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LLSix posted:
This is certainly a thing, though I don't want to limit folks. At the end of the day these aren't absolutes, they will be guidelines. If we get the carriers one the fleet won't be all carriers.
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Jul 25, 2020 05:01
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If we built battleships/battlecruisers for short range combat, does that mean Plasma Carronades are in?
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Jul 25, 2020 05:04
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To be fair, I'm really only hoping for, like, one carrier design, so we can see fighter craft in action. Speaking of, do fighter craft get constructed at the same shipyard as the carriers, or do they need to be picked up separately? And can a single carrier hold multiple types of fighter craft? Even if we don't do a carrier now, it might be fun once we can make some ultra-huge ships to make a single enormous carrier that just unleashes an absolute cloud of fighters of like four or five different types, serving different roles.
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Jul 25, 2020 05:10
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Pirate Radar posted:If we built battleships/battlecruisers for short range combat, does that mean Plasma Carronades are in? Yes, but I'm dubious of their viability vs lasers or even railguns at anything but the lowest tech levels. If the case can be made for a carronade ship and it gets voted in I won't veto it. EclecticTastes posted:To be fair, I'm really only hoping for, like, one carrier design, so we can see fighter craft in action. Speaking of, do fighter craft get constructed at the same shipyard as the carriers, or do they need to be picked up separately? And can a single carrier hold multiple types of fighter craft? Even if we don't do a carrier now, it might be fun once we can make some ultra-huge ships to make a single enormous carrier that just unleashes an absolute cloud of fighters of like four or five different types, serving different roles. Even if we select one of the other two options we will have at least one carrier, don't worry. Fighters get made by industry, not shipyards, and then get loaded into the carrier as a move order. Yes, you can have multiple craft types in a carrier.
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Jul 25, 2020 05:13
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Virtual Russian posted:Even if we select one of the other two options we will have at least one carrier, don't worry. Fighters get made by industry, not shipyards, and then get loaded into the carrier as a move order. Yes, you can have multiple craft types in a carrier. Hell yeah as soon as we've got a big enough shipyard I'm gonna design the biggest drat carrier ever and a whole mess of different fighters serving different purposes. It'll probably be really expensive and inefficient but it's gonna be rad as hell.
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Jul 25, 2020 05:51
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EclecticTastes posted:Hell yeah as soon as we've got a big enough shipyard I'm gonna design the biggest drat carrier ever and a whole mess of different fighters serving different purposes. It'll probably be really expensive and inefficient but it's gonna be rad as hell. Please call it the Tiger's Claw.
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Jul 25, 2020 06:04
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I think I'll try to design a beam patrol ship. I'm leaning towards gauss since that will make it usefull in a fleet to provide missile defense too. Easy enough to switch out beam weapons if anyone has a request/suggestion. It's going to be a ridiculous fuel hog though. Getting good range and speed with Nuclear thermal is hard.
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Jul 25, 2020 06:37
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Is it possible to have a battleship with carrier components in them? Would be cool to do a star destroyer type vessel with some fighters to soak up damage and mess up ships in close range.
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Jul 25, 2020 06:43
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Yeah but it's not a good idea to make mixed role ships in aurora because of the horrible horrible ineffincies inherent in the designs and how armour/sensors work. This goes double at low tech.
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Jul 25, 2020 07:24
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Can we combine vote for carriers with vote for short range combat? I want the fighters to fight at closest possible ranges, but the carriers should stay out of trouble. 
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Jul 25, 2020 12:09
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Poil posted:1 A *hums Imperial March, again* 
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Jul 25, 2020 15:38
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Managed to make this reasonably effective ship, but then I noticed that the new engine design takes more RP than the next generation of engine tech. So I'm going to have to scrap it. Any ship design that uses a new engine is a non-starter. I'm going to have to start all over using only existing engines, It's not going to be a good design, I can tell you that right now. As a side note, what's with the "(Destroyed Outpost)" tag on Europa?
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Jul 25, 2020 16:05
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I believe that's the type of alien ruin, ruins appear with a size and a condition, you can find everything from fully intact megacities to ruined listening posts, the bigger and more intact a ruin is the more/better loot it can contain. The one on Europa is pretty low tier (I think destroyed is the lowest quality possible and outpost is either the lowest or second lowest size?) but any level of ruin can still be interesting.
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Jul 25, 2020 16:12
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We should try to get people out there whenever we can spare the research resources for xenoarchaeology equipment, then
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Jul 25, 2020 16:39
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Whelp, I'd have to triple the fuel storage to get the same range and even then the maintenance life is less. End design ended up over 20k tons. I'm going to have to make compromises somewhere. Main loss was fuel efficiency (new design uses twice as much fuel) and deployment time (still way in excess of it's cruising time). Had to make minor cuts elsewhere too. Final design is 33% larger than with a custom engine. Use this version of the design please.  Pros
Lessons Learned We really need the next level of engine tech if we want to make long-range high-endurance beam vessels Engine size is really helpful for fuel efficiency, I'm glad we're researching that even though it will make military ships very vulnerable to having their engines shot out. Surpisingly, engine boosting can save fuel on long range ships by reducing total tonnage. The break even point seems to be somewhere around 1x fuel usage include engine size fuel use discounts. We desperately need better armor tech. Duranium is too heavy. I'd like to request Composite armor as the next tech after Beta shields, and maybe give ProfFink some more labs. Although where you're going to find spare labs I don't know. Maybe steal them from Chen Shi Kang and NHO? Their multipliers are on the weak side right now. Here's the same ship armed with box launchers. It only gets one shot so I didn't bother giving it armor. It does manage to stuff in 55 box launchers. It doesn't need any research at all to build.  Honestly, I think the Hera is a more fun, flavorful design, but with it's on-par-for-current generation speed, it's going to be too slow to keep up with next generation ships which are right around the corner. Pirate Radar posted:We should try to get people out there whenever we can spare the research resources for xenoarchaeology equipment, then LLSix fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 16:49
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Yeah if ruins yield tech, it's always one level up from your current techs in that field. I guess the precursors were so crazy advanced there's always something you can learn from taking their poo poo apart, whether you're at tech level 1 or 15. Also there's a few techs that are exclusively from ruins, and they can hold various industrially or militarily useful goodies in addition to techs.
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Jul 25, 2020 17:02
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Saros posted:Yeah but it's not a good idea to make mixed role ships in aurora because of the horrible horrible ineffincies inherent in the designs and how armour/sensors work. This goes double at low tech.
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Jul 25, 2020 17:15
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This design is hard. I haven't been able to find anything that I would actually vote for over no ship. Retooling the big idle commercial yard for a tanker (~3 months) and relaxing constraints on this ship seems better. I'm also unclear on what missions this ship is actually supposed to do: - Sweep new systems for aliens? - Recon known hostile systems? - Garrison colonies that don't have on-site maintenance? - Guard a jump point? - Raid hostile commercial ships? They all want different kinds of ships (and we are missing key tech for some of them)
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Jul 25, 2020 19:29
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ABACC ++++SECRET++++SECRET++++SECRET++++ Union of Terra Army Command Major Kodos ++for internal circulation only++ Our future naval doctrine? It seems the navy-brass is fishing for ideas on how to waste their bloated budget, so here's my two cents (which represents about a quarter of the army budget, but I digress). Right now our fleet consists of a jumble of ships, panic-build to counter an enemy yet to be encountered. We have light, short-legged FACs, backed up by dedicated sensor-platforms. A number of short or medium-ranged multi-role ships and finally a single carrier. This is not a coherent fleet! Future fleet design must follow a strictly defined set of rules, founded in a theoretical framework, which must, by definition, include research and development, academic training, design and procurement of combatant and support-elements and finally deployment doctrines. Our main combat element should consist of the biggest, most heavily armed vessels possible, in order to engage the enemy at range and close to primary fighting range. This requires a ship which is simultaneous capable of offensive action, speed and survivability. Such ships should be backed up by escorts, geared towards missile defense and fast attack craft to pursue the retreating enemy and deliver the ultimate coup-de-grace. Any action must by necessity require the coordinated action of all possible weapons. We propose the following: A massed long-range salvo of missiles, followed by swiftly closing the range and firing constant salvos from large laser-weapons, which affords the best penetration and allows effective combat along a wide selection of ranges. Conclusion of a battle might be afforded by a charge of light craft, either to finish of enemy survivors or cover a retreat of the battle-line. Generally a spirit of aggressive, bold action should be cultivated in the fleet, with individual vessels being either capable of taking the inevitable punishment or being considered expendable. ++Note by Maj. Kodos+++ Let's see how these paper-pushers over at the navy react to this. Boy, I wish I could see the look on their faces when a grunt tells them to do their job. ++++SECRET++++SECRET++++SECRET++++ Nice, my character is both agressive and rude. The sheer possibilities for roleplay there is interesting.
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Jul 25, 2020 20:19
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B C B C A This is the Garden of Kadesh. For thirteen generations we have protected it from the unclean.
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Jul 25, 2020 22:11
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Not Alex posted:B What is this a reference to?
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Jul 25, 2020 23:49
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LLSix posted:What is this a reference to? Homeworld.
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Jul 25, 2020 23:57
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Saros posted:It's always fascinating seeing the ships people come up with, I have more of a 40%+ mass is engines or don't even bother sort of vibe. I know 25% is standard, but my own designs always end up around 33% as a minimum. I've had one too many games end when I pop an aggressive NPR with tech levels on me. Foxfire_ posted:This design is hard. I haven't been able to find anything that I would actually vote for over no ship. Retooling the big idle commercial yard for a tanker (~3 months) and relaxing constraints on this ship seems better. I did loosen up the requirements a bit, I was also trying to make a design to see what was possible and found it very demanding. The big priority for me is something that can get to, garrison, and operate around colonies without on-site maintenance. It should be able to engage isolated hostiles. No expectation of it to be a cutting edge combat vessel. Tanker service to these ships is basically unavoidable at this tech level I think, so if people toss in tankers we can informally pick one, or formally if there are enough designs. Virtual Russian fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 00:22
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Ship design question: do CIWS systems require a beam fire control, or do they get automatic last-minute shots at incoming missiles even without one?
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Jul 26, 2020 00:57
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Virtual Russian posted:Tanker service to these ships is basically unavoidable at this tech level I think, so if people toss in tankers we can informally pick one, or formally if there are enough designs. code:To be paired with code:
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Jul 26, 2020 01:03
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With tankers is easier! Kobold / Wyvern - Colonial Service Variant   Kobold swaps a missile tube for engineering spaces, Wyvern adds extra tonnage for them They both have organic maintenance life of 6 years, which can be extended somewhat by external supply before failure rates get too high. Both original designs and these ones get to their service lifetime solely by engineering spaces, not additional spares bays, so they can be pushed out further reasonably economically*. Deployment time is still 3 months (assuming a colony is available for shore leave). They build out of the existing shipyards with no retooling Camel Supply Ship  Simple tanker+supply ship to accompany task forces rotating in or out + make supply runs. It's a pretty small and crappy tanker, but we're about to get new engines anyway and this minimizes shipyard tooling time. The shipyard tooled for troopships can switch in ~70 days. Could also add a tractor beam for an extra 30 days of tooling time so it can tow back anything that ended up with a busted engine. (It would also be nice to get civilian magazines so a successor-type ship can cache reloads. That requires a spaceport or ordnance transfer station to also get freighter'd to a colony. We'll want the spaceport's eventually for productive bases since they speed up cargo transfer) * For people new to Aurora, the way maintenance works is that each ship has a base chance for something to break each time interval that depends on its size. When a failure happens, it consumes maintenance supply points (MSP) from the ship stores. As the ship's deployed lifetime goes up, the failure rate goes up. Adding more % engineering lowers the rate + adds some MSP capacity. You can also add maintenance bays that add MSP capacity without lowering the failure rate. The displayed lifetime is the average time for it to run out of MSP. If you externally refilll MSP with a supply ship, it's like having a zero-mass maintenance bay added to the design, though at some point the failure rate will overwhelm your willingness to shovel supplies into it. Pirate Radar posted:Ship design question: do CIWS systems require a beam fire control, or do they get automatic last-minute shots at incoming missiles even without one? CIWS are entirely self contained. They come with an active sensor and beam fire control (and bill you for it when designing the system). They are a little smaller than the non-integrated parts. The downside is that they will only fire to protect the ship they are mounted on and if you have lots of PD, each CIWS is paying mass for redundant electronics
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Jul 26, 2020 01:44
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I oppose the construction of any more warships at this time. We must seize this opportunity and settle any celestial body that stays in a stable orbit long enough.
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Jul 26, 2020 01:51
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The Lone Badger posted:I oppose the construction of any more warships at this time. We must seize this opportunity and settle any celestial body that stays in a stable orbit long enough. Colonies and warships mostly don't directly compete with each other (except for our attention). Colonies want stuff produced by factories (infrastructure, mines, more factories, ...) and ships are made from shipyards. You can use factories to speed up ship construction by prebuilding parts, but it's a micromangement nightmare. Minerals aren't limiting either one right now, plus ships use barely any minerals and want different ones usually anyway. For money, we still run a surplus with factories running 100% and occasional pauses in shipbuilding. They compete indirectly when we spend factories on building naval shipyards instead of colony stuff or allocate labs to military stuff instead of economic improvements.
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Jul 26, 2020 02:07
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B: Carriers B: Midrange C: Commerce Raiding C: Terraforming space stations C: Accatran Radio Free Kobold fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 05:03
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Virtual Russian posted:++++++++++++ Naval Doctrine Plan plus Colonial Direction ++++++++++++
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Jul 26, 2020 06:29
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Foxfire_ posted:Colonies and warships mostly don't directly compete with each other (except for our attention). Colonies want stuff produced by factories (infrastructure, mines, more factories, ...) and ships are made from shipyards. You can use factories to speed up ship construction by prebuilding parts, but it's a micromangement nightmare. Minerals aren't limiting either one right now, plus ships use barely any minerals and want different ones usually anyway. For money, we still run a surplus with factories running 100% and occasional pauses in shipbuilding. We could use the shipyards to build more colony ships though right?
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Jul 26, 2020 06:36
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The Lone Badger posted:We could use the shipyards to build more colony ships though right? No. Civilian shipyards and military shipyards are entirely separate. Military shipyards could theoretically build civilian designs if you spent the time to re-tool them, but they're 1/10th the size of civ yards so you can only make the tiniest freighters out of your superdreadnaught-sized slipway. The reverse is not true - civ yards can't make warships at all, so they're not competing for slots. Besides which, colonies demand military protection or else they start to go into revolt. So, at least a little bit of a standing navy serves the purpose of colonization more than saving a bit of minerals does Ceebees fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 06:47
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Ending voting a little early because my work schedule got moved around. ++++++++++++Results of Naval Doctrine Plan plus Colonial Direction ++++++++++++ 1. The core fighting element of our battle fleet should consist of? A. Battleships, due to interest we will ensure they have adequate carrier support. 2. What should our general tactical doctrine be? B. Medium range. 3. What should our general strategic doctrine be? B. Defensive Posture, due to the closeness of this one we will try build a fleet based around defense, but that can also aggressively contain an enemy. ----end of naval doctrine--- 4. What should our general approach to terraforming be? C. Terraforming space stations, this was a blow out, we will go hard on giant space stations. 5. We have a small fleet of unused Sufficients, what task should we set to them. A + C. Existing colonies and Accatran tied, so I will start a small effort in Accatran while sending some of the ships to help build up what we already have. ++++++++++++ End of Results ++++++++++++ The Lone Badger posted:
We do have a civilian shipyard (our 50,000 ton one) tooled for both Sufficient and Completely Ethical class colony ships. If enough people want me to produce a further run of ships I will. I'm happy to have you guys put forward suggestions outside what is contained within the votes. I will take it more as a suggestion, while what gets voted in I will always do to the best of my ability.
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Jul 26, 2020 15:57
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Ship Production Vote It's time to vote on a Patrol Cruiser. These ships will be our primary military presence in systems with colonies outside Sol. I'm going to let the vote run for about 24 hours. A. Our first option is Gnoman’s Hera Class Patrol Vessel. code:-It will require a number of new parts, but that was unavoidable in hitting all the original requirements. -it can also drag disabled vessels back for repairs, and has cryogenic berths for rescuing survivors in lifepods. - Have more than enough PPV, our colonies will feel protect by these vessels. B. Our second option is LLSix’s Bedsheet class Patrol Cruiser. -The speed this design achieves ensures it will be competitive for another generation of shipbuilding. -Short deployment time means it will need to stick close to our colonies, this is not a dealbreaker for the design. -possesses a small armament, though there is available a box-launcher armed variant.(picture below) - Have enough PPV to inspire the confidence of our colonies as the grow. - Made with nearly entirely off the shelf parts, just the gauss cannon needs researched, which will be nearly instant. C. Lastly, we have Foxfire_’s Kobold/Wyren Colonial Service Strike Group - Have a longer service life than the originals. - Very short deployment time, these will have to spend much of their patrol in orbit of a colony. - Can be immediately produced without any re-tooling of shipyards. - Will require tanker service, not a dealbreaker as we must build new tankers. -They have a somewhat low PPV, but are enough to assure our small settlements that they are protected. -Ready to be made without research +++++++++ On Tankers ++++++++ I’m partial to Foxfire_’s tanker design due to the simplicity of it, I imagine I’ll get a chance to produce them. I’m also going to produce a couple of Gnoman’s fuel hub stations before we begin calling for designs on massive terraformer stations. I’ll likely haul them into place with our existing and inefficient tug. Our military shipyard of size to make Gnoman’s tug will be in use, and our smaller one needs expansion first. By the time this would complete we will be so close to the next engine tech that the tug would be obsolete.
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Jul 26, 2020 19:36
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A While being expensive and slower than strictly optimal, this vessel represents the best choice given its intended purpose. It is currently capable of offensive as well as defensive action in defence of our colonies and can perform a wide range of support tasks. Furthermore it is capable of serving in the battleline according to our doctrine as defined previously.
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Jul 26, 2020 20:35
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A The other options sound like we'll be looking for a replacement a lot sooner. The Hera will require some research, but the end result is a vessel we can keep using for a long time.
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Jul 26, 2020 21:18
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Hera - 15.8 size-4 missile hits on average to deal internal damage - Point defense is the same as the Zeus, will hit about 5 of our missiles per salvo [69% base hit chance (nice) * 8/12 (penalty for target exceeding tracking speed) * 0.25 (penalty for mini turrets = 12% chance to hit per shot x 48 shots] - Offensively, 0.9 shots/1000 tons in salvo size, 10.5 missiles/1000 tons in magazines - Component research: 1900RP total, 500RP for EM sensor, 120RP for the launcher, 1280RP for the engine. The engine in particualr is concerning since it will be immediately obsolete (next engine tier is 1665RP away) - Failure rate is pretty high. It has a 5.7% chance for something to break every 5-day increment, but compensates for this by having very deep supplies of spare parts. Those spares still have to get made and transported though. Each ship uses 6% of Earth's MSP production, so we can't build too many without expanding maintenance production Bedsheet - 9.2 size-4 missile hits to deal internal damage [you can see how armor builds up comparing this to Hera, that one extra armor level does a lot of work] - Minimal point defense, will get 1 missile about 25% of the time [8% base * 4/12 (speed penalty) = 2.6% x 12 shots] - Fast, but needs to catch stuff to shoot it. Has to survive everything a missile ship throws at it before it can get close. Even with its speed, will still take hours to close, so missile ship will have time to empty its magazines - No component research needed  - No EM sensor. If something paints it with a targeting active, it won't notice until the thermal sensor picks up the missiles at point-blank range. - Even more supply hungry than Hera, 10.4% IFR, each ship uses 7% of Earth's MSP production - Very, very thirsty. Takes 5.8 million liters to fuel for its 30bKm range, Earth only produces 4.6m liters annually. It can reposition itself long distances, but we can't afford to do that very often Kobold/Wyvern - Kobold: Explodes if looked at funny - Wyvern: 47 size-4 missiles to penetrate armor - Offensive throw depends on Kobold:Wyvern ratio, at the design 8:1 ratio it's 2.2 shots/kTon in salvo & 20 missles/kTon in magazines. At a 4:1 ratio it drops to 1.1 & 19 - No component research needed - MSP: Each Wyvern is 1.6% of earth production, each Kobold is 0.05% (Kobold have no space for spares & get to lifetime by never breaking) - No retooling needed! (Don't want to recreate the other ships to get tooling time for them, guestimating at least a year based on how long it takes to retool to a Zeus) - Can't really do missions like: "Guard that automated mining base", "Watch that jump point", etc... They can guard colonies, investigate things that don't require lingering, and fight, they just can't park anywhere without a population long term. Voting for C. It is by far the best design at fighting. Equal tonnage will destroy the others while taking no damage because of range (the active on the Hera doesn't have the resolution to see a Kobold). It also has the least overhead costs in shipyard/component time. It is boring to just build more of the same thing, but we haven't had significant tech changes and "Guard Earth" & "Guard Free T-Shirt" are similar missions, so the same thing works. Foxfire_ fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 21:27
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Much as I'd like to vote for the Hera, as I do think its utility makes it a superior option for a ship that will, most likely, be the only one on-station... I have to vote for the Kobold
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Jul 26, 2020 21:56
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I came up with a short piece of fiction, I hope the tone will fit the Let's Play: Europa Nightmares Colonel Jenda Boros stood at the edge of the frozen cliff and gazed upon the alien landscape stretching towards the strangely curved horizon. Even in the low light provided by the distant sun, the ice was glittering in strange shades of pink and red. She tilted her head back as far as her spacesuits helmet allowed and admired the immense orb of Jupiter hanging above her. Swirls and eddies in psychedelic colors raced over the globe above like a scene from a dreamscape. Or from a nightmare. She added bitterly. She turned towards the team of Union Army engineers surveying the site for one of the huge Dagtekin Kinetics Orbital Intercept guns. The parts were still awaiting transport on Voyager Field, like most of the rest of her brigades heavy equipment. “Spade three-seven, how's it going?” She asked, her suits gear automatically opening a direct line to the leader of the survey-team. A voice fought through Jupiter's electromagnetic moans and howls. “Survey complete, Ma'am. We're ready to cut the foundations.” Answered the huge Nigerian. “Nice to hear, Spade. Another gun to defend this godforsaken hellhole from space-squids.” She quipped, like these guns would make a difference. She still remembered the sky over Budapest being set ablaze by flak and missiles in a futile attempt to stop incoming hyper-sonic cruise-missiles. Today their own missiles were even faster. In the end the defense will come down to the ancient trade of partisan warfare, run to the hills... “You know, Colonel why we're here.” The voice of the engineer shook her from her thoughts. “Duranium, Corundium, Tritanium, Gallicite.” The elements names still sounded like stuff from a cheap novel. And then there are the ruins. As a senior commander she was included in the very short list of people with need-to-know about the ruins. The mere memory of the briefing was enough to promise new nightmares for the arbitrarily defined period of rest in the gloomy three-and-a-half days of Europa. Doors which were ever so slightly out of proportion, cyclopean masonry cut with utterly inhumane precision. Each surface being inscribed with script which overlapped itself like the waves back at lake Balaton. But the most terrifying features were the inscribed reliefs. Radially symmetrical beings, like a hellish hybrid between a squid and a brittle starfish, limbs which were simultaneously used for locomotion, gripping and sight. Mouths which worked like razor-sharp irises. “We're done for today, Ma'am. I suggest heading back to the barracks and hit the racks.” The engineers voice was nearly drowned out by interference. “Care for a drink? I still have a demi-litre of slivovice, perfect for toasting the last gun being surveyed.” Or numbing the mind, lest it summons fresh nightmares.
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Jul 26, 2020 22:28
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That was great, I really appreciate the effort!
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Jul 27, 2020 03:58
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