible ships is something that can take a long assed time to recover from, which isnt great when you pissed off some aliens. Weapons can be swapped out and redesigned fairly easily, entire hulls and such, not so much. Also OP how are you going to handle the crippling ground unit supply bug? Edit: You can definitely make star trek esque survey ships and have them work well, but thats a higher tech level thing. Having them as mainline combat ships is...difficult. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jul 20, 2020 |
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Jul 20, 2020 00:57
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Telsa Cola posted:Im going to suggest that, while fun, we try to cut down on impractical and extremely subpar ship designs. Or at least offer a "Are you really sure option". I'm happy spacemastering (spacemaster is essentially a mod tool to alter the game, think cheating) my way around ground combat supply stuff. I'll just generate whole new units if need be. Honestly I just hope we solve most of our ground invasion problems from orbit. Ground force stuff is so granular it hurts, and (IMO) it's not the star of the game. My one gripe about C# Aurora is that I have to pay a ton of attention to ground units. If you look at the DB, the stuff I have in there now is essentially simple placeholders. The units are not very complex because I didn't want to spend hours designing platoon level units that will be hopelessly obsolete inside 5 years. Also I'm happy to use "non-optimal" ship designs, but I'm going to make sure stuff that would never be reasonably commissioned doesn't gets into the game. I'd like to be in a position where if we pop a NPR that is two tech levels ahead we stand a chance, so our ships need to work. Ultimately I want to show off the game and have fun, and I think having less than perfect stuff that people in the thread designed is a big part of that. That said, equally in the spirit of fun, our stuff should have a reasonable expectation of working. I don't really want to wander in "Hitler's Wonder Weapons" territory, but I think recreating in spirit Star Destroyers or Constellation class CA's is totally fine. Certainly a cursory glance at military history reveals that all kinds of sub-optimal stuff gets made, and that combat testing often is the best corrective force upon those designs. A couple things other things I'm considering going forward. 1. I'm 100% certain I'm going to put research speed up to a bit below normal. I really enjoy playing at a slow research speed, but its just too slow for a LP. 2. I want lots of components for you guys to build with, I'm trying to figure a way out to just add in components for free without research (spacemastering), but still have some cost. My current line of thought is that we can "purchase" component designs from the civilian market, sidestepping researching them. To represent this ideally I would delete a portion of our stored wealth relative to the RP cost of the component. However, unless I'm mistaken, wealth is like the one thing you cannot alter in spacemaster mode. Instead, what i'd like to do is simply delete a portion of our financial centers, again relative to the RP cost of the component. Basically I'd justify this as the privatization of state run enterprises to generate the liquidity needed to purchase the designs. Doing this will give us the flexibility to build designs that require several new components without spending years researching first. Deleting FCs will have a real impact on our wealth generation, so that creates a real non-research cost. I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on this.
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Jul 20, 2020 02:10
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Virtual Russian posted:I'm happy spacemastering (spacemaster is essentially a mod tool to alter the game, think cheating) my way around ground combat supply stuff. I'll just generate whole new units if need be. Honestly I just hope we solve most of our ground invasion problems from orbit. Ground force stuff is so granular it hurts, and (IMO) it's not the star of the game. My one gripe about C# Aurora is that I have to pay a ton of attention to ground units. If you look at the DB, the stuff I have in there now is essentially simple placeholders. The units are not very complex because I didn't want to spend hours designing platoon level units that will be hopelessly obsolete inside 5 years. Sounds like you have these issues well thought out! Yeah my main concern was basically us getting severely rolled back system by system by an aggressive NPR or REDACTED because our ships just don't work. To be clear for people unfamiliar with the game, there is a variety ship design schools of thought that can be effective and I support out of the box thinking and differing schools of thought than my own (Hellooo flying armor bricks). Deailing with Ground Units from orbit is going to be tricky though with the new STO/entrenching system though unless you want to absolutely dump nukes on a planet. Setting officers as story mode characters might help with your accident problem! Also sign me up as an officer please, I have blabbed enough about this without getting my skin in the game! Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jul 20, 2020 |
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Jul 20, 2020 02:24
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We will probably need to codify some level of naval doctrine soon. Especially around how we will deal with missile defense. If we design each ship without an over strategy to deal with incoming missiles we can almost guarantee large naval loses in battle. I prefer overlapping PD across many ships, its effective, and its super easy to manage. Anti-Missile Missile systems can be more cost effective, but I just don't like managing them. Telsa Cola you are in! Story characters can never die, no fun there.
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Jul 20, 2020 03:22
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Harumph. Before we get too far into ship design I just want to point out that I do not believe in Buck Rogers boondoggles like 'energy weapons' and 'railguns'. Missiles are what won us the Finno-Korean hyperwar, and they're what'll win us the next war by Jove!
The Lone Badger fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Jul 20, 2020 |
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Jul 20, 2020 03:48
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Virtual Russian posted:We will probably need to codify some level of naval doctrine soon. Especially around how we will deal with missile defense. If we design each ship without an over strategy to deal with incoming missiles we can almost guarantee large naval loses in battle. I prefer overlapping PD across many ships, its effective, and its super easy to manage. Anti-Missile Missile systems can be more cost effective, but I just don't like managing them. My preference is dedicated anti-missile ships, with every ship having a token "last-ditch" defensive armament. A recent fad of mine is building AMMs with 12+ megakilometer range, and building ships that can actually pick up and engage missiles from that far out. It comes at a noticable fuel cost, but the reduction in chance to hit compared to maximizing speed or agility (while keeping the range to 1-3 million klicks) is marginal at most.
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Jul 20, 2020 03:51
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yeah AMM's can be pretty effective. However, the game already has so much to micromanage. But hey, thats also why it's a great game!
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Jul 20, 2020 04:02
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The Lone Badger posted:Harumph. Before we get too far into ship design I just want to point out that I do not believe in Buck Rogers boondoggles like 'energy weapons' and 'railguns'. Missiles are what won us the Finno-Korean hyperwar, and they're what'll win us the next war by Jove! I would agree with this, if my guy hadn't died in the lab. My new best friend is: Ships built around spinal lasers. Just strap an engine and enough armor to get it into firing range onto a spinal laser and call it a corvette, we're golden.
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Jul 20, 2020 05:11
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How about boarding parties? I'm not suggesting we do that necessarily, but can you make viable battle fleets based around getting your troops into enemy ships to take them over?
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Jul 20, 2020 05:17
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Zanzibar Ham posted:How about boarding parties? I'm not suggesting we do that necessarily, but can you make viable battle fleets based around getting your troops into enemy ships to take them over? I fully support any plan of action that ends in us jacking the enemy's poo poo and using it as our own. It's cost effective!
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Jul 20, 2020 05:59
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Zanzibar Ham posted:How about boarding parties? I'm not suggesting we do that necessarily, but can you make viable battle fleets based around getting your troops into enemy ships to take them over? Haha, that's the spirit! They don't like the taste of cold steel, your basic extee. Put the Marines on board and we'll send them running back to Aldebaran!
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Jul 20, 2020 07:45
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Check it out! Independently targeting particle beam phalanx. Vwap! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phased plasma pulse rifles, RPGs, we got sonic electronic ball breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks...
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Jul 20, 2020 11:26
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Telsa Cola posted:Im going to suggest that, while fun, we try to cut down on impractical and extremely subpar ship designs. Or at least offer a "Are you really sure option". My game had the opposite problem once I eventually let the players run wild on ship design. The resultant fleet was so outrageously min-maxed it was tricky to win fights without making them incredibly lopsided.
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Jul 20, 2020 11:50
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Maybe the thread should just kinda dictate general fleet doctrine, leaving Tesla Cola the task of putting together ship proposals that match the doctrine? Means more work from a GM perspective though.
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Jul 20, 2020 13:00
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